Rifle Scopes Where are the scopes made
- Thread starter jlmomaha
- Start date
Re: Where are the scopes made
Whose scopes?
Whose scopes?
Re: Where are the scopes made
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jlmomaha</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I know LOW or Schott makes the glass but who is making the tubes and assembling them?
Thanks</div></div>
Are you running a high fever man??
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jlmomaha</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I know LOW or Schott makes the glass but who is making the tubes and assembling them?
Thanks</div></div>
Are you running a high fever man??
Re: Where are the scopes made
I don't think anyone makes their own lenses. Maybe Zeiss.
Most optics companies are either assemblers or they sub it out to firms (mostly in Asia) that build the scopes to their specifications. This isn't a bad thing just practicality.
I don't think anyone makes their own lenses. Maybe Zeiss.
Most optics companies are either assemblers or they sub it out to firms (mostly in Asia) that build the scopes to their specifications. This isn't a bad thing just practicality.
Re: Where are the scopes made
Is there a specific brand you are looking for information on?
Scopes are made all over the world: Germany, Austria, US, Czech Republic, Russia, Japan, Korea, Phillipines, China and probably some other places I forgot to mention.
Which company are you inquiring about?
ILya
Is there a specific brand you are looking for information on?
Scopes are made all over the world: Germany, Austria, US, Czech Republic, Russia, Japan, Korea, Phillipines, China and probably some other places I forgot to mention.
Which company are you inquiring about?
ILya
Re: Where are the scopes made
i want to contact a company that makes scopes I have been in contact with LOW but they only make the glass im on my own for the rest. I am thinking about getting into scopes, I have had my business license since 99, and no one makes exactly what I want. also with the digging I have been doing it seems "I maybe wrong and will continue to investigate" but a $700 scope only costs about $175-$250, it is crazy that these companies charge us this much.
i want to contact a company that makes scopes I have been in contact with LOW but they only make the glass im on my own for the rest. I am thinking about getting into scopes, I have had my business license since 99, and no one makes exactly what I want. also with the digging I have been doing it seems "I maybe wrong and will continue to investigate" but a $700 scope only costs about $175-$250, it is crazy that these companies charge us this much.
Re: Where are the scopes made
If you had been in contact with Light Optical Works, you would have learned that they do engineer and build scopes. But they are not going to sell you 1 scope. If you want to purchase in bulk they will be happy to put together one of their existing designs with the exterior appearance that you want, or engineer you one to your specifications if you would like. You can then pay to have them imported here, hire a marketing team, set up your warrantee center, shipping department, accounting, ect, and show all these companies here how it's done.
If you had been in contact with Light Optical Works, you would have learned that they do engineer and build scopes. But they are not going to sell you 1 scope. If you want to purchase in bulk they will be happy to put together one of their existing designs with the exterior appearance that you want, or engineer you one to your specifications if you would like. You can then pay to have them imported here, hire a marketing team, set up your warrantee center, shipping department, accounting, ect, and show all these companies here how it's done.
Re: Where are the scopes made
you are right it was edmunds not LOW still waiting on low, and why do you seem "upset" are you an employee or owner of a scope company? perhaps you missed the part about me having a business since 99, I currently do provide equipment "scopes, stocks, reloading equip, shooting gear, stands, hides, etc.."
you seem to justify the cost of places like march, NF, S&B, etc. is a %400+ mark up reasonable, if they have $500 into a product then charge $2000+ for that product is the CS worth that much?. Im not trying to be an a$$, its just ridiculous, look at Leupold, prices have kept going up and they have outsourced more and more, there paying less and charging more. so yes red, no disrespect intended but I am going to try and get a scope built, one for tac, one for BR, and hopefully I can get small batches of 250-500 of each, then I will have respected members of this forum "someone thats been here more than 2 months" such as ILya, then he can post on a couple other forums we belong to. "yes I have been stalking you.lol.jk" and Mele.
Back to the point before the side track, anyone know if Schott assmbs? I wouldnt use a chicom place, heard good about Edmund. If anyone has helpful information pertaining to what I am after would like to chime in, the advice would be helpful.
you are right it was edmunds not LOW still waiting on low, and why do you seem "upset" are you an employee or owner of a scope company? perhaps you missed the part about me having a business since 99, I currently do provide equipment "scopes, stocks, reloading equip, shooting gear, stands, hides, etc.."
you seem to justify the cost of places like march, NF, S&B, etc. is a %400+ mark up reasonable, if they have $500 into a product then charge $2000+ for that product is the CS worth that much?. Im not trying to be an a$$, its just ridiculous, look at Leupold, prices have kept going up and they have outsourced more and more, there paying less and charging more. so yes red, no disrespect intended but I am going to try and get a scope built, one for tac, one for BR, and hopefully I can get small batches of 250-500 of each, then I will have respected members of this forum "someone thats been here more than 2 months" such as ILya, then he can post on a couple other forums we belong to. "yes I have been stalking you.lol.jk" and Mele.
Back to the point before the side track, anyone know if Schott assmbs? I wouldnt use a chicom place, heard good about Edmund. If anyone has helpful information pertaining to what I am after would like to chime in, the advice would be helpful.
Re: Where are the scopes made
Just a heads up, Light Optical Works will want more than a 500 scope commitment for a run. We thought about going that route as well.
Just a heads up, Light Optical Works will want more than a 500 scope commitment for a run. We thought about going that route as well.
Re: Where are the scopes made
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jlmomaha</div><div class="ubbcode-body">you are right it was edmunds not LOW still waiting on low, and why do you seem "upset" are you an employee or owner of a scope company?
<span style="color: #000099">I see noting in my post that looks "upset"</span>
you seem to justify the cost of places like march, NF, S&B, etc. is a %400+ mark up reasonable, if they have $500 into a product then charge $2000+ for that product is the CS worth that much?.
<span style="color: #000099">
I am not justifying anything. All I did was correct you as you obviously were not talking about LOW. Did I type anything above that was inaccurate?
90% of the scopes on the market today are produced in a few factories in Japan, the Phillipines, and China. My point was if it could be done in a <span style="font-style: italic">sustainable</span> manner, someone would be selling them cheaper already. SWFA is doing what you are thinking about, and they are a bit cheaper than some other brands. I ran a franchise business as well as a contracting company, so I know a little about the business world myself.
LOW makes the best ones from the orient (re:NightForce). Don't catch a 'tude cuz I pointed out your error. I would love it if we had more options in American-built scopes, but that is not the case (Luepold imports the glass, but actually builds some scopes here, Burris used to, but maybe not anymore). Most of the other oriental scope companies all share the same engineers.
I actually was <span style="font-style: italic">trying</span> to be helpful, I guess since I registered here 2 months ago, I need to be treated like an asshat. Thanks for the warm welcome. I don't build scopes. I now fish for a living. And I shoot for fun. Have a nice day. </span>
</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jlmomaha</div><div class="ubbcode-body">you are right it was edmunds not LOW still waiting on low, and why do you seem "upset" are you an employee or owner of a scope company?
<span style="color: #000099">I see noting in my post that looks "upset"</span>
you seem to justify the cost of places like march, NF, S&B, etc. is a %400+ mark up reasonable, if they have $500 into a product then charge $2000+ for that product is the CS worth that much?.
<span style="color: #000099">
I am not justifying anything. All I did was correct you as you obviously were not talking about LOW. Did I type anything above that was inaccurate?
90% of the scopes on the market today are produced in a few factories in Japan, the Phillipines, and China. My point was if it could be done in a <span style="font-style: italic">sustainable</span> manner, someone would be selling them cheaper already. SWFA is doing what you are thinking about, and they are a bit cheaper than some other brands. I ran a franchise business as well as a contracting company, so I know a little about the business world myself.
LOW makes the best ones from the orient (re:NightForce). Don't catch a 'tude cuz I pointed out your error. I would love it if we had more options in American-built scopes, but that is not the case (Luepold imports the glass, but actually builds some scopes here, Burris used to, but maybe not anymore). Most of the other oriental scope companies all share the same engineers.
I actually was <span style="font-style: italic">trying</span> to be helpful, I guess since I registered here 2 months ago, I need to be treated like an asshat. Thanks for the warm welcome. I don't build scopes. I now fish for a living. And I shoot for fun. Have a nice day. </span>
</div></div>
Re: Where are the scopes made
Burris still does build and assemble some of their scopes in their Greeley CO facility. I was there a couple of weeks ago.
Burris still does build and assemble some of their scopes in their Greeley CO facility. I was there a couple of weeks ago.
Re: Where are the scopes made
I would just add that anyone who hasn't actually done manufacturing probably doesn't understand the margin structure involved. Running retail is NOT the same thing. Sure, perhaps you could *make* a scope for $500 that is the same quality as scopes costing $2000 on the market. But can you make, sell and service them for a price less than what other companies are doing? I think that was Redhooker's point.
A standard "rule of thumb" for cost structure is from about 4:1 to 5:1, i.e. the actual "street price" of your product is 4x or 5x what it costs to manufacture.
I have been involved with manufacturing for the past 15 years (not scopes or even guns/accessories) but for the most part, manufacturing to marketing any products requires a fairly similar margin structure. If you are manufacturing mass quantities of a commodity, then your margins are small and the only way you can survive is to shave costs and have a hyper-efficient distribution strategy.
If you are selling low quantity, high quality goods into niche markets, your margins are greater but the risk is great, too. As Redhooker pointed out - there is the distribution cost which includes marketing, sales & service. But there is also the engineering & manufacturing cost, which is not insubstantial. What happens if you can't get a particular material or component? What happens if your entire run doesn't meet spec? What happens if a competitor comes out with a nearly identical product at the same time, for 10% less price? What happens if... you get the idea.
Just as Rh pointed out - if it could be done, someone would be doing it. Probably the best way to approach it is to figure out some feature or performance angle that no one else has come up with yet, i.e. differentiate your products/services from all the others. Take a look at all the scopes in a given price range, say 1000 - 1500. Each has a combination of features not found in the other competing models.
I'm not trying to be discouraging but instead just trying to add an additional note of realism into the conversation.
I would just add that anyone who hasn't actually done manufacturing probably doesn't understand the margin structure involved. Running retail is NOT the same thing. Sure, perhaps you could *make* a scope for $500 that is the same quality as scopes costing $2000 on the market. But can you make, sell and service them for a price less than what other companies are doing? I think that was Redhooker's point.
A standard "rule of thumb" for cost structure is from about 4:1 to 5:1, i.e. the actual "street price" of your product is 4x or 5x what it costs to manufacture.
I have been involved with manufacturing for the past 15 years (not scopes or even guns/accessories) but for the most part, manufacturing to marketing any products requires a fairly similar margin structure. If you are manufacturing mass quantities of a commodity, then your margins are small and the only way you can survive is to shave costs and have a hyper-efficient distribution strategy.
If you are selling low quantity, high quality goods into niche markets, your margins are greater but the risk is great, too. As Redhooker pointed out - there is the distribution cost which includes marketing, sales & service. But there is also the engineering & manufacturing cost, which is not insubstantial. What happens if you can't get a particular material or component? What happens if your entire run doesn't meet spec? What happens if a competitor comes out with a nearly identical product at the same time, for 10% less price? What happens if... you get the idea.
Just as Rh pointed out - if it could be done, someone would be doing it. Probably the best way to approach it is to figure out some feature or performance angle that no one else has come up with yet, i.e. differentiate your products/services from all the others. Take a look at all the scopes in a given price range, say 1000 - 1500. Each has a combination of features not found in the other competing models.
I'm not trying to be discouraging but instead just trying to add an additional note of realism into the conversation.
Re: Where are the scopes made
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jlmomaha</div><div class="ubbcode-body">also with the digging I have been doing it seems "I maybe wrong and will continue to investigate" but a $700 scope only costs about $175-$250, it is crazy that these companies charge us this much. </div></div>
Keep investigating; there's more to it than meets the eye. The numbers you quoted aren't out of line on a $700 product if you want to be in business longer than your first production run.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jlmomaha</div><div class="ubbcode-body">also with the digging I have been doing it seems "I maybe wrong and will continue to investigate" but a $700 scope only costs about $175-$250, it is crazy that these companies charge us this much. </div></div>
Keep investigating; there's more to it than meets the eye. The numbers you quoted aren't out of line on a $700 product if you want to be in business longer than your first production run.
Re: Where are the scopes made
Im gonna keep trying to make this a reality, I want to provide people a top quality scope at a price the avg shooter can afford. What I want to create is as follows. 6x erect "3-18 or 4-24" mil/mil ill ret with a one mill opening in middle and ffp, ill control on occ bell as leup is. Zero stop 30mill elev 15mill wind resetable turrets with 15-20mil per rotation that count both directions and come up mark marks. I actually think millet would be nice if it was a little smaller and had better glass.lol
I have an extensive background in precision machining perhaps I may just purchase the glass and fab the rest. I dont need to make 1000 a yr.lol
Finally let me appologize ive been working 14hr days m-f and 8hr sat n sun, so sometimes I can be an a$$, and forget to keep humble. I was outta line a little and spoke as the people I dislike that rag on new forum members. Thanks for all the input including the criticisms, as im sure its to be helpful.
Im gonna keep trying to make this a reality, I want to provide people a top quality scope at a price the avg shooter can afford. What I want to create is as follows. 6x erect "3-18 or 4-24" mil/mil ill ret with a one mill opening in middle and ffp, ill control on occ bell as leup is. Zero stop 30mill elev 15mill wind resetable turrets with 15-20mil per rotation that count both directions and come up mark marks. I actually think millet would be nice if it was a little smaller and had better glass.lol
I have an extensive background in precision machining perhaps I may just purchase the glass and fab the rest. I dont need to make 1000 a yr.lol
Finally let me appologize ive been working 14hr days m-f and 8hr sat n sun, so sometimes I can be an a$$, and forget to keep humble. I was outta line a little and spoke as the people I dislike that rag on new forum members. Thanks for all the input including the criticisms, as im sure its to be helpful.
Re: Where are the scopes made
I tried to get into scope manufacturing too, it didn't work out for me. This was my prototype
I tried to get into scope manufacturing too, it didn't work out for me. This was my prototype
Re: Where are the scopes made
Is that a mil or moa reticle? FFP or SFP?
Is that a mil or moa reticle? FFP or SFP?
Re: Where are the scopes made
does it come with those rings? looks like a pretty big tube, dont know if badger or anybody are producing any in that particular size
does it come with those rings? looks like a pretty big tube, dont know if badger or anybody are producing any in that particular size
Re: Where are the scopes made
To the OP, go for it and best of luck to you. That is what some of the best companies started with, an idea,some research, and determination. Look at all the businesses that support and sell here on the hide.
To the OP, go for it and best of luck to you. That is what some of the best companies started with, an idea,some research, and determination. Look at all the businesses that support and sell here on the hide.
Re: Where are the scopes made
Around the same time as I began writing reviews I walked a little down this road as I was quite unsatisfied with the reticles being offered in 1-
x scopes. More and better options now exist than did at that point. This may have something or nothing to do with my meddling.
Along the way I met Ed Verdugo, a man who traveled much further on this path than myself. Eventually he had three different scopes produced by three different manufacturers as well as prototypes from at least three more makers. I am quite fond of his latest 1-6x produced by Light Optic. There is probably no other person more qualified to tell you just how to proceed and more importantly what you are up against than Ed. He can be reached at www.grscinc.com. You would be best advised to call him with the phone number on the site. He spends little time online and hates to type.
I wish you the best of luck. Scope design is a very expensive proposition requiring a remarkable degree of expertise as well as a toleration for a surprising amount of old fashioned trial and error.
Around the same time as I began writing reviews I walked a little down this road as I was quite unsatisfied with the reticles being offered in 1-
x scopes. More and better options now exist than did at that point. This may have something or nothing to do with my meddling. Along the way I met Ed Verdugo, a man who traveled much further on this path than myself. Eventually he had three different scopes produced by three different manufacturers as well as prototypes from at least three more makers. I am quite fond of his latest 1-6x produced by Light Optic. There is probably no other person more qualified to tell you just how to proceed and more importantly what you are up against than Ed. He can be reached at www.grscinc.com. You would be best advised to call him with the phone number on the site. He spends little time online and hates to type.
I wish you the best of luck. Scope design is a very expensive proposition requiring a remarkable degree of expertise as well as a toleration for a surprising amount of old fashioned trial and error.
Re: Where are the scopes made
Jim and cornholeo "beavis"lol. Thanks guys for the words of support and knowledge, im not trying to get rich I make enough to live comfortably, I really just want a scope I can offer to people that is affordable but is of excellent quality, if buy the grace of god "athiests ignore that please.lol" it comes to fruition I plan to only mark it up approximately 20% to cover returns and issues that may arise, if I can get what I want and land at the $500 mark I will probably charge $600. However I suffer no delusions and realize in the end my efforts may be for not.
Jim and cornholeo "beavis"lol. Thanks guys for the words of support and knowledge, im not trying to get rich I make enough to live comfortably, I really just want a scope I can offer to people that is affordable but is of excellent quality, if buy the grace of god "athiests ignore that please.lol" it comes to fruition I plan to only mark it up approximately 20% to cover returns and issues that may arise, if I can get what I want and land at the $500 mark I will probably charge $600. However I suffer no delusions and realize in the end my efforts may be for not.
Re: Where are the scopes made
So you are going to do the old cost plus pricing model.
I would seriously look at this page http://swfa.com/Riflescopes-C1443.aspx
and look at all those manufactures. That doesn't even cover all of them. Anyhow if you can get Nightforce tracking/reliability with Hensoldt quality glass in a $600 package I think you will have a pretty good following.
So you are going to do the old cost plus pricing model.
I would seriously look at this page http://swfa.com/Riflescopes-C1443.aspx
and look at all those manufactures. That doesn't even cover all of them. Anyhow if you can get Nightforce tracking/reliability with Hensoldt quality glass in a $600 package I think you will have a pretty good following.
Re: Where are the scopes made
we will see what happens, if I can make it happen ill have a few respected members on here and a few other forums review it. we will have to wait and see, but if I cant hit the $600 or under target price, with excellent optics and tracking then i wont persue it. ill post updates on here of any progress or if it falls through.
we will see what happens, if I can make it happen ill have a few respected members on here and a few other forums review it. we will have to wait and see, but if I cant hit the $600 or under target price, with excellent optics and tracking then i wont persue it. ill post updates on here of any progress or if it falls through.
Re: Where are the scopes made
If you are serious, you might want to talk to Optimax (www.optimaxsi.com). I have had small batches of lenses done by them many times. They may not meet the "china price" but they do whatever precision you order and can do prototypes in a week. They may be able to point you to assemblers and mechanism shops. When I ran short of manpower, they helped me have someone else do a lens cell design and assembly for an optical system of my design.
If you are serious, you might want to talk to Optimax (www.optimaxsi.com). I have had small batches of lenses done by them many times. They may not meet the "china price" but they do whatever precision you order and can do prototypes in a week. They may be able to point you to assemblers and mechanism shops. When I ran short of manpower, they helped me have someone else do a lens cell design and assembly for an optical system of my design.
Re: Where are the scopes made
I thought about that and came to the conclusion that it was too much of a pita but good luck
I thought about that and came to the conclusion that it was too much of a pita but good luck
Re: Where are the scopes made
I think you meant LOH Glass....
John III
I think you meant LOH Glass....
John III
