Scale holding zero.

[jcdean]

I own a Lyman 1500 scale. I set it up and turned it on yesterday morning. This evening I ran through the calibration and then zeroed it. I started loading rounds for a ladder test on three different 223's. Thirteen rounds per gun were loaded for a total of 39 rounds. It took me about an hour. As I finished seating the last round I sat the empty pan back over on the scale and saw that the scale was reading 0.9 grains. Who knows what are inside those cases now. At least I did catch it and if I didn't they would have all been under max which is where I stopped at anyway.

So, with my tale of woe finished I am finally asking how long should a scale hold its zero? I mean seriously, 9 tenths drift in an hour? That seems a bit extreme.

Conditions:
No wind or fan or AC blowing on the unit. Solid table that was not part of the loading bench and was not hit, pounded or moved. Pan and scale were kept clean of stray kernels with a soft brush every few rounds. Scale was on its power supply and not running on batteries and had been so in excess of 24 hours. Calibration checks prior to start were dead on. All charges were thrown low and trickled up to (I say this due to the fact that the Lyman instructions specifically state not to trickle up from an empty pan).

 

[jkonzal]

Re: Scale holding zero.

Been there, done that!!! Get a beam scale and your problem will be gone!!!

 

[arnie19]

Re: Scale holding zero.

Be sure to warm up the scale for about 15 to 30 minutes .Use a filtered power source . Rub the scale down with a dryer sheet to get rid of static . Air must be still .Arnie

 

[avidflyer]

Re: Scale holding zero.

My chargemaster does the same thing.....I never turn it off, been on for months / a year and tons of drift....

 

[boltgunluvr]

Re: Scale holding zero.

Electronic/Digital is way over-rated!!!!!

 

[armorpl8chikn]

Re: Scale holding zero.

Please buy at least 3 or four more digital scales before you go to a beam scale. There are good digital scales out there you just have to search hard for them. Digitals really are great sometimes you have to go through a few till you find a really good one. Buy an RCBS, I hear they NEVER have these problems and are always spot on. I wouldn't know, as I have used a beam scale for 30 years, except for a small fit of insanity, in which I bought 3 different digitals that ended up in the garbage.
{sarcasm off}

Either buy a $2000 lab scale and a marble table , mounted in a climate controlled room, or get a beam scale, that is the ONLY way you can guarantee accuracy of your weights.

 

[Gene Poole]

Re: Scale holding zero.

I've had zero issues with my Chargemaster. Sometimes I think I've got the only one that works. I calibrated once 6 or 8 months ago and every time I use it I check it with the both 50 gram weights and both together. It's always spot on (50.00 +0.00 -0.01 with either single weight and 100.00 +0.00 -0.01 with both) and I don't have a power conditioner or isolater; just plugged into the outlet on my bench and it's 4 feet below a cheap Lowes 2-tube florescent shop light. I've occasionally checked it against my beam and its spot on and I even ran 20 charges against an Ohaus 0.0001 gram lab scale at work and it was within its 0.01 gram tolerance.

Two things I've noticed about the Chargemaster: one is that the two units are mounted on rails and there are 4 foot pads on each unit. Make sure each pad contacts the bench and everything is solid and that the two halves are NOT rigidly connected to each other (there should be some wiggle between the two when the feet are adjusted to touch the bench). This will seem counter intuitive as the metal rails will be loose and wiggle around, but this is what you want. Let each unit rest solidly on the bench, but not rigidly connected to each other. Two, if powder grains get into the hole where the pan sits in the load cell, it will read erratically and any movement of your calibration weight (or anything else) on the pan will give you a different reading. Use some computer dust off spray to make sure that the load cell hole is free of any debris.

 

[MJY65]

Re: Scale holding zero.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gene Poole</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've had zero issues with my Chargemaster. Sometimes I think I've got the only one that works. </div></div>

I would suspect that many, perhaps most, digital scales out there are working fine. Their owners are just unlikely to come on and post about it.

I started with a beam nearly 30 years ago, went to one of the first RCBS (PACT) digitals about 15 years ago and now have a Chargemaster. They each have their limitations, but I'm no more likely to give up my digital scale than I am to throw away my cell phone and computer. No doubt, that land line and snail mail may be more reliable, but the compromise is worth it to me.

 

[Deadshot2]

Re: Scale holding zero.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MJY65</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gene Poole</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've had zero issues with my Chargemaster. Sometimes I think I've got the only one that works. </div></div>

I would suspect that many, perhaps most, digital scales out there are working fine. Their owners are just unlikely to come on and post about it.

I started with a beam nearly 30 years ago, went to one of the first RCBS (PACT) digitals about 15 years ago and now have a Chargemaster. They each have their limitations, but I'm no more likely to give up my digital scale than I am to throw away my cell phone and computer. No doubt, that land line and snail mail may be more reliable, but the compromise is worth it to me.

</div></div>

I was starting to get somewhat paranoid over the "drift" on my chargemaster scale. Then one day I drug out my old 5-0-5, gave it a good tune up and checked the accuracy with a series of check weights. The knife edges and agate are sharp/clean enough where the scale will register the change of two granules of varget almost instantly. That's granules, not grains.

I started checking loads from the chargemaster by dumping on the beam scale. Other than the standard +/- .1 gr or less variation that's within the accuracy standard of the scale I found it to be very consistent. I also noticed that the Chargemaster goes through a "zeroing" process every time you place the pan on the scale while in automatic mode. If one has turned off the automatic mode (or your dispenser doesn't have one) then you may have to manually tare (zero) with each load. Even when I cancel the load amount to be dispensed, and the scale shows it has "drifted", when resuming automatic load dispensing the auto zero seems to take out any error, at least the loads still weigh correctly on the beam scale.

Maybe I have the second Chargemaster that works just fine. If I want loads where +/- .1 gr are well within acceptable limits then it's the chargemaster. For loads I want within a granule or two of Varget, then I'll use the Beam Scale. Hopefully I can shoot up to the capability of my ammo and equipment then.

 

[1J04]

Re: Scale holding zero.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gene Poole</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've had zero issues with my Chargemaster. Sometimes I think I've got the only one that works. I calibrated once 6 or 8 months ago and every time I use it I check it with the both 50 gram weights and both together. It's always spot on (50.00 +0.00 -0.01 with either single weight and 100.00 +0.00 -0.01 with both) and I don't have a power conditioner or isolater; just plugged into the outlet on my bench and it's 4 feet below a cheap Lowes 2-tube florescent shop light. I've occasionally checked it against my beam and its spot on and I even ran 20 charges against an Ohaus 0.0001 gram lab scale at work and it was within its 0.01 gram tolerance.

Two things I've noticed about the Chargemaster: one is that the two units are mounted on rails and there are 4 foot pads on each unit. Make sure each pad contacts the bench and everything is solid and that the two halves are NOT rigidly connected to each other (there should be some wiggle between the two when the feet are adjusted to touch the bench). This will seem counter intuitive as the metal rails will be loose and wiggle around, but this is what you want. Let each unit rest solidly on the bench, but not rigidly connected to each other. Two, if powder grains get into the hole where the pan sits in the load cell, it will read erratically and any movement of your calibration weight (or anything else) on the pan will give you a different reading. Use some computer dust off spray to make sure that the load cell hole is free of any debris.</div></div>

+1 Agree 100%. My ChargeMaster is set up purposely this exact way. I warm her up for 15-20 mins, calibrate it, let it go through it's entire motion before removing pan. DO ensure you don't have any powder etc under the platen or in the hole under it. For shits and giggles I do re-zero and calibrate during long sessions. The straw in the trickle tube with the cuts in it resembling Jugheads hat from the Archies (Those of you that know that one are now considered "OLD" Ha) keeps my throws ALWAYS within .1

 

[RyeDaddy]

Re: Scale holding zero.

I have a Lyman 1500 that does the same thing. Drifts relatively easy. I start with a calibration, and I find if I hit the "zero" button every few rounds with an empty pan on it it will stay correct. Still, I've come to accept this as the norm for digital scales and weigh all powder charges on a Redding beam scale. The Lyman gets used to weigh brass and projectiles for sorting or curiosity, or to double check the beam scale before I start loading cartridges and that's it.

 

[majohnson2]

Re: Scale holding zero.

Most of the time I use the digital scale to weigh bullets and use my 33 year old 505 to weigh powder changes. The times I do use the digital scale I find myself rechecking the zero after every 5 rounds. Its easy that way because its every row on the reloading blocks.

Its easy with the digital scale to suddenly find yourself well off the intended charge.

 

[jcdean]

Re: Scale holding zero.

OP here.

Well, I pulled one round of each three round loading to check and see what was good and what was not. It seems that my Lyman stayed zeroed for 8 rounds and that is where it drifted off (or close to round 8)its first 0.1gr. After that it appears that the drift rate accelerated a bit til it was off an entire grain by the time I was done.

I then loaded the ladder test again checking against my 505 every third round and then every fifth round when I decided that it was holding zero. It did hold zero to at least every fifth round at which time I would re-zero.

Without being used the scale held zero overnight. I conclude that the scale was made for government use in that if left alone there is no change and the service only deteriorates as it is asked to actually perform the task for which it was designed.

 

[Fuzzball]

Re: Scale holding zero.

<span style="font-style: italic">"I conclude that the scale was made for government use in that if left alone there is no change and the service only deteriorates as it is asked to actually perform the task for which it was designed."</span>

(Off topic, but it's YOUR thread!

)

You have a valid conclusion. Government 'works' best when it doesn't; that's the only way they can't screw up. And unless we shift gears in Nov., those are the people who will be controlling everyone's access to medical treatment and they will decide who gets what treatment from which Pakistani doctor who will work for the peanuts pay the gobbermint will provide; aren't we lucky our dominant librulers love us so much!

<span style="font-style: italic">FYI, the 'rationing of Medicare treatment' has already begun. An active, healthy 78 year old friend of mine recently had cataract surgery on one eye. When he called to set up for the other eye the nice lady said she didn't think Medicare would pay for the second eye since he can see pretty well with the one they already fixed; I just love it when pollyticians 'help' us little people! (But you can be sure none of THEM (nor static state govie employees) will ever be on a list of limited treatments from the most costly medical people they can find.)</span>

 

[Gene Poole]

Re: Scale holding zero.

No need to drag this into a political rant.

 

[Fuzzball]

Re: Scale holding zero.

Political is in the eye of the reader, what we've mentioned are valid observations on gobermint.

 

[Gene Poole]

Re: Scale holding zero.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fuzzball</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Political is in the eye of the reader, what we've mentioned are valid observations on gobermint. </div></div>

That may be so; nonetheless, the forum rules you agreed to forbid ANY political posts period!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
6. Political discussion not directly related to firearms and shooting related issues are prohibited, as is any discussion on religion and religious matters. The posting of political or religious material will be deemed disruptive and maybe result in disciplinary action without notice or warning. Sniper's Hide has zero tolerance for political posts of any kind. Whether under guise of a political joke, or a blatant propaganda piece, no political posts means, no political posts, period.
</div></div>

 

[DHDeal]

Re: Scale holding zero.

Back on topic....

I use a Sartorius 123 and do see drift. I leave it on and every few weeks spray down the scale and surrounding area with anti-static spray. Not my idea as I read about it on 6mmBR (written by German Salazar I believe). This cuts my drift down alot.

When I bought the scale, the owner of the store told me about the strain gauge scales, but I could not afford/justify a magnetic reset? (whatever it is called). I wish I had the other $600 to spend, but I didn't.

I keep my scale in a draft resistant area (Ha!, no such place), balance it with the level, keep it warmed up, calibrate it before each loading session, spray the area down with the anti-static spray, and load very consistant ammo. All told it takes a minute or so to calibrate it, and I get started, as the other stuff is already done.

FWIW, the scale will read individual granules of H4895, and they are pretty small. I sold my Ohaus 10-10, and I am still able to sleep very well each night!

 

[Kevlars]

Re: Scale holding zero.

what anti static spray do you use?

 

[Fred_C_Dobbs]

Re: Scale holding zero.

I should think any electronic scale worth its salt and working up to scratch should hold zero at least a day or two.

I had an RCBS 750 that was drifting a tenth or two over the course of an hour or so of dropping powder, and a whole grain or more overnight, so I sent it back. RCBS replaced it under warranty and the new one has been perfect. So I could keep loading while I was waiting for the replacement, I bought an RCBS 5-0-5 beam scale.

At first I didn't trust the new 750 so to test it, I started out weighing each charge twice, first on the beam scale and then on the electronic. And they always matched. By the time I'd learned to trust the new electronic scale, I'd also got used to weighing each charge twice, so I still do. Which is why I know, three years on, the electronic scale doesn't drift appreciably. I re-zero because I have to maybe every two to three months and I haven't had to recalibrate (IIRC) in more than a year.

 

[avidflyer]

Re: Scale holding zero.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gene Poole</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've had zero issues with my Chargemaster. Sometimes I think I've got the only one that works. I calibrated once 6 or 8 months ago and every time I use it I check it with the both 50 gram weights and both together. It's always spot on (50.00 +0.00 -0.01 with either single weight and 100.00 +0.00 -0.01 with both) and I don't have a power conditioner or isolater; just plugged into the outlet on my bench and it's 4 feet below a cheap Lowes 2-tube florescent shop light. I've occasionally checked it against my beam and its spot on and I even ran 20 charges against an Ohaus 0.0001 gram lab scale at work and it was within its 0.01 gram tolerance.

Two things I've noticed about the Chargemaster: one is that the two units are mounted on rails and there are 4 foot pads on each unit. Make sure each pad contacts the bench and everything is solid and that the two halves are NOT rigidly connected to each other (there should be some wiggle between the two when the feet are adjusted to touch the bench). This will seem counter intuitive as the metal rails will be loose and wiggle around, but this is what you want. Let each unit rest solidly on the bench, but not rigidly connected to each other. Two, if powder grains get into the hole where the pan sits in the load cell, it will read erratically and any movement of your calibration weight (or anything else) on the pan will give you a different reading. Use some computer dust off spray to make sure that the load cell hole is free of any debris. </div></div>
HMMM and who did you get this magical device from?...I should of never sold that one...

 

[Fuzzball]

Re: Scale holding zero.

<span style="font-style: italic">"That may be so; nonetheless, the forum rules you agreed to forbid ANY political posts period!"</span>

I see no political posts, period. Sorry about whatever it is you see!

 

[psubond]

Re: Scale holding zero.

was toying with the idea of getting a digital but i think i'm going to stick with my 5 0 5 that came with my kit. has been good enough for my dad for longer than i've been alive (i'm 33) so it's good enough for me. pretty easy to use too esp with a trickler and a measure.


(however i did order some glass test tubes so i don't make a mess with powder or have to use an empty case to drop the powder into then dump it into the pan)

 

[DHDeal]

Re: Scale holding zero.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kevlars</div><div class="ubbcode-body">what anti static spray do you use? </div></div>

Static Guard from the Walmarts stoe.