208 AMAX in a Garand

[95LTZ]

I already have a good load with IMR 4895 & 175 SMK for my Garand. I have used the search function & not found exactly what I am looking for. I have had a McCann gas plug on the shelf for years & I am now thinking of trying it. I have a good supply of 208 AMAX's & several "flavors" of the slower burning powders. Has anybody already experimented with shooting heavy bullets in Garands? Any help or guidance is appreciated.
Semper Fi

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: 208 AMAX in a Garand

I haven't, and probably won't. To me, the Garand does well enough as it was originally intended.

But as long as you're willing to try it, I'm willing to listen.

Please keep us up to date with this.

Remember twists and bullet weights/lengths. My guess is that bullets haeavier/longer than 220gr might be problematic.

Best fortune in your quest.

Greg

 

[95LTZ]

Re: 208 AMAX in a Garand

Greg,
A lot of soul searching followed by hand wringing went into this decision. The smart move is to just "Shut up & shoot the old girl" however my life would've been a lot easier if I was just a little smarter.
Keep you up to date I will.
This is what happens when old people get too much time on their hands.
Semper Fi

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: 208 AMAX in a Garand

Hey, welcome to the..., aw poop, I forgot...!

Semper Fi youtoo.

Greg

 

[bohem]

Re: 208 AMAX in a Garand

This is a recipe for disaster on that rifle. The Op Rod can't take slow powders and bullets over 180gr, LOTS of guys have killed Garands doing exactly this.

The 175 SMK and IMR4064 is about the highest performance medicine that goes through a Garand without abusing it.

Part of the reason that there's a whole internet rumor about how the 308 can outperform the 30-06 is because the Garand's setup limits it to about 175's @ 2700fps and 150's at 2850, while modern 308's can do the same thing.

It's not a cartridge comparison but a platform comparison...

Back on topic though:

DON'T DO IT

 

[95LTZ]

Re: 208 AMAX in a Garand

You are correct about the op rod being in trouble with the designed gas system when slower powders are used. Bad things happen when the port pressure is too high. With the McCann gas plug (various size "vents") the port pressure will be able to lessened when using slower powders & heavier bullets.

 

[bohem]

Re: 208 AMAX in a Garand

That's a good point and I meant to address it: The bleed-off gas plugs are not always what they're cracked up to be. I've had 2 guys who used to shoot Garands in CMP tell me it was a disaster and they ended up hurting the rifles.

I'd like to see it work and I hope it does for you, but I would not be risking a nice old war horse to one of those gas blocks personally.

Didn't mean to alarm or "jump on your ass", my apologies if that's how it came across.

 

[95LTZ]

Re: 208 AMAX in a Garand

It came across just fine. More information & another view point which is what I am after. I will not attempt this unless I am pretty sure I can keep the port pressure in the healthy range for the op rod. If the gas plug is removed the action will not operate regardless of bullet weight or powder burn rate. My intention is to proceed with the vent orifice size so as to get the brass to fall about two feet from the rifle. I have warned other folks about shooting modern factory 30-06 ammo in their Garands. On some occasions I didn't know brass could be flung that far.
Cautiously proceeding

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: 208 AMAX in a Garand

If you remove the gas plug, there's nothing to keep the gas cylinder lock from turning...

 

[dieselten]

Re: 208 AMAX in a Garand

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you remove the gas plug, there's nothing to keep the gas cylinder lock from turning... </div></div>

You don't leave the plug out, you cut out the center.

 

[95LTZ]

Re: 208 AMAX in a Garand

Yes, I agree that one shouldn't leave the gas plug out. I was trying to illustrate that with no gas plug there wouldn't be a problem shooting slow powders & heavy bullets.

dieselten- The McCann gas plug has a standard gas plug drilled out & threaded along with a selection of allen's drilled with different size holes in them. So one can start with the largest hole and tune with the different size vent holes.

 

[dieselten]

Re: 208 AMAX in a Garand

I have a schuster for my m14. We did this back in the day to take the op rod and other movement out of the mix for better results in 600 yard slow fire. By product was that it allowed use of heavy bullets and slow powders

 

[95LTZ]

Re: 208 AMAX in a Garand

Back in the day, when I shot High Power with a Garand I didn't do any experimenting. I just thought that i would try some stuff now. Not trying to re-invent the wheel just see if I can improve my 1000 yard eight shot groups. The two best 8 shot groups for me are 21" & 21 5/8". I know others could dop much better but I am very happy with those. There are also some groups bigger than 36".

 

[donws2]

Re: 208 AMAX in a Garand

190 SMK's and 200 SMK's were used by many shooters back in the hay day of Service Rifle Match shooting. I've used a load given to me by Hook Boultin himself to shoot 190's. It was his favorite bullet on the 1000 yard KD range. He used IMR4064 for heavies and 3031 for lighter bullets in rapid fire. Bullet weight effects felt recoil on the shooter. Peak gas port pressure is what causes the damage to the rifle. You can destroy a Garand with 110 gr. varmint bullets if you used the wrong powder. 208 grain bullets loaded to safe pressure levels with ImR 4064 will do no more harm than a 175 with the same powder loaded to the same chamber pressure. The rifle does not care about bullet weight, the gas port pressure is critical on a Garand as the gas port is so close to the muzzle. A design flaw the M14 was supposed to correct and to some degree it did. It's all about controlling the correct level of gas port pressure to ensure the rifle functions correctly and not over stressing the op rod. I'll give you a buck if the port pressure on a grenade cartridge is not a hell of alot higher than a safe pressure load for a 208 bullet and ImR 4064. The Army had no problems letting Joe duffle bag launch a 5 lbs HE grenade off the end of a Garand so 208 grains down the tube ain't going to hurt the gun.

 

[95LTZ]

Re: 208 AMAX in a Garand

Wednesday I was able to do a little testing with the McCann adjustable gas plug. I started with a 175 SMK, 47.0 grs. IMR 4064 & Rem. 9 1/2 primers. The McCann kit has a choice of 5 different hole sizes for the allens that screw into the gas plug itself. I started with the largest & it didn't eject the fired piece of brass. I then went to the middle orifice size which worked like a charm. I used the rest of the ammo that I had with me to get a 600 yard zero. There wasn't time to test the 208 AMAX's maybe tomorrow.

 

[Tx_Flyboy]

Re: 208 AMAX in a Garand

95LTZ,

Keep us posted. I want to try superformance powder and 208AMAX & 178 HPBT in my garand...I have the schuster adjustable plug, and I'm desperate to have a non-neutered 30-06 rifle.

 

[Huckleberry75]

Re: 208 AMAX in a Garand

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 95LTZ</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wednesday I was able to do a little testing with the McCann adjustable gas plug. I started with a 175 SMK, 47.0 grs. IMR 4064 & Rem. 9 1/2 primers. The McCann kit has a choice of 5 different hole sizes for the allens that screw into the gas plug itself. I started with the largest & it didn't eject the fired piece of brass. I then went to the middle orifice size which worked like a charm. I used the rest of the ammo that I had with me to get a 600 yard zero. There wasn't time to test the 208 AMAX's maybe tomorrow. </div></div>

Interesting..but this is just what I need, another project in the mix.
Keep us posted and thanks for the info.

 

[Huckleberry75]

Re: 208 AMAX in a Garand

Any updates on the 208 testing????

 

[95LTZ]

Re: 208 AMAX in a Garand

I have not continued with the 208 testing as other projects have gone to the top of the list. Ammo is loaded & ready just waiting for it's turn to go to the range. Postponed not forgotten.

 

[Huckleberry75]

Re: 208 AMAX in a Garand

I know that drill for sure!!

 

[Sniper Uncle]

I have not continued with the 208 testing as other projects have gone to the top of the list. Ammo is loaded & ready just waiting for it's turn to go to the range. Postponed not forgotten.

SOOOOOOOO,,,,,What where the results? Did you ever get any farther on this project?