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Re: New information on LMT barrel bolts and torque!!!
Common "no torque" torque would be to tighten to resitance and use either 15degrees wrench arc torque, or 1/6 to 1/3 turn more past that point. This is whats used in similar applications on aircraft engines when no in/lb value is given. Also note these values are for a lubricated fastener either with wet primer or antisieze, occaisonally jet engine oil. If your putting them in dry, or new, torque, loosen and then retorque. and do the same thing after the first heat/cool cycle ( break torque and retorque) be it dry, or lubed. Except primered of course! or loc-tite..
Common "no torque" torque would be to tighten to resitance and use either 15degrees wrench arc torque, or 1/6 to 1/3 turn more past that point. This is whats used in similar applications on aircraft engines when no in/lb value is given. Also note these values are for a lubricated fastener either with wet primer or antisieze, occaisonally jet engine oil. If your putting them in dry, or new, torque, loosen and then retorque. and do the same thing after the first heat/cool cycle ( break torque and retorque) be it dry, or lubed. Except primered of course! or loc-tite..
Re: New information on LMT barrel bolts and torque!!!
i'm just telling you what the lady @ LMT told me... don't kill the messenger.... like i said before, I'm going to call LMT again tomorrow and verify with one of the guys in the shop just to make sure... it was really hard to hear the lady talk as I was at work.... i'll keep you updated.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 2ndPanzer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Common "no torque" torque would be to tighten to resitance and use either 15degrees wrench arc torque, or 1/6 to 1/3 turn more past that point. This is whats used in similar applications on aircraft engines when no in/lb value is given. Also note these values are for a lubricated fastener either with wet primer or antisieze, occaisonally jet engine oil. If your putting them in dry, or new, torque, loosen and then retorque. and do the same thing after the first heat/cool cycle ( break torque and retorque) be it dry, or lubed. Except primered of course! or loc-tite.. </div></div>
i'm just telling you what the lady @ LMT told me... don't kill the messenger.... like i said before, I'm going to call LMT again tomorrow and verify with one of the guys in the shop just to make sure... it was really hard to hear the lady talk as I was at work.... i'll keep you updated.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 2ndPanzer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Common "no torque" torque would be to tighten to resitance and use either 15degrees wrench arc torque, or 1/6 to 1/3 turn more past that point. This is whats used in similar applications on aircraft engines when no in/lb value is given. Also note these values are for a lubricated fastener either with wet primer or antisieze, occaisonally jet engine oil. If your putting them in dry, or new, torque, loosen and then retorque. and do the same thing after the first heat/cool cycle ( break torque and retorque) be it dry, or lubed. Except primered of course! or loc-tite.. </div></div>
Re: New information on LMT barrel bolts and torque!!!
Why aren't you using a torque wrench??? My mrp came with one, but i have a nicer one that I use. The spec is 140in/lbs
Why aren't you using a torque wrench??? My mrp came with one, but i have a nicer one that I use. The spec is 140in/lbs
Re: New information on LMT barrel bolts and torque!!!
i dont think you fully read my posting... i am using a torque wrench... i'm telling you what LMT told me to do.....
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kvwpwr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why aren't you using a torque wrench??? My mrp came with one, but i have a nicer one that I use. The spec is 140in/lbs </div></div>
i dont think you fully read my posting... i am using a torque wrench... i'm telling you what LMT told me to do.....
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kvwpwr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why aren't you using a torque wrench??? My mrp came with one, but i have a nicer one that I use. The spec is 140in/lbs </div></div>
Re: New information on LMT barrel bolts and torque!!!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kvwpwr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why aren't you using a torque wrench??? My mrp came with one, but i have a nicer one that I use. The spec is 140in/lbs </div></div>
The torque wrench that comes with the rifle can shift its torque value over time increasing the risk of a sheared bolt.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kvwpwr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why aren't you using a torque wrench??? My mrp came with one, but i have a nicer one that I use. The spec is 140in/lbs </div></div>
The torque wrench that comes with the rifle can shift its torque value over time increasing the risk of a sheared bolt.
Re: New information on LMT barrel bolts and torque!!!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: R.O.U.S.</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kvwpwr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why aren't you using a torque wrench??? My mrp came with one, but i have a nicer one that I use. The spec is 140in/lbs </div></div>
The torque wrench that comes with the rifle can shift its torque value over time increasing the risk of a sheared bolt.</div></div>
Thats why I said I use a nicer one. And I store it on the lowest possible setting.
elfster, in your post it sounds as if you're not using one thats all. Sucks they're braking. I don't remove my barrel very much so I haven't had any issues.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: R.O.U.S.</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kvwpwr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why aren't you using a torque wrench??? My mrp came with one, but i have a nicer one that I use. The spec is 140in/lbs </div></div>
The torque wrench that comes with the rifle can shift its torque value over time increasing the risk of a sheared bolt.</div></div>
Thats why I said I use a nicer one. And I store it on the lowest possible setting.
elfster, in your post it sounds as if you're not using one thats all. Sucks they're braking. I don't remove my barrel very much so I haven't had any issues.
Re: New information on LMT barrel bolts and torque!!!
i hear ya.... too bad they just don't supply a nice one from the get go... hell, for the amount you pay for the rifle you would think they could kick in a better torque wrench.. sheeshhh.
anyway, I'm going to give LMT a call tomorrow and get some more info from the guys in the shop. I'll keep you all informed of what they tell me.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kvwpwr</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: R.O.U.S.</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kvwpwr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why aren't you using a torque wrench??? My mrp came with one, but i have a nicer one that I use. The spec is 140in/lbs </div></div>
The torque wrench that comes with the rifle can shift its torque value over time increasing the risk of a sheared bolt.</div></div>
Thats why I said I use a nicer one. And I store it on the lowest possible setting.
elfster, in your post it sounds as if you're not using one thats all. Sucks they're braking. I don't remove my barrel very much so I haven't had any issues. </div></div>
i hear ya.... too bad they just don't supply a nice one from the get go... hell, for the amount you pay for the rifle you would think they could kick in a better torque wrench.. sheeshhh.
anyway, I'm going to give LMT a call tomorrow and get some more info from the guys in the shop. I'll keep you all informed of what they tell me.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kvwpwr</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: R.O.U.S.</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kvwpwr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why aren't you using a torque wrench??? My mrp came with one, but i have a nicer one that I use. The spec is 140in/lbs </div></div>
The torque wrench that comes with the rifle can shift its torque value over time increasing the risk of a sheared bolt.</div></div>
Thats why I said I use a nicer one. And I store it on the lowest possible setting.
elfster, in your post it sounds as if you're not using one thats all. Sucks they're braking. I don't remove my barrel very much so I haven't had any issues. </div></div>
Re: New information on LMT barrel bolts and torque!!!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: K_4c</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks for the update... I've been using my wheeler far wrench instead of that shady torque they supply. </div></div>
Are you still using the same setting on the Wheeler Fta wrench? How did it work out?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: K_4c</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks for the update... I've been using my wheeler far wrench instead of that shady torque they supply. </div></div>
Are you still using the same setting on the Wheeler Fta wrench? How did it work out?
Re: New information on LMT barrel bolts and torque!!!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: elfster1234</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i hear ya.... too bad they just don't supply a nice one from the get go... hell, for the amount you pay for the rifle you would think they could kick in a better torque wrench.. sheeshhh.</div></div>
I only want to buy a rifle. I already own a tourque wrench I bought for working on my motorcycles. Its a good Snap On tourque wrench, made in USA and it cost me close to $300.
If LMT was including such a wrench with their rifles I would have probably bought a KAC based on cost comparison. I'd be really happy if they crap canned the wrench they send with the rifle and send me another magazine instead.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: elfster1234</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i hear ya.... too bad they just don't supply a nice one from the get go... hell, for the amount you pay for the rifle you would think they could kick in a better torque wrench.. sheeshhh.</div></div>
I only want to buy a rifle. I already own a tourque wrench I bought for working on my motorcycles. Its a good Snap On tourque wrench, made in USA and it cost me close to $300.
If LMT was including such a wrench with their rifles I would have probably bought a KAC based on cost comparison. I'd be really happy if they crap canned the wrench they send with the rifle and send me another magazine instead.
Re: New information on LMT barrel bolts and torque!!!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Santo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: K_4c</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks for the update... I've been using my wheeler far wrench instead of that shady torque they supply. </div></div>
Are you still using the same setting on the Wheeler Fta wrench? How did it work out? </div></div>
My Lmt is relatively new to me but after reading on all the mishaps with broken bolts, I came to the conclusion they ether didn't build these rifles with adequate hardware or the torque required was exceedingly high. The fat wrench only goes up to 65 in lbs, however, it does adequately hold the barrel/mounting hardware with enough force to maintain a consistant fit.
I'm interested to see what he finds out through LMT... as this would confirm my suspicions.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Santo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: K_4c</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks for the update... I've been using my wheeler far wrench instead of that shady torque they supply. </div></div>
Are you still using the same setting on the Wheeler Fta wrench? How did it work out? </div></div>
My Lmt is relatively new to me but after reading on all the mishaps with broken bolts, I came to the conclusion they ether didn't build these rifles with adequate hardware or the torque required was exceedingly high. The fat wrench only goes up to 65 in lbs, however, it does adequately hold the barrel/mounting hardware with enough force to maintain a consistant fit.
I'm interested to see what he finds out through LMT... as this would confirm my suspicions.
Re: New information on LMT barrel bolts and torque!!!
So I ran into the same problem with their POS tourque wrench over tourquing the barrel bolt and breaking the bolt head. That being said, it's my understanding that depending on how much you tourgue the barrel bolt can/ will effect the accuracy. Perticularly, if your under the suggested 140 inch pounds.
How close do you think going till snug, and then another 1/2 to 3/4 turn will get you to 140 inch?
Either way let us know if a) this is true and b) effect on accuracy. Because I don't want to have to buy a new tourque wrench. Looking at picking up a NF F1 this week instead.
So I ran into the same problem with their POS tourque wrench over tourquing the barrel bolt and breaking the bolt head. That being said, it's my understanding that depending on how much you tourgue the barrel bolt can/ will effect the accuracy. Perticularly, if your under the suggested 140 inch pounds.
How close do you think going till snug, and then another 1/2 to 3/4 turn will get you to 140 inch?
Either way let us know if a) this is true and b) effect on accuracy. Because I don't want to have to buy a new tourque wrench. Looking at picking up a NF F1 this week instead.
Re: New information on LMT barrel bolts and torque!!!
Trident did a great test regarding tourque. His findings - 140 inch pounds is not critical. I think he went from 110 or so up to 140 and it didnt really change his zero.
I'm glad the bolts shear as easy as they do. Bolts are cheaper than uppers and the problem only seems to be an issue when reassembling with the supplied wrench.
Note to self though - get more bolts from LMT before December.
Trident did a great test regarding tourque. His findings - 140 inch pounds is not critical. I think he went from 110 or so up to 140 and it didnt really change his zero.
I'm glad the bolts shear as easy as they do. Bolts are cheaper than uppers and the problem only seems to be an issue when reassembling with the supplied wrench.
Note to self though - get more bolts from LMT before December.
Re: New information on LMT barrel bolts and torque!!!
Thanks pmclaine
After quite a few years running this platform, and after well over a hundred or two barrel swaps/installs I come to the conclusion that this is truly one extremely user friendly design, and it's better to under torque, then over torque.
Myself, my pal at LMT, and a few of my closest shooting pals that turned me on to the MRP/MWS design all use "feel" with T-handle torx wrenches, and have been doing so for years.
I sheered a bolt a few years ago, and that's it.
Thanks pmclaine
After quite a few years running this platform, and after well over a hundred or two barrel swaps/installs I come to the conclusion that this is truly one extremely user friendly design, and it's better to under torque, then over torque.
Myself, my pal at LMT, and a few of my closest shooting pals that turned me on to the MRP/MWS design all use "feel" with T-handle torx wrenches, and have been doing so for years.
I sheered a bolt a few years ago, and that's it.
Re: New information on LMT barrel bolts and torque!!!
Ok, so I called LMT today and got ahold of someone in the shop. Not sure what the lady the other day was smoking, but the guy I talked to said you <span style="color: #FF6666">STILL NEED TO USE A TORQUE WRENCH @ 140 inch lbs</span>.
So just keep on doing what you're doing I guess. Looking into a better torque wrench now I guess.
Ok, so I called LMT today and got ahold of someone in the shop. Not sure what the lady the other day was smoking, but the guy I talked to said you <span style="color: #FF6666">STILL NEED TO USE A TORQUE WRENCH @ 140 inch lbs</span>.
So just keep on doing what you're doing I guess. Looking into a better torque wrench now I guess.
Re: New information on LMT barrel bolts and torque!!!
The best option for a torque wrench would be a t-handle fixed value (factory set) wrench. I'm surprised LMT doesn't recommend a range for the torque value. Most in lbs wrenches have about a +-5 range.
The best option for a torque wrench would be a t-handle fixed value (factory set) wrench. I'm surprised LMT doesn't recommend a range for the torque value. Most in lbs wrenches have about a +-5 range.
Re: New information on LMT barrel bolts and torque!!!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: elfster1234</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ok, so I called LMT today and got ahold of someone in the shop. Not sure what the lady the other day was smoking, but the guy I talked to said you <span style="color: #FF6666">STILL NEED TO USE A TORQUE WRENCH @ 140lbs</span>.
So just keep on doing what you're doing I guess. Looking into a better torque wrench now I guess. </div></div>
I assume you mean 140 inch lbs? I just want to clarify that before somebody attempts to put a 1/2" drive torque wrench to these screws!!!!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: elfster1234</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ok, so I called LMT today and got ahold of someone in the shop. Not sure what the lady the other day was smoking, but the guy I talked to said you <span style="color: #FF6666">STILL NEED TO USE A TORQUE WRENCH @ 140lbs</span>.
So just keep on doing what you're doing I guess. Looking into a better torque wrench now I guess. </div></div>
I assume you mean 140 inch lbs? I just want to clarify that before somebody attempts to put a 1/2" drive torque wrench to these screws!!!!
Re: New information on LMT barrel bolts and torque!!!
aaahh yeah
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigBlue&Goldie</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: elfster1234</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ok, so I called LMT today and got ahold of someone in the shop. Not sure what the lady the other day was smoking, but the guy I talked to said you <span style="color: #FF6666">STILL NEED TO USE A TORQUE WRENCH @ 140lbs</span>.
So just keep on doing what you're doing I guess. Looking into a better torque wrench now I guess. </div></div>
I assume you mean 140 inch lbs? I just want to clarify that before somebody attempts to put a 1/2" drive torque wrench to these screws!!!! </div></div>
aaahh yeah
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigBlue&Goldie</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: elfster1234</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ok, so I called LMT today and got ahold of someone in the shop. Not sure what the lady the other day was smoking, but the guy I talked to said you <span style="color: #FF6666">STILL NEED TO USE A TORQUE WRENCH @ 140lbs</span>.
So just keep on doing what you're doing I guess. Looking into a better torque wrench now I guess. </div></div>
I assume you mean 140 inch lbs? I just want to clarify that before somebody attempts to put a 1/2" drive torque wrench to these screws!!!! </div></div>
Re: New information on LMT barrel bolts and torque!!!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 2ndPanzer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Common "no torque" torque would be to tighten to resitance and use either 15degrees wrench arc torque, or 1/6 to 1/3 turn more past that point. This is whats used in similar applications on aircraft engines when no in/lb value is given. Also note these values are for a lubricated fastener either with wet primer or antisieze, occaisonally jet engine oil. If your putting them in dry, or new, torque, loosen and then retorque. and do the same thing after the first heat/cool cycle ( break torque and retorque) be it dry, or lubed. Except primered of course! or loc-tite.. </div></div>
Won't you get incorrect torque readings when putting oil on the bolt?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 2ndPanzer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Common "no torque" torque would be to tighten to resitance and use either 15degrees wrench arc torque, or 1/6 to 1/3 turn more past that point. This is whats used in similar applications on aircraft engines when no in/lb value is given. Also note these values are for a lubricated fastener either with wet primer or antisieze, occaisonally jet engine oil. If your putting them in dry, or new, torque, loosen and then retorque. and do the same thing after the first heat/cool cycle ( break torque and retorque) be it dry, or lubed. Except primered of course! or loc-tite.. </div></div>
Won't you get incorrect torque readings when putting oil on the bolt?
Re: New information on LMT barrel bolts and torque!!!
Yes you get a slightly higher value, around 10-15%. The anti sieze is a must on some parts, as is the primer, and engine oil. This is just a reference to use for something that has no specified value, and is fairly repeatable and consistant. Not 1/6-1/3 turn or 15 deg past tight, but past initial sharp rise in resistance.
Wheel lugs use foot pounds, most everything on an aircraft is inch pounds. a 10-15% increase in value in a ftlb value is huge compared to small fasteners using inch lbs. If the spec calls for primer,AS or oil,with a specified value, its engineered into the tq spec. Make sense? If you put locktite on small screws for scope bases etc, your doing the same thing, but 10% of 15 in lbs is nothing. Working on aircraft is way different than working on cars. Not as much torque on helicopter parts as you would think, and everything has an absolute must do way about it. Breaking the torque and retorquing a new fastener, for example, will make a noticeable difference in how far something tightens down, where a previously used part will go just as far as it was when you took it off. Little things make a difference.
To OP, I wasn't killing the messenger, just trying to give you a known reference for your unknown value, don't take everything as a personal attack, it will make life way less stressful for you.
Yes you get a slightly higher value, around 10-15%. The anti sieze is a must on some parts, as is the primer, and engine oil. This is just a reference to use for something that has no specified value, and is fairly repeatable and consistant. Not 1/6-1/3 turn or 15 deg past tight, but past initial sharp rise in resistance.
Wheel lugs use foot pounds, most everything on an aircraft is inch pounds. a 10-15% increase in value in a ftlb value is huge compared to small fasteners using inch lbs. If the spec calls for primer,AS or oil,with a specified value, its engineered into the tq spec. Make sense? If you put locktite on small screws for scope bases etc, your doing the same thing, but 10% of 15 in lbs is nothing. Working on aircraft is way different than working on cars. Not as much torque on helicopter parts as you would think, and everything has an absolute must do way about it. Breaking the torque and retorquing a new fastener, for example, will make a noticeable difference in how far something tightens down, where a previously used part will go just as far as it was when you took it off. Little things make a difference.
To OP, I wasn't killing the messenger, just trying to give you a known reference for your unknown value, don't take everything as a personal attack, it will make life way less stressful for you.
