Interesting article. I've only killed squirrels with my Beretta 70.
http://www.tactical-life.com/online/tactical-weapons/israeli-mossad-22-lrs/
http://www.tactical-life.com/online/tactical-weapons/israeli-mossad-22-lrs/
- Thread starter CamW
- Start date
Re: What the Mossad can do with a 22LR
That article was in G&A or some other such publication years ago. Very interesting. Still not my first pick for shooting people. Or anything else over 20 lbs
That article was in G&A or some other such publication years ago. Very interesting. Still not my first pick for shooting people. Or anything else over 20 lbs
Re: What the Mossad can do with a 22LR
Those are two pretty narrow purposes.
I imagine assassins use the .22lr with a suppressor and choose it because it's the quietest.
I imagine that, along with the danger of over penetration putting holes in the exterior of an airplane is the reason it is used for that application.
Still there's ample evidence you can kill people with a .22lr.
Those are two pretty narrow purposes.
I imagine assassins use the .22lr with a suppressor and choose it because it's the quietest.
I imagine that, along with the danger of over penetration putting holes in the exterior of an airplane is the reason it is used for that application.
Still there's ample evidence you can kill people with a .22lr.
Re: What the Mossad can do with a 22LR
Both Russia and Israel use .22 rifles for urban "sniper" work(under 100yds) to prevent overpenetration. The Russians use an SBR with suppressor version of the Biathlon 7-2 rifle, and I'm pretty sure the Israelis use a 10/22. Very limited usage, but by all accounts extremely effective.
Both Russia and Israel use .22 rifles for urban "sniper" work(under 100yds) to prevent overpenetration. The Russians use an SBR with suppressor version of the Biathlon 7-2 rifle, and I'm pretty sure the Israelis use a 10/22. Very limited usage, but by all accounts extremely effective.
Re: What the Mossad can do with a 22LR
The author of the article fails to mention that the use of a .22LR pistol by the Mossad, and by sky marshalls, are for two completely different purposes with very different requirements between the two.
Besides, the model 70 was a long time ago. He would do better to mention the model 87 and 85 Cheetah.
The author of the article fails to mention that the use of a .22LR pistol by the Mossad, and by sky marshalls, are for two completely different purposes with very different requirements between the two.
Besides, the model 70 was a long time ago. He would do better to mention the model 87 and 85 Cheetah.
Re: What the Mossad can do with a 22LR
I think Mossad got the idea from Steve Martin.
"Richie loved to use 22s because the bullets are small and they don't come out the other end like a 45, see, a 45 will blow a barn door out the back of your head and there's a lot of dry cleaning involved, but a 22 will just rattle around like Pac-Man until you're dead."
I think Mossad got the idea from Steve Martin.
"Richie loved to use 22s because the bullets are small and they don't come out the other end like a 45, see, a 45 will blow a barn door out the back of your head and there's a lot of dry cleaning involved, but a 22 will just rattle around like Pac-Man until you're dead."
Re: What the Mossad can do with a 22LR
There was a great thread on the penetration of the .22LR a couple of years ago. Those little .22LR pills are much more effective than most people give them credit for.
I wouldn't personally have a .22LR as a personal defense sidearm...but it deserves more respect than most people give it.
There was a great thread on the penetration of the .22LR a couple of years ago. Those little .22LR pills are much more effective than most people give them credit for.
I wouldn't personally have a .22LR as a personal defense sidearm...but it deserves more respect than most people give it.
Re: What the Mossad can do with a 22LR
Having been on the receiving end of a CCI Stinger, I can vouch for it's effectiveness. Plenty of penetration in dense flesh, and lots of tissue damage in the wound channel. Nasty little things.
Having been on the receiving end of a CCI Stinger, I can vouch for it's effectiveness. Plenty of penetration in dense flesh, and lots of tissue damage in the wound channel. Nasty little things.
Re: What the Mossad can do with a 22LR
Marine recon used to use integrally suppressed ruger mkII's for VBSS missions. Or smoking dogs in 3rd world neighborhoods.
Marine recon used to use integrally suppressed ruger mkII's for VBSS missions. Or smoking dogs in 3rd world neighborhoods.
Re: What the Mossad can do with a 22LR
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kinsman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Having been on the receiving end of a CCI Stinger, I can vouch for it's effectiveness. Plenty of penetration in dense flesh, and lots of tissue damage in the wound channel. Nasty little things. </div></div>
Can we get the story?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kinsman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Having been on the receiving end of a CCI Stinger, I can vouch for it's effectiveness. Plenty of penetration in dense flesh, and lots of tissue damage in the wound channel. Nasty little things. </div></div>
Can we get the story?
Re: What the Mossad can do with a 22LR
Yeah I would love to hear this one as well!
Yeah I would love to hear this one as well!
Re: What the Mossad can do with a 22LR
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Blackhawk41</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Marine recon used to use integrally suppressed ruger mkII's for VBSS missions. Or smoking dogs in 3rd world neighborhoods.
</div></div>
Visit, board, search, and seizure or Vessel, board, search, and seizure, board, search, and seizure, I have been on many and i dont rember any use of MKIIs on any of them.
also have seen and been with many Marine recon in "3rd Worlds" none their ether.........
1997-2007 10 years cant say i rember any on a active deployment to a operation theater. Now ill be the first to say i have not seen it all.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Blackhawk41</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Marine recon used to use integrally suppressed ruger mkII's for VBSS missions. Or smoking dogs in 3rd world neighborhoods.
</div></div>
Visit, board, search, and seizure or Vessel, board, search, and seizure, board, search, and seizure, I have been on many and i dont rember any use of MKIIs on any of them.
also have seen and been with many Marine recon in "3rd Worlds" none their ether.........
1997-2007 10 years cant say i rember any on a active deployment to a operation theater. Now ill be the first to say i have not seen it all.
Re: What the Mossad can do with a 22LR
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Cowboy1978</div><div class="ubbcode-body">10 years cant say i rember any on a active deployment to a operation theater. Now ill be the first to say i have not seen it all. </div></div>I've never seen or heard about this use until now either. Same goes for the 'smoking dogs' use: Never seen it used for that; never heard about it being used for that.
Not to say that it was never tried, because it could just be a very well-kept government secret.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Cowboy1978</div><div class="ubbcode-body">10 years cant say i rember any on a active deployment to a operation theater. Now ill be the first to say i have not seen it all. </div></div>I've never seen or heard about this use until now either. Same goes for the 'smoking dogs' use: Never seen it used for that; never heard about it being used for that.
Not to say that it was never tried, because it could just be a very well-kept government secret.
Re: What the Mossad can do with a 22LR
We smoked dogs with suppressed M4's sometimes.
We smoked dogs with suppressed M4's sometimes.
Re: What the Mossad can do with a 22LR
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: victory</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We smoked dogs with suppressed M4's sometimes. </div></div>That I have seen and do believe.
But a .22LR pistol?
Have you seen those dogs: They ain't pets.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: victory</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We smoked dogs with suppressed M4's sometimes. </div></div>That I have seen and do believe.
But a .22LR pistol?
Have you seen those dogs: They ain't pets.
Re: What the Mossad can do with a 22LR
I don't say much, as I am still learning. But I have a lot of years in EMS, and I have seen about as many people killed by a .22 as any other single handgun caliber. I had a self-inflicted GSW once, guy smoked it, it spun around inside his head and the increased intracranial pressure bulged one eye out so it was looking at the other. He made it to the hospital (no one dies in an ambulance, only at the ER...)
(The only clear cut winner in my book has been a shotgun.)
I don't say much, as I am still learning. But I have a lot of years in EMS, and I have seen about as many people killed by a .22 as any other single handgun caliber. I had a self-inflicted GSW once, guy smoked it, it spun around inside his head and the increased intracranial pressure bulged one eye out so it was looking at the other. He made it to the hospital (no one dies in an ambulance, only at the ER...)
(The only clear cut winner in my book has been a shotgun.)
Re: What the Mossad can do with a 22LR
We had one of those 22lr MP5 knock offs in Afganistan in 2009 that we used for getting rid of pests on the base but we had to cut it up when a douche found out we had it. It was silenced too so lots of fun on hedgehogs dogs funny looking cats and rats that would eat the cats.
We had one of those 22lr MP5 knock offs in Afganistan in 2009 that we used for getting rid of pests on the base but we had to cut it up when a douche found out we had it. It was silenced too so lots of fun on hedgehogs dogs funny looking cats and rats that would eat the cats.
Re: What the Mossad can do with a 22LR
I shot an ass eating lab in the lungs with a suppressed 5.7 (watched the bullet impact right where it was supposed to). Got a call on the same aggressive dog the next day. Shot him 6x more before he died. That was the last time I though I could use the suppressed 5.7 to skate a report. Different caliber, I know, but with that added to previous experiences, learned my lesson(s).
1. People not on mind or mood altering substances die easier than dogs 1/3 their weight.
2. Anything over 20 lbs does not die quickly from low velocity .22 rounds.
3. People on mind or mood altering substances die much harder that a 70lb lab.
4. A .22 is a poor solution for anything that can hurt you and you have to recover, including people.
I was a FF/EMT before I was a cop. I've also seen people done in handily by a .22. What sticks out to me, though, is the guy I worked that got shot on a dope deal gone south. Once in the nose, slightly below eye level ( T BOX!!!), and once below the left eye, with a .22 pistol. Guy walked in to the gas station and called 911 himself and survived, probably with nothing more than perpetual sinus infections.
I shot an ass eating lab in the lungs with a suppressed 5.7 (watched the bullet impact right where it was supposed to). Got a call on the same aggressive dog the next day. Shot him 6x more before he died. That was the last time I though I could use the suppressed 5.7 to skate a report. Different caliber, I know, but with that added to previous experiences, learned my lesson(s).
1. People not on mind or mood altering substances die easier than dogs 1/3 their weight.
2. Anything over 20 lbs does not die quickly from low velocity .22 rounds.
3. People on mind or mood altering substances die much harder that a 70lb lab.
4. A .22 is a poor solution for anything that can hurt you and you have to recover, including people.
I was a FF/EMT before I was a cop. I've also seen people done in handily by a .22. What sticks out to me, though, is the guy I worked that got shot on a dope deal gone south. Once in the nose, slightly below eye level ( T BOX!!!), and once below the left eye, with a .22 pistol. Guy walked in to the gas station and called 911 himself and survived, probably with nothing more than perpetual sinus infections.
Re: What the Mossad can do with a 22LR
People have been shot with 9mm and 45 acp and manage to stick around.
People have been shot with 9mm and 45 acp and manage to stick around.
Re: What the Mossad can do with a 22LR
The will to live and or revenge keep a lot of people alive that missed a good chance to die. MM
The will to live and or revenge keep a lot of people alive that missed a good chance to die. MM
Re: What the Mossad can do with a 22LR
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Cory1022</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't say much, as I am still learning. But I have a lot of years in EMS, and I have seen about as many people killed by a .22 as any other single handgun caliber. I had a self-inflicted GSW once, guy smoked it, it spun around inside his head and the increased intracranial pressure bulged one eye out so it was looking at the other. He made it to the hospital (no one dies in an ambulance, only at the ER...)
(The only clear cut winner in my book has been a shotgun.) </div></div>
Check the FBI statistics for deaths and wounds caused by firearms. Finite the list by caliber. .22LR takes it (yes this included .223, 25-06, etc...but a small pool of identified calibers) and has for decades. Yes, they are the most prolific firearm, by chambering, in the CONUS but it lends itself to a discussion. This does include the .22 WinMag which is not a good round to receive as a human target given some of the modern bullet designs in that chambering today. I'm not interested in soaking up a .22WM in the knee (saw this one) or another part of the body for that matter.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Cory1022</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't say much, as I am still learning. But I have a lot of years in EMS, and I have seen about as many people killed by a .22 as any other single handgun caliber. I had a self-inflicted GSW once, guy smoked it, it spun around inside his head and the increased intracranial pressure bulged one eye out so it was looking at the other. He made it to the hospital (no one dies in an ambulance, only at the ER...)
(The only clear cut winner in my book has been a shotgun.) </div></div>
Check the FBI statistics for deaths and wounds caused by firearms. Finite the list by caliber. .22LR takes it (yes this included .223, 25-06, etc...but a small pool of identified calibers) and has for decades. Yes, they are the most prolific firearm, by chambering, in the CONUS but it lends itself to a discussion. This does include the .22 WinMag which is not a good round to receive as a human target given some of the modern bullet designs in that chambering today. I'm not interested in soaking up a .22WM in the knee (saw this one) or another part of the body for that matter.
Re: What the Mossad can do with a 22LR
Gabriel Giffords was shot in the head at point blank range with a 9mm. She is alive and doing rather well for such an injury. The bullet did a pass through, and i am not sure of location. Still an amazing story of survival.
Gabriel Giffords was shot in the head at point blank range with a 9mm. She is alive and doing rather well for such an injury. The bullet did a pass through, and i am not sure of location. Still an amazing story of survival.
Re: What the Mossad can do with a 22LR
I've spent some quality time in forensic pathology.
I can assure you that ballistics make little sense.
Things that should do incredible damage sometimes do little.
Things that you expect to be marginal can be positively catastrophic.
The 22 can be incredible. And also sometimes ineffective. Placement is critical. So is your luck.
I've spent some quality time in forensic pathology.
I can assure you that ballistics make little sense.
Things that should do incredible damage sometimes do little.
Things that you expect to be marginal can be positively catastrophic.
The 22 can be incredible. And also sometimes ineffective. Placement is critical. So is your luck.
Re: What the Mossad can do with a 22LR
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ohnomrbillk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've spent some quality time in forensic pathology.
I can assure you that ballistics make little sense.
Things that should do incredible damage sometimes do little.
Things that you expect to be marginal can be positively catastrophic.
The 22 can be incredible. And also sometimes ineffective. Placement is critical. So is your luck. </div></div>
Very well said
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ohnomrbillk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've spent some quality time in forensic pathology.
I can assure you that ballistics make little sense.
Things that should do incredible damage sometimes do little.
Things that you expect to be marginal can be positively catastrophic.
The 22 can be incredible. And also sometimes ineffective. Placement is critical. So is your luck. </div></div>
Very well said
Re: What the Mossad can do with a 22LR
Well that's one way to put it I guess.<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: slothlacrosse</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think Mossad got the idea from Steve Martin.
"Richie loved to use 22s because the bullets are small and they don't come out the other end like a 45, see, a 45 will blow a barn door out the back of your head and there's a lot of dry cleaning involved, but a 22 will just rattle around like Pac-Man until you're dead." </div></div>
Well that's one way to put it I guess.<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: slothlacrosse</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think Mossad got the idea from Steve Martin.
"Richie loved to use 22s because the bullets are small and they don't come out the other end like a 45, see, a 45 will blow a barn door out the back of your head and there's a lot of dry cleaning involved, but a 22 will just rattle around like Pac-Man until you're dead." </div></div>
Re: What the Mossad can do with a 22LR
I WANT ONE
anyone point me to one for sale?
I WANT ONE
Re: What the Mossad can do with a 22LR
Isn't the most scientific of tests but remember seeing this awhile back and being rather surprised at what it did.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAkOzr6cDx0
Isn't the most scientific of tests but remember seeing this awhile back and being rather surprised at what it did.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAkOzr6cDx0
Re: What the Mossad can do with a 22LR
I have had a few of the 70/71's and they are a great compact 22lr. Would love to have one like this...
I have had a few of the 70/71's and they are a great compact 22lr. Would love to have one like this...
Re: What the Mossad can do with a 22LR
anyone know where one is poss for sale? cash burnin a hole in my pocket
anyone know where one is poss for sale? cash burnin a hole in my pocket
Re: What the Mossad can do with a 22LR
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: donniedee</div><div class="ubbcode-body">anyone know where one is poss for sale? cash burnin a hole in my pocket </div></div>
My dealer gets one in from time to time. I'll have to check.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: donniedee</div><div class="ubbcode-body">anyone know where one is poss for sale? cash burnin a hole in my pocket </div></div>
My dealer gets one in from time to time. I'll have to check.
