• Watch Out for Scammers!

    We've now added a color code for all accounts. Orange accounts are new members, Blue are full members, and Green are Supporters. If you get a message about a sale from an orange account, make sure you pay attention before sending any money!

338 dies

G

gsxcorey

Private
Minuteman
Mar 18, 2011
91
5
45
I have the RCBS rockchucker and am trying to find dies that will let me determine how far I bump the shoulder back. With the RCBS full length die set Ican't set that measurement.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/316092/...38-lapua-magnum

Any idea on a good die set that will let me determine how far I bump the shoulder, neck size, etc? It appears dillon doesn't make dies for the 338?

Looking for suggestions as I'm having issues extracting the round and I think I have a tight chamber in my 338 lapua so I need to bump the shoulder back a bit more, but I need a good die set that will work with the RCBS and also let me set how far back the shoulder is bumped.

Any suggestions?
 
Re: 338 dies

Any FL die can be adjusted to bump shoulders as needed, unless the die lenght is defectively long and that's quite rare. The press used doesn't matter.
 
Re: 338 dies

Read the Hand loading for Long Range, Brass Prep at the top of this forum. Should help.
 
Re: 338 dies

I have read that.

What is weird is I asked RCBS about this and they said to send in 5 shot rounds and the die and if it needs it they will shave off a bit off the bottom of the die so it bumps the shoulder back farther. So I don't see how you can adjust the shoulder with this? Or why would they shave off the bottom of the die to push the shoulder back farther? I got it back from them and they said it doesn't need it, but the rounds are still sticking when fired. Even some store bought ammo.

Is there a type of die I can adjust the shoulder with? I posted a link to the rcbs full length die I have.

I was looking at the redding and it appears to have a measurement adjustment at the top of the die. Is that to measure how far you push the shoulder back?

right now my gun is being shipped to Savage for them to take a look at it along with 5 shot cases. They said they may need to polish out the chamber a hair.

However, I still want to find a die where I can adjust the shoulder bump. I honestly can't see how with this RCBS full length die? I can put the bushing I want in to size the neck to the size I want, but I don't see any way to adjust how far the shoulder is pushed back?
 
Re: 338 dies

All FL regular dies or Type S FL die will bump the shoulder.
But, you need a means for determing your head space....
Redding Instant Indicator
Hornady LNL Headspace Gage
Sincliar Bump Gage will all help you know what your HS is.
From there you can adjust your dies to bump the shoulder as see fit.

There is no micrometer adjustable FL die....trial and error.
 
Re: 338 dies

Gotcha. The thing is I don't see how I can bump it anymore with this full length die? I have the neck bushing in there as far as it will go. There is nothing else I can adjust on the die? I am bottoming it out on the shell holder too.

The rounds go into the gun fine, but stick upon firing. The only brass that doesn't stick is store bought lapua rounds. Even other store bought rounds stick big time when trying to extract. I know i'm not over pressuring things as my reloads are still on the min side of powder. I have to physically hit the bolt handle multiple times hard with my fist to get it to eject the rounds...To say i'm frustrated is an understatement. I've sent the die and fired rounds to rcbs and they said it all looks okay. I got it back and the same thing is happening. I now have the gun off the savage and they are saying they may need to polish the chamber a bit?

I also purchased go/no go gauges to make sure it was to saami spec and the chamber is.
 
Re: 338 dies

I am going to purchase the hornady LNL headspace gauge as you said and measure the factory lapua and see what it's shoulder is set at then compare it to my reloads. I'm assuming my die can't push the shoulder back that far though when i'm already bottoming out the shell holder on the die?
 
Re: 338 dies

I read your posts on the "sticking brass" issues you were having with your 110BA. The bottom line on these guns is that you need to trim the brass to 2.714" and NO LONGER. I just unboxed mine and even NIB Lapua brass is 2.716 to 2.718. I have to trim all 100 rounds of new Lapua .338LM brass to 2.714 in order for it to chamber correctly in the 110BA..the chamber is that tight. The other issue is the ejector pin had some grime/dirt/rust in the spring, and it was leaving "big" smear marks on any brass that was over 2.715"..I mean cutting a groove in the case head by the headstamp! I removed the ejector & spring (which I normally do during load development), and the brass measuring 2.716 to 2.718 chambered easily. There was a lot of crud in the hole under the spring for sure.

I use the new RCBS Gold FL .338 Lapua dies/w Redding.365 bushing, and have no problems resizing, or bumping shoulders back if needed.

You might check your trim length and that ejector to see what it's doing to the rear of your cases!
 
Re: 338 dies

Glad you read that. Yes, I have the RCBS gold die and the 365 rcbs bushing. I did trim all the brass as well to the min trim length.

I didn't check the ejector though. I'm sure Savage will check that since they have the gun. I'm going to call them and talk to them tomorrow.

I can chamber easily, it's just after I fire the round doesn't want to come out AT ALL. I now the chamber is tight, but I just don't know what else to do.

I have the hornady LNL headspace gauge on the way. I'm going to measure the factory lapua brass after I pull the bullet. Then measure one of the pieces i got back from rcbs after they sized it, then measure mine and see what all of the differences are from the shoulder down.

Can anyone think of any other reason a round wouldn't want to eject after being fired? My only thought is the shoulder is too long so after it expands a bit it's just too tight in there?
 
Re: 338 dies

As that thread said, the factory lapua is trimmed to 2.711 (I just measured one with having the bullet pulled) Since that is firing fine in my gun I could trim down to that I would assume and then hopefully my die can also bump the shoulder back to factory lapua 300gr spec as well.
 
Re: 338 dies

The only factory rounds that don't hang are Lapua? Doesn't sound like a die problem but I'm new to this.

L
 
Re: 338 dies

The only store bought ammo is lapua. If I reload them then they hang on extracting. Federal only a few got stuck in there. All Hornady factory ammo gets stuck and all my reloads get stuck.

The interesting thing I just found is the COAL is the shortest with the lapua so that has me wondering. I won't know until I get the gun back from savage. I'm hoping they inspect the chamber very very well and maybe polish it. I want it fixed, but the last thing I want is for them to make it so the chamber is lose and excepts ALL ammo but it's accuracy is utter crap. I'm hoping they don't brush it off and do something like that just to be done with the situation.

It is interesting that i'm finding other threads online with the exact same issue with the exact same gun though. I'm hoping tomorrow I can talk to one of the gunsmiths at savage or something. I only talked to customer service last time, but I'm hoping they will be cool and let me talk to someone who is actually going to be inspecting it.
 
Re: 338 dies

you have a rifle chamber problem not a die problem, if it was a sizing problem, closing the bolt would pretty difficult but since the cases stick in the chamber that is your problem right there.
 
Re: 338 dies

A couple of things.
What's the history of this brass? Has it been fired in another rifle?
Has it been neck sized repeatedly?
Brass develops a memory that no amount of sizing will erase which causes extraction issues.
This will be very subjective but what kind of pressures are you running? You mentioned smeared brass!!
Any rifle with a standard, 1 1/16" or less diameter barrel tenon will have extraction issues. You can't fool Mother Nature the tenon expands beyond the yield point of the brass when fired.
Another issue could be how much manual extraction you're getting from the bolt handle. That is when the handle approaches the top of it's arc and makes contact with the camming surface on the action. More travel is better as that's what breaks the case loose from the chamber. Too little and you have problems or too much clearence under the extractor will also contribute to this problem.
Also will a bullet easily slip back into a piece of fired brass? If it won't then two things could be happening. Case is too long and crimping the the neck when chambered or the necks are too thick/chamber neck diameter too small which can cause pressure issues also.

It could be any of these or a combination of several that are causing you problems.
 
Re: 338 dies

All of the reloads have been once fired lapua brass.

I doubt it's the neck being too thick as the store bought ammo did fine on the 1st firing. It's just when reloaded they won't work. This is with lapua brass.

With other store bought ammo I have issues extracting right off the bat with many rounds.

I don't know if a bullet will drop down the necks after being fired. I will check when I get the gun back and fire it. I haven't taken the barrel off either and looked at the chamber, but I surely plan too after reading online that several people with this savage gun have had chamber issues, grooves in the chamber, scratches, nicks, etc from the machine that tooled the chamber out.

I'll post up once I hear from Savage and let you guys know what they find. Hopefully they figure it out, but if not then I am back to the drawing board and will test what you guys are saying here. Thanks for the great help.
 
Re: 338 dies

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: attherange</div><div class="ubbcode-body">you have a rifle chamber problem not a die problem, if it was a sizing problem, closing the bolt would pretty difficult but since the cases stick in the chamber that is your problem right there. </div></div>

^+1 A head-space gauge might show you where the problem is.
 
Re: 338 dies

I have the hornady LNL headspace gauge on the way so I can measure the shoulders of the rounds from here on out. Tomorrow I'm going to call savage right away also. After searching the net i've found a lot of 110 owners with this issue. I love the gun, but i'm losing confidence in Savage quickly. I hope they can fix this.
 
Re: 338 dies

<span style="font-style: italic">"You can't fool Mother Nature, the (barrel) tenon expands beyond the yield point of the brass when fired."</span>

That's a classic bit of wisdom on a MUCH misunderstood factor concerning 'sticky' cases. Few people actually know what causes it; Tooley does. (Glad I resisted the urge to drown him when he was my SCUBA student!
wink.gif
)

Don't ever lose faith in anything until you know what's going on, it may well be that your loads are excessively hot.
 
Re: 338 dies

my loads are at the min of the powder spectrum. It's surely not that. I even went under the min to confirm it wasn't that. I have even loaded on the hotter side of things and inspected all cases from min to close to max and all cases appear fine in that regard. I know it's not from over pressure.

I'm not sure what you guys are talking about though when you mention the barrel tenon? Can you elaborate?
 
Re: 338 dies

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gsxcorey</div><div class="ubbcode-body">. After searching the net i've found a lot of 110 owners with this issue. </div></div>

Shit, I hope not. I have a 110 in .338 too.
 
Re: 338 dies

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gsxcorey</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I'm not sure what you guys are talking about though when you mention the barrel tenon? Can you elaborate? </div></div>

In laymen terms, what he's saying is that the brass is 'mashing' itself into the chamber walls which have give (expand) a little under the huge pressure, think: interference-fit or press-fit.
 
Re: 338 dies

Barrel tenon expansion in a nut shell.
Pressure maxs out internally, the case expands putting pressure on the barrel. The barrel and most of the time any surrounding metal (the action) expand also. The case will expand past it's yield point meaning when the pressure subsides it doesn't return to it's original size but the steel parts do. That's when you have extraction issues. This also happens with brass that is neck sized. The body work hardens from the slight amount of expansion and contraction that occurs when the steel parts expand which they do on every shot. The brass looses its elasticity, it develops a memory and has no spring back which gives you the needed clearence in the chamber to get it out. Obviously many rifles out there are working with a less than desireable tenon size but extraction problems can and will happen. Use dedicated FL sized brass in them every time as any little issue will be magnified. An 1 1/16"-16 TPI thread in my opinion is to small for the Lapua. That is why custom actions have 1 1/8" diameter threads.
 
Re: 338 dies

I only have been using the full length die since I've been having issues. I have a neck sizer die, but since I'm having issues i'm sticking to the FL die for now. I also am on the very low end of the powder recommendations so I don't see how i could be over pressuring anything.
 
Re: 338 dies

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gsxcorey</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I only have been using the full length die since I've been having issues. I have a neck sizer die, but since I'm having issues i'm sticking to the FL die for now. I also am on the very low end of the powder recommendations so I don't see how i could be over pressuring anything. </div></div>

Over-pressure in the context of this conversation is in relation to the action's design not so much the charge you're using. However, I have the same action (mines the 110FCP) and don't have the issues you're having so I still think you have a head-space issue or something else, though I do know that stuck cases are a common problem on a lot of .338s.
 
Re: 338 dies

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dave Tooley</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Also will a bullet easily slip back into a piece of fired brass? If it won't then two things could be happening. Case is too long and crimping the the neck when chambered or the necks are too thick/chamber neck diameter too small which can cause pressure issues also.
</div></div>

When you say bullet slip back into a piece of fired brass do you just mean that the neck seems almost like it has been resized alrady?

I only ask because I to just experienced extraction issues on some 5 times fired black hills brass. However, I am able to slide a bullet down the fired case easily until it gets to the point where the bearing surface is about around where the neck meets the shoulder and then it won't go any further. Cases were necked sized the first two times after factory rounds shot, bumped the shoulder on the third reload and then neck sized only the 4th reload.

This is a Sako TRG though and not a Savage.
 
Re: 338 dies

If the bullet doesn't freely slip back into the neck there are clearence issues and they can cause pressure problems.
Some sources are
1. clearence issue in the neck between a loaded round and
the chamber, not likely in a tactical rifle

2. case length too long and is crimping the neck on the bullet

3. this goes along with #2 A carbon ring forms between the
end of the brass and the end of the chamber causing the
same scenario as #2 This is probably what's going on. The
solution is clean more often and make a good effort to
twist the bore brush in the neck and throat area to manage
the carbon both in the neck area and the freebore.

I had several tight neck 338 rifles that I ended up having a none cutting burnishing tool made to scrap the neck area clean.
 
Re: 338 dies

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dave Tooley</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
3. this goes along with #2 A carbon ring forms between the
end of the brass and the end of the chamber causing the
same scenario as #2 This is probably what's going on. The
solution is clean more often and make a good effort to
twist the bore brush in the neck and throat area to manage
the carbon both in the neck area and the freebore.

I had several tight neck 338 rifles that I ended up having a none cutting burnishing tool made to scrap the neck area clean. </div></div>

TRG has only 200 rnds run through and aside from break in have only cleaned once. But with the Lucas bore guide used maybe I am not getting in enough between that area and with using RE22 (which heard is not all that clean burning) and trying the Retumbo with 250SMK's maybe I'm getting residue in that area. Thank you sir for the advice I'll definitely try it out.

Sorry OP for hijacking thought this might have been worth getting more conversation around your issue as well.
 
Re: 338 dies

I have read many times never to use a bore brush as it will destroy the barrel? I've only been using a bore snake and not a brush/rod.
 
Re: 338 dies

Oh no I've been doing it all wrong for 35 years. How did I and my customers set over 35 world records for accuracy all the while mindlessly scrubbing away with brass brush and multitude of solvents?

Oh what might have been!!
 
Re: 338 dies

P1030226.jpg


Not the best photo but you can see the carbon that has built up between the the end of the neck and where the cartridge case ended. Also the tramua at the beginning of the freebore section. This is a sectioned 308W Remington barrel from LEO.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

RTTY
Body+neck dies, help for setting please
Replies
8
Views
132
RTTY
RTTY
tinker
6BR Dies? rem vs norma vs ackley
Replies
4
Views
165
tinker
tinker
N
Cases not fire forming and carbon at case head
Replies
6
Views
200
NFshooter150
N
PotatoeTactical
To full length or neck size, much difference if any?
Replies
9
Views
354
Alabusa
Alabusa
N
Sizing die setup
Replies
12
Views
401
DairyDictator
DairyDictator
Top Bottom
Back