Rifle Scopes LR scope QUALITY pecking order??

[Eric B.]

What's your choice (#1 is the highest) of LR scopes based on QUALITY alone?

EX.
1. Schmidt & Bender P&M
2. Leupold M series
2. March tactical
2. U.S. Optics
3. Nightforce
3. Swarovski
4. Vortex Razor series
4. Bushnell HDMR Elite series
5. Burris Xtreme series
5. Nikon Monarch tactical series

And lets' play nice here.

 

[hk dave]

Re: LR scope QUALITY pecking order??

I'm a fan of Barska myself.

 

[KillShot]

Re: LR scope QUALITY pecking order??

This could get interesting.

 

[The_FNG]

Re: LR scope QUALITY pecking order??

No Premier? Your poll is already flawed.

 

[remau308]

Re: LR scope QUALITY pecking order??

Do you have experience with all these scopes? I have been behind or owned all the scopes on this list, and it has me wondering if you have as well...my list is based on more unbiased facts than opinion.

1) Schmidt
2) Premier (very close second)
3) Hensoldt
4) March
5) Steiner
6) Kahles
7) Nightforce
8) USO
9) Vortex Razor
10) Swarovski

The reason USO is so "low" on the list is all the problems I have personally seen with their scopes. The glass is about the same with Nightforces, but I've seen less Nightforces fail than USO's. Also, notice Leupold isn't even mentioned. The only reason Swarovski is on there is their superb, bright optics are better than Leupolds. I have had tracking problems with both, but more so with Leupold, so the glass is the only reason Swarovski beats Leupold onto this list, and if the scope is built like a brick shit-house, but doesn't track, it holds no value in my opinion.

All the scopes on this list are of course going to be swapped around based on different opinions, but Nikon, Burris, and Bushnell (at least as of right now) do not belong in a "best long range scopes" thread.

These are just my opinions, and I'm not trying to start any piss war here. I'm just stating only what I've observed so far.

 

[pinzmann]

Re: LR scope QUALITY pecking order??

I'm only going to list the ones I've had personal experience with:

Schmidt Bender
Hensoldt
Nightforce
IOR Valdada - new ones
USO
Leupold Mk4 - old ones
Vortex
Bushnell

 

[ShtrRdy]

Re: LR scope QUALITY pecking order??

This is interesting to me. There are a couple solid trends showing up here.

 

[hk dave]

Re: LR scope QUALITY pecking order??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: remau308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Do you have experience with all these scopes? I have been behind or owned all the scopes on this list, and it has me wondering if you have as well...my list is based on more unbiased facts than opinion.

1) Schmidt
2) Premier (very close second)
3) Hensoldt
4) March
5) Steiner
6) Kahles
7) Nightforce
8) USO
9) Vortex Razor
10) Swarovski

The reason USO is so "low" on the list is all the problems I have personally seen with their scopes. The glass is about the same with Nightforces, but I've seen less Nightforces fail than USO's. Also, notice Leupold isn't even mentioned. The only reason Swarovski is on there is their superb, bright optics are better than Leupolds. I have had tracking problems with both, but more so with Leupold, so the glass is the only reason Swarovski beats Leupold onto this list, and if the scope is built like a brick shit-house, but doesn't track, it holds no value in my opinion.

All the scopes on this list are of course going to be swapped around based on different opinions, but Nikon, Burris, and Bushnell (at least as of right now) do not belong in a "best long range scopes" thread.

These are just my opinions, and I'm not trying to start any piss war here. I'm just stating only what I've observed so far.
</div></div>

Out of curiosity... what puts the Premier in close second behind S&B?

 

[remau308]

Re: LR scope QUALITY pecking order??

After owning both, and been behind lots of models of both, there's very small things that just make Schmidt the benchmark for all other scopes to be measured against (in my opinion, and I'm sure many others as well).

I'll compare two models in particular that are of the closest comparison, the S&B 5-25 MTC and the Premier 5-25 MTC. I have owned both models, the Schmidt with a H2CMR reticle, and the Premier with a GenIIXR reticle(that is still on my competition rifle).

The Schmidt honestly just feels more like a refined $3,500 optic like it really should. This part is very perceptual, but if you have the two side by side, you would be able to see the small details (looks don't matter about performance though). The glass is very comparable, with the Schmidt being a little, and I mean little, bit brighter with less "haziness." Also, the clicks in the turret of the Schmidt feel overall much more crisp, and precise. The only way I know to describe this is imagine the detents in the clicks. The Schmidts detents feel very sharply machined, where as the Premier feels like the edges may be slightly more rounded, but still very precise.

The tracking on both scopes were perfect as expected. I actually like the Premiers turret zero change method on the caps to be very convenient. I was wary about them at first, but after lots of testing by just running the turrets up and down, and shooting, and changing them, they always came back to zero.

I like the illumination on the Schmidts more (however, I don't believe I will ever need illumination on my competition rifle).

I know, these differences are very small, but when you start getting into these really high end scopes, there are only small things that you aren't going to like versus another scope that is going to make you rank them to your preference. My top six scopes (especially the top three) are all very much of the same quality.

These are all very unbiased opinions, as I don't care who's name is on the scope as long as it actually works (and I have owned terrible scopes in the past to test including Nikons, Barskas, Tascos, Centerpoints etc..)

 

[hk dave]

Re: LR scope QUALITY pecking order??

Appreciate the response.

I've never owned a S&B so it gets me wondering sometimes if it really is leaps and bounds ahead of my current gear.

My first "higher end" scope was a Nightforce F1... and it really was leaps and bounds ahead of anything else I ever owned. I could really see a significant difference in not just glass, tracking and build quality... but it just "felt" more refined, like things were just made to tighter tolerances.

Then I picked up a Premier Heritage... and again I saw a difference from the Nightforce... not so much in the glass department (there was a difference... but not enough to matter in the distance I shoot), but more so in the turrets... I used to think Nightforce had the most amazing turrets until I turned the turrets of the Premier. The only thing I dislike about it is the MTC aspect... it's a real pain to go from the mil marks to .1

Anyhow I digress... when i hear S&B is the benchmark, I begin to wonder what I'm missing. Is it really that much better than everything else?

Guess I just need to handle one to understand... it's too bad the precision shooting community around where I live isn't all that big.

 

[remau308]

Re: LR scope QUALITY pecking order??

The Premier you handled would have been a good representation of what a Schmidt would be like. All the Schmidt have had better clarity and resolution, but a Schmidt is not leaps and bounds over a Premier. However, the Nightforce you currently have is a great scope. I really like the F1's, and in my opinion, you shouldn't feel like you have inferior equipment by any means. Every Nightforce I've used have been perfect with regards to tracking, and they are great scopes in general. You notice I even listed them above USO...and that's saying something.

 

[deadly0311]

Re: LR scope QUALITY pecking order??

1.Schmidt and Hensoldt are at the top of the heap
2.Leupold Mk8 series
3.Nightforce
4.USO
5.Trijicon
6.Swarovski
7.Leupold Mk4 series
8.Premier

Schmidt and Hensoldt are at the top of the heap for obvious reasons. Leupold came back into the game with their Mk8 series of scopes. Nightforce is damn near indestructible and not a player for those with a SB/Henny budget. Premier is at the bottom of the heap for me, for starters they used their first run of scopes as beta testers. I personally saw at least 4 5-25s(when they first came out) go tits up in a bad way. Locking lever turret is cool in theory but shit in actual use.

 

[den42]

Re: LR scope QUALITY pecking order??

Ive not owned as many different types of scopes as it looks like most guys have, but i have S&B current, and owned Priemer, so i can only tell you which i perfer, and that would be S&B, and that comes from the fact that my S&B's are just as clear at 50 feet to 1000 yards, my premier i could tell a difference at longer ranges. just my 2 cents tho