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GAP-10 Match Rifle Idea!!!! 6mm Creedmoor

Re: GAP-10 Match Rifle Idea!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ARPredatorHunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here is mine. I have already shot 14 coyotes with it in the past 3 weekends and plan to shoot some more with it over the next month and then it moves on to its long range precision role. This rifle is just outstanding in every single way.

GAP10_RS.jpg


GAP10_LS.jpg
</div></div>

"This rifle is just outstanding in every single way." AND so is the camo job.
 
Re: GAP-10 Match Rifle Idea!!!!

George, which magazine(s) do you recommend to function best/most reliably in your GAP-10 rifles?
 
Re: GAP-10 Match Rifle Idea!!!!

I have been shooting a 6.5Creed out of a 24" barrelled gas gun, and though I'm going away from it as the gas gun abuses the plastic A-Max tips, the factory Hornady 140gr sees the full wind hold at 1000yds of 1.2mils with a few more clicks of elevation at 9.6 for relatively standard conditions(calculator and real). I've run it hot enough to be in the mid 8's for elevation which buys a bit less windage, but have decided to step it back some to near factory loads to preserve the barrel, brass and not have to worry about temps.

I'm not trying to pick a fight, just wondering what you guys are really trying to get with this one over the original? Seems like it's going to be a bit harder in the wind @1k?

 
Re: GAP-10 Match Rifle Idea!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: luvtolean</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> the factory Hornady 140gr sees the full wind hold at 1000yds of 1.2mils with a few more clicks of elevation at 9.6 for relatively standard conditions(calculator and real).

</div></div>

So am I understanding you correctly that you're claiming the factory Hornady 140 Amax ammo only needs 1.2 mils of wind at 1K in a 10 mph FV?
 
Re: GAP-10 Match Rifle Idea!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: luvtolean</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> the factory Hornady 140gr sees the full wind hold at 1000yds of 1.2mils with a few more clicks of elevation at 9.6 for relatively standard conditions(calculator and real).

</div></div>

So am I understanding you correctly that you're claiming the factory Hornady 140 Amax ammo only needs 1.2 mils of wind at 1K in a 10 mph FV?

</div></div>

That is what I wrote. I sure wish you weren't so fast as it did strike me wrong as soon as I posted.
laugh.gif


....and, I guess when I was writing out my dope card for last month's match, somehow I got something more like 5MPH in JBM because it's about half value for std conditions. Guess I was lucky it wasn't windy.

OK, I'll go back into lurk mode.
sleep.gif
 
Re: GAP-10 Match Rifle Idea!!!!

110,000 pieces arrived this week. I finished packaging up boxes of 100,200,500,1000 today so we are ready to ship next week.

62 cents a piece for quantity's 100-999
58 cents a piece for quantity's 1000-10,000

anyone wanting more than 10,000 Call for pricing


This Brass is unbelievable in quality, its weight/finish/size is every bit as good as brass costing 4 times more. It is factory annealed as well.

also have dies in stock

402410510.jpg


402410505.jpg


402410506.jpg


402410509.jpg


402410507.jpg


Call Dustin or Supa Kenny to order (816) 221-1844
 
Re: GAP-10 Match Rifle Idea!!!!

<span style="font-size: 14pt"><span style="font-weight: bold">The wait is over, 6mm Creedmoor is now available in properly headstamped brass.

We are loading 3 different Projectiles.

<span style="color: #FF0000">105gr Hornady BTHP
105gr Berger Hybrid
115gr DTAC</span>

CHECK OUT 6 CREEDMOOR ON OUR WEBSITE NOW!!

6cm105bthp.JPG


We do not sell 6cm Brass, Please contact G.A. Precision to purchase brass.</span></span>
 
Re: GAP-10 Match Rifle Idea!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: A10XRIFLE</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Doing a Group buy on uppers with Dies and Brass this week, watch the Group buy section this week </div></div>

Will new orders for complete rifles also benefit from this groupbuy?

Second question will it be available to foreign Hide members?
 
Re: GAP-10 Match Rifle Idea!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: A10XRIFLE</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Doing a Group buy on uppers with Dies and Brass this week, watch the Group buy section this week</div></div>

Could someone point me to this group buy thread please?
 
Re: GAP-10 Match Rifle Idea!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: toddconley</div><div class="ubbcode-body">which is the most flat of the three?</div></div>

The flattest of the 3 is the 105 berger Hybrid. It is also currently the hardest to get with an estimated 3-4 week lead time
 
Re: GAP-10 Match Rifle Idea!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: A10XRIFLE</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Doing a Group buy on uppers with Dies and Brass this week, watch the Group buy section this week </div></div>

Patiently (Maybe not so patiently) waiting on this.
 
Re: GAP-10 Match Rifle Idea!!!!

George

Do you have any data, results, opinions regarding a 20" 6mmCM?
 
Re: GAP-10 Match Rifle Idea!!!!

Hello George/Ken,

Is there a line on 6mm CM case gauges? Another thing I need to get lined up before my GAP-10 gets finished up .
 
Re: GAP-10 Match Rifle Idea!!!!

Kritos, are you talking about something like the RCBS Precision mic gauges to measure shoulder growth after firing? Those would be useful as well as one of those Hornady/Stoney Point overall length/modified case gauges.

-Edit-Hornady already makes a 65CM version...I wonder if george could talk them into making one for the 6CM??
 
Re: GAP-10 Match Rifle Idea!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: osuarchitect</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

-Edit-Hornady already makes a 65CM version...I wonder if george could talk them into making one for the 6CM??</div></div>

<span style="font-size: 14pt"><span style="font-weight: bold">Copper Creek makes Hornady Gauges for the 6cm. They are <span style="color: #FF0000">$7 each shipped!</span>

Order here....

6mm Creedmoor Modified Case

6cmMod.JPG
</span></span>
 
Re: GAP-10 Match Rifle Idea!!!!

How about "snap-caps"? Anyone know of anyone making these for 6mm CM?
 
Re: GAP-10 Match Rifle Idea!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Steelhead</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How about "snap-caps"? Anyone know of anyone making these for 6mm CM? </div></div>

Why would you even need one? It does not hurt a centerfire rifle to be dry fired.
 
Re: GAP-10 Match Rifle Idea!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CopperCreekAmmo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: osuarchitect</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

-Edit-Hornady already makes a 65CM version...I wonder if george could talk them into making one for the 6CM??</div></div>

<span style="font-size: 14pt"><span style="font-weight: bold">Copper Creek makes Hornady Gauges for the 6cm. They are <span style="color: #FF0000">$7 each shipped!</span>

Order here....

6mm Creedmoor Modified Case </span></span> </div></div>

Awesome Josh, I heard that guy over there at Copper Creek is a badass.
 
Re: GAP-10 Match Rifle Idea!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYS338</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Steelhead</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How about "snap-caps"? Anyone know of anyone making these for 6mm CM? </div></div>

Why would you even need one? It does not hurt a centerfire rifle to be dry fired. </div></div>

I've been dry firing mine and never had an issue, but then I saw this post:

BHO breakage


I've seen this happen when guys drop the hammer on an disassembled rifle, but just in case it would be nice to have a snap cap. A bit down the line in that thread, someone else posted that his BHO broke too and that GAP told him not to dry fire his weapon. I have not called GAP to confirm.
 
Re: GAP-10 Match Rifle Idea!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: A10XRIFLE</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Range trip went well. Predicted Numbers fell into place.

Temp 81 Deg, 5 mph wind from 1100 o clock


Best Hornady 105 load was 42.5 gr H4350 Avg Vel 3070 ES 15 SD 7


Best 115 Dtac Load was 41.5 gr H4350 Avg Vel 2964 ES 8 SD 4


23" Bartlein 1- 7.7 twist barrel

the 115 load still had a little primer cratering. nothing bad and there were no failiures at all over 80 rounds.

I shot 5 random groups of three all were different load combinations average groups were 1/2 MOA or better

Next step it to take these loads from 100 to 1000 and post results. the 105 load should be 7.2 to 1000 and the 115 load should be 7.4 to 1000 both with a 1.5 Mil holdoff for a 10MPH full value wind. This is absolutly awesome for a 23" gas rifle. This puts it near equal to a 25" 7mm WSM shooting 180 VLD's

</div></div>

What primers are you folks using?

I am using CCI 200s and seem to be having pressure issues. Yesterday out of 25 shots I had 5 primers back out. As well I have slight buldging at the neck. I've never had primers back out in the past. I'm running a GAP10 /w a 23" bartlin barrel. I'm using the Hornaday 6mm brass, 115 DTACs and 41.5gr of H4350. I can go back to zero and work up a load from scratch, but it seems like you folks had this worked out. There must be something I'm missing.
 
Re: GAP-10 Match Rifle Idea!!!!

Both the 6mm Creedmoor, and the 6.5 Creedmoor sound like neat cartridges. So far, I haven't played with the new 6m's. So far, I have played around with 6.5 Grendel, 260 Rem for the cartridges that should reach out longer in a gas gun. Also played around with a 243 bolt gun.

What (if any) are the performance advantages of the 6mm Creedmoor over cartridges like the 260 Rem, 6.5 Creedmoor, or 243? Component cost is also relevant, but I'm more interested in performance first, and if the performance warrants it, then I'll look into components.

Some cartridges like the 6.5x47, 260 Rem, and 6.5 Creedmoor are so close in performance, that component price weighed heavily on my decision on which one to buy.

But, before I get into component price, I would like to know about any performance advantage that would make it worth changing from 260 Remington to 6mm Creedmoor.
 
Re: GAP-10 Match Rifle Idea!!!!

George, any chance of doing a 6mm Creed for the LMT MWS platform?
 
Re: GAP-10 Match Rifle Idea!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kritos666</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: A10XRIFLE</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Range trip went well. Predicted Numbers fell into place.

Temp 81 Deg, 5 mph wind from 1100 o clock


Best Hornady 105 load was 42.5 gr H4350 Avg Vel 3070 ES 15 SD 7


Best 115 Dtac Load was 41.5 gr H4350 Avg Vel 2964 ES 8 SD 4







23" Bartlein 1- 7.7 twist barrel

the 115 load still had a little primer cratering. nothing bad and there were no failiures at all over 80 rounds.

I shot 5 random groups of three all were different load combinations average groups were 1/2 MOA or better

Next step it to take these loads from 100 to 1000 and post results. the 105 load should be 7.2 to 1000 and the 115 load should be 7.4 to 1000 both with a 1.5 Mil holdoff for a 10MPH full value wind. This is absolutly awesome for a 23" gas rifle. This puts it near equal to a 25" 7mm WSM shooting 180 VLD's

</div></div>

What primers are you folks using?

I am using CCI 200s and seem to be having pressure issues. Yesterday out of 25 shots I had 5 primers back out. As well I have slight buldging at the neck. I've never had primers back out in the past. I'm running a GAP10 /w a 23" bartlin barrel. I'm using the Hornaday 6mm brass, 115 DTACs and 41.5gr of H4350. I can go back to zero and work up a load from scratch, but it seems like you folks had this worked out. There must be something I'm missing. </div></div>

does this happen with new brass?
 
Re: GAP-10 Match Rifle Idea!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bacarrat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">George, any chance of doing a 6mm Creed for the LMT MWS platform? </div></div>

Cannot they dont sell their components, If you want to bastardize the barrel thats on yours no sweat
 
Re: GAP-10 Match Rifle Idea!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shootist2004</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kritos666</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: A10XRIFLE</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Range trip went well. Predicted Numbers fell into place.

Temp 81 Deg, 5 mph wind from 1100 o clock


Best Hornady 105 load was 42.5 gr H4350 Avg Vel 3070 ES 15 SD 7


Best 115 Dtac Load was 41.5 gr H4350 Avg Vel 2964 ES 8 SD 4







23" Bartlein 1- 7.7 twist barrel

the 115 load still had a little primer cratering. nothing bad and there were no failiures at all over 80 rounds.

I shot 5 random groups of three all were different load combinations average groups were 1/2 MOA or better

Next step it to take these loads from 100 to 1000 and post results. the 105 load should be 7.2 to 1000 and the 115 load should be 7.4 to 1000 both with a 1.5 Mil holdoff for a 10MPH full value wind. This is absolutly awesome for a 23" gas rifle. This puts it near equal to a 25" 7mm WSM shooting 180 VLD's

</div></div>

What primers are you folks using?

I am using CCI 200s and seem to be having pressure issues. Yesterday out of 25 shots I had 5 primers back out. As well I have slight buldging at the neck. I've never had primers back out in the past. I'm running a GAP10 /w a 23" bartlin barrel. I'm using the Hornaday 6mm brass, 115 DTACs and 41.5gr of H4350. I can go back to zero and work up a load from scratch, but it seems like you folks had this worked out. There must be something I'm missing. </div></div>

does this happen with new brass?</div></div> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shootist2004</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kritos666</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: A10XRIFLE</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Range trip went well. Predicted Numbers fell into place.

Temp 81 Deg, 5 mph wind from 1100 o clock


Best Hornady 105 load was 42.5 gr H4350 Avg Vel 3070 ES 15 SD 7


Best 115 Dtac Load was 41.5 gr H4350 Avg Vel 2964 ES 8 SD 4







23" Bartlein 1- 7.7 twist barrel

the 115 load still had a little primer cratering. nothing bad and there were no failiures at all over 80 rounds.

I shot 5 random groups of three all were different load combinations average groups were 1/2 MOA or better

Next step it to take these loads from 100 to 1000 and post results. the 105 load should be 7.2 to 1000 and the 115 load should be 7.4 to 1000 both with a 1.5 Mil holdoff for a 10MPH full value wind. This is absolutly awesome for a 23" gas rifle. This puts it near equal to a 25" 7mm WSM shooting 180 VLD's

</div></div>

What primers are you folks using?

I am using CCI 200s and seem to be having pressure issues. Yesterday out of 25 shots I had 5 primers back out. As well I have slight buldging at the neck. I've never had primers back out in the past. I'm running a GAP10 /w a 23" bartlin barrel. I'm using the Hornaday 6mm brass, 115 DTACs and 41.5gr of H4350. I can go back to zero and work up a load from scratch, but it seems like you folks had this worked out. There must be something I'm missing. </div></div>

does this happen with new brass?</div></div>


41.5 with the 115 is pretty stout , some of that original data was shot in my rifle with 800-1000 rounds on it and it was in colder temps outside. 40-40.5 with the 115

Better load is 41.0 - 41.5 with the 105 Berger Hybrid it makes right at 3000 FPS and is 7.0 mils to 1000yards
 
Re: GAP-10 Match Rifle Idea!!!!

Dear Mr. Gardner,
You have probably forgotten more about firearms than I will ever even learn. It is my belief that no one does anything unless they have come to the conclusion that doing so will somehow be beneficial.

I think that both the 6mm and 6.5mm cartridges offer very useful alternatives to the 7.62x51 in gas guns that use that size of cartridge family. My earlier posting asking about the advantages of the 6mm over the 6.5mm cartridges was not meant to be in any way disrespectful, or to denigrate a new idea.

Certainly, the 6mm Creedmoor would be a great choice to consider for someone who does not already have an investment in the 6.5mm's as I do.
I am genuinely interested in finding out whether it is worthwhile for me to consider changing from the 6.5mm family of cartridges to the 6mm's.
This was the reason for my earlier inquiry about whether there is a sufficient ballistic advantage for me to change from the 260 Remington to the 6mm Creedmoor. I meant no disrespect, nor did I intend to impugne the 6mm Creedmoor in any manner.
 
Re: GAP-10 Match Rifle Idea!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shootist2004</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

does this happen with new brass?</div></div>
Yes it does, but I was using 41.5 in a brand new, as in 75 rnds down the tube GAP10.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: A10XRIFLE</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
41.5 with the 115 is pretty stout , some of that original data was shot in my rifle with 800-1000 rounds on it and it was in colder temps outside. 40-40.5 with the 115

Better load is 41.0 - 41.5 with the 105 Berger Hybrid it makes right at 3000 FPS and is 7.0 mils to 1000yards </div></div>

George replied to a PM and pointed me in the right direction..
My ladder test showed that for me in my GAP10 im at 39.7-39.9. 40.2 was just barely cratering primers. I have to now try out those and see which groups best, then start the dance of seating depth.

Thanks again George for the pointers !!
 
Re: GAP-10 Match Rifle Idea!!!!

I am seeing nearly same results. I did find a node at 3230 but it has to be cold outside to work well and brass life is significantly shortened in the primer pockets.
 
Re: GAP-10 Match Rifle Idea!!!!

My rifle is punching a hole clear through the primer @ 42.5 and 105s. Is this a pressure issue or a mechanical issue? This is 4350. I would like to try 4831ssc. I may when I get some time.
 
Re: GAP-10 Match Rifle Idea!!!!

Todd I was able to go a good distance above that. Actually that is where I am now with zero issues, even in extreme heat. Might pose that question to George
 
Re: GAP-10 Match Rifle Idea!!!!

are you all get bad ejector swipe on your brass? at 41.7 H4350 I am.

I think I'll stone the edges of the ejector.
 
Re: GAP-10 Match Rifle Idea!!!!

Chance of 1 lot of 4350 being hotter than another? I know Hornady changed thier 6.5 CM load from 42.3 to 41.5.
 
Re: GAP-10 Match Rifle Idea!!!!

At last PMG my rifle wouldnt run. I did everything to it. Oil clean ect. Thought it was the bolt. Took the bolt apart and pieces of primer fell out everywhere. I haven't shot it since but I am pretty sure this why it wouldn't go into battery consistently. I'm calling josh when I get time. Just can't find the time. There is room in that case for 4831. Just don't know how much.
 
Re: GAP-10 Match Rifle Idea!!!!

The only load to run in a Gas rifle is 41.0 to 41.2

Some Climates will allow for 41.7 but for the most part keeping it to 41.0 is critical for not going overpressure when it gets hot.

Ive run 4 matches with mine and never had a single malfuntion. Jon Lester is running one with no problems to speak of, Jeff Badley is having no issues and run his at several matches.

If your blowing up primers. Stop and re-evaluate your load. may have a bad combination going on.
 
Re: GAP-10 Match Rifle Idea!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: A10XRIFLE</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The only load to run in a Gas rifle is 41.0 to 41.2

Some Climates will allow for 41.7 but for the most part keeping it to 41.0 is critical for not going overpressure when it gets hot.
</div></div>

What powder and bullet combo are you staying 41-41.2? In earlier posts you were suggesting to run 42.5 of H4350 for the Hornady 105.

Thanks!
 
Re: GAP-10 Match Rifle Idea!!!!

H4350 at 41.0 to 41.2 is about right with a Hornady 105 BTHP. I wouldn't go higher in charge unless you have a slower burn rate lot# of H4350, accuracy is suffering or velocity is well below expected.

H4831 mentioned above works well with a bolt rifle and 115s. Issue with H4831 in gasser is it will increase your port pressure and gas volume available to cycle BCG.
 
Re: GAP-10 Match Rifle Idea!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: koz</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: A10XRIFLE</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The only load to run in a Gas rifle is 41.0 to 41.2

Some Climates will allow for 41.7 but for the most part keeping it to 41.0 is critical for not going overpressure when it gets hot.
</div></div>

What powder and bullet combo are you staying 41-41.2? In earlier posts you were suggesting to run 42.5 of H4350 for the Hornady 105.

Thanks!</div></div>

Andrew said it already and he nailed it on the head, guys pumping powder into their cases run the risk of over gassing their guns.

That said, when George originally claimed 42.5 gr of powder the Gap10 he was shooting had well over 800 rounds on it and his throat had wore in allowing the bullet to be seated further out making more room in the case!

A gas gun needs an adaptive loading style. As you shoot more and more rounds through your gun it will be necessary to adjust your load to maintain its originally accuracy/velocity numbers.
 
Re: GAP-10 Match Rifle Idea!!!!

Thank you guys - I appreciate it.
 
Re: GAP-10 Match Rifle Idea!!!! 6mm Creedmoor

Hello All,

I have been reading recent posts. I choose to use a 115 DTAC due to the higher BC. My intent with this rifle (GAP-10 in 6mm CM) was to go out to 800-1500 yards or so. However it seems everyone is using 105's. Should I drop the 115s ?

I have had much different results than others it seems. My load testing showed that 37.6 was the most accurate. Its pretty slow, but its grouping way better than 39.8 or 39.7 Just over 1/2 MOA vs 1 MOA. I still have to do the math on the targets to give specifics. All that said, its tough to argue with 1/2 vs 1 MOA difference. At the same time, the velocity of 2688 is really slow, and I'll pay for it at extended ranges.

Sorry for my ignorance, this is my 1st run at wildcats. If anyone has recommendations for 115's or if I should just drop them and why it would be much appreciated.

Thanks
 
Re: GAP-10 Match Rifle Idea!!!! 6mm Creedmoor

I will stop and pull these loaded rounds apart and have a do over. 41 has already shot well in my rifle. I just thought it would take 42.5 b/c of the early data
 
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