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Suppressors Form 1 kicked back for description?

RyeDaddy

RyeDaddy

Dickhole
Full Member
Minuteman
Jan 19, 2009
996
12
Hellbound in Fort Worth, TX
Just received a Form 1 for an SBR back with an error letter because under description I put "Cal Multi". That box says to enter any other markings on the receiver, the receiver is marked with "Cal Multi" where any other one would say "5.56", WTF?

The error letter stated that multiple calibers are not accepted on the form and that it must go on a seperate letter to the ATF. I understood that from the start,I wasn't stating that it will be multi caliber SBR, I was just adding the additional description because it's engraved on the damn receiver. I<span style="font-weight: bold">'m gonna reprint the copies of the Form 1 and fill them out again and send them back with the description box left blank I guess. That's what I should do, right?</span>

The good news is that the letter arrived in my mailbox exactly 4 months from the day of pending so things must be improving.
 
Re: Form 1 kicked back for description?

No, don't print it out again.

Put 1 line (exactly 1 line) through "Multi", initial the change, and register it for the caliber you're looking for.

Also, you want to specify the units on the caliber

"5.56" means what? inches, millimeters, feet?

I know, sounds ridiculous, but the name of the game here is dotted i's and crossed t's.

5.56 should be "5.56mm NATO" if you're trying to specify a 223.

They no longer allow "Multi" cal forms and "Multi" on there will et it bounced, your intent on the form wasn't understood and they just saw "multi" so it came back.
 
Re: Form 1 kicked back for description?

And if you plan to have 5.56 NATO, 6.8mm SPC, and .300 BLK uppers, does each need a separate Form 1?
 
Re: Form 1 kicked back for description?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nukes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And if you plan to have 5.56 NATO, 6.8mm SPC, and .300 BLK uppers, does each need a separate Form 1? </div></div>

Yes and no. Technically you need to register the SBR with additional calibers once it's been cleared for an initial weapon upper.

It's not a new Form 1 and not another tax stamp but rather a letter of notification. The ATF website has specifics on it that are pretty easy to follow.

That's the technicallity of it. A lot of people aren't aware of it and don't bother. Again, technically breaking the law but as of yet I have not heard of ANYONE (even in internet lore) being busted for dropping a 300BLK upper on their SBR lower for a blast at the range.

I would still send the letter in, personally.
 
Re: Form 1 kicked back for description?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bohem</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nukes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And if you plan to have 5.56 NATO, 6.8mm SPC, and .300 BLK uppers, does each need a separate Form 1? </div></div>

Yes and no. Technically you need to register the SBR with additional calibers once it's been cleared for an initial weapon upper.

It's not a new Form 1 and not another tax stamp but rather a letter of notification. The ATF website has specifics on it that are pretty easy to follow.

That's the technicallity of it. A lot of people aren't aware of it and don't bother. Again, technically breaking the law but as of yet I have not heard of ANYONE (even in internet lore) being busted for dropping a 300BLK upper on their SBR lower for a blast at the range.

I would still send the letter in, personally. </div></div>


You can "temporarily" use a different caliber/setup upper when you go shoot. But my understanding is it has to be put in its registered configuration at the end of the day.
 
Re: Form 1 kicked back for description?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Q: May the short barrel on an SBR or SBS be replaced with a long barrel for hunting or other purposes, with the intent of replacing the short barrel?

Yes, and you will not be required to again register the firearm before replacing the short barrel. ATF recommends written notification to the NFA Branch when a firearm’s configuration is permanently changed or removed from the purview of the NFA.</div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Q: If removal and destruction or disposition of the short barrel removes the firearm from the purview NFA, is there a minimum time period the barrel must remain unattached for the firearm to not be regulated under the NFA?

The temporary removal of the barrel for repair <span style="font-weight: bold">or change of caliber</span> does not remove a NFA firearm from the purview of the NFA. If the registrant maintains control of the parts required for assembly of a SBR, he or she must maintain the registration as a SBS or SBS regardless of the length of time that the barrel is unattached.</div></div>

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/national...emoval-from-nfa

Looks to me like it is recommended to notify ATF, but nowhere does it say that it is required-- even if the change is permanent.
 
Re: Form 1 kicked back for description?

I had the caliber and everything listed correctly on the form, just had extraneous info in box 4h. I had Cal Multi listed as it's an engraving on the side of the firearm.

I did the smart thing and called and spoke with the examiner. He said I could print and fill out new forms, or line through and send the originals back, it doesn't matter. He said if it says "multi" or anything of the sort anywhere on the form it ends up getting returned eith an error letter because they assume you're trying to register in multiple calibers. I just lined through it and mailed it back this afternoon.
 
Re: Form 1 kicked back for description?

you can put one caliber in box 4C then put all the others you plan to use in box 4H
 
Re: Form 1 kicked back for description?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: operator45</div><div class="ubbcode-body">you can put one caliber in box 4C then put all the others you plan to use in box 4H</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: operator45</div><div class="ubbcode-body">you can also use white out on the form</div></div>

I was told specifically today by MY examiner that neither of these are allowed. Ask 10 people, get 11 different answers with the ATF.

I was told to put the trust engraving in box 4h, which I forgot to do so it turned out to be a good thing I decided to call.
 
Re: Form 1 kicked back for description?

I have a form 4 from a couple years ago with white out on it that cleared just fine.

Anyway, yeah, ATF has been rejecting "multi" on form 1's for several years. I did get a form 4 approved with multi because the form 2 said multi, but that was also a couple years back.
 
Re: Form 1 kicked back for description?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Poison123</div><div class="ubbcode-body">


You can "temporarily" use a different caliber/setup upper when you go shoot. But my understanding is it has to be put in its registered configuration at the end of the day.
</div></div>

That might be true, though when I was reading through it recently for the same question it seemed pretty clear that you couldn't put another caliber upper on without the letter.
 
Re: Form 1 kicked back for description?

You only need a letter for permanent changes of caliber, if you still retain the registered caliber upper then where was the permanent change?

ATF will say they want to know the other calibers and amend the form but there is no requirement so long as the change is temporary not permanent.
 
Re: Form 1 kicked back for description?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RyeDaddy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: operator45</div><div class="ubbcode-body">you can put one caliber in box 4C then put all the others you plan to use in box 4H</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: operator45</div><div class="ubbcode-body">you can also use white out on the form</div></div>

I was told specifically today by MY examiner that neither of these are allowed. Ask 10 people, get 10 different answers.

I was told to put the trust engraving in box 4h, which I forgot to do so it turned out to be a good thing I decided to call. </div></div>

Kinda confused.. the examiner told you to put the trust engraving in 4H or draw line or reprint and leave 4H blank? Wasn't clear if thats just what someone else said or the examiner said.
 
Re: Form 1 kicked back for description?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: springer01</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RyeDaddy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: operator45</div><div class="ubbcode-body">you can put one caliber in box 4C then put all the others you plan to use in box 4H</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: operator45</div><div class="ubbcode-body">you can also use white out on the form</div></div>

I was told specifically today by MY examiner that neither of these are allowed. Ask 10 people, get 10 different answers.

I was told to put the trust engraving in box 4h, which I forgot to do so it turned out to be a good thing I decided to call. </div></div>

Kinda confused.. the examiner told you to put the trust engraving in 4H or draw line or reprint and leave 4H blank? Wasn't clear if thats just what someone else said or the examiner said.</div></div>

Examiner said line through or reprint the form, and the only thing that needs to be in 4h is the trust name and city engraving. I was warned that if that's not in 4h it will get sent back with another error letter. If I didn't have a trust I would just leave 4h blank after having talked to the examiner. Does that answer your question?
 
Re: Form 1 kicked back for description?

Yes, thank you! I left mine blank and I have a trust, it was approved in July. Next time I guess Ill add the trust name, city and state in 4H.
 
Re: Form 1 kicked back for description?

AAAHHHHHHH! One day to late I read this. Is there anyway to get my forms back and correct the "multi" mistake without waiting 6 months to do it.
 
Re: Form 1 kicked back for description?

I made the mistake of not entering the sbr lower make and serial number on the Schedule A of my Trust. I will be contacting the ATF once mine goes pending.
Every time I add a new NFA item I seem to make a new mistake....
 
Re: Form 1 kicked back for description?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: codyb</div><div class="ubbcode-body">AAAHHHHHHH! One day to late I read this. Is there anyway to get my forms back and correct the "multi" mistake without waiting 6 months to do it. </div></div>

lol not really.
 
Re: Form 1 kicked back for description?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: m14er</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I made the mistake of not entering the sbr lower make and serial number on the Schedule A of my Trust. I will be contacting the ATF once mine goes pending.
Every time I add a new NFA item I seem to make a new mistake....</div></div>

I ddn't addd it to the schedule A, and they didn't say anything about that. It's not back yet either though.
 
Re: Form 1 kicked back for description?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: m14er</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I made the mistake of not entering the sbr lower make and serial number on the Schedule A of my Trust. I will be contacting the ATF once mine goes pending.
Every time I add a new NFA item I seem to make a new mistake.... </div></div>

Is the SBR you didn't add the one you are waiting for approval on or a previously approved SBR?
 
Re: Form 1 kicked back for description?

The one I'm waiting on. It shouldn't get added to the schedule A till the stamp comes back, right?

I feel retarded dealing with Govt forms, always something to screw up it seems.
 
Re: Form 1 kicked back for description?

RyeDaddy I think it depends on your examiner.
 
Re: Form 1 kicked back for description?

I have always added the current item under review after the process, and am going on #5 stamp with no problems. Because it's not in your trust possession until after ATF says its ok. I was actually asking the question to m14er and was going to tell him what I just told you.
 
Re: Form 1 kicked back for description?

Thanks. The item in question that was not added to the Schedule A is the SBR lower I am currently trying to get an approval for (ie. tax stamp). What I am hearing and will probably call the ATF about is that it may not need to be added until it is approved....
 
Re: Form 1 kicked back for description?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: m14er</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks. The item in question that was not added to the Schedule A is the SBR lower I am currently trying to get an approval for (ie. tax stamp). <span style="color: #CC6600">What I am hearing and will probably call the ATF about is that it may not need to be added until it is approved....</span> </div></div>

That's not entirely correct. Each examiner will have somewhat different requirements. Mine has always asked that I acknowledge that addition of the new item by adding it to my Schedule A before they approve it. They want to know that I am properly adding my items to the trust. I have done it that way for almost 7 years now with no issues. I would add it and be done with it. Good luck.
 
Re: Form 1 kicked back for description?

Better send it before they "problem status" it and kick it back to you for a month long delay....
 
Re: Form 1 kicked back for description?

I just got an SBR approved with 3 calibers listed in 4c...

sbr-1.jpg
 
Re: Form 1 kicked back for description?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bronson90</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just got an SBR approved with 3 calibers listed in 4c...

sbr-1.jpg


</div></div>
Wow thats one short ass barrel!!

I forgot to send copies of my Schedule A last time. The examiners assistant called me and said to just email it. She said as soon as she got it would be ready for approval. I emailed it the next day and by the next week had my stamp. I was thinking that would add a month or so to the process, but it didn't.
 
Re: Form 1 kicked back for description?

Wow, there is a lot of information in this thread that is wrong. I don't even know where to start. There is no reason to ever put anything in 4h unless it is an imported gun, and put the importers name there.
 
Re: Form 1 kicked back for description?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: teerex</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wow, there is a lot of information in this thread that is wrong. I don't even know where to start. There is no reason to ever put anything in 4h unless it is an imported gun, and put the importers name there. </div></div>

Enlighten us ....?
 
Re: Form 1 kicked back for description?

A lot of it people have already gone back and forth on.

Listing one caliber does not limit you to one configuration, especially when dealing with and AR style platform that is modular. There is no rule that the gun has to be put back together as listed at the end of the day.

I would never use white out on a form. The single line with initials is definitely the way to go on corrections.

The examiners really seem to be doing things much more uniformly than they had in the past.

The form posted here with 3 calibers listed is the only one I have heard of recently that wasn't kicked back, it is not something I would try as I have seen people get them kicked back for listing .223 and 300blk and 9mm on one form.

I only list a receiver on a schedule A if it is for a form 1. My trust owns the receiver already. My trust does not own a suppressor until the form 4 comes back and the suppressor is transferred.

I'm not a lawyer, just an NFA enthusiast, so my thought are worth what you paid for them.
 
Re: Form 1 kicked back for description?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: teerex</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A lot of it people have already gone back and forth on.

Listing one caliber does not limit you to one configuration, especially when dealing with and AR style platform that is modular. There is no rule that the gun has to be put back together as listed at the end of the day.

I would never use white out on a form. The single line with initials is definitely the way to go on corrections.

The examiners really seem to be doing things much more uniformly than they had in the past.

The form posted here with 3 calibers listed is the only one I have heard of recently that wasn't kicked back, it is not something I would try as I have seen people get them kicked back for listing .223 and 300blk and 9mm on one form.

I only list a receiver on a schedule A if it is for a form 1. My trust owns the receiver already. My trust does not own a suppressor until the form 4 comes back and the suppressor is
transferred.
I'm not a lawyer, just an NFA enthusiast, so my thought are worth what you paid for them. </div></div>

Agree with all the above, actually never really thought about adding the receiver to schedule A for a form 1 like you said, but makes sense. I didn't on my form 1 SBR and it was approved.
 
Re: Form 1 kicked back for description?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: teerex</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A lot of it people have already gone back and forth on.

Listing one caliber does not limit you to one configuration, especially when dealing with and AR style platform that is modular. There is no rule that the gun has to be put back together as listed at the end of the day.

I would never use white out on a form. The single line with initials is definitely the way to go on corrections.

The examiners really seem to be doing things much more uniformly than they had in the past.

The form posted here with 3 calibers listed is the only one I have heard of recently that wasn't kicked back, it is not something I would try as I have seen people get them kicked back for listing .223 and 300blk and 9mm on one form.

I only list a receiver on a schedule A if it is for a form 1. My trust owns the receiver already. My trust does not own a suppressor until the form 4 comes back and the suppressor is transferred.

I'm not a lawyer, just an NFA enthusiast, so my thought are worth what you paid for them. </div></div>

Actually, if the trust pays for the item.... it does own it. You are just awaiting transfer paperwork. Just hang on to your bill of sale from the transaction.

There are so many grey areas in NFA you could call them 5 times asking the same question and get 6 different answers.
 
Re: Form 1 kicked back for description?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RyeDaddy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The error letter stated that multiple calibers are not accepted on the form ... </div></div>

I feel your pain. Happened to me on an attempt to register an ACR, which is stamped multi-cal.

I'm kind of glad though, because I'm selling my ACR (selling SBR would suck) and instead applied for a Noveske 10.5" Switchblock app.
 
Re: Form 1 kicked back for description?

And all this is why I have yet to do a SBR, just do not want to screw up the forms. Seems I would not be the first.
 
Re: Form 1 kicked back for description?

Not allowing multi on caliber is stupid...

The lower is registered not the upper...

The ATF tech branch is the problem

I submitted Form 2's years ago with multi as caliber

Then Tech branch got in the way of NFA

P
 
Re: Form 1 kicked back for description?

I also think specifying the length is stupid. < 16" would be my preference, so I could have multiple lengths.

I know people claim it's fine if you registered shorter and went longer, but I think these apps are fraught with ways for them to claim you screwed up.

So I have a hard time getting a SBR .300 blk upper for my 5.56 SBR lower.
 
Re: Form 1 kicked back for description?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: teerex</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Listing one caliber does not limit you to one configuration, especially when dealing with and AR style platform that is modular. There is no rule that the gun has to be put back together as listed at the end of the day.</div></div>

So there is absolutely nothing preventing me from putting a .300 blk on a SBR registered as 5.56? What about a shorter barrel than the 10.5" I claimed when registering?
 
Re: Form 1 kicked back for description?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sandwalk3r</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: teerex</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Listing one caliber does not limit you to one configuration, especially when dealing with and AR style platform that is modular. There is no rule that the gun has to be put back together as listed at the end of the day.</div></div>

So there is absolutely nothing preventing me from putting a .300 blk on a SBR registered as 5.56? What about a shorter barrel than the 10.5" I claimed when registering? </div></div>

No problem doing either of those.
 
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