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ELR Course at Gunsite

Re: ELR Course at Gunsite

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sinister</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There are a number of other forms. A DSP-5 covers exporting technology and technical data -- which may or may not have anything to do with an objective, hard item (i.e., training, even if it is on all foreign-made, imported equipment). http://www.pmddtc.state.gov/DTRADE/documents/dtrade_dsp_5_instructions.pdf

The way the USML is worded, exposing non-marketing data (brochures, catalogs, etc.) to a potential foreign customer may be a violation (i.e., letting him look through a non-exportable Starlight image intensifier or thermal system).

The USML covers articles, <span style="font-style: italic">services,</span> and technical data. Category IX covers training.

http://www.pmddtc.state.gov/regulations_laws/documents/official_itar/ITAR_Part_121.pdf</div></div>


Seems I am screwed,...its ok for us NATO/ISAF partners to get shot at for US interests but hell no we are far too "subversive" to allow to attend a civilian rifle class in the US.

Given the extreme hoops we have to jump through to even get a firearm there is something fundamentally wrong with how allies are treated,....

Now if I was an Iranian, I could join the 300.000 others welcomed without hinderance that currently live in LA alone!!!

If anyone wants to come this side,..jump on a plane,..its open to pretty much anyone with a legal firearm to come and shoot. Even in our backward restrictive Country!
 
Re: ELR Course at Gunsite

Emouse,

The restrictions are probably limited in scope to you personally.
wink.gif


In all seriousness, the State Department, and DOJ, do tend to trace the same template that demoted the Winston Churchill bust from the Oval Office to the White House residence, and gifted a presidential ipod to Queen Elizabeth.

We seem to be much more enamored with third-world oligarchs, and dictators at present.

If you were a Mexican Drug cartel, the ATF would likely find a way to accommodate you. We are, after all, quite "progressive".
 
Re: ELR Course at Gunsite

Cory,
when does the FFS class start on the 14th?
Also, will this be a beginner as in brand new owner class or an advanced class?
 
Re: ELR Course at Gunsite

It will be a complete course from the ground up. When we are done you'll know everything there is to know about the system.
 
Re: ELR Course at Gunsite

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bm11</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For the class special on the Terrapin- what is the sales tax in AZ and do I have to pay it as a Maine resident? </div></div>

Maine residents have to pay a tax just to come to Arizona, its called the sunshine tax. Haha joking.
 
Re: ELR Course at Gunsite

As long as you get the Terrapin delivered to the Maine rather than picking it up here, no tax involved.
 
Re: ELR Course at Gunsite

I have one slot still available. The Terrapin cost is in my email up at the office, I'' shoot you a note when I can get up there.
 
Re: ELR Course at Gunsite

Just pulled into Durango, car full of guns, suppressors, ammo - fuc&i n' snowstorm on Wolf Creek Pass - shoulda' caught a plane tomorrow with Lowlight!!!
 
Re: ELR Course at Gunsite

I am in town and ready for tomorrow's FFS class
 
Re: ELR Course at Gunsite

Get super deep into FFS today, when you get into the features of this program, really get into them, it is so feature rich it will make your head spin. Cory took us through every aspect of the program, then group lunch at Casa Grande,

68384_10151287205902953_1883887548_n.jpg


Here I am with my own kind of Grande pulling into Gunsite

522838_471320792891449_1627477660_n.jpg
 
Re: ELR Course at Gunsite

Awesome, when is the next class? I'm im. FFS is awesome....
 
Re: ELR Course at Gunsite

FFS class was cool today, a bit overwhelming as the software has so many facets. However, I am looking forward to putting all that to good use getting rounds on steel down range.

Excited for what the next couple days will bring.
 
Re: ELR Course at Gunsite

We've got one on the schedule for the first week of November next year, but with enough interest we can make up another in the spring, say April timeframe? If you did not make it to this one and have an interest in an earlier date, just call teh office and we'll start a list.

Over the next couple of days, we should put the software through the paces so that everyone gets pretty comfortable with the major features. Weather looks great, this will be great good fun!
 
Re: ELR Course at Gunsite

Cory did a great job today. Great bunch, cant wait to get going and calibrate the system, but more to the point learn the process.

To put H1000 to the test for temperature sensitivity I have my rounds soaking in the car. it gets to around 38-40 degrees F at night and around 80-85 in the day.

Load data:
93gn H1000
Fed 215M
Lapua Brass
Lapua Scenar 250


-K
 
Re: ELR Course at Gunsite

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here I am with my own kind of Grande pulling into Gunsite</div></div>The truck must have been stopped for that photo: There's no way that coffee would remain on the dashboard while driving on that road!
laugh.gif
 
Re: ELR Course at Gunsite

Here are a few pictures from the ELR class.

Down the line Day 1 zero the rifle and calibration of FFS

[img:center]
Gun1.jpg
[/img]

Downrange

[img:center]
Gun2.jpg
[/img]

Frank recording his dope without the aid of a spotting scope. When you are a certified sniper you too can use the force.

[img:center]
gun3.jpg
[/img]

More images to come on Day two.

shooting out to 500 and 1000 yards -- more calibration.
 
Re: ELR Course at Gunsite

Awesome day today, weather is all but perfect.

644056_10151290411247953_900417408_n.jpg


Shot on paper at 500, 750, 1000, 1500 yards ... this allowed us to calibrate our software to near perfection. We had 3 Chronographs on the line for anyone who wanted to get additional data as he shot.

Also I was using the Vision Pro Shop iPhone Adapter for my Spotter 60, the images were awesome. I have some pretty clear shots I will post later that were done at 2989 yards away.

550870_10151290335357953_55620518_n.jpg


In all a great day on the line. Where else can you shoot to 1500 on paper to verify your data points.
 
Re: ELR Course at Gunsite

whenever I attend these sorts of programs, I always get envious of those with nice cans ... in Cali we'd be treated like the worst sort of felons with the same piece of hardware legal in many other states.
 
Re: ELR Course at Gunsite

More pictures of Day 2

You have to love those muzzle breaks-- Notice the dust and the steel case protecting the non muzzle break shooters.

[img:center]
Day2-2.jpg
[/img]

What a beautiful day to shoot

[img:center]
Day2-1.jpg
[/img]
 
Re: ELR Course at Gunsite

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cali_tz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">whenever I attend these sorts of programs, I always get envious of those with nice cans ... in Cali we'd be treated like the worst sort of felons with the same piece of hardware legal in many other states. </div></div>

And the irony is that many of those cans are made in CA!
 
Re: ELR Course at Gunsite

There are some slick setups there with rangefinders slaved to spotters. I can see a PLRF-25C top mounted on a Mark4 as well as a side mounted PLRF-10 on a Spotter 60.
smile.gif
 
Re: ELR Course at Gunsite

Dam so I'm working on a well on the back side of paulden listening to you guys shoot as I right this Wishing I could run home grab the .338 and head that way lol. Looks like a awsome experience. Maybe next time for me
 
Re: ELR Course at Gunsite

Today was one of the best days shooting I have very had. A lot of huge milestones for me in this class, before the longest I had shot was 1150 yards. Today, tagging targets out to 1500 to 1600 yards was easy with many first round hits. After breaking for lunch, I "cold bore" hit a sub moa wide steel target at a mile. Made a second and third round hit on an 18" wide x 5' tall target (man size) at 2200 yards, and all sorts of first, second, and third round hits in between. I might add that having Cory Trapp as my personal spotter making my wind calls helped more than a little...

I am learning a ton and am having a blast, I think the only real down side is that after this going back to shooting 800-1000 yards will not only be easy, but will feel lame in comparison. I may have to come back.
 
Re: ELR Course at Gunsite

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bm11</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Today was one of the best days shooting I have very had. A lot of huge milestones for me in this class, before the longest I had shot was 1150 yards. Today, tagging targets out to 1500 to 1600 yards was easy with many first round hits. After breaking for lunch, I "cold bore" hit a sub moa wide steel target at a mile. Made a second and third round hit on an 18" wide x 5' tall target (man size) at 2200 yards, and all sorts of first, second, and third round hits in between. I might add that having Cory Trapp as my personal spotter making my wind calls helped more than a little...

I am learning a ton and am having a blast, I think the only real down side is that after this going back to shooting 800-1000 yards will not only be easy, but will feel lame in comparison. I may have to come back.</div></div>

Yeah, Cory has been a great instructor - a real "master" - and having Lowlight here as well has been great - but he smokes all of us, no surprise, LOL! Plus the great group we have on the line. Last day tomorrow - sure it'll be tons of fun plus more learning!

-Sam
 
Re: ELR Course at Gunsite

Thursday was UKD day and it was a blast! Having a full day shooting paper out at range and transitioning all that gained data to a full day of UKD targets was a stroke of genius. At least one person had >50% first time hits!

Many thanks to Cory and the Gunsite staff for a unique experience
 
Re: ELR Course at Gunsite

This was a great course! Not only all the ELR shooting we got to do under great conditions.. but learning to calibrate and tune the FFS to your rifle. Was within 0.1 Mil from 100 to 2000 meters!

Thanks to Cory and the rest of the staff for all the tips and help, and great group of shooters who made up the class. This was a blast! Well.. I only had a brake.. no can.. so quite literally a blast! LOL!
 
Re: ELR Course at Gunsite

Great time for sure at this class. Hypertex- myself and Kyle (XLR) both had 50% or better first round hits that I know of, and it could have been more shooters that didn't speak up. I had 5 first round hits, 3 second round hits, and 2 third round hits out of the 10 total targets I engaged. I FIRMLY believe I couldn't have done that before taking this class.

The weather certainly was a help, I will say that!

if anyone is I interested, I am brain storming a "ELR 2" for a group of us who have already taken this course, focusing on more shooting time so as to not duplicate the classroom time for those who have taken it. I'll start a thread on it at some point but if anyone has any ideas on additional material to add jn, feel free to PM me.
 
Re: ELR Course at Gunsite

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bm11</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Great time for sure at this class. Hypertex- myself and Kyle (XLR) both had 50% or better first round hits that I know of, and it could have been more shooters that didn't speak up. I had 5 first round hits, 3 second round hits, and 2 third round hits out of the 10 total targets I engaged. I FIRMLY believe I couldn't have done that before taking this class.

The weather certainly was a help, I will say that!

if anyone is I interested, I am brain storming a "ELR 2" for a group of us who have already taken this course, focusing on more shooting time so as to not duplicate the classroom time for those who have taken it. I'll start a thread on it at some point but if anyone has any ideas on additional material to add jn, feel free to PM me.


Im in. Suppressors only, right??!!




</div></div>
 
Re: ELR Course at Gunsite

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tom Olson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Im in. Suppressors only, right??!!
</div></div>I'll have one before next time, that's for sure.
 
Re: ELR Course at Gunsite

I am in the process of catching up and will have a complete AAR after...

On Wednesday I second round hit every one of the 1600, 1700, 1800, 1900 and 2000 targets out there. Didn't take more than two.

First thing yesterday I went for that 1075 target and my first round went .7 mils left, and .5 high, then after correcting it went 1.5 mils left and off into the woods... so my scope took a left turn on me as we know there was not 1.5 wind out there. I ended up using Len's AX and on Walt's stage had at least 4, 1st round hits with Len's rifle there. Including that 1650 target were I drove the 10" swing open hard. Had a few others but nothing to write home about, as I had to adjust slightly to his dope and my shooting.

My wind was spot on, I know I gave Len a few 1st round calls, he was close to 4 or 5 by the end of the day. Once Sam switched over to his 408 he was spot on too, his TRG had a loose scope, about the 3 or 4th target he moved and I saw his scope wiggle, his rings were loose. So that was part of his issue, as we tried to rezero at distance.

Overall it was the best of my 3 trips, even with my scope taking a left turn, what a great class. The additions of the day on paper out to 1500 was awesome and well worth the trip. (How about that 6" of vertical at 1500, with factory ammo, LOL)

For those interested I still think the Hornady Factory 285grs are the shit. Not only in results, but in price tag. You can't go wrong with them.
 
Re: ELR Course at Gunsite

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">First thing yesterday I went for that 1075 target and my first round went .7 mils left, and .5 high, then after correcting it went 1.5 mils left and off into the woods... so my scope took a left turn on me as we know there was not 1.5 wind out there.</div></div>What scope was it, and what happened to it?
 
Re: ELR Course at Gunsite

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What scope was it, and what happened to it? </div></div>

Both, Franks and my S&B PM II 5-25 went south. So off for repair they go.

Franks windage turret and my elevation turret where not adjusting what we dialed in.
 
Re: ELR Course at Gunsite

Ya my original 5-25x <span style="font-style: italic">(circa 2005 I think)</span>

247786_10151297996919453_1991895928_n.jpg


It was spot on all week, then Thursday it went hard left on me. I was off into no mans land so I am gonna send it in to see what's up.
 
Re: ELR Course at Gunsite

I do have to say this class went very, very well. Great equipment and great shooting by all. I think doing an XLR-2 class with 1 day to calibrate new systems and 2 days of UKD range shooting would be an excellent idea, we can add 4 more shooting locations easy to do the extra UKD's. Maybe in October again?

Walt and I went out this morning and made some targeting adjustments on the calibration range, opening up the 800m and 1100m plate views and adding a 900m plate. The 1400m plate is moved to a point near the 1450m plate that provides a good clear backdrop for spotting impacts. We got some additional UKD targets and FFP's laid in as well.

We are looking at making a raised pad on the paper range to make setup of the chronographs simple. I'd like to end up with 3 more PVM-21's, but they are a bit on the expensive side for a class that runs maybe twice a year.

On that note, we have it on the schedule now for the first week of November next year, but if there is demand we could do a springtime class as well, say late March or April? Call the office or PM me with good dates to start a list.

JaneAnne tells me some pics are going up on the FB page, plus she's putting one in the calendar layout for 2014 already.
 
Re: ELR Course at Gunsite

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bm11</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tom Olson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Im in. Suppressors only, right??!!
</div></div>I'll have one before next time, that's for sure. </div></div>

Ditto re can

I'm in
 
Re: ELR Course at Gunsite

It was great time for all .. here are a few more images -- I have more but I have busy cleaning up my equipment

On the line -- some really nice weapon systems. Notice on the far end there are some big cases around one the weapons that had muzzle breaks. Every time it fired it shook those cases. Suppressors are were much nicer on the ears and the body when shooting next to one.

ontheline.jpg


Frank and Cory's spotting scope

Frank.jpg


During the night shoot we got to use some nice equipment -- just remember to bring your check book or credit card.

NV1.jpg

 
Re: ELR Course at Gunsite

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hypertex</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bm11</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tom Olson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Im in. Suppressors only, right??!!
</div></div>I'll have one before next time, that's for sure. </div></div>

Ditto re can

I'm in </div></div>

Oh come on Tom we want to put you between us muzzle blasters again. Lol.

I am in too -- I should have my suppressor in the next few months depending on the ATF.

-K
 
Re: ELR Course at Gunsite

Lack of Suppressor was the reason I didn't plan to attend this class. I can't even shoot at a range with a good conscience. So I fly solo and remote. LOL

See ya there in '13. Bringing another shooter.

Taylor
 
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