Range Report 162 AMAX vs the heavies in 7mm!

[alpha6164]

Just ordered my Broughton 5c heavy palma barrel in preparation for my 7wsm build and quite excited. Been looking at the different projectiles etc and obviously the 180 hybrids seem to be the latest and greatest. But when i plug the numbers on the 162amax at 3100ft/sec vs the 180s at 2950ftsec the 162amax appears to hold its own pretty darn well. It definitely shoots flatter to a 1000 yards by 19" and gives up only an inch at a 1000 with 5mph cross wind. Is the 162amax that good of a bullet?

I like to hear from people that have used both and have decided to stick with the 162s and your experiences. Thanks.

 

[turbo54]

Re: 162 AMAX vs the heavies in 7mm!

What BC are you using for your figures?

Legit BC for the 162 is ~.6, and ~.67 for the 180 hybrid.

However, as you are noticing, the 162 is pretty awesome to 1000, giving up little to the 180s. Past 1000, the 180s take over, though.

This is particularly true in cartridges that can only get the 180s to ~2900 or <span style="text-decoration: line-through">LESS</span> MORE.

EDIT: surprised all y'all type A personalities didn't call me out on this! What I'm getting at is those cartridges that can hit 2900+ with a 180 don't see as much fps improvementfrom the 162s as the lower capacity cartridges, somewhat nullifying the velocity advantage of them.

 

[coldboremiracle]

Re: 162 AMAX vs the heavies in 7mm!

Interesting subject, while I havent tried the 180 bergers, I did notice that when shooting 1600yds with two loads (162&180smk, both loaded to 3000 ish) the 180 load showed pressure signs, and was a full MIL lower than the 162.

 

[jbailey]

Re: 162 AMAX vs the heavies in 7mm!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: alpha6164</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It definitely shoots flatter to a 1000 yards by 19" and gives up only an inch at a 1000 with 5mph cross wind. Is the 162amax that good of a bullet?
</div></div>

Using your velocities and Brian Litz's BC's for both bullets, I have the 180gr Hybrid 4.5" better at 1000 in 5mph x-wind. And the 162gr Amax 14.5" flatter. This is via JBM.

 

[bohem]

Re: 162 AMAX vs the heavies in 7mm!

They're an excellent, highly repeatable bullet. So are the Bergers.

I have both and shoot both from my 7mm Creedmoor and my 7/300WSM.

The question you need to ask yourself, and be totally honest about it, is "Can I shoot the difference in performance or should I spend more time behind the trigger practicing so that there is a real reason to worry over 4" of total wind difference out there?"

Once you can accurately assess your ability, as a shooter, to see that difference on target then you can look more appropriately at the miniscule performance differences that separate out the various bullet offerings from the big 3.

 

[Chiller]

Re: 162 AMAX vs the heavies in 7mm!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bohem</div><div class="ubbcode-body">They're an excellent, highly repeatable bullet. So are the Bergers.

I have both and shoot both from my 7mm Creedmoor and my 7/300WSM.

The question you need to ask yourself, and be totally honest about it, is "Can I shoot the difference in performance or should I spend more time behind the trigger practicing so that there is a real reason to worry over 4" of total wind difference out there?"

Once you can accurately assess your ability, as a shooter, to see that difference on target then you can look more appropriately at the miniscule performance differences that separate out the various bullet offerings from the big 3. </div></div>

Wise words and a tough pill for many to swallow

 

[turbo54]

Re: 162 AMAX vs the heavies in 7mm!

Bohem: What velocity are you achieving, with how much of what powder, using the 180s in the 7CM?

 

[jbailey]

Re: 162 AMAX vs the heavies in 7mm!

Ok, well here is a thought-

16" plate at 1000yds. Aiming center mass cuts your windage error budget in half, meaning you have 8" of windage to play with. Missing 5mph of wind means over 50% of your error budget is gone with the 162gr vs the 180gr. And most rifles have another 0.5moa of "error" in them, meaning just normal dispersion in group size eats up a good bit more of the error budget. So you need a balls-on perfect trigger pull with the 162gr, whereas a 180gr has more forgiveness.

Missing 5mph of x-wind is a lot however, more likely most shooters can call wind to 3mph, which is 2-3" of error in the 162gr vs the 180gr at 1000yds, reducing the 180gr's advantage.

Having played with the 180grainers once at long range I was amazed at the group size possible at 1000yds. Bullet splashes right on top of each other were boringly easy, whereas the guys I was shooting with 308's and even 6.5mm were all over the place. Those bullets are dominating F-class for a real reason.

So I agree with Josh, but boy I had fun with those 180grainers --Thank you Berger!!!!

 

[bohem]

Re: 162 AMAX vs the heavies in 7mm!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bohem: What velocity are you achieving, with how much of what powder, using the 180s in the 7CM? </div></div>

25" barrel, 7.5tw (it's a hunting/cull rifle that I shoot very heavy custom lead at subsonic speeds)

I think that faster than usual twist rate is having a detrimental effect on my MV's as I'm getting 2575 from the 180 Hybrids when the 9tw that another shooters has at 25" is going around 2630-2650 prior to melonite.

Admittedly I have precious little data on this barrel though, it was given a 45rd breakin with 180 Bergers and it's out for SBN right now. I need to do more work with it to give you anything more than that.

I didn't load them super hot, I used H4350. I have RL17 and 8208 XBR waiting for when I get it back and reassembled.

 

[turbo54]

Re: 162 AMAX vs the heavies in 7mm!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JamesBailey</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ok, well here is a thought-

16" plate at 1000yds. Aiming center mass cuts your windage error budget in half, meaning you have 8" of windage to play with. Missing 5mph of wind means over 50% of your error budget is gone with the 162gr vs the 180gr. And most rifles have another 0.5moa of "error" in them, meaning just normal dispersion in group size eats up a good bit more of the error budget. So you need a balls-on perfect trigger pull with the 162gr, whereas a 180gr has more forgiveness.

Missing 5mph of x-wind is a lot however, more likely most shooters can call wind to 3mph, which is 2-3" of error in the 162gr vs the 180gr at 1000yds, reducing the 180gr's advantage.

Having played with the 180grainers once at long range I was amazed at the group size possible at 1000yds. Bullet splashes right on top of each other were boringly easy, whereas the guys I was shooting with 308's and even 6.5mm were all over the place. Those bullets are dominating F-class for a real reason.

So I agree with Josh, but boy I had fun with those 180grainers --Thank you Berger!!!!

</div></div>

More food for thought is the "forgiveness" in ranging error the 162 provides on account of its flatness. The longer danger space of the 162 is a real advantage for UKD shooting.

If my barrel liked the 162s, I'd use them for tactical matches where 99% of all shots are inside 1000 yards, and 80% of all shots are inside 750.

I'm NOT disagreeing with you. You are 100% correct in your assessment of improved wind performance and its forgiveness.

Now, for KD use, particularly high power or F class, where you get the chance to really get your elevation dialed, the 162 has zero advantage!

 

[turbo54]

Re: 162 AMAX vs the heavies in 7mm!

This seems like a good time/place to drag the forthcoming Berger 195s into the discussion!

I again contend for tactical/UKD use, you'd better be able to drive the 195s HARD (2850+) to really gain a distinct ballistic advantage.

 

[jbailey]

Re: 162 AMAX vs the heavies in 7mm!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> More food for thought is the "forgiveness" in ranging error the 162 provides on account of its flatness. The longer danger space of the 162 is a real advantage for UKD shooting.

If my barrel liked the 162s, I'd use them for tactical matches where 99% of all shots are inside 1000 yards, and 80% of all shots are inside 750.

I'm NOT disagreeing with you. You are 100% correct in your assessment of improved wind performance and its forgiveness.

Now, for KD use, particularly high power or F class, where you get the chance to really get your elevation dialed, the 162 has zero advantage! </div></div>

Yes, more good "food for thought". I did run the "danger zone" of the 180gr vs the 162gr at the MVs cited and the same 16" plate I was using the in "windage zone" math.

Assuming 1,000ft D.A.:
At 700yds, a 180gr Berger aimed center mass of a 16" plate has a danger zone of 43yds; the 162gr Amax has a danger zone of 48yds.

At 1000yds, a 180gr Berger aimed center mass of a 16" plate has a danger zone of 24yds; the 162gr has a danger zone of 26yds.

Now, I will say that most long range matches I have attended have a bigger vertical target dimension and a smaller horizontal dimension, meaning there is more "foregiveness" in a ranging error than a windage error. Plus wind is always changing whereas the target tends to same at the same range. Not saying I would always perfer the slower but slippery 180gr, just thinking most of the time it would result in more first or second round hits.

 

[turbo54]

Re: 162 AMAX vs the heavies in 7mm!

James, nice work.

I didn't realize the difference was so small.

My danger space is pretty much moot.

Thanks!

 

[Rifle Barrel Blanks]

Re: 162 AMAX vs the heavies in 7mm!

I used them in a .284 in for a long time! Awesome bullet, way cheaper than everything else too!!

Out to 1000 yards, nothing beats it really, after that, a big 180 VLD hybrid will take over slightly

 

[Jon Lester]

Re: 162 AMAX vs the heavies in 7mm!

I have had great success with the 162 in a long action 284 where I can break 3 k. With them. But my WSM just won't run them. I ordered a load of the Sierra 180 hoping it will stack them like it does the bergers.