Help,Stevens 200 with AI mag, won't feed 80gr

[armorpl8chikn]

Just finished building a Stevens 200.
It started life as a 243 and I upgraded the barrel and stock, wasn't happy...yawn.
Started to make it a Creedmoor and scratched the idea.
Decided to turn it into a 223. That is one of the cool things about these things right?
Sent my B&C stock to CDI for bottom metal and a magazine. Quick turnaround, quality work, and a very reasonable price.
Denutted the action and put on a #6 taper Shilen Select Match barrel on cut to 21" and a proper surface ground .250" recoil lug. Rifle basix trigger KG Guncote...the works.

My smith ran several full mags of Black Hills 77gr and varios other factory ammo through her without a single hickup...looking good so far.

Took her to the range last Friday with some ammo loaded up for testing. Lapua brass, Varget, and 80gr SMKs set .020" off the lands. Every single round nosed in at 6 oclock on the chamber just an RCH from feeding in the chamber. I fiddled with the mag with no luck. No matter what we tried and there were several of us including my smith we couldn't get them to feed. Admittedly the AI mag fits a bit loose in the bottom metal but it is not particularly offputting and I assume this is how they are supposed to fit. As I say...no problems feeding factory ammo.

I was in a foul, foul mood all weekedn, and even took it out of the stock and attempted to sell the stock and bottom metal at Saturday's match, no takers...not even any lookers.

I have resolved to fix this feeding problem and I have Googled the hell out of 223 feeding problems with no results that fit my needs. My loaded rounds are 2.416" OAL.

I have surmised that if I canted the bottom metal just a bit in the rear the ammo would feed. I am currently waiting on a new mag from CDI to test this theory. I will refrain from elaborating on what happened to the original mag.

If you have any ideas please let me know.

 

[aubie515]

Re: Help,Stevens 200 with AI mag, won't feed 80gr

Do you think it could be the longer 80gr bullet with the mag? I know that most 77 and up 224 bullets are too long for mags (AR15).

 

[armorpl8chikn]

Re: Help,Stevens 200 with AI mag, won't feed 80gr

The bullets fit in the mag fine. If a cartridge fits in a mag it should feed. Normal length ammo will feed in this rifle including 77gr ammo loaded normal mag length. There is no doubt that the 80gr bullet appears to be the problem. However, there is more than enough space and feeding room.

My point is here that if I wanted a gun that I was limited to a length of 2.26", I would have just built an AR. The big selling point of converting a Savage to 223 is the theory that you can load much longer ammo in the AI mag and also in the modified Savage box mag.

I can't believe I am the only person to ever experience this. I have some fixes in mind, but don't want to have to reinvent the wheel, especially if someone else has been there done that.

 

[turbo54]

Re: Help,Stevens 200 with AI mag, won't feed 80gr

When attempting to feed these cartridges, are they on their way up and in - THEN nosedive...

or...

Are they feeding straight forward and running into the breechface?

 

[armorpl8chikn]

Re: Help,Stevens 200 with AI mag, won't feed 80gr

No nosediving involved. They feed straight into the breechface. When I push up on the mag, same thing.

I believe the angle of the bottom metal is slightly off. It would appear, I am the only person ever to have experienced this phenomenon. Actually I was positive someone else had experienced this problem.

 

[turbo54]

Re: Help,Stevens 200 with AI mag, won't feed 80gr

So it sounds like the shorter cartridges have the chance to kinda "tip up" to make it into the chamber, before the meplat hits the breechface?

I've gotta assume you've already tried this...but...

Have you tried tweaking the forward 1/4 or 1/3 of the feedlips open a little, to give the cartridges a bit more aggressive "nose up" attitude?

How much clearance is there between the bottom of the bolt and the top of the magazine? What I'm getting at, is, is there room to move the magazine up a little in relation to the action? Or, the entire length of the feedlips may be able to be splayed open a little more (if they'll still hold the cartridges)to allow the top cartridge to sit a bit higher. If moving the whole magazine up will fix the issue, you can either have Jeff@CDI re-inlet your stock a bit deeper, or ask him to send you a new mag release lever that's a bit long, so that the mag "clinks in" higher up.

Just some thoughts.

 

[Sidk]

Re: Help,Stevens 200 with AI mag, won't feed 80gr

never mind miss read

 

[armorpl8chikn]

Re: Help,Stevens 200 with AI mag, won't feed 80gr

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So it sounds like the shorter cartridges have the chance to kinda "tip up" to make it into the chamber, before the meplat hits the breechface?

I've gotta assume you've already tried this...but...

Have you tried tweaking the forward 1/4 or 1/3 of the feedlips open a little, to give the cartridges a bit more aggressive "nose up" attitude? <span style="color: #CC0000">The only way you will tweak the feedlips on a polymer AI 223 mag is with a knife, yes I did and no it didn't help.</span>
How much clearance is there between the bottom of the bolt and the top of the magazine? What I'm getting at, is, is there room to move the magazine up a little in relation to the action? Or, the entire length of the feedlips may be able to be splayed open a little more (if they'll still hold the cartridges)to allow the top cartridge to sit a bit higher. If moving the whole magazine up will fix the issue, you can either have Jeff@CDI re-inlet your stock a bit deeper, or ask him to send you a new mag release lever that's a bit long, so that the mag "clinks in" higher up. <span style="color: #FF0000">The magazine is as High as it will go without binding the bolt. Yes I splayed the feedlips, this ultimately ended in a ruined magazine and still unable to feed 80gr pills.</span>
Just some thoughts. </div></div>

When I get my hands on another good magazine, which will likely be next week, I plan to use a washer to tilt the rear of the bottom metal down enough to cant the magazine. The bolt engages about .125" of the case now and that is way more than enough to drop the rear a bit.

 

[MDM]

Re: Help,Stevens 200 with AI mag, won't feed 80gr

Any chance your bullet tips are getting caught under the feed ramp? If so, a 1/4" grinding wheel and dremel will fix that in about a minute. Just notch your feed ramp back to where the mag seats under the ramp for max clearance.

 

[armorpl8chikn]

Re: Help,Stevens 200 with AI mag, won't feed 80gr

Feed ramp? The bullets feed way above the feed ramp. This is a short action 243 that has been switched to 223. The cartridges come no where close to the feed ramp.

 

[chakup]

Re: Help,Stevens 200 with AI mag, won't feed 80gr

Post a pic of the jam, that may help alot. Get a good shot of WHERE in the cycle of the bolt it hangs, where the bullet is hanging up on and a close up also showing the Mag/Bolt/Bullet/Barrel interface. this may help give us a better idea of what's going on.

 

[Hawk45]

Re: Help,Stevens 200 with AI mag, won't feed 80gr

Sell your 80gr bullets and get some 75gr that feed. Problem solved

 

[armorpl8chikn]

Re: Help,Stevens 200 with AI mag, won't feed 80gr

I am getting to the bottom of the problem. Back to the smith this evening. He happened to have an AI mag we could use. Ran black hills fine, ran 55gr Remingtons fine. Put some of my 75gr Hornady OTMs in and jam. Yes the feedramp is part of the problem. I thought it was completly missing the ramp but I was wrong. The long bullet does not allow the cartridge shoulder to engage the feed ramp, before the bullet noses the chamber at 6 oclock. It seems these rifles are extremly intolerant to bullet shape. Sierra blitz kings seated wayyy long even fed. Next I will load up some 75gr AMax's and see how they work. I have over 1000 75AMax bullets so I have my fingers crossed. Bergers have a very shrp tip and I have some of those as well, they are on the try list.
Shimming the bottom metal did not help at all...made it worse actually.
Upon further digging I did finally turn up some info on other forums, I was googling the wrong words evidently. I found this problem to be very common.
If shit comes to sweat I will just stick to 77gr bullets designed for loading mag length. It isn't the end of the world by any means but is a bit disapointing.

Now that I have the feeding problem figured out I will be bedding the action next.

Thanks for the help and suggestions.