necksizing and no trimming?

[njnicky]

Hello,
I like the rest of the world hate trimming and just can seem to get into a really expensive electric trimmer. My loads aren't generating same hole accuracy but they still beat the heck out of factory loads. I just neck size once fired brass and I dont trim a thing, just make sure the brass is within sammi spec. Lets just say I did get a good trimmer or just bit the bullet and hand trimmed with my lyman, would I get much better results? I just blast steel, fruit, and occasionally paper. What do you guys think?

 

[427Cobra]

Re: necksizing and no trimming?

First off NS only is a bad idea, a properly setup FL die will produce ammo that is just as accurate, and you never have to worry about showing up at the range/match/hunt with ammo that won't chamber. As for trimming I love my Giraud Trimmer, but the tool to determine trim length is sold by Sinclair, it's called a Chamber Length Gauge, cheap and easy to use, 99% of the people here trim there brass back too far, while 2.005 works on a 308, it's too short, most 308's have a trim length of 2.025ish, that is .010 from the end of the chamber, and just about nobody on Snipers Hide can shoot the difference from 2.005 to 2.025 in brass length. Hand cracking trimmers do suck, and the ones with pilots are IMHO really suck because shavings build up on the pilot and gall the inside of the necks, so get the tool measure the chamber, and don't bother trimming until your brass is .010 from the end.

 

[MitchAlsup]

Re: necksizing and no trimming?

I NO size most of the time. Like 427 says, NO sizing is for brass life and not necessarily for precision. Unlike 427 I find this increases brass life at such a small penalty in groups size that it make sense (for me!).

While I do trim each reload cycle, most of the time I cut such a small amount from the neck that It did not mater if I trimmed or not. For me, I stick the Lee trimmer and mandrel into the case give it a single turn, and I'm done. (2 seconds hand operated). It actually takes more time to chamfer and deburr than to do the trim. You are going to want to do the chamfer (because this is what lets the bullet pass into the neck easily) anyways.

If all you are interested in is blasting ammo you an pretty much just load and go without any of the steps we precision reloaded go through. However if you ARE interested in getting group sizes from sub 1 inch towards sub 1/2 inch some of this stuff does mater. I am not enough of an expert to ferret out steps which steps gain accuracy versus which steps just avoid loosing accuracy.

 

[njnicky]

Re: necksizing and no trimming?

sounds good boys, thanks for the info, I am definetely going to check ou that length gauge at sinclair. So 427 your saying that trimming should or could be done only when your within .010 of the top end of your chamber length??

 

[njnicky]

Re: necksizing and no trimming?

thank you

 

[427Cobra]

Re: necksizing and no trimming?

Yes .010 from the end, BR shooters do .005, but they also shoot the same 20 pieces of brass for hundreds of reloads each, there brass is extremely work hardened, so it doesn't grow that much. I respect Mitch and his opinions, what your seeing is two different people who share the same quest, we just do it in different ways.

 

[Deadshot2]

Re: necksizing and no trimming?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes .010 from the end, BR shooters do .005, but they also shoot the same 20 pieces of brass for hundreds of reloads each, there brass is extremely work hardened, so it doesn't grow that much. I respect Mitch and his opinions, what your seeing is two different people who share the same quest, we just do it in different ways. </div></div>

BR shooters are also shooting rifles with custom chambers. In these rifles the brass doesn't expand much more than .001"-.002".

By no means are BR shooter's cases getting work hardened like those shot in factory chambers and are constantly expanded then sized by amounts an average of 5 times those amounts.

If the OP doesn't want to trim, he should then just invest in a case gauge to make sure that the finished load doesn't have a case so long that it "pinches" the bullet when it extends beyond the end of he chamber.


Accuracy is more affected by neck tension, not necessarily neck length.

 

[427Cobra]

Re: necksizing and no trimming?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Deadshot2</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes .010 from the end, BR shooters do .005, but they also shoot the same 20 pieces of brass for hundreds of reloads each, there brass is extremely work hardened, so it doesn't grow that much. I respect Mitch and his opinions, what your seeing is two different people who share the same quest, we just do it in different ways. </div></div>



Accuracy is more affected by neck tension, not necessarily neck length. </div></div>

My point exactly, I'm going to barrow this.

 

[MitchAlsup]

Re: necksizing and no trimming?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Deadshot2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Accuracy is more affected by neck tension, not necessarily neck length. </div></div>

Agreed.

Basically as long as the neck is long enough to hold the projectile well (and concentric); the neck is long enough
AND
as long as the neck is short enough not to interfere with the end of the throat durring the firing cycle; the neck is short enough.

That is the constraint set.

 

[Bennybone]

Re: necksizing and no trimming?

I have seen guys state that they tension the neck to a specific number such as .035 , how are they gauging the neck tension?

I was using a Lee FCD for my semi auto handloads but then I stopped using it because I am not consistent enough on applying pressure so I figured I was maybe messing up my whole quest for consistency without being able to see a readout or gauge.

What tool is there that might be handheld and under 50 bucks???

Thx,

BB

 

[18Echo]

Re: necksizing and no trimming?

I've been loading some virgin LC 70 recently. Even though its virgin it needed to be annealed. It was surprisingly even on neck wall thickness but I did neck turn it all to .015. I would have only about one half of the neck get cut. Then I use a redding comp. bushing neck die to set my neck tension. I should also mention that I use a Sinclair neck mandrel and die to get the necks good and circular first. As far as length I usually cut all my .308 brass to 2.00 and call it good.

 

[Deadshot2]

Re: necksizing and no trimming?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bennybone</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have seen guys state that they tension the neck to a specific number such as .035 , how are they gauging the neck tension?

</div></div>

They aren't exactly gauging the "tension" in the traditional use of the word. They are merely expressing the difference in measurements between bullet OD and the case neck ID. This all is based on the assumption that each case will have the same metallic characteristics so this interference fit will yield the same "tension".

Unless one has a collet puller and a means of measuring the actual energy required to pull the bullet out of the case then it's all based on the assumption that equal ID/OD measurements that yield a uniform amount of "interference fit" will yield the same required effort to pull a bullet (or expel in the rifle).

 

[Bennybone]

Re: necksizing and no trimming?

Thanks Deadshot, I assumed I was missing something here.

BB

 

[njnicky]

Re: necksizing and no trimming?

excellent information gents, Thank you.