Re: Any H37 reticle fans? Researching reticles
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Redmanss</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: StoopidSlow</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For target shooters who dial, your going to get negative answers. If you talk with military shooters you going to get positive answers.
Your not going to always have time to dial in tactical environments. I have only met a handful of military snipers, and the ones I did very rarely dialed, always used holds. Most units especially Marine Corps units, are using old hardware, and cant afford new scopes with Horus reticules, but the guys I know have shot through them in school and all loved them. Horus reticules just make it easier.
Some people thought Magpuls precision rifle stuff was gimmicky, but it's no secret Todd Hodnett is a smart guy. He teaches tactical precision rifle deployment, and is a firm believer in the Horus reticules. Look into what he has to say and It might help your decision.
I'm not saying you need an H37, I'm just saying it has it's place. </div></div> Are you an 8541/0317? If not then you have absolutely no ground to stand on when it comes to what Marine Scout Snipers use.
I have a fair amount of time down range and I think Horus are shit. Maybe the Marine Corps didn't go with it because Scout Snipers like me and all the rest that were in the STA platoons when the new M40A3 and replacement to the Unertl was being decided upon wanted something that works. Christmas tree style reticles were presented to us and there was a resounding "what the hell is that cluster fuck" heard. Seems Marine Snipers are still doing pretty well without them too.
I'll take a P4 or TMR (or similar variation thereof) any day of the week over a Horus, and did what the Horus claimed could only be done with their reticle just fine back in my days behind the Unertl and a mildot reticle. I have and will continue to choose plain mildot over Horus every time. Yes, I've tried them, given them a full shakedown and promptly picked back up my P4 when I was done, happy to be back at home again.
Reticle holds from 100-1000yds in wind without touching either turret isn't that hard at all if you know what you're doing on the trigger and you put the time into your training. We would drill max point blank shooting in my platoon, and it was still taught in 2001 when I went through the Advanced Course at Quantico. It's when shooters don't put the time into the first shots and think some kind of gimmick of a reticle is going to make the difference is what really gets me.
Take the $500 upcharge for the Horus, buy a case of ammo from Copper Creek or Southwest, and put the time into the range for a solid week. Work on your trigger control and wind calls versus follow-up shots. Tweak your positions. Have two setups you want a Horus with? Put the money into ammo and formal training.
If you aren't in the desert or other area where you actually reliably see the splash of a miss, you aren't going to be able to hold off anyhow. Shooting a soggy Range 4 in March on Quantico taught us that well enough too. Running the drills without a spotter where you're virtually blind on splash will make sure you work that first shot as best as possible. Again, work on your wind calls and trigger control.
Of course training isn't nearly as cool as showing off your kit on the range or Sniper's Hide when everyone is seeking to have their egos stroked when they're having buyers remorse. You are right though, the Horus does have its place. </div></div>
I have no ground to stand on? All I did is relay what I had heard, which I made very clear in my statement.
You sound like you've been in a while if you were shooting in Quantico in 01'. With respect, how should I be addressing you? Gunny? Msgt? The Corps has never been big on embracing new doctrine or technology. Whats worked for a long time doesn't often get changed [nor does it need to be], but it would be foolish for anyone to think that doesn't mean it can not be improved upon. Is Horus the answer? I'm not qualified to make a comment, nor did I imply I was. The Marines I have talked to, thought it was a useful tool. But like you said, they get it done just fine with what they have now.
I'm not trying to make enemies here, I do NOT own anything with a Horus reticule. I have shot only a single weapon with a Horus reticule. There is a lot going on in there, but it did all make sense.
