I'm thinking of ordering a 1050 this week to load 77 SMK for .223. How consistent is the OAL using something like a Forster die, and how minimal is runout? Also, how is the powder throw's consistency using their powder thrower with a short stick powder like 8208? I'm thinking that maybe I could get rid of my Hornady Ammo Plant, and use locking rings on the dies so that I would only need two tool heads; one with powder measure for rifle, and one for pistol.
- Thread starter gimpy
- Start date
Re: Consistency of Progressive Reloads
My experience with "stick" powders in Dillon powder measures is that they aren't always consistent in how they flow through the slide.
Some are OK and others are very inconsistent.
For loading .223 on my XL-650 I have resorted to AA2230 and now CFE223 and get charges that are extremely consistent. Right down to the same tolerance as my scale +/- .1 gr.
8208 may not be as troublesome as Varget but it's still not in the "metering class" with the ball powders.
I recently tried some CFE223 in my .308 and found it to be every bit as accurate as Varget.
My experience with "stick" powders in Dillon powder measures is that they aren't always consistent in how they flow through the slide.
Some are OK and others are very inconsistent.
For loading .223 on my XL-650 I have resorted to AA2230 and now CFE223 and get charges that are extremely consistent. Right down to the same tolerance as my scale +/- .1 gr.
8208 may not be as troublesome as Varget but it's still not in the "metering class" with the ball powders.
I recently tried some CFE223 in my .308 and found it to be every bit as accurate as Varget.
Re: Consistency of Progressive Reloads
I don't have experience with the 1050, but I use a 650 for all ammo I load except 338LM.
I also use Forster dies.
I maintain +/- .002" OAL, measured from casehead to ogive.
I've done testng with the dillon powder measure with Varget, 8208, and H335. I threw 40 charges with each. Here are the results:
8208: Extreme Spread=.36gr (+/- .18gr)
Varget: ES=.50gr (+/- .25gr)
H335: ES=.15gr (+/- .08gr)
I don't have experience with the 1050, but I use a 650 for all ammo I load except 338LM.
I also use Forster dies.
I maintain +/- .002" OAL, measured from casehead to ogive.
I've done testng with the dillon powder measure with Varget, 8208, and H335. I threw 40 charges with each. Here are the results:
8208: Extreme Spread=.36gr (+/- .18gr)
Varget: ES=.50gr (+/- .25gr)
H335: ES=.15gr (+/- .08gr)
Re: Consistency of Progressive Reloads
I load 30-06 on a S1050 and have used 4895/4064/Varget for my powders.
I've gone to pulling my rounds after the powder drop and trickling up to desired weight on my scale. The stick pulls varied .5 gns sometimes greater.
When I drop ball powders for pistol (W231) the pulls are within .1 gn.
I am impressed with the seating consistency using a Dillon seater. Measured with a Hornady comparator OAL to ogive is within a thou or so and COAL always rounds to my desired length. I plan to get a Forster mic seater just for ease of adjustments with different projectiles. Regards runout I dont have equip to measure with but cant eyeball any.
My S1050 is a great machine. The reason I suck is not because of what the Dillon drops out.
I load 30-06 on a S1050 and have used 4895/4064/Varget for my powders.
I've gone to pulling my rounds after the powder drop and trickling up to desired weight on my scale. The stick pulls varied .5 gns sometimes greater.
When I drop ball powders for pistol (W231) the pulls are within .1 gn.
I am impressed with the seating consistency using a Dillon seater. Measured with a Hornady comparator OAL to ogive is within a thou or so and COAL always rounds to my desired length. I plan to get a Forster mic seater just for ease of adjustments with different projectiles. Regards runout I dont have equip to measure with but cant eyeball any.
My S1050 is a great machine. The reason I suck is not because of what the Dillon drops out.
Re: Consistency of Progressive Reloads
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> H335: ES=.15gr (+/- .08gr) </div></div>
Same thing I have found with the Dillon measure and 335, although your data is much better than mine
As far as runnout, I found if you align the dies before locking the jamb nut, or use the forster style pinch nuts you will get noticeably better results.
Kirk R
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> H335: ES=.15gr (+/- .08gr) </div></div>
Same thing I have found with the Dillon measure and 335, although your data is much better than mine
As far as runnout, I found if you align the dies before locking the jamb nut, or use the forster style pinch nuts you will get noticeably better results.
Kirk R
Re: Consistency of Progressive Reloads
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gimpy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks guys. Turbo54, are those charges after polishing the metal in the measure, or the way it came? </div></div>
As delivered, no mods.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gimpy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks guys. Turbo54, are those charges after polishing the metal in the measure, or the way it came? </div></div>
As delivered, no mods.
Re: Consistency of Progressive Reloads
I polished the bar and the funnel and I was getting my .5+/-. I didnt convert back to the old spring as some recommend but I did use a slow steady pull with a tap to settle.
What I found helped some was going to the large rifle bar (not the magnum)instead of the standard bar. The cut of the chamber is more like a rectangle instead of having the taper at the end and I think helps to let the sticks settle into the chamber.
I was loading 30-06 though and near the max for the chamber on the standard rifle bar. Using the large bar may not matter in .223/5.56 as the loads will be closer to the median capacity of the standard bar.
I polished the bar and the funnel and I was getting my .5+/-. I didnt convert back to the old spring as some recommend but I did use a slow steady pull with a tap to settle.
What I found helped some was going to the large rifle bar (not the magnum)instead of the standard bar. The cut of the chamber is more like a rectangle instead of having the taper at the end and I think helps to let the sticks settle into the chamber.
I was loading 30-06 though and near the max for the chamber on the standard rifle bar. Using the large bar may not matter in .223/5.56 as the loads will be closer to the median capacity of the standard bar.
Re: Consistency of Progressive Reloads
Using a Forster Ultra Seater im getting a max .0025" runout with my 550. That was one round out of 30 checked,the majority being .001" with about 5 flatliners, oal is 001-002 varience. I'm pretty impressed with this die for off the shelf.
Using a Forster Ultra Seater im getting a max .0025" runout with my 550. That was one round out of 30 checked,the majority being .001" with about 5 flatliners, oal is 001-002 varience. I'm pretty impressed with this die for off the shelf.
Re: Consistency of Progressive Reloads
Slightly off topic....
Why are you ditching the Hornady Ammo Plant?
Slightly off topic....
Why are you ditching the Hornady Ammo Plant?
Re: Consistency of Progressive Reloads
Ah. Understood, sir.
Ah. Understood, sir.
Re: Consistency of Progressive Reloads
Using surplus IMR4895 in my 650 for .308 and .30-06 match loads, I can't detect any difference across a chronograph between the 650 loads and test loads using weighed powder charges.
Same experience using H335 for my varminting .223 loads.
I have not checked concentricity or runout, since the loads are accurate in my Garand, my M1A and my AR. (If it ain't broke ...)
I use Redding and Forster dies in my Dillon.
Cheers,
Richard
Using surplus IMR4895 in my 650 for .308 and .30-06 match loads, I can't detect any difference across a chronograph between the 650 loads and test loads using weighed powder charges.
Same experience using H335 for my varminting .223 loads.
I have not checked concentricity or runout, since the loads are accurate in my Garand, my M1A and my AR. (If it ain't broke ...)
I use Redding and Forster dies in my Dillon.
Cheers,
Richard
Re: Consistency of Progressive Reloads
Everything I have read supports what RG1911 finds as far as the rifles I shoot; 30-06 from - M1 garand and M1903. Plus or minus within that.5 range will not make a big difference on paper.
My most recent barrel is 1952 (M1) and my 1903's are 1931 and 1932 dated.
The only reason I concern myself with weighing each charge for these guns is because I need to eliminate the excuse of blaming my powder measure for my crappy performance and the production actually suits reloading after I put the kids to bed and how often I get to the range.
If you are shooting F Class you are probably already doing something different. If you are shooting NRA/John Garand matches you will probably be fine. I'm guessing you would als be okay for tactical comps.
That being said consider your skills too. I cant keep my figure eight tight enough to take advantage of the most beautifully consistent rounds ever built.
Everything I have read supports what RG1911 finds as far as the rifles I shoot; 30-06 from - M1 garand and M1903. Plus or minus within that.5 range will not make a big difference on paper.
My most recent barrel is 1952 (M1) and my 1903's are 1931 and 1932 dated.
The only reason I concern myself with weighing each charge for these guns is because I need to eliminate the excuse of blaming my powder measure for my crappy performance and the production actually suits reloading after I put the kids to bed and how often I get to the range.
If you are shooting F Class you are probably already doing something different. If you are shooting NRA/John Garand matches you will probably be fine. I'm guessing you would als be okay for tactical comps.
That being said consider your skills too. I cant keep my figure eight tight enough to take advantage of the most beautifully consistent rounds ever built.
