Would you worry?

[cast1]

I cleaned 56 of my once fired lapua 338lm cases in my ultrasonic and I read somewhere on here where a member threw them in a toaster oven on low heat to dry them out. I set my little oven on about 180 degrees and put my cases in sitting on a broiler pan insert. Came back about 40 minutes later and they all looked sort of oxidized and dark, almost annealed. I threw them back in the ultrasonic with 1:100 citranox and the color disappeared in about 30 seconds. My toaster oven will only do 500 degrees maxed out and brass isn't supposed to anneal until about 600 or 650 f.

Would you guys be worried about the integrity of those cases?

 

[armorpl8chikn]

Re: Would you worry?

Yes.
The initial and rapid heat soak that emanates from the elements in a toaster oven far exceeds 500 deg. The brass will be the first thing in the oven to reach temp, besides the elements, as evidenced by strong discoloration.
Had you preheated the oven you may not have ruined them, but being such a small space even that may not have helped you. If you preheat a large oven to 200 deg and then put them in it is pretty safe....HOWEVER. Any department store sells a gadget called a hair dryer. It is a marvelous invention and it will not anneal your brass unless you are short bus special, and even then I think it would be difficult to ruin brass with one. Rinse your brass in alcohol and shake and pat dry, then remove to a spot where you can blow them dry.

 

[sawgunner2001]

Re: Would you worry?

This would be one of the reasons I'm still tumbling with corn cob media.

 

[former naval person]

Re: Would you worry?

Yes. As armor says...toss them, after beating the mouth shut so that some unknowing person tries to salvage them, not knowing that they have been overheated. Or, you can load them and distribute them to the Taliban. Sorta like the "modified munitions" distributed in 'Nam.

 

[Helmet]

Re: Would you worry?

I don't think it got hot enough to cause a problem, but it would still make me nervous. Brass needs to be able to expand and if it's been heated too much it can't do that anymore and then you're going to have a problem. I don't think 180 would cause that to happen, but if it did or they got hotter then you realize then it's going to be a BIG problem with those big rounds. Personally I wouldn't use them. It's not worth it.

 

[High Binder]

Re: Would you worry?


I'm a Tribologist which means I deal with friction and wear between metals everyday and work creating lubrication systems. Metallurgy/chemistry is my realm. Now that being said, I don't know how many more times I can say this as I've typed this out countless times in the past but here goes:

Annealing is as much about <span style="text-decoration: underline">TIME</span> as it is temp. It would take months to anneal B7 at 180 degrees. The color you saw was simple oxidation and has <span style="text-decoration: underline">ZERO</span> effect on the integrity of your brass. At 400 degrees it would take nearly an hour, at 700 it takes seconds you can even anneal brass at 4000 degrees but again TIME is just as important as temp. Your brass is just fine but if you don't want to shoot them I'll take them off you. The toaster drying method you took is perfectly safe. If you want to avoid oxidation in the future dry your brass in alcohol instead which is my preferred method as it's nearly instant.

 

[High Binder]

Re: Would you worry?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: armorpl8chikn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes.
The initial and rapid heat soak that emanates from the elements in a toaster oven far exceeds 500 deg. </div></div>

That's not how ovens work...

 

[High Binder]

Re: Would you worry?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ArmchairElite</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't think it got hot enough to cause a problem, but it would still make me nervous. <span style="color: #FF0000">Brass needs to be able to expand and if it's been heated too much it can't do that anymore</span> and then you're going to have a problem. I don't think 180 would cause that to happen, but if it did or they got hotter then you realize then it's going to be a BIG problem with those big rounds. Personally I wouldn't use them. It's not worth it. </div></div>

You're right in that it didn't get hot enough to cause a problem but your reasoning is completely wrong.

 

[leadbullet]

Re: Would you worry?

you only need to dry them not cook them up, regular oven at 220 degree for 10 minutes is plenty to dry brass in the winter, in the summer, put them inside your car under the windshield and they'll dry up nicely with minimum tarnishing.

 

[tolnep]

Re: Would you worry?

i tumble. afterwards i thoroughly rinse then wrap in a towel, shake it a bit to get as much moisture out as possible, then put in colander and run an air dryer over the cases occasionally moving the brass. a few minutes of this and i dump to a dry towel. almost always totally dry and quickly.

one thing i do is grab a case by the head and whip it. any moisture left will 'spray' out on my exposed arm. this also should shake out any leftover pins, though none have ever been found this way but i dont want to shoot them with my bullets...

 

[cast1]

Re: Would you worry?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: High Binder</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I'm a Tribologist which means I deal with friction and wear between metals everyday and work creating lubrication systems. Metallurgy/chemistry is my realm. Now that being said, I don't know how many more times I can say this as I've typed this out countless times in the past but here goes:

Annealing is as much about <span style="text-decoration: underline">TIME</span> as it is temp. It would take months to anneal B7 at 180 degrees. The color you saw was simple oxidation and has <span style="text-decoration: underline">ZERO</span> effect on the integrity of your brass. At 400 degrees it would take nearly an hour, at 700 it takes seconds you can even anneal brass at 4000 degrees but again TIME is just as important as temp. Your brass is just fine but if you don't want to shoot them I'll take them off you. The toaster drying method you took is perfectly safe. If you want to avoid oxidation in the future dry your brass in alcohol instead which is my preferred method as it's nearly instant. </div></div>

Well, I sure as hell wish I had read that before I smashed the mouth shut on 50+ weight sorted cases. Ouch! I can afford brass, as painful as it is. It's not the money so much as it is the fact they were shooting really good out of my 98b and diminishes my number of cases in that batch. Ah well, guess I'll make a contribution to Bruno shooters tomorrow.

This brings me to a question. Do you guys still separate by lot number, or just case weight?

 

[Unknown]

Re: Would you worry?

I think that even if the guy with great knowledge says they are safe, I would take the road of caution. That is an awfully big round to have go sideways and blow up if it does go bad.

If you could find someone willing to test out 10 of the cases while you watch from a distance, then perhaps I might use the remaining cases. Otherwise, I always go on the side of caution.

When I first started annealing, I over softened the necks of some 308 and they would not consistently hold bullets. So I sized them, single loaded them, sized them again, and they ended up OK, but I only overdid the neck, not the important case head...

 

[Helmet]

Re: Would you worry?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: High Binder</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You're right in that it didn't get hot enough to cause a problem but your reasoning is completely wrong. </div></div>So much for my dream of becoming a mechanical engineer

. Maybe I got it backwards, too hard too soft whatever. The point is that I don't want the guy to blow his face off. Would it have probably been ok? Most likely. Sounds like you're pretty sure about it being safe. Still, if it were me, I wouldn't have risked it based on the severity of the consequences for being wrong. Perhaps if my job gave me the opportunity to look at the granular structure up close to see that there was no change I wouldn't be concerned. As for the rest of us who don't have this kind of first hand experience it seems reasonable to play it safe even if someone on the internet who most likely knows more disagrees with us.

If a doctor told you to do something over the internet that sounded risky or dangerous would you do it? Hey, they said they were a doctor. I'm in no way doubting that you are a Tribologist. I'm just saying that if it's me that will possibly be loosing his hands or his eyesight to 338 bomb going off in his face I'll just buy some new brass.

 

[High Binder]

Re: Would you worry?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cast1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Well, I sure as hell wish I had read that before I smashed the mouth shut on 50+ weight sorted cases. Ouch!

This brings me to a question. Do you guys still separate by lot number, or just case weight?

</div></div>

Oh man, that makes me sad. You should be getting about 10 or more shots out of that brass before it's toast.

As for the second part, I buy a huge lot of brass every-time I buy a new rifle, enough to cover the life of the barrel so my lot is the same. I also do not separate the cases by weight, I understand the logic behind it but I haven't found the need to do such sorting.

 

[High Binder]

Re: Would you worry?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ArmchairElite</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: High Binder</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You're right in that it didn't get hot enough to cause a problem but your reasoning is completely wrong. </div></div>

Would it have probably been ok? Most likely. Sounds like you're pretty sure about it being safe. Still, if it were me, I wouldn't have risked it based on the severity of the consequences for being wrong. Perhaps if my job gave me the opportunity to look at the granular structure up close to see that there was no change I wouldn't be concerned. As for the rest of us who don't have this kind of first hand experience it seems reasonable to play it safe even if someone on the internet who most likely knows more disagrees with us.
</div></div>

"When in doubt, toss it out" is sound advice as there is something to be said for being confident in your equipment. However, the bottom line is that baking your brass at 200 degrees for an hour or so is perfectly safe.

On a side note: It's not really me, i.e. "someone on the internet" (as you put it) saying it, it's simple physics. The data is out there and has been for centuries. I have done a lot of experiments with B7 and even posted a huge annealing thread with pics and data a few years ago but the science of annealing exists elsewhere and has for centuries. The info I'm relaying here can be found from countless other sources and is fact.