- Thread starter Xdm40guy
- Start date
Re: 6.8 or 300 blackout
The BO would be fine for 100-200yd kill shots on game or anything you would do with a 7.62X39 as they are close in performance. A BO SBR with a suppresor shooting subs is a awesome setup.
The 6.8 can reach out to 400yds, if the shooter can do their part. The 6.8 has more velocity and power. The 6.8 does well with short barrels also as seen with LWRC's Six8 rifle. Bison Armory has a version of the 6.8 that runs subs but also shoots supers well, it is called the "BSP".
The BO would be fine for 100-200yd kill shots on game or anything you would do with a 7.62X39 as they are close in performance. A BO SBR with a suppresor shooting subs is a awesome setup.
The 6.8 can reach out to 400yds, if the shooter can do their part. The 6.8 has more velocity and power. The 6.8 does well with short barrels also as seen with LWRC's Six8 rifle. Bison Armory has a version of the 6.8 that runs subs but also shoots supers well, it is called the "BSP".
Re: 6.8 or 300 blackout
what do you want to do with the rifle ? target shoot ? hunt ? home defense maybe?
those things all come into play . I have a 300 blackout and run it mainly suppressed . it is a solution to my 308 not running sub-sonics semi auto . deer , coyotes , armadillos , possums and coons are toast at 100 yds with subs . If I am going to hunt the open fields then my rock river 308 comes out to play.
If you want to stay with the smaller ar frame and are not going to use a suppresor then the 6.8 certainly has merit when hunting or self defense.
what do you want to do with the rifle ? target shoot ? hunt ? home defense maybe?
those things all come into play . I have a 300 blackout and run it mainly suppressed . it is a solution to my 308 not running sub-sonics semi auto . deer , coyotes , armadillos , possums and coons are toast at 100 yds with subs . If I am going to hunt the open fields then my rock river 308 comes out to play.
If you want to stay with the smaller ar frame and are not going to use a suppresor then the 6.8 certainly has merit when hunting or self defense.
Re: 6.8 or 300 blackout
I like the 300 but it really depends on what your going to use it for.
I like the 300 but it really depends on what your going to use it for.
Re: 6.8 or 300 blackout
Like already stated. I own both but it will really depend on what you really want to do with it. The blackout ballistics can be compared to the winchester 30/30 in range and shooting game. Mine is very accurate though but if you want extended range for say deer or yotes then I would say the 6.8 would be the better choice. Or just get both and you have all things covered..
Like already stated. I own both but it will really depend on what you really want to do with it. The blackout ballistics can be compared to the winchester 30/30 in range and shooting game. Mine is very accurate though but if you want extended range for say deer or yotes then I would say the 6.8 would be the better choice. Or just get both and you have all things covered..
Re: 6.8 or 300 blackout
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 346ci</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The 6.8 can reach out to 400yds, if the shooter can do their part. </div></div>
Curious as to what you mean by reach "out to 400yds". Do you mean accuracy degrades? Stopping power for hogs and the like? I've been shooting a stainless 18" Kotonics/Cardinal Armory (company is now defunct) out to 600 yards with 1MOA and 800 yards at 1.5 MOA, the latter figure is probably more of my lack of shooting skill. Granted, I do most of my shooting at 100-200, but still nice to know I can play games alongside the .308, even if I have more wind drift.
Not looking to start any back-and-forth, but genuinely curious as to why the 400 mark is mentioned specifically?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 346ci</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The 6.8 can reach out to 400yds, if the shooter can do their part. </div></div>
Curious as to what you mean by reach "out to 400yds". Do you mean accuracy degrades? Stopping power for hogs and the like? I've been shooting a stainless 18" Kotonics/Cardinal Armory (company is now defunct) out to 600 yards with 1MOA and 800 yards at 1.5 MOA, the latter figure is probably more of my lack of shooting skill. Granted, I do most of my shooting at 100-200, but still nice to know I can play games alongside the .308, even if I have more wind drift.
Not looking to start any back-and-forth, but genuinely curious as to why the 400 mark is mentioned specifically?
Re: 6.8 or 300 blackout
I kill the F out of hogs with my three 6.8s, up close and far away. Finding ammo can be tough if you don't reload, so I started and solved the problem. Recently went suppressed and love it. I've considered 300 BLK but who cares? I'm confident my 95gr Barnes TTSX bullets will kill anything I need to. I shoot with an EOtech XPS 3-0 so no magnification. I also just use an IR laser.
The pics in right link below are of me on the left and the hogs were at my place.......I took the pictures. Not that I particularly care......we run 6.8s though in those photos.
I kill the F out of hogs with my three 6.8s, up close and far away. Finding ammo can be tough if you don't reload, so I started and solved the problem. Recently went suppressed and love it. I've considered 300 BLK but who cares? I'm confident my 95gr Barnes TTSX bullets will kill anything I need to. I shoot with an EOtech XPS 3-0 so no magnification. I also just use an IR laser.
The pics in right link below are of me on the left and the hogs were at my place.......I took the pictures. Not that I particularly care......we run 6.8s though in those photos.
Re: 6.8 or 300 blackout
The 6.8 is plenty capable of killing stuff out to 500 yards, if you don't believe me go to the hunting section of the 6.8 forums, lots of guys there do it on a regular basis.
There are many loads that stay supersonic out to almost 1000 yards, the SSA 140gr. Berger ammunition is supersonic past 1000 yards, with a velocity of 2401fps (out of a 16" barrel). In terms of long range capabilities, the 6.8 is plenty capable and also generally has more energy than the 300BO (except when you get into SBR territory, where the 300BO gets an energy advantage due to its more efficient design), the 300BO is capable of shooting fairly well but it goes subsonic at around 600-700 yards, and is capable of taking game up to about 300 yards, its true advantage is being able to run subsonic rounds and still cycle the bolt, as opposed to the 6.8 which can't normally do that.
If you want a gun you can run quiet with a can in an SBR, get the 6.8, it'll be a lot of fun, if you're looking for something with decent long range capabilities (out to 1000 yards), go with the 6.8. I personally went the 6.8 route, since I wanted an AR for hunting, but also because I live in California and can't get a suppressor, so for me the advantages of the 300BO are gone.
The 6.8 is plenty capable of killing stuff out to 500 yards, if you don't believe me go to the hunting section of the 6.8 forums, lots of guys there do it on a regular basis.
There are many loads that stay supersonic out to almost 1000 yards, the SSA 140gr. Berger ammunition is supersonic past 1000 yards, with a velocity of 2401fps (out of a 16" barrel). In terms of long range capabilities, the 6.8 is plenty capable and also generally has more energy than the 300BO (except when you get into SBR territory, where the 300BO gets an energy advantage due to its more efficient design), the 300BO is capable of shooting fairly well but it goes subsonic at around 600-700 yards, and is capable of taking game up to about 300 yards, its true advantage is being able to run subsonic rounds and still cycle the bolt, as opposed to the 6.8 which can't normally do that.
If you want a gun you can run quiet with a can in an SBR, get the 6.8, it'll be a lot of fun, if you're looking for something with decent long range capabilities (out to 1000 yards), go with the 6.8. I personally went the 6.8 route, since I wanted an AR for hunting, but also because I live in California and can't get a suppressor, so for me the advantages of the 300BO are gone.
Re: 6.8 or 300 blackout
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lwrkeysfisher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I like the 6.8—take a look here and here and you'll start to see why.
</div></div>
Ha!! That pig/rebar pic was frickin' awesome! Can you say "barrier blind round?" (part of the intended design criteria)
I personally, love my 6.8. I think my max load with 4198 in the 110 OTM w/c Hornady cartridges are gonna push at about 2500 out of my Noveske 14.5 (it should get a little boost from the polygonal rifling), I think I used max loaded RL7 on the 85grain Barnes X, which should be pushing 2700+, I guess. I haven't had a chance to chrono yet.
I like the fact that there is a sizable body of knowledge on load data (68 Forums) and components available for the 6.8. You can run a wide selection of bullet styles and weights from 85-140 grain, and you can push them hard by handloading. Silver State Armory has good, ready made hot ammo, as well. (There may be others manufacturers making hot 6.8, as well, I don't know) If Tula makes cheap 6.8, as mentioned in an earlier post, I will shoot the heck out of it.
I think the 300 is best at what it is best at: subsonic suppressed SBR, and I am seriously considering another Noveske for just that purpose. But, I think for retaining energy at the farther end of carbine distances, the 6.8 is better. But I am keeping an open mind and researching the 300.
OH, and your application is also key here: I built this Rifle (Noveske Afghan, basically) to be a light and quick handling brush gun for hunting pigs in S Texas, and to be a handy rifle to carry up in a blind to shoot deer at distances of maybe 200yds. Will the 300 do the same at those tasks? Yeah, probably. But push that 85, or 95 grain Barnes bullet fast, and neat things are sure to happen, downrange. (as lwrkeysfisher can attest!)
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lwrkeysfisher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I like the 6.8—take a look here and here and you'll start to see why.
</div></div>
Ha!! That pig/rebar pic was frickin' awesome! Can you say "barrier blind round?" (part of the intended design criteria)
I personally, love my 6.8. I think my max load with 4198 in the 110 OTM w/c Hornady cartridges are gonna push at about 2500 out of my Noveske 14.5 (it should get a little boost from the polygonal rifling), I think I used max loaded RL7 on the 85grain Barnes X, which should be pushing 2700+, I guess. I haven't had a chance to chrono yet.
I like the fact that there is a sizable body of knowledge on load data (68 Forums) and components available for the 6.8. You can run a wide selection of bullet styles and weights from 85-140 grain, and you can push them hard by handloading. Silver State Armory has good, ready made hot ammo, as well. (There may be others manufacturers making hot 6.8, as well, I don't know) If Tula makes cheap 6.8, as mentioned in an earlier post, I will shoot the heck out of it.
I think the 300 is best at what it is best at: subsonic suppressed SBR, and I am seriously considering another Noveske for just that purpose. But, I think for retaining energy at the farther end of carbine distances, the 6.8 is better. But I am keeping an open mind and researching the 300.
OH, and your application is also key here: I built this Rifle (Noveske Afghan, basically) to be a light and quick handling brush gun for hunting pigs in S Texas, and to be a handy rifle to carry up in a blind to shoot deer at distances of maybe 200yds. Will the 300 do the same at those tasks? Yeah, probably. But push that 85, or 95 grain Barnes bullet fast, and neat things are sure to happen, downrange. (as lwrkeysfisher can attest!)
Re: 6.8 or 300 blackout
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mark21</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 346ci</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The 6.8 can reach out to 400yds, if the shooter can do their part. </div></div>
Curious as to what you mean by reach "out to 400yds". Do you mean accuracy degrades? Stopping power for hogs and the like? I've been shooting a stainless 18" Kotonics/Cardinal Armory (company is now defunct) out to 600 yards with 1MOA and 800 yards at 1.5 MOA, the latter figure is probably more of my lack of shooting skill. Granted, I do most of my shooting at 100-200, but still nice to know I can play games alongside the .308, even if I have more wind drift.
Not looking to start any back-and-forth, but genuinely curious as to why the 400 mark is mentioned specifically? </div></div>
At 400yds the velocity of most 6.8 bullets are getting near the end of their ability to perform well. I'm not saying it dies off at 400yds as many have shot at 1000yds, the bullet may not expand and do the damage needed for a good kill. As always shot placement is key. I'd take a shot past 400yds on a pig or yote. A 10pt wall hanger, nope.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mark21</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 346ci</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The 6.8 can reach out to 400yds, if the shooter can do their part. </div></div>
Curious as to what you mean by reach "out to 400yds". Do you mean accuracy degrades? Stopping power for hogs and the like? I've been shooting a stainless 18" Kotonics/Cardinal Armory (company is now defunct) out to 600 yards with 1MOA and 800 yards at 1.5 MOA, the latter figure is probably more of my lack of shooting skill. Granted, I do most of my shooting at 100-200, but still nice to know I can play games alongside the .308, even if I have more wind drift.
Not looking to start any back-and-forth, but genuinely curious as to why the 400 mark is mentioned specifically? </div></div>
At 400yds the velocity of most 6.8 bullets are getting near the end of their ability to perform well. I'm not saying it dies off at 400yds as many have shot at 1000yds, the bullet may not expand and do the damage needed for a good kill. As always shot placement is key. I'd take a shot past 400yds on a pig or yote. A 10pt wall hanger, nope.
Re: 6.8 or 300 blackout
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rusty815</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> the 300BO is capable of shooting fairly well but it goes subsonic at around 600-700 yards, and is capable of taking game up to about 300 yards, its true advantage is being able to run subsonic rounds and still cycle the bolt, as opposed to the 6.8 which can't normally do that.
</div></div>
Don't forget about Bison's 6.8 BSP, aka the BO killer.
300 BO killer
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rusty815</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> the 300BO is capable of shooting fairly well but it goes subsonic at around 600-700 yards, and is capable of taking game up to about 300 yards, its true advantage is being able to run subsonic rounds and still cycle the bolt, as opposed to the 6.8 which can't normally do that.
</div></div>
Don't forget about Bison's 6.8 BSP, aka the BO killer.
300 BO killer
Re: 6.8 or 300 blackout
The 6.8 is a nice round, but I already had a .308 semi and it seemed to me that I was just getting something with a little less power, range and recoil. There wasn't enough benefit for me to add that caliber. I did a fair amount of shooting subs with the REPR and really enjoyed it except for the fact that it would not cycle.
When the 300BLK came out, it seemed to have enough features and benefits to add it in to the mix. I didn't have to buy new mags, the 9" AAC upper went right on my SBR'd lower, I already had the N-6, and I was off and running.
Shooting the heavy subs is really fun, but the 110 Barnes bullet doing around 2200 FPS is a serious round for mid-range work. It's all I carry on the ranch these days. Short, light, quiet and quick follow up shots... pretty nice.
Shaky
The 6.8 is a nice round, but I already had a .308 semi and it seemed to me that I was just getting something with a little less power, range and recoil. There wasn't enough benefit for me to add that caliber. I did a fair amount of shooting subs with the REPR and really enjoyed it except for the fact that it would not cycle.
When the 300BLK came out, it seemed to have enough features and benefits to add it in to the mix. I didn't have to buy new mags, the 9" AAC upper went right on my SBR'd lower, I already had the N-6, and I was off and running.
Shooting the heavy subs is really fun, but the 110 Barnes bullet doing around 2200 FPS is a serious round for mid-range work. It's all I carry on the ranch these days. Short, light, quiet and quick follow up shots... pretty nice.
Shaky
Re: 6.8 or 300 blackout
both are good as an SBR setup. 6.8 is better for supersonic loads, 300 for subs.
300 to play around with,
6.8 to kill things.
both are good as an SBR setup. 6.8 is better for supersonic loads, 300 for subs.
300 to play around with,
6.8 to kill things.
Re: 6.8 or 300 blackout
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 346ci</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rusty815</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> the 300BO is capable of shooting fairly well but it goes subsonic at around 600-700 yards, and is capable of taking game up to about 300 yards, its true advantage is being able to run subsonic rounds and still cycle the bolt, as opposed to the 6.8 which can't normally do that.
</div></div>
Don't forget about Bison's 6.8 BSP, aka the BO killer.
300 BO killer </div></div>
Yup, that's why I said the 6.8 can't normally do that, you have to get a faster twist barrel that limits the factory ammo you can use (specifically from SSA). And it also uses rather unconventional rounds, which aren't exactly easy to find.
None of this really matters to me anywhat, since I can't use a suppressor here in Commiefornia, so I'll just take the one that performs better, and that is the 6.8.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 346ci</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rusty815</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> the 300BO is capable of shooting fairly well but it goes subsonic at around 600-700 yards, and is capable of taking game up to about 300 yards, its true advantage is being able to run subsonic rounds and still cycle the bolt, as opposed to the 6.8 which can't normally do that.
</div></div>
Don't forget about Bison's 6.8 BSP, aka the BO killer.
300 BO killer </div></div>
Yup, that's why I said the 6.8 can't normally do that, you have to get a faster twist barrel that limits the factory ammo you can use (specifically from SSA). And it also uses rather unconventional rounds, which aren't exactly easy to find.
None of this really matters to me anywhat, since I can't use a suppressor here in Commiefornia, so I'll just take the one that performs better, and that is the 6.8.
Re: 6.8 or 300 blackout
I had both with a can, I got rid of the BO, kept the 6.8, the Barnes murders hogs.
I had both with a can, I got rid of the BO, kept the 6.8, the Barnes murders hogs.
Re: 6.8 or 300 blackout
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lonestar1845</div><div class="ubbcode-body">http://youtu.be/tgKjbySsAik </div></div>
I didn't know Travis was trained so well on how to use a mortar. A true jack of all trades, awesome!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lonestar1845</div><div class="ubbcode-body">http://youtu.be/tgKjbySsAik </div></div>
I didn't know Travis was trained so well on how to use a mortar. A true jack of all trades, awesome!
Re: 6.8 or 300 blackout
the more I shoot my blackout the more I like it, in fact three buddies who tried it now own one of their own.
we make our own brass and load them up on a dillon 550 and we get pretty darn good accuracy all the way to 560 yds.
the more I shoot my blackout the more I like it, in fact three buddies who tried it now own one of their own.
we make our own brass and load them up on a dillon 550 and we get pretty darn good accuracy all the way to 560 yds.
Re: 6.8 or 300 blackout
http://www.outdoorlife.com/blogs/gun-sho...00-aac-blackout
300 BLK fully expands at 300 yards, even from a 9 inch barrel.
6.8 has some additional range, at the cost of special $42 for 30 round magazines, 60% more expensive practice ammunition, and much more flash and blast.
It we do the max point blank range calculation (the max range where you can shoot without adjustment of your sights), and set the +- to 2.5 inches, then:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: "346ci"</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I didn't know Travis was trained so well on how to use a mortar.</div></div>
It is only a 17-24 yard difference in max point blank range, depending on the load.
6.8, Hornady, 110 V-MAX - 244 yards.
6.8, SSA, 110 Pro Hunter - 237 yards.
6.8, SSA, 120 SST - 239 yards.
300 BLK, 110 grain black tip, loaded by Barnes, is 220 yards.
http://www.outdoorlife.com/blogs/gun-sho...00-aac-blackout
300 BLK fully expands at 300 yards, even from a 9 inch barrel.
6.8 has some additional range, at the cost of special $42 for 30 round magazines, 60% more expensive practice ammunition, and much more flash and blast.
It we do the max point blank range calculation (the max range where you can shoot without adjustment of your sights), and set the +- to 2.5 inches, then:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: "346ci"</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I didn't know Travis was trained so well on how to use a mortar.</div></div>
It is only a 17-24 yard difference in max point blank range, depending on the load.
6.8, Hornady, 110 V-MAX - 244 yards.
6.8, SSA, 110 Pro Hunter - 237 yards.
6.8, SSA, 120 SST - 239 yards.
300 BLK, 110 grain black tip, loaded by Barnes, is 220 yards.
L
longguntoter
Guest
Re: 6.8 or 300 blackout
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Xdm40guy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am looking at a Wilson Combat AR.
Found two in stock. One is 6.8 the other 300 blackout.
Any thoughts? </div></div>Personally, I would rather have the 6.8 x 43mm myself.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Xdm40guy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am looking at a Wilson Combat AR.
Found two in stock. One is 6.8 the other 300 blackout.
Any thoughts? </div></div>Personally, I would rather have the 6.8 x 43mm myself.
Re: 6.8 or 300 blackout
Me and my friends all use 6.8SPC. Slays deer and hogs all day. Barnes TSX is the way to go. I got my mags from CProducts before they left business and they were $14. Ammo is pricy but I reload so its manageable. 6.8 has been out longer and has more ammo choices than .300 from what i have seen. .300 seems to be good for subs though.
Me and my friends all use 6.8SPC. Slays deer and hogs all day. Barnes TSX is the way to go. I got my mags from CProducts before they left business and they were $14. Ammo is pricy but I reload so its manageable. 6.8 has been out longer and has more ammo choices than .300 from what i have seen. .300 seems to be good for subs though.
Re: 6.8 or 300 blackout
CP Defense 6.8 mags are less than $20. If you use the Barnes blacktip special to make those special shots then you need to compare prices of premium bullets and ammo on both. Don't show the ballistics of a Barnes blk bullet and the price of a blk FMJ and then compare that to the ballistics of a 6.8 FMJ with the price of a 6.8 Barnes.
All you have to do is talk to guys that have shot animals with both, there is a very clear winner when it comes to terminal performance. Shooting animals with subsonic loads is a very poor decision.
CP Defense 6.8 mags are less than $20. If you use the Barnes blacktip special to make those special shots then you need to compare prices of premium bullets and ammo on both. Don't show the ballistics of a Barnes blk bullet and the price of a blk FMJ and then compare that to the ballistics of a 6.8 FMJ with the price of a 6.8 Barnes.
All you have to do is talk to guys that have shot animals with both, there is a very clear winner when it comes to terminal performance. Shooting animals with subsonic loads is a very poor decision.
Re: 6.8 or 300 blackout
I price compared the lowest price 300 BLK ammunition to the lowest price 6.8 ammunition. I called this practice ammunition. At no point did I use the price of 6.8 Barnes.
6.8 practice ammunition is 60% more expensive than 300 BLK.
I price compared the lowest price 300 BLK ammunition to the lowest price 6.8 ammunition. I called this practice ammunition. At no point did I use the price of 6.8 Barnes.
6.8 practice ammunition is 60% more expensive than 300 BLK.
Re: 6.8 or 300 blackout
300 blackout is a better choice because you don't need to change a lot on the gun itself. Just change the barrel and you're good to go. The 6.8 you have to change the bolt face, barrel and mags.
300 blackout is a better choice because you don't need to change a lot on the gun itself. Just change the barrel and you're good to go. The 6.8 you have to change the bolt face, barrel and mags.
Re: 6.8 or 300 blackout
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rsilvers</div><div class="ubbcode-body">http://www.outdoorlife.com/blogs/gun-sho...00-aac-blackout
300 BLK fully expands at 300 yards, even from a 9 inch barrel.
6.8 has some additional range, at the cost of special $42 magazines, 60% more expensive practice ammunition, and much more flash and blast.
It we do the max point blank range calculation (the max range where you can shoot without adjustment of your sights), and set the +- to 2.5 inches, then:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: "346ci"</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I didn't know Travis was trained so well on how to use a mortar.</div></div>
It is only a 17-24 yard difference in max point blank range, depending on the load.
6.8, Hornady, 110 V-MAX - 244 yards.
6.8, SSA, 110 Pro Hunter - 237 yards.
6.8, SSA, 120 SST - 239 yards.
300 BLK, 110 grain black tip, loaded by Barnes, is 220 yards.
</div></div>
Neither are a good choice for a 800yd shot, doesn't matter if you have a celebrity shooting it or not. When I have to hold 41 feet above my target to connect, not a good choice. I can make hits at 500yds with a 9mm, does that mean it would be best for that type of shooting?
As usual, you are full of shit with the 6.8 talk, degrading it and trying to advertise the anemic 300BO. CPD mags are $13, if the cheap 300blk practice ammo you speak of is the umc junk, good luck with that. Who knows what you will get, could be a kaboom.
Here is 6.8 practice for $14.95/box, http://sgammo.com/product/sellier-bellot/20-round-box-68-spc-110-grain-fmj-sellier-bellot-ammo now where did your crazy numbers come from again?
SSA is far from practice, it is preminum ammo with brass that can last 15+ loads. THe thing is, you are not paying preminum price like you would for that magic blacktip stuff used for shooting people off the moon.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rsilvers</div><div class="ubbcode-body">http://www.outdoorlife.com/blogs/gun-sho...00-aac-blackout
300 BLK fully expands at 300 yards, even from a 9 inch barrel.
6.8 has some additional range, at the cost of special $42 magazines, 60% more expensive practice ammunition, and much more flash and blast.
It we do the max point blank range calculation (the max range where you can shoot without adjustment of your sights), and set the +- to 2.5 inches, then:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: "346ci"</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I didn't know Travis was trained so well on how to use a mortar.</div></div>
It is only a 17-24 yard difference in max point blank range, depending on the load.
6.8, Hornady, 110 V-MAX - 244 yards.
6.8, SSA, 110 Pro Hunter - 237 yards.
6.8, SSA, 120 SST - 239 yards.
300 BLK, 110 grain black tip, loaded by Barnes, is 220 yards.
Neither are a good choice for a 800yd shot, doesn't matter if you have a celebrity shooting it or not. When I have to hold 41 feet above my target to connect, not a good choice. I can make hits at 500yds with a 9mm, does that mean it would be best for that type of shooting?
As usual, you are full of shit with the 6.8 talk, degrading it and trying to advertise the anemic 300BO. CPD mags are $13, if the cheap 300blk practice ammo you speak of is the umc junk, good luck with that. Who knows what you will get, could be a kaboom.
Here is 6.8 practice for $14.95/box, http://sgammo.com/product/sellier-bellot/20-round-box-68-spc-110-grain-fmj-sellier-bellot-ammo now where did your crazy numbers come from again?
SSA is far from practice, it is preminum ammo with brass that can last 15+ loads. THe thing is, you are not paying preminum price like you would for that magic blacktip stuff used for shooting people off the moon.
Re: 6.8 or 300 blackout
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SigTauJohn</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> .300 seems to be good for subs though. </div></div>
The BO is great for subs and CQB type scenarios. If you could get one to run 100%, it would be a good replacement for a MP5 and entry teams.
What it won't do is replace a 5.56, 6.8 or .264/6.5g. The Whisper could not do it and the BO won't, not sure why millions of dollars in wasted advertising is needed. That could have been good money towards the 30RAR.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SigTauJohn</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> .300 seems to be good for subs though. </div></div>
The BO is great for subs and CQB type scenarios. If you could get one to run 100%, it would be a good replacement for a MP5 and entry teams.
What it won't do is replace a 5.56, 6.8 or .264/6.5g. The Whisper could not do it and the BO won't, not sure why millions of dollars in wasted advertising is needed. That could have been good money towards the 30RAR.
Re: 6.8 or 300 blackout
Rsilvers, Context is key----you continue to make misleading comparisons to support your cause. First, you reference MPBR with a 200 yard zero and offer the results as a useful comparison between the .300 and 6.8. However, you fail to provide perspective, such as this: the .300 BLKs MPBR is within 40yds of a 190gr SMK out of a .300 win mag and only 15 yards short of a Lever Revolution 45-70 300gr FTX. We know how different the trajectory is on these rounds, but their MPBR is close, and yet I don't see you making these comparisons---probably because you would get laughed at. Second, you keep referencing prices of crappy ammo with pulled bullets and calling it "practice" ammo and then comparing it with new ammo loaded with match bullets. While I get that they may be the cheapest available for each caliber, I'd venture to say that the results will not be similar. As for me, I only shoot match or hunting ammo with my 6.8's and the price of that ammo is on par with match .223, and for the most part cheaper, from what my searches yield, than .300 Blk match ammo.
Rsilvers, Context is key----you continue to make misleading comparisons to support your cause. First, you reference MPBR with a 200 yard zero and offer the results as a useful comparison between the .300 and 6.8. However, you fail to provide perspective, such as this: the .300 BLKs MPBR is within 40yds of a 190gr SMK out of a .300 win mag and only 15 yards short of a Lever Revolution 45-70 300gr FTX. We know how different the trajectory is on these rounds, but their MPBR is close, and yet I don't see you making these comparisons---probably because you would get laughed at. Second, you keep referencing prices of crappy ammo with pulled bullets and calling it "practice" ammo and then comparing it with new ammo loaded with match bullets. While I get that they may be the cheapest available for each caliber, I'd venture to say that the results will not be similar. As for me, I only shoot match or hunting ammo with my 6.8's and the price of that ammo is on par with match .223, and for the most part cheaper, from what my searches yield, than .300 Blk match ammo.
Re: 6.8 or 300 blackout
In consideration of urban self defense, a "car gun," has anyone seen short barrel (9-12") exterior ballistic comparisons of 5.56 NATO, 6.5 Grendel, 6.8 SPC, .300BLK, and 7.62x39?
In consideration of urban self defense, a "car gun," has anyone seen short barrel (9-12") exterior ballistic comparisons of 5.56 NATO, 6.5 Grendel, 6.8 SPC, .300BLK, and 7.62x39?
Re: 6.8 or 300 blackout
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 346ci</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> if the cheap 300blk practice ammo you speak of is the umc junk, good luck with that. Who knows what you will get, could be a kaboom. </div></div>
Actually the UMC in 300 BLK is full of premium features - and is by far the best ammunition of its type. Here is all the nice stuff we did with it:
Crimped primer (but still reloadable).
Waterproof primer.
Double-struck (NATO like hardness) brass.
Open Tip match (nose struck closed like the Sierra 155 Palma bullet).
Bullet custom designed to be long for high BC and to fit the magazine perfectly.
About a 0.300 BC at 2250 fps.
Annealed with visible mark for verification.
Full-out-awesome, and I am very proud of the ammunition engineers for taking the dream-approach on this.
$10.36 per box at Cheaper Than Dirt (sorry, out of stock at the moment - selling like crazy and cannot keep it in stock).
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 346ci</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> if the cheap 300blk practice ammo you speak of is the umc junk, good luck with that. Who knows what you will get, could be a kaboom. </div></div>
Actually the UMC in 300 BLK is full of premium features - and is by far the best ammunition of its type. Here is all the nice stuff we did with it:
Crimped primer (but still reloadable).
Waterproof primer.
Double-struck (NATO like hardness) brass.
Open Tip match (nose struck closed like the Sierra 155 Palma bullet).
Bullet custom designed to be long for high BC and to fit the magazine perfectly.
About a 0.300 BC at 2250 fps.
Annealed with visible mark for verification.
Full-out-awesome, and I am very proud of the ammunition engineers for taking the dream-approach on this.
$10.36 per box at Cheaper Than Dirt (sorry, out of stock at the moment - selling like crazy and cannot keep it in stock).
Re: 6.8 or 300 blackout
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lwrkeysfisher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Rsilvers, Context is key----you continue to make misleading comparisons to support your cause. First, you reference MPBR with a 200 yard zero and offer the results as a useful comparison between the .300 and 6.8. However, you fail to provide perspective, such as this: the .300 BLKs MPBR is within 40yds of a 190gr SMK out of a .300 win mag and only 15 yards short of a Lever Revolution 45-70 300gr FTX. We know how different the trajectory is on these rounds, but their MPBR is close, and yet I don't see you making these comparisons---probably because you would get laughed at. </div></div>
346ci said that the 300 BLK "mortars" and I proved that in fact there is only about a 20 yard difference in the range that one can shoot 300 BLK without compensation compared to 6.8. Facts are facts, and you cannot fault my factual data.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lwrkeysfisher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Second, you keep referencing prices of crappy ammo with pulled bullets and calling it "practice" ammo and then comparing it with new ammo loaded with match bullets.</div></div>
Not true. I was comparing the price of new UMC 300 BLK ammunition to new UMC 6.8 ammunition at the lowest price I could find each on the internet. 6.8 is 60% more expensive.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lwrkeysfisher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Rsilvers, Context is key----you continue to make misleading comparisons to support your cause. First, you reference MPBR with a 200 yard zero and offer the results as a useful comparison between the .300 and 6.8. However, you fail to provide perspective, such as this: the .300 BLKs MPBR is within 40yds of a 190gr SMK out of a .300 win mag and only 15 yards short of a Lever Revolution 45-70 300gr FTX. We know how different the trajectory is on these rounds, but their MPBR is close, and yet I don't see you making these comparisons---probably because you would get laughed at. </div></div>
346ci said that the 300 BLK "mortars" and I proved that in fact there is only about a 20 yard difference in the range that one can shoot 300 BLK without compensation compared to 6.8. Facts are facts, and you cannot fault my factual data.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lwrkeysfisher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Second, you keep referencing prices of crappy ammo with pulled bullets and calling it "practice" ammo and then comparing it with new ammo loaded with match bullets.</div></div>
Not true. I was comparing the price of new UMC 300 BLK ammunition to new UMC 6.8 ammunition at the lowest price I could find each on the internet. 6.8 is 60% more expensive.
Re: 6.8 or 300 blackout
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 346ci</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SigTauJohn</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> .300 seems to be good for subs though. </div></div>
The BO is great for subs and CQB type scenarios. If you could get one to run 100%, it would be a good replacement for a MP5 and entry teams.
What it won't do is replace a 5.56, 6.8 or .264/6.5g. The Whisper could not do it and the BO won't, not sure why millions of dollars in wasted advertising is needed. That could have been good money towards the 30RAR. </div></div>
346ci - you are incorrect once again and it is difficult to determine if you do it on purpose or just don't know any better.
No millions have been spent on 300 BLK advertising. In fact, I am not sure that any money has been spent on 300 BLK advertising, because I am not aware of AAC, Remington, Barnes, DPMS, or Bushmaster ever running a 300 BLK ad. 300 BLK is popular because it is a good idea, and it is growing because of people who use it. Travis was not paid to do that video, and none of us knew about it until it was circulating.
The Whisper(R) was a good idea but was never very popular because it was not a SAAMI standard and ammunition was $45 per box. It also required an adjustable gas block because there was no coordination between ammunition makers and gun makers to make it all work together with fixed gas.
You are right about the MP5, but also the MP7 and 10-inch 416 and maybe Mk18. It is also of course good for hunting in states which ban 5.56mm.
It would be good to use 300 BLK in 9-12 inch barrels for general military use and then move to 308 when you want more range. That is how the M1 Carbine was used, but 300 BLK has as much energy at 180 yards as the M1 Carbine does at the muzzle - so it is a big upgrade. And of course it is an AR - which is a huge improvement for mounting optics.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 346ci</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SigTauJohn</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> .300 seems to be good for subs though. </div></div>
The BO is great for subs and CQB type scenarios. If you could get one to run 100%, it would be a good replacement for a MP5 and entry teams.
What it won't do is replace a 5.56, 6.8 or .264/6.5g. The Whisper could not do it and the BO won't, not sure why millions of dollars in wasted advertising is needed. That could have been good money towards the 30RAR. </div></div>
346ci - you are incorrect once again and it is difficult to determine if you do it on purpose or just don't know any better.
No millions have been spent on 300 BLK advertising. In fact, I am not sure that any money has been spent on 300 BLK advertising, because I am not aware of AAC, Remington, Barnes, DPMS, or Bushmaster ever running a 300 BLK ad. 300 BLK is popular because it is a good idea, and it is growing because of people who use it. Travis was not paid to do that video, and none of us knew about it until it was circulating.
The Whisper(R) was a good idea but was never very popular because it was not a SAAMI standard and ammunition was $45 per box. It also required an adjustable gas block because there was no coordination between ammunition makers and gun makers to make it all work together with fixed gas.
You are right about the MP5, but also the MP7 and 10-inch 416 and maybe Mk18. It is also of course good for hunting in states which ban 5.56mm.
It would be good to use 300 BLK in 9-12 inch barrels for general military use and then move to 308 when you want more range. That is how the M1 Carbine was used, but 300 BLK has as much energy at 180 yards as the M1 Carbine does at the muzzle - so it is a big upgrade. And of course it is an AR - which is a huge improvement for mounting optics.
Re: 6.8 or 300 blackout
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rsilvers</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rsilvers</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
346ci said:
Re: 6.8 or 300 blackout
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rsilvers</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lwrkeysfisher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Rsilvers, Context is key----you continue to make misleading comparisons to support your cause. First, you reference MPBR with a 200 yard zero and offer the results as a useful comparison between the .300 and 6.8. However, you fail to provide perspective, such as this: the .300 BLKs MPBR is within 40yds of a 190gr SMK out of a .300 win mag and only 15 yards short of a Lever Revolution 45-70 300gr FTX. We know how different the trajectory is on these rounds, but their MPBR is close, and yet I don't see you making these comparisons---probably because you would get laughed at. </div></div>
346ci said that the 300 BLK "mortars" and I proved that in fact there is only about a 20 yard difference in the range that one can shoot 300 BLK without compensation compared to 6.8. Facts are facts, and you cannot fault my factual data.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lwrkeysfisher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Second, you keep referencing prices of crappy ammo with pulled bullets and calling it "practice" ammo and then comparing it with new ammo loaded with match bullets.</div></div>
Not true. I was comparing the price of new UMC 300 BLK ammunition to new UMC 6.8 ammunition at the lowest price I could find each on the internet. 6.8 is 60% more expensive. </div></div>
Once again your response is out of context, 346ci was speaking about 750yd shots with the .300 blk---at that range the .300 has nearly 2X the drop of the 6.8. The .300 has 406" of drop vs 219" with the 6.8 (PNW 155gr Blk vs Hornady 110gr Vmax, both 16" barrels). This difference in drop is significant from any point of view---MPBR is just smoke and mirrors that you use to ignore other, more appropriate facts.
It's funny that you reference these ammo prices, but yet the cheapest <span style="font-weight: bold">in-stock</span> .300 Blk UMC I can find is $12.65 per box and the cheapest <span style="font-weight: bold">in-stock</span> 6.8 UMC is $15.76. Not quite 60%, but 60% or 25% who cares, I don't shoot this junk. To reiterate, match/hunting ammo the 6.8 costs the same or less.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rsilvers</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lwrkeysfisher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Rsilvers, Context is key----you continue to make misleading comparisons to support your cause. First, you reference MPBR with a 200 yard zero and offer the results as a useful comparison between the .300 and 6.8. However, you fail to provide perspective, such as this: the .300 BLKs MPBR is within 40yds of a 190gr SMK out of a .300 win mag and only 15 yards short of a Lever Revolution 45-70 300gr FTX. We know how different the trajectory is on these rounds, but their MPBR is close, and yet I don't see you making these comparisons---probably because you would get laughed at. </div></div>
346ci said that the 300 BLK "mortars" and I proved that in fact there is only about a 20 yard difference in the range that one can shoot 300 BLK without compensation compared to 6.8. Facts are facts, and you cannot fault my factual data.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lwrkeysfisher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Second, you keep referencing prices of crappy ammo with pulled bullets and calling it "practice" ammo and then comparing it with new ammo loaded with match bullets.</div></div>
Not true. I was comparing the price of new UMC 300 BLK ammunition to new UMC 6.8 ammunition at the lowest price I could find each on the internet. 6.8 is 60% more expensive. </div></div>
Once again your response is out of context, 346ci was speaking about 750yd shots with the .300 blk---at that range the .300 has nearly 2X the drop of the 6.8. The .300 has 406" of drop vs 219" with the 6.8 (PNW 155gr Blk vs Hornady 110gr Vmax, both 16" barrels). This difference in drop is significant from any point of view---MPBR is just smoke and mirrors that you use to ignore other, more appropriate facts.
It's funny that you reference these ammo prices, but yet the cheapest <span style="font-weight: bold">in-stock</span> .300 Blk UMC I can find is $12.65 per box and the cheapest <span style="font-weight: bold">in-stock</span> 6.8 UMC is $15.76. Not quite 60%, but 60% or 25% who cares, I don't shoot this junk. To reiterate, match/hunting ammo the 6.8 costs the same or less.
Re: 6.8 or 300 blackout
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rsilvers</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lwrkeysfisher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Rsilvers, Context is key----you continue to make misleading comparisons to support your cause. First, you reference MPBR with a 200 yard zero and offer the results as a useful comparison between the .300 and 6.8. However, you fail to provide perspective, such as this: the .300 BLKs MPBR is within 40yds of a 190gr SMK out of a .300 win mag and only 15 yards short of a Lever Revolution 45-70 300gr FTX. We know how different the trajectory is on these rounds, but their MPBR is close, and yet I don't see you making these comparisons---probably because you would get laughed at. </div></div>
346ci said that the 300 BLK "mortars" and I proved that in fact there is only about a 20 yard difference in the range that one can shoot 300 BLK without compensation compared to 6.8. Facts are facts, and you cannot fault my factual data.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lwrkeysfisher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Second, you keep referencing prices of crappy ammo with pulled bullets and calling it "practice" ammo and then comparing it with new ammo loaded with match bullets.</div></div>
Not true. I was comparing the price of new UMC 300 BLK ammunition to new UMC 6.8 ammunition at the lowest price I could find each on the internet. 6.8 is 60% more expensive. </div></div>
Ok, I'll dumb this up for you to understand. I have never said the 6.8 was good choice for a 800yd shot. Have there been others that made 1000yd shots with the 6.8? Yup, would not be my choice.
If it takes me holding 41 FEET over my target to mortar rounds into to, that is not a good choice for such ranges. That is a damn mortar.
I have yet to see proof of a 300yd kill shot, much less several, even using that magic blacktip. Until then, I will call BS on your advertisement claims. Barnes never got back with me either to come those "tests".
Let's see what Larry had to say about it, remember he was paid like the rest to try and talk the BO up but as fate would have it, could not. tac-tv.com
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rsilvers</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lwrkeysfisher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Rsilvers, Context is key----you continue to make misleading comparisons to support your cause. First, you reference MPBR with a 200 yard zero and offer the results as a useful comparison between the .300 and 6.8. However, you fail to provide perspective, such as this: the .300 BLKs MPBR is within 40yds of a 190gr SMK out of a .300 win mag and only 15 yards short of a Lever Revolution 45-70 300gr FTX. We know how different the trajectory is on these rounds, but their MPBR is close, and yet I don't see you making these comparisons---probably because you would get laughed at. </div></div>
346ci said that the 300 BLK "mortars" and I proved that in fact there is only about a 20 yard difference in the range that one can shoot 300 BLK without compensation compared to 6.8. Facts are facts, and you cannot fault my factual data.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lwrkeysfisher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Second, you keep referencing prices of crappy ammo with pulled bullets and calling it "practice" ammo and then comparing it with new ammo loaded with match bullets.</div></div>
Not true. I was comparing the price of new UMC 300 BLK ammunition to new UMC 6.8 ammunition at the lowest price I could find each on the internet. 6.8 is 60% more expensive. </div></div>
Ok, I'll dumb this up for you to understand. I have never said the 6.8 was good choice for a 800yd shot. Have there been others that made 1000yd shots with the 6.8? Yup, would not be my choice.
If it takes me holding 41 FEET over my target to mortar rounds into to, that is not a good choice for such ranges. That is a damn mortar.
I have yet to see proof of a 300yd kill shot, much less several, even using that magic blacktip. Until then, I will call BS on your advertisement claims. Barnes never got back with me either to come those "tests".
Let's see what Larry had to say about it, remember he was paid like the rest to try and talk the BO up but as fate would have it, could not. tac-tv.com
Re: 6.8 or 300 blackout
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rsilvers</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lwrkeysfisher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Rsilvers, Context is key----you continue to make misleading comparisons to support your cause. First, you reference MPBR with a 200 yard zero and offer the results as a useful comparison between the .300 and 6.8. However, you fail to provide perspective, such as this: the .300 BLKs MPBR is within 40yds of a 190gr SMK out of a .300 win mag and only 15 yards short of a Lever Revolution 45-70 300gr FTX. We know how different the trajectory is on these rounds, but their MPBR is close, and yet I don't see you making these comparisons---probably because you would get laughed at. </div></div>
346ci said that the 300 BLK "mortars" and I proved that in fact there is only about a 20 yard difference in the range that one can shoot 300 BLK without compensation compared to 6.8. Facts are facts, and you cannot fault my factual data.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lwrkeysfisher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Second, you keep referencing prices of crappy ammo with pulled bullets and calling it "practice" ammo and then comparing it with new ammo loaded with match bullets.</div></div>
Not true. I was comparing the price of new UMC 300 BLK ammunition to new UMC 6.8 ammunition at the lowest price I could find each on the internet. 6.8 is 60% more expensive. </div></div>
Is this some of that premium umc ammo?
[img:left]
[/img]
There is another one where the bullets were pushed far back into the case, asking for a kaboom. umc is far from premium, never has been nothing but practice ammo. In fact, I don't ever remember remy making premium ammo.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rsilvers</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lwrkeysfisher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Rsilvers, Context is key----you continue to make misleading comparisons to support your cause. First, you reference MPBR with a 200 yard zero and offer the results as a useful comparison between the .300 and 6.8. However, you fail to provide perspective, such as this: the .300 BLKs MPBR is within 40yds of a 190gr SMK out of a .300 win mag and only 15 yards short of a Lever Revolution 45-70 300gr FTX. We know how different the trajectory is on these rounds, but their MPBR is close, and yet I don't see you making these comparisons---probably because you would get laughed at. </div></div>
346ci said that the 300 BLK "mortars" and I proved that in fact there is only about a 20 yard difference in the range that one can shoot 300 BLK without compensation compared to 6.8. Facts are facts, and you cannot fault my factual data.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lwrkeysfisher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Second, you keep referencing prices of crappy ammo with pulled bullets and calling it "practice" ammo and then comparing it with new ammo loaded with match bullets.</div></div>
Not true. I was comparing the price of new UMC 300 BLK ammunition to new UMC 6.8 ammunition at the lowest price I could find each on the internet. 6.8 is 60% more expensive. </div></div>
Is this some of that premium umc ammo?
[img:left]
There is another one where the bullets were pushed far back into the case, asking for a kaboom. umc is far from premium, never has been nothing but practice ammo. In fact, I don't ever remember remy making premium ammo.
Re: 6.8 or 300 blackout
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rsilvers</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
It would be good to use 300 BLK in 9-12 inch barrels for general military use and then move to 308 when you want more range. That is how the M1 Carbine was used, but 300 BLK has as much energy at 180 yards as the M1 Carbine does at the muzzle - so it is a big upgrade. And of course it is an AR - which is a huge improvement for mounting optics.
</div></div>
Now I know you have bumped your head. Why in the hell would our Mil adopt something equivalent to a 7.62X39 to replace a 5.56? Really??
Your ignorance is beyond belief. I hope you won't need to cross the bridges you burnt when remy drops this toy like a hot tater. I'm out on this one, ya'll argue with this fool if you like....
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rsilvers</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
It would be good to use 300 BLK in 9-12 inch barrels for general military use and then move to 308 when you want more range. That is how the M1 Carbine was used, but 300 BLK has as much energy at 180 yards as the M1 Carbine does at the muzzle - so it is a big upgrade. And of course it is an AR - which is a huge improvement for mounting optics.
</div></div>
Now I know you have bumped your head. Why in the hell would our Mil adopt something equivalent to a 7.62X39 to replace a 5.56? Really??
Your ignorance is beyond belief. I hope you won't need to cross the bridges you burnt when remy drops this toy like a hot tater. I'm out on this one, ya'll argue with this fool if you like....
Re: 6.8 or 300 blackout
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rsilvers</div><div class="ubbcode-body">http://www.outdoorlife.com/blogs/gun-sho...00-aac-blackout
300 BLK fully expands at 300 yards, even from a 9 inch barrel.
6.8 has some additional range, at the cost of special $42 magazines, 60% more expensive practice ammunition, and much more flash and blast.
It we do the max point blank range calculation (the max range where you can shoot without adjustment of your sights), and set the +- to 2.5 inches, then:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: "346ci"</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I didn't know Travis was trained so well on how to use a mortar.</div></div>
It is only a 17-24 yard difference in max point blank range, depending on the load.
6.8, Hornady, 110 V-MAX - 244 yards.
6.8, SSA, 110 Pro Hunter - 237 yards.
6.8, SSA, 120 SST - 239 yards.
300 BLK, 110 grain black tip, loaded by Barnes, is 220 yards.
</div></div>
Not you again, do you have to pollute all of these threads with your lies and misinformation?
The 6.8 is capable of fully expanding out to 500 yards, many cases in the 6.8 forums of that, some even out to 600 yards.
You dont need 40 dollar magazines to extend the range of the 6.8, any 6.8 magazine (with the exception of Barett) can fit almost all 6.8 ammunition except the 140gr. SSA, in this case some will and some won't. the $12 CPD magazine has more than enough room for any ammunition including the 140gr. SSA, they had some initial production run problems with the magazine allowing a less than advertised OAL, but CPD fixed and even replaced the first run magazines on their own coin.
The cheapest 300BLK ammunition I could find was for $12 a box, cheapest 6.8 ammunition I could find was $17 a box, definitely not 60% like you claimed. If you reload, the price difference is minimal.
I don't know where you got your point blank numbers from, but I can almost guarantee that you are not using SSA's tactical ammunition, but even comparing an anemic load such as the hornady V-Max load against one of the 300BLK's best loads, you can see which is superior. SSA's tactical load will extend that range much further.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rsilvers</div><div class="ubbcode-body">http://www.outdoorlife.com/blogs/gun-sho...00-aac-blackout
300 BLK fully expands at 300 yards, even from a 9 inch barrel.
6.8 has some additional range, at the cost of special $42 magazines, 60% more expensive practice ammunition, and much more flash and blast.
It we do the max point blank range calculation (the max range where you can shoot without adjustment of your sights), and set the +- to 2.5 inches, then:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: "346ci"</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I didn't know Travis was trained so well on how to use a mortar.</div></div>
It is only a 17-24 yard difference in max point blank range, depending on the load.
6.8, Hornady, 110 V-MAX - 244 yards.
6.8, SSA, 110 Pro Hunter - 237 yards.
6.8, SSA, 120 SST - 239 yards.
300 BLK, 110 grain black tip, loaded by Barnes, is 220 yards.
Not you again, do you have to pollute all of these threads with your lies and misinformation?
The 6.8 is capable of fully expanding out to 500 yards, many cases in the 6.8 forums of that, some even out to 600 yards.
You dont need 40 dollar magazines to extend the range of the 6.8, any 6.8 magazine (with the exception of Barett) can fit almost all 6.8 ammunition except the 140gr. SSA, in this case some will and some won't. the $12 CPD magazine has more than enough room for any ammunition including the 140gr. SSA, they had some initial production run problems with the magazine allowing a less than advertised OAL, but CPD fixed and even replaced the first run magazines on their own coin.
The cheapest 300BLK ammunition I could find was for $12 a box, cheapest 6.8 ammunition I could find was $17 a box, definitely not 60% like you claimed. If you reload, the price difference is minimal.
I don't know where you got your point blank numbers from, but I can almost guarantee that you are not using SSA's tactical ammunition, but even comparing an anemic load such as the hornady V-Max load against one of the 300BLK's best loads, you can see which is superior. SSA's tactical load will extend that range much further.
Re: 6.8 or 300 blackout
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pharm762</div><div class="ubbcode-body">300 blackout is a better choice because you don't need to change a lot on the gun itself. Just change the barrel and you're good to go. The 6.8 you have to change the bolt face, barrel and mags. </div></div>
I would think the best caliber would be the one that fits the needs not the one that is the cheapest.
It takes 15 minutes to build a complete upper...or swap the barrel. If you don't have the money to buy a bolt and mags do you have money to buy ammo and should you really be buying another caliber?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pharm762</div><div class="ubbcode-body">300 blackout is a better choice because you don't need to change a lot on the gun itself. Just change the barrel and you're good to go. The 6.8 you have to change the bolt face, barrel and mags. </div></div>
I would think the best caliber would be the one that fits the needs not the one that is the cheapest.
It takes 15 minutes to build a complete upper...or swap the barrel. If you don't have the money to buy a bolt and mags do you have money to buy ammo and should you really be buying another caliber?
Re: 6.8 or 300 blackout
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rusty815</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not you again, do you have to pollute all of these threads with your lies and misinformation?</div></div>
Name a single example of a lie...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rusty815</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You dont need 40 dollar magazines to extend the range of the 6.8, any 6.8 magazine (with the exception of Barett) can fit almost all 6.8 ammunition except the 140gr. SSA, in this case some will and some won't. the $12 CPD magazine has more than enough room for any ammunition including the 140gr. SSA, they had some initial production run problems with the magazine allowing a less than advertised OAL, but CPD fixed and even replaced the first run magazines on their own coin.</div></div>
That is a good point. I should have mentioned the C-Products magazines. My own 6.8 - I use PRI based on recommendations, but I should not have made a point about 6.8 magazines being expensive without mentioning that low-cost magazines exist.
That being said - 30 round 6.8 magazines are over $40 each. The magazines you are thinking of are lower capacity.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rusty815</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The cheapest 300BLK ammunition I could find was for $12 a box, cheapest 6.8 ammunition I could find was $17 a box, definitely not 60% like you claimed. If you reload, the price difference is minimal.</div></div>
300 BLK was $10.36 per box. It seems like they just raised the price to $10.83:
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/2-AACO102860
It is not in stock, which is probably why they raised the price - it sells out each batch instantly.
At $10.36 per box, $17 6.8 ammunition is 64% more expensive. At $10.83, it is 57% more expensive.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rusty815</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't know where you got your point blank numbers from, but I can almost guarantee that you are not using SSA's tactical ammunition, but even comparing an anemic load such as the hornady V-Max load against one of the 300BLK's best loads, you can see which is superior. SSA's tactical load will extend that range much further. </div></div>
I calculated them in QuickTarget.
6.8, Hornady, 110 V-MAX - 244 yards.
6.8, SSA, 110 Pro Hunter - 237 yards.
6.8, SSA, 120 SST - 239 yards.
300 BLK, 110 grain black tip, loaded by Barnes, is 220 yards.
The Hornady load is *not* anemic. It is a full power 6.8 load - loaded to 55,000 psi - the same as the 300 BLK load example I used. I even put in two SSA loads for people who incorrectly believe Hornady under-loads their ammunition. Correct I did not use "Tactical" loads - they are over max pressure. It makes no sense to compare over-pressure 6.8 loads to normal pressure 300 BLK loads. Remember - one can load 300 BLK or any cartridge to over-pressure if they wish.
No rational person would use, for example, Buffalo Bore over pressure 45 Colt loads to compare 45 Colt to normal pressure in another cartridge. For some reason the 6.8 world thinks that is ok - and if I had to guess why, it is because the 6.8 has turned into a niche hunting round where most of the users are into ammunition that uses hand loader tricks of loader to greater than maximum pressure and loaded longer than maximum OAL. This has happened to the 10m market also - turned into a hunting cartridge.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rusty815</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not you again, do you have to pollute all of these threads with your lies and misinformation?</div></div>
Name a single example of a lie...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rusty815</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You dont need 40 dollar magazines to extend the range of the 6.8, any 6.8 magazine (with the exception of Barett) can fit almost all 6.8 ammunition except the 140gr. SSA, in this case some will and some won't. the $12 CPD magazine has more than enough room for any ammunition including the 140gr. SSA, they had some initial production run problems with the magazine allowing a less than advertised OAL, but CPD fixed and even replaced the first run magazines on their own coin.</div></div>
That is a good point. I should have mentioned the C-Products magazines. My own 6.8 - I use PRI based on recommendations, but I should not have made a point about 6.8 magazines being expensive without mentioning that low-cost magazines exist.
That being said - 30 round 6.8 magazines are over $40 each. The magazines you are thinking of are lower capacity.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rusty815</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The cheapest 300BLK ammunition I could find was for $12 a box, cheapest 6.8 ammunition I could find was $17 a box, definitely not 60% like you claimed. If you reload, the price difference is minimal.</div></div>
300 BLK was $10.36 per box. It seems like they just raised the price to $10.83:
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/2-AACO102860
It is not in stock, which is probably why they raised the price - it sells out each batch instantly.
At $10.36 per box, $17 6.8 ammunition is 64% more expensive. At $10.83, it is 57% more expensive.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rusty815</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't know where you got your point blank numbers from, but I can almost guarantee that you are not using SSA's tactical ammunition, but even comparing an anemic load such as the hornady V-Max load against one of the 300BLK's best loads, you can see which is superior. SSA's tactical load will extend that range much further. </div></div>
I calculated them in QuickTarget.
6.8, Hornady, 110 V-MAX - 244 yards.
6.8, SSA, 110 Pro Hunter - 237 yards.
6.8, SSA, 120 SST - 239 yards.
300 BLK, 110 grain black tip, loaded by Barnes, is 220 yards.
The Hornady load is *not* anemic. It is a full power 6.8 load - loaded to 55,000 psi - the same as the 300 BLK load example I used. I even put in two SSA loads for people who incorrectly believe Hornady under-loads their ammunition. Correct I did not use "Tactical" loads - they are over max pressure. It makes no sense to compare over-pressure 6.8 loads to normal pressure 300 BLK loads. Remember - one can load 300 BLK or any cartridge to over-pressure if they wish.
No rational person would use, for example, Buffalo Bore over pressure 45 Colt loads to compare 45 Colt to normal pressure in another cartridge. For some reason the 6.8 world thinks that is ok - and if I had to guess why, it is because the 6.8 has turned into a niche hunting round where most of the users are into ammunition that uses hand loader tricks of loader to greater than maximum pressure and loaded longer than maximum OAL. This has happened to the 10m market also - turned into a hunting cartridge.
Re: 6.8 or 300 blackout
Re: 6.8 or 300 blackout
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Adam B</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> </div></div>
LOL. I don't hate it I just have no use for it not even if I was the dude off Live and Let Die and wearing white and a top hat and walking a squirrel.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Adam B</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
LOL. I don't hate it I just have no use for it not even if I was the dude off Live and Let Die and wearing white and a top hat and walking a squirrel.
Re: 6.8 or 300 blackout
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: angsniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Same old BS slivers. Still no real world data, only quickload dribble. Yes, Hornady is weak ammo. </div></div>
Notice the personal attacks - purposely spelling my name incorrectly and calling "BS" but without a single fact to show that I was incorrect. Ad hominem attacks always come from a few people who have no other way to argue or because the facts are not on their side.
I used QuickTarget, not QuickLoad. QuickTarget is a ballistics calculator. Ballistic computers are how everyone calculates max point blank range. Unless you can find a problem with my calculations - and you did not attempt to - you are not adding any new information and my data stands.
Hornady is full power ammunition. This is a matter of fact, not opinion. Normal people see your post and you lose credibility to say that Hornady is lacking. When the new Federal ammunition comes out, I will start citing that - and then you will have to claim that Federal and Hornady are both under powdered - further going to the fringe.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: angsniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Same old BS slivers. Still no real world data, only quickload dribble. Yes, Hornady is weak ammo. </div></div>
Notice the personal attacks - purposely spelling my name incorrectly and calling "BS" but without a single fact to show that I was incorrect. Ad hominem attacks always come from a few people who have no other way to argue or because the facts are not on their side.
I used QuickTarget, not QuickLoad. QuickTarget is a ballistics calculator. Ballistic computers are how everyone calculates max point blank range. Unless you can find a problem with my calculations - and you did not attempt to - you are not adding any new information and my data stands.
Hornady is full power ammunition. This is a matter of fact, not opinion. Normal people see your post and you lose credibility to say that Hornady is lacking. When the new Federal ammunition comes out, I will start citing that - and then you will have to claim that Federal and Hornady are both under powdered - further going to the fringe.
Re: 6.8 or 300 blackout
Rsilvers, It's marketing drivel and you know it; people provide useful ways to compare cartridges and real world buy it right this second prices and you respond with platitudes, comparisons that are out of context, and out-of-stock items with unpublished prices.
Starting to see grumblings over the cost of .300 blk ammo already, it'll be interesting to see what happens when Remington decides it has enough market share and eliminates the artificially low price on the UMC ammo.
Rsilvers, It's marketing drivel and you know it; people provide useful ways to compare cartridges and real world buy it right this second prices and you respond with platitudes, comparisons that are out of context, and out-of-stock items with unpublished prices.
Starting to see grumblings over the cost of .300 blk ammo already, it'll be interesting to see what happens when Remington decides it has enough market share and eliminates the artificially low price on the UMC ammo.
