Controlling the Christmas shopping bully

[desertrat1979]

Re: Controlling the Christmas shopping bully

WOW EH, holy shit....lol. You clearly are functionaly retarded. Fear monger? Really?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: desertrat1979</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I dont think anyone here is qualified to judge. I'm glad it ended well, but are there any of you that would want to be one of the other shoppers there, with your family in tow, while this is going down? Every year there is a story like this or worse. It has gotten to the point that its not worth the effort.

Toughguy, are you one of those guys that feels the need to call anyone who does not 100% support a CC holders decision an Anti-CCW?

EventHorizion, as usual, you read into someone's statement way too deep, and make casual assumptions about a profession you know less than zero about. And yes, most cops use non-firearm/lethal tactics to resolve issues a lot more than you think. But since the media only reports when cops use a gun, I guess thats how things really are, right? </div></div>

Please, outline my "fear mongering". In fact the most accurate statement I made was that you choose to comment on things you know less than nothing about. You have not just highlighted but excelled beyond what that statements says. To get to the point you have reached I can only think you are fucking high, coupled with a genetic detour that ended mental development at an early age.

Oh, and unlike some of the other LEOs like Slap that are armed, as their job requires, I am in a field where I am not armed. I have a set of cuffs, flashlight, and radio. I am outnumbered up to 200 to 1, and the 200 are all convicted felons. SO guess what, I don't get to have the option to pull a gun if I am getting my face smashed in. I can only hope I am in range of a gun post and just deal with picking birdshot out of my ass after it. So on that note, folks in my line of work tend to make more sound decisions when dealing with a confrontation. So while I already stated my thoughts on this particular situation, I fail to see any fear mongering, nor have I stated anything against CCW, nor did I address anything pertaining to CCW. You should just stick to rubbing one out while reading infowar articles instead of petty attempts to get a rise out of people.

Oh, and I am baffled as to you can see anything as pathetic with how far you have your head up your ass.

 

[bassani]

Re: Controlling the Christmas shopping bully

those black friday crowds are 1/4 of a step away from being a post katrina looting mob

not worth the headache

 

[HD1911]

Re: Controlling the Christmas shopping bully

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Maelek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">those black friday crowds are 1/4 of a step away from being a post katrina looting mob

not worth the headache </div></div>

I'd agree fully on that. Bunch of Crazies in a Fang' Dripping Frenzy.

 

[EventHorizon]

Re: Controlling the Christmas shopping bully

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: desertrat1979</div><div class="ubbcode-body">WOW EH, holy shit....lol. You clearly are functionaly retarded. Fear monger? Really?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: desertrat1979</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I dont think anyone here is qualified to judge. I'm glad it ended well, but are there any of you that would want to be one of the other shoppers there, with your family in tow, while this is going down? Every year there is a story like this or worse. It has gotten to the point that its not worth the effort.

Toughguy, are you one of those guys that feels the need to call anyone who does not 100% support a CC holders decision an Anti-CCW?

EventHorizion, as usual, you read into someone's statement way too deep, and make casual assumptions about a profession you know less than zero about. And yes, most cops use non-firearm/lethal tactics to resolve issues a lot more than you think. But since the media only reports when cops use a gun, I guess thats how things really are, right? </div></div>

Please, outline my "fear mongering". In fact the most accurate statement I made was that you choose to comment on things you know less than nothing about. You have not just highlighted but excelled beyond what that statements says. To get to the point you have reached I can only think you are fucking high, coupled with a genetic detour that ended mental development at an early age.

<span style="color: #FF0000">Oh, and unlike some of the other LEOs like Slap that are armed, as their job requires, I am in a field where I am not armed. I have a set of cuffs, flashlight, and radio. I am outnumbered up to 200 to 1, and the 200 are all convicted felons.</span> SO guess what, I don't get to have the option to pull a gun if I am getting my face smashed in. I can only hope I am in range of a gun post and just deal with picking birdshot out of my ass after it. So on that note, folks in my line of work tend to make more sound decisions when dealing with a confrontation. So while I already stated my thoughts on this particular situation, I fail to see any fear mongering, nor have I stated anything against CCW, nor did I address anything pertaining to CCW. You should just stick to rubbing one out while reading infowar articles instead of petty attempts to get a rise out of people.

Oh, and I am baffled as to you can see anything as pathetic with how far you have your head up your ass. </div></div>

I guess this is why there's the rumor going round that you like to walk into showers backwards, bent over, looking for the soap...

 

[Slapchop]

Re: Controlling the Christmas shopping bully

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EventHorizon</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: desertrat1979</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

<span style="color: #FF0000">Oh, and unlike some of the other LEOs like Slap that are armed, as their job requires, I am in a field where I am not armed. I have a set of cuffs, flashlight, and radio. I am outnumbered up to 200 to 1, and the 200 are all convicted felons.</span> SO guess what, I don't get to have the option to pull a gun if I am getting my face smashed in. I can only hope I am in range of a gun post and just deal with picking birdshot out of my ass after it. So on that note, folks in my line of work tend to make more sound decisions when dealing with a confrontation. So while I already stated my thoughts on this particular situation, I fail to see any fear mongering, nor have I stated anything against CCW, nor did I address anything pertaining to CCW. You should just stick to rubbing one out while reading infowar articles instead of petty attempts to get a rise out of people.

Oh, and I am baffled as to you can see anything as pathetic with how far you have your head up your ass. </div></div>

I guess this is why there's the rumor going round that you like to walk into showers backwards, bent over, looking for the soap... </div></div>

Wow EH, this is pretty childish even by your standards. The mark of a whopped man is clearly evident in your response.

Didn't you state you were done in this topic?

 

[-Nick-]

Re: Controlling the Christmas shopping bully

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EventHorizon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I guess this is why there's the rumor going round that you like to walk into showers backwards, bent over, looking for the soap... </div></div>

What does it say about you and your crowd that you hear rumors of such and think about those kind of things?

 

[EventHorizon]

Re: Controlling the Christmas shopping bully

It was a joke you bell-end.

 

[desertrat1979]

Re: Controlling the Christmas shopping bully

When you got nothing to go by, you do what you know best. Resort to grammar school insults, with a "HAHA, wasnt that funny?" look on your face. Except it wasnt funny, wasnt even good. In fact, I feel like a total douche just for seeing such a pitiful attempt, even though it was meant for me. I mean c'mon man, a gay joke for a prison guard? Please, like those haven't been beaten to the ground.

Now Shankster, he could get a good one out.

 

[Slapchop]

Re: Controlling the Christmas shopping bully

Then when his childish BS backfires on him, he resorts to back pedaling with his "it was a joke line". It wasn't a joke, it's how you truly feel. You've blatantly demonstrated such contempt for military and LE before.

I would have respected him more had he stood his ground instead of showing us his yellow belly.

By the way, this guy isn't worthy of being a pimple on Shank's ass cheek when it comes to wit and humor.

 

[EventHorizon]

Re: Controlling the Christmas shopping bully

lol! You two are acting like I ate your last doughnut... Nice try with 'escalate the conflict' tactic but its about as on target as a NYPD shooting.

Interesting that you're talking - again - about another man's ass... but then like you said, you only talk about what you know best.

Listen guys, we can disagree and it's no big deal, but if you're going to fake indignation, bring in bullshit like my being anti military and then try and rope in other members into our tiff because you two pussies can't handle it on your own then all your doing is making my Sunday even more fun.

 

[Slapchop]

Re: Controlling the Christmas shopping bully

You're calling someone on an Internet forum a pussy. An Internet forum! Probably the only time a guy like you finds his voice.

 

[Maggot]

Re: Controlling the Christmas shopping bully

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Slapchop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You're calling someone on an Internet forum a pussy. An Internet forum! Probably the only time a guy like you finds his voice.

</div></div>

With all due respect, Slap, and I like most of your posts, it wasnt too long ago you were calling Guy Montag (or someone else) a coward, on this same forum.

 

[Slapchop]

Re: Controlling the Christmas shopping bully

Oh yea? Doubtful. Why don't you quote me or post a link.

 

[desertrat1979]

Re: Controlling the Christmas shopping bully

Really dude? Gay jokes for the prison guard, donut jokes for the cop...do you have anything original? Looks to me like we "handled our own" just fine. We didn't fall back and resort to childlike insults. You failed, at an epic level, to back up anything you have said, been called out, now your basic insinctual response is to see if you can get a rise out of us with pathetic insults. You should go visit one of your local high schools and have some of the students teach you how to be a man....thats if they don't punk you out there and make you their bitch as well.

 

[athhud]

Re: Controlling the Christmas shopping bully

And then he finishes with the "make you their bitch" line.....

 

[Veer_G]

Re: Controlling the Christmas shopping bully

 

[EventHorizon]

Re: Controlling the Christmas shopping bully

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: desertrat1979</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Really dude? Gay jokes for the prison guard, donut jokes for the cop...do you have anything original? Looks to me like we "handled our own" just fine. We didn't fall back and resort to childlike insults. You failed, at an epic level, to back up anything you have said, been called out, now your basic insinctual response is to see if you can get a rise out of us with pathetic insults. You should go visit one of your local high schools and have some of the students teach you how to be a man....thats if they don't punk you out there and make you their bitch as well. </div></div>

Stop, you had me at 'really'...

Perhaps you should direct some of your vitriolic outrage to the police officers who didn't see anything wrong with what the victim did to protect himself? It seems they too failed on an 'epic level' (I guess with you I don't need to go to a high school to talk to someone with an adolescent's mentality).

 

[EventHorizon]

Re: Controlling the Christmas shopping bully

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Veer_G</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

</div></div>

Oh Veer, you're just jealous of us Stooges because we can shift our body weight from one foot to another without causing catastrophic earthquakes in Japan.

Stick to posting news updates...

 

[Guy Montag]

Re: Controlling the Christmas shopping bully

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Slapchop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Oh yea? Doubtful. Why don't you quote me or post a link. </div></div>

I see your memory has conveniently failed you, let me help.

#3535011 - 08/28/12 05:19 PM

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Slapchop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Chickenshit lol. Posture all you want out here for your boys but I have the message string to prove your cowardice.

Then again, the mere fact that you'd even consider this tells me alot about your ablities as a man or lackthereof.

Either way Gay Montag, you've proven your worth to me so I'm done playing with you. </div></div>

 

[Slapchop]

Re: Controlling the Christmas shopping bully

But those statements are based on fact. You stated you were gonna do something and you never came through. When called to task you made excuses. You're all that and then some Guy. You are worthless as a person and you hold no value whatsoever.

 

[Guy Montag]

Re: Controlling the Christmas shopping bully

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Slapchop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">But those statements are based on fact. </div></div>

Your people skills continue to shine, thanks for the display.

Carry on with the toughguy routine, you're a perfect representation of why so many NYers have little or no respect for NYPD.

To those members of the forum who're unfamiliar with one of America's most corrupt and infamous Police Departments, read this.



<span style="font-style: italic">Anderson worked in the Queens and Brooklyn South narcotics squads and was called to the stand at Arbeeny's bench trial to show the illegal conduct wasn't limited to a single squad.

"Did you observe with some frequency this ... practice which is <span style="font-weight: bold">taking someone who was seemingly not guilty of a crime and laying the drugs on them?"</span> Justice Gustin Reichbach asked Anderson.

<span style="font-weight: bold">"Yes, multiple times," </span>he replied.

The judge pressed Anderson on whether he ever gave a thought to the damage he was inflicting on the innocent.

<span style="font-weight: bold">"It was something I was seeing a lot of, whether it was from supervisors or undercovers and even investigators," </span>he said.

"It's almost like you have no emotion with it, that they attach the bodies to it, they're going to be out of jail tomorrow anyway; nothing is going to happen to them anyway."</span>


http://articles.nydailynews.com/2011-10-...t-henry-tavarez

http://gothamist.com/2011/10/13/nypd_narcotics_detective_testifies.php

 

[KYpatriot]

Re: Controlling the Christmas shopping bully

I'm gonna ignore all the mudslinging and get back to the point. I think EH is right on the facts here - I dont see a damn thing wrong with what the guy did. I don't have to let someone punch me in the face a second time or be forced into a fist fight. EVERY fight is potentially lethal - all of them - and if you choose to fight and don't fight that with that truth in mind then someday you are likely to get killed. The fact is, no one can guarantee that they can win any particular fight, and winning lots of previous fights doesn't mean you will win a future one. I am no MMA master but I do have some training and boxed in college. What difference is that supposed to make? Does that training require me to accept risk and injury that others don't have to when I am attacked? That line of thinking leads only to the kind of ridiculous self defense law that the UK has that the criminals take easy advantage of every day.

Ironically, the more training you have, the SAFER it is for your attacker when you draw the CCW in self defense because he will quit. Is it supposed to be kinder or more noble to beat the #$% out of him? Many people are killed from getting punched and falling. If he doesn't quit, well then you now have proof of the seriousness of his actions that caused you to draw in the first place. I don't have anything to prove to anyone...I see no reason to exchange punches with an attacker even if I am confident I could beat him easily. Why should I accept that risk if I am in a place I have a right to be and have not done anything wrong?

If more people did what this guy did, then every physical attack on someone would be a life or death decision, as it should be. There are only two kinds of human interactions - those based on reason or force. There is persuasion, or physical attack. When you choose to escalate to force you have no right to expect restraint from your victim. If everyone looked at this like Slapchop and others on here have, then the best trained and most capable fighters could terrorize people without having to worry about getting shot. Which is exactly what happens in places where it is illegal to own weapons for self defense. You don't want to get shot, don't punch people in the face. Simple as that.

I realize that the law isn't the same everywhere. I am not suggesting anyone do anything outside the law where they live. I am just suggesting that armed self defense be absolutely legal in every state without the impossible requirement to accurately assess the physical prowess of your attacker. The attack is justification enough in my opinion to draw and assess...in this case the attacker cowered behind a fridge=problem solved.

 

[bigsky23]

Re: Controlling the Christmas shopping bully

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broker</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EventHorizon</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broker</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EventHorizon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">awesome, a pissing contest of machismo, we should resolve plenty now...</div></div>

The only person who's creating a machismo issue is you. Your masculinity wasn't brought into question. I hate to break your heart, but <span style="color: #FF0000">just because a guy throws a punch doesn't mean you get to draw down or shoot them legally</span>, at least not in this State. </div></div>


Well thankfully the law in the state of the victim disagrees. What you're suggesting is that you're against the 'stand your ground' laws. You know what breaks my heart, seeing threads like these where people are happily taking this country to what England has already become. Some are doing insidiously, others are just unwitting collaborators. Both are looking pretty pathetic in my eyes.

That's it from me on this thread. </div></div>

Exactly where did I "suggest" anything. Your misdirection and dramatics is a piss poor attempt to cover up the fact that you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. And if you're going to try and throw laws like "Stand Your Ground" into it then at least get a fucking clue as to what it is. It doesn't say anywhere in the "Stand Your Ground" statues/RCW's I've seen that you can draw down or shoot someone based just because they threw a punch or might throw a punch. You still have to have a real and imminent threat to your life or someone elses. Paranoia that they might try and kick you in the head based upon your past experiences with skinheads in a different Country doesn't imply the use of deadly force. <span style="color: #FF0000">I can almost 99% guarantee you that if you get into a fist fight then draw your weapon and shoot someone unarmed that you'll be in jail for manslaughter.</span> Good luck with that...</div></div>

Might want to check out this article

:

Charges will not be filed against a man accused of shooting a co-worker in the forehead at the West End Walmart last summer, Yellowstone County Attorney Dennis Paxinos announced Wednesday.

In a written statement, Paxinos said the actions of Craig Schmidt, 49, who was accused of shooting 32-year-old Danny Lira during an altercation at Walmart last August, “are supported by Montana law, in both presenting a firearm and in its discharge” and that he was defending himself.

Schmidt was arrested at the scene of the shooting last Aug. 10 and was released from the county jail a short time later while the County Attorney’s Office investigated. He was released under Montana’s then-recently enacted House Bill 228, known as the“castle doctrine” law, which says a person has a natural right to use firearms in self-defense and doesn’t have to call law enforcement before using “justifiable” force.

Schmidt was facing possible charges of assault with a weapon, but the law brought about the need for investigators to gather more information about the incident to determine whether Schmidt believed his life was threatened.

The two men got into an argument about Lira taking an extended break while working on a loading dock at Walmart, Paxinos said, and when Schmidt bumped Lira’s shoulder a short time later, Lira allegedly took it as the beginning of a fight and attacked him.

A witness told investigators that as Schmidt was punched and shoved, he pulled out a pistol and fired. According to Paxinos’statement, Schmidt said Lira hit him “extremely hard” twice in the head before he fell onto his back on top of a metal rack. He also told them he feared a third blow could cause serious injury or kill him because his head was above the metal surface.

He then allegedly pulled out the pistol and fired.

“At the point he decided to draw his gun, Mr. Schmidt could retreat no further,” Paxinos wrote. “He was almost on his back with his feet off the ground, and he believed he would be severely beaten.”

A .25-caliber bullet struck Lira in the forehead, but did not penetrate his skull. Lira told a Billings Gazette reporter a short time later that he was defending himself when the fight started, Paxinos’ prosecutorial decision states.

“This case is difficult because of the obvious disparity of force between punches and a firearm,” Paxinos wrote. “But, after careful consideration of the facts, we conclude Mr. Schmidt’s use of force was justified under Montana law.”

He went on to say that the decision was also based on witness accounts of the incident, which pointed toward Lira as the primary aggressor; a medical examination of Schmidt that determined he suffered significant injuries from the punches; and the size disparity between the two men. Lira was described as 5 feet, 10 inches tall and 260 pounds while the documents said Schmidt was 6 feet, 2 inches and 141 pounds.

“We believe that a reasonable jury would weight the same factors we did and also conclude that Mr. Schmidt was justified in using a gun to defend himself,” Paxinos determined


Read more: http://billingsgazette.com/news/local/cr...l#ixzz2DvsRwZRm

 

[shankster..]

Re: Controlling the Christmas shopping bully

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EventHorizon</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Veer_G</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

</div></div>

Oh Veer, you're just jealous of us Stooges because we can shift our body weight from one foot to another without causing catastrophic earthquakes in Japan.

Stick to posting news updates... </div></div>


<span style="font-weight: bold">Word. Vagina_G tries too hard.</span>

 

[Veer_G]

Re: Controlling the Christmas shopping bully

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shankster</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EventHorizon</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Veer_G</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

</div></div>

Oh Veer, you're just jealous of us Stooges because we can shift our body weight from one foot to another without causing catastrophic earthquakes in Japan.

Stick to posting news updates... </div></div>


<span style="font-weight: bold">Word. Vagina_G tries too hard.</span> </div></div>

And Shanky doesn't care who gives him the courtesy of a reach-around.

 

[Maggot]

Re: Controlling the Christmas shopping bully

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: maggot</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Slapchop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You're calling someone on an Internet forum a pussy. An Internet forum! Probably the only time a guy like you finds his voice.

</div></div>

With all due respect, Slap, and I like most of your posts, it wasnt too long ago you were calling Guy Montag (or someone else) a coward, on this same forum. </div></div>

Slapchop, I have to apologize. You didnt call some one a coward, someone else called you one and I spoke against that. You did say something that made me stop and wonder, though. Dont remember what it was. Il pm you. Maggot out.

 

[Red Ryder]

Re: Controlling the Christmas shopping bully

The fact of the matter is a punch to the head CAN BE either fatal or could cause such serious injury that use of a firearm would be justified. And anymore, it probably wouldn't stop with just one punch.

I have a friend who's girlfriend's son was assaulted by an unknown number of individuals. First came the brass knuckles to the eye socket - after that, it was pretty easy for the attackers since the kid dropped like a rock. The pummeling continued and now, one of the kid's eyes doesn't quite point in the correct direction. Furthermore, serious neurological damage occurred.

Sorry, but in my opinion, ANY fight can lead to serious injury or death to the beatee and justifies the use of deadly force to stop the attack. My GF had a spontaneous subarachnoid hemorrhage a few years back - she can't withstand ANY more trauma to her head and if I thought somebody was going to hurt her, I wouldn't hesitate a microsecond to resort to a firearm to neutralize the threat. Personally, I'd run before it came to shooting somebody but if I couldn't run and they were looking to go at it. Well...

 

[desertrat1979]

Re: Controlling the Christmas shopping bully

Ok, so to sum it up, I never said anything against they guy in the article. I did say I would not have been happy to have been there as a bystander and going to Black Friday sales is not worth it.

Then I call EH out on his stupidity, well, because he is an idiot.

His response???I am a fear monger that wants to ban CCW. Yeah...
Much like ATHHUD, when given the challenge to prove his BS, he just resorts to pointless insults.

Dude, just go back to making shit up about me, both of you. Its far more entertaining, and I actually get a laugh out of it.
Adolescant mentality? This coming from the grown man using gay and donut comments to try and get under someones skin. Hello pot, I am the kettle.

 

[athhud]

Re: Controlling the Christmas shopping bully

Proof is in the pudding.

 

[-Nick-]

Re: Controlling the Christmas shopping bully

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bigsky23</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Exactly where did I "suggest" anything. Your misdirection and dramatics is a piss poor attempt to cover up the fact that you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. And if you're going to try and throw laws like "Stand Your Ground" into it then at least get a fucking clue as to what it is. It doesn't say anywhere in the "Stand Your Ground" statues/RCW's I've seen that you can draw down or shoot someone based just because they threw a punch or might throw a punch. You still have to have a real and imminent threat to your life or someone elses. Paranoia that they might try and kick you in the head based upon your past experiences with skinheads in a different Country doesn't imply the use of deadly force. <span style="color: #FF0000">I can almost 99% guarantee you that if you get into a fist fight then draw your weapon and shoot someone unarmed that you'll be in jail for manslaughter.</span> Good luck with that...</div></div>

Might want to check out this article

:

Charges will not be filed against a man accused of shooting a co-worker in the forehead at the West End Walmart last summer, Yellowstone County Attorney Dennis Paxinos announced Wednesday.

In a written statement, Paxinos said the actions of Craig Schmidt, 49, who was accused of shooting 32-year-old Danny Lira during an altercation at Walmart last August, “are supported by Montana law, in both presenting a firearm and in its discharge” and that he was defending himself.

Schmidt was arrested at the scene of the shooting last Aug. 10 and was released from the county jail a short time later while the County Attorney’s Office investigated. He was released under Montana’s then-recently enacted House Bill 228, known as the“castle doctrine” law, which says a person has a natural right to use firearms in self-defense and doesn’t have to call law enforcement before using “justifiable” force.

Schmidt was facing possible charges of assault with a weapon, but the law brought about the need for investigators to gather more information about the incident to determine whether Schmidt believed his life was threatened.

The two men got into an argument about Lira taking an extended break while working on a loading dock at Walmart, Paxinos said, and when Schmidt bumped Lira’s shoulder a short time later, Lira allegedly took it as the beginning of a fight and attacked him.

A witness told investigators that as Schmidt was punched and shoved, he pulled out a pistol and fired. According to Paxinos’statement, Schmidt said Lira hit him “extremely hard” twice in the head before he fell onto his back on top of a metal rack. He also told them he feared a third blow could cause serious injury or kill him because his head was above the metal surface.

He then allegedly pulled out the pistol and fired.

“At the point he decided to draw his gun, Mr. Schmidt could retreat no further,” Paxinos wrote. “He was almost on his back with his feet off the ground, and he believed he would be severely beaten.”

A .25-caliber bullet struck Lira in the forehead, but did not penetrate his skull. Lira told a Billings Gazette reporter a short time later that he was defending himself when the fight started, Paxinos’ prosecutorial decision states.

“This case is difficult because of the obvious disparity of force between punches and a firearm,” Paxinos wrote. “But, after careful consideration of the facts, we conclude Mr. Schmidt’s use of force was justified under Montana law.”

He went on to say that the decision was also based on witness accounts of the incident, which pointed toward Lira as the primary aggressor; a medical examination of Schmidt that determined he suffered significant injuries from the punches; and the size disparity between the two men. Lira was described as 5 feet, 10 inches tall and 260 pounds while the documents said Schmidt was 6 feet, 2 inches and 141 pounds.

“We believe that a reasonable jury would weight the same factors we did and also conclude that Mr. Schmidt was justified in using a gun to defend himself,” Paxinos determined


Read more: http://billingsgazette.com/news/local/cr...l#ixzz2DvsRwZRm
</div></div>

Good read bigsky. Another reason I like Montana more and more, lol. Very interesting as I didn't realize some States considered the workplace part of the Castle Doctrine.

As I said though in the statement before it's always going to depend on the State. In the article it states there was an extenuating circumstance where his head was against a metal rack which could have proved fatal. He was also only protected by the Castle Doctrine because it was at the workplace which in Montana is protected just like the home. I'm going to stick by my 99% statement. So if you're in your home/workplace then sure you have every right depending on the State... but we're talking about two guys fighting in line.

 

[-Nick-]

Re: Controlling the Christmas shopping bully

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Guy Montag</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Slapchop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Oh yea? Doubtful. Why don't you quote me or post a link. </div></div>

I see your memory has conveniently failed you, let me help.

#3535011 - 08/28/12 05:19 PM

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Slapchop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Chickenshit lol. Posture all you want out here for your boys but I have the message string to prove your cowardice.

Then again, the mere fact that you'd even consider this tells me alot about your ablities as a man or lackthereof.

Either way Gay Montag, you've proven your worth to me so I'm done playing with you. </div></div>
</div></div>

Guy I remember that pissing contest. You went full retard and wanted to actually make it personal by calling Slapchop's CO to file a complaint for shit said here. You probably shouldn't throw stones...

 

[EventHorizon]

Re: Controlling the Christmas shopping bully

I really don't give a damn about the likes of DR, Slap and their cronies who support the idea that they're entitled to determine who should and shouldn't have access to firearms based on their personal perceptions.

What's important is that people realize, the anti-gun hysteria is rampant - in the press, amongst the LE organizations and increasingly so amongst gun owners themselves. We saw time and again the reference of the 2nd in the context of 'hunting and hobbies' in the election. They may be the activities where guns are utilized most in the everyday lives of owners but it dilutes the essential fact that our Constitution makes it a RIGHT. Once firearms are viewed as a privilege and not a right then it's one giant step closer to that privilege being easy to revoke.

Time and again, these insidious references to 'oh you shouldn't need a gun to make you feel like a man'. and the fear-mongering by negative exaggeration of an event involving firearms adds to the weight of the opponents of the 2nd Amendment and the perception that access to firearms should be limited by the 'authorities'.

The hypocrisy is stunning. In this thread alone, people who have previous admonished others (rightly so in some cases) to 'wait until all the facts are present' jumped to conclusions stating the victim should not be fit to hold a CCW or that his actions were dangerous because he 'drew down on a crowd of shoppers' or at least strongly suggested he did so. Instead, when the facts did come out, the victim only pointed his gun at the ground.

The whole episode was twisted in such a way that the main issue was totally lost. That of the correct application of a legal CCW in a self-defense situation.

What I've also noted, by the likes of DR and Slap is the willingness to try and smear people who hold to the values of the 2nd. "Oh if you don't agree then you're anti-LEO or anti-MIL". Really? And who says you speak for all LEO and MIL? Hmm...? This connects to the larger trend of encroachment of our rights and freedoms. It seems if a citizen jealously guards his rights and knows the limits of the powers of the authorities then his only motivation for doing so is because 'he has something to hide.'... We've all seen those comments. illegal search or stop? Why would you care if you're not doing something wrong...?

It is the duty of the involved citizen to provide oversight and investigation into the actions and conduct of those entrusted with the authority to enforce our laws. It is NOT the duty or place of those enforcers to subvert or support efforts that seek to subvert the Constitution. For some who do, it's just a job and as long as they do what they're told they feel absolved. For others, it seems it's personal. They're both wrong, and they both need to be met with legal resistance and denied their opportunity to continue to abuse their position in order to deny the rest of us what is an unalienable right.

 

[-Nick-]

Re: Controlling the Christmas shopping bully

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EventHorizon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I really don't give a damn about the likes of DR, Slap and their cronies who support the idea that they're entitled to determine <span style="font-weight: bold">who should and shouldn't have access to firearms</span> based on their personal perceptions.

<span style="color: #FF0000">Show me where they said anything being able to decide who can and can't have access to a gun? They commented on the use of, not the access. Way to try and spin that bullshit...
</span>

What's important is that people realize, the anti-gun hysteria is rampant - in the press, amongst the LE organizations and increasingly so amongst gun owners themselves. We saw time and again the reference of the 2nd in the context of 'hunting and hobbies' in the election. They may be the activities where guns are utilized most in the everyday lives of owners but it dilutes the essential fact that our Constitution makes it a RIGHT. Once firearms are viewed as a privilege and not a right then it's one giant step closer to that privilege being easy to revoke.

<span style="color: #FF0000">You should change your name to hysteria. You talk about others "fear mongering" but your tangents are just that.</span>

Time and again, these insidious references to 'oh you shouldn't need a gun to make you feel like a man'. and the fear-mongering by negative exaggeration of an event involving firearms adds to the weight of the opponents of the 2nd Amendment and the perception that access to firearms should be limited by the 'authorities'.

<span style="color: #FF0000">The only person relating possession of firearms to manhood is you. Do I need to quote your bullshit again where you reference "machismo" in an attempt to twist the argument into that? You reference manhood and accuse others of homosexuality yet the more you look like the one facing those issues.</span>

The hypocrisy is stunning. In this thread alone, people who have previous admonished others (rightly so in some cases) to 'wait until all the facts are present' jumped to conclusions stating the victim should not be fit to hold a CCW or that his actions were dangerous because he 'drew down on a crowd of shoppers' or at least strongly suggested he did so. Instead, when the facts did come out, the victim only pointed his gun at the ground.

<span style="color: #FF0000">*ding dong* "<span style="font-style: italic">Who's there?</span>"... "<span style="font-style: italic">It's Pot. Let me in Kettle</span>"</span>

<span style="font-weight: bold">The whole episode was twisted</span> in such a way that the main issue was totally lost. That of the correct application of a legal CCW in a self-defense situation.

<span style="color: #FF0000">You shouldn't type while looking in the mirror...</span>

What I've also noted, by the likes of DR and Slap is the <span style="font-weight: bold">willingness to try and smear people</span> who hold to the values of the 2nd. "Oh if you don't agree then you're anti-LEO or anti-MIL". Really? And who says you speak for all LEO and MIL? Hmm...? This connects to the larger trend of encroachment of our rights and freedoms. It seems if a citizen jealously guards his rights and knows the limits of the powers of the authorities then his only motivation for doing so is because 'he has something to hide.'... We've all seen those comments. illegal search or stop? Why would you care if you're not doing something wrong...?

<span style="color: #FF0000">I'm trying not to pass out from laughter... Should I just repeat the Pot & Kettle reference with more sarcasm or go after how you want to preach hypocrisy not even 2 paragraphs above yet you smear everyone who disagrees with you and reference everything from their manhood to insinuating homosexuality. And it's even more amazing how you're able to CONSTANTLY interject fictitious statement references.</span>

It is the duty of the involved citizen to provide oversight and investigation into the actions and conduct of those entrusted with the authority to enforce our laws. It is NOT the duty or place of those enforcers to subvert or support efforts that seek to subvert the Constitution. For some who do, it's just a job and as long as they do what they're told they feel absolved. For others, it seems it's personal. They're both wrong, and they both need to be met with legal resistance and denied their opportunity to continue to abuse their position in order to deny the rest of us what is an unalienable right.

<span style="color: #FF0000">Neither you or Guy should be condemning anyone for getting "personal". If you could have made that statement without referencing your own faults or attacking others in the process that last paragraph might have actually been agreeable.

BTW... Just because you attend a "spin class" at the YMCA and type why riding a stationary bike doesn't mean you're good at actual "spin". </span>
</div></div>

 

[Maggot]

Re: Controlling the Christmas shopping bully

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broker</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Guy Montag</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Slapchop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Oh yea? Doubtful. Why don't you quote me or post a link. </div></div>

I see your memory has conveniently failed you, let me help.

#3535011 - 08/28/12 05:19 PM

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Slapchop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Chickenshit lol. Posture all you want out here for your boys but I have the message string to prove your cowardice.

Then again, the mere fact that you'd even consider this tells me alot about your ablities as a man or lackthereof.

Either way Gay Montag, you've proven your worth to me so I'm done playing with you. </div></div>
</div></div>

Guy I remember that pissing contest. You went full retard and wanted to actually make it personal by calling Slapchop's CO to file a complaint for shit said here. You probably shouldn't throw stones... </div></div>

Good find, broker, I thought I remembered it right, but the pissing match was so full retard the first time I just couldnt make my self go through it again to find the reference

Actually, it was full retard on steroids.

 

[desertrat1979]

Re: Controlling the Christmas shopping bully

Well I was gonna add my .02, but Broker pretty much summed it all up. EH, you are full of shit and if a hypocrite exists, its you. YOU have absolutely nothing to substantiate any of your opinions of me. I honestly think you must have ADHD or Turrets or something to have come to these conclusions, or should I say dilusions. In fact, NOTHING that I have said critiques the actions in this article. My statements were all to you. You, the individual sitting behind your computer, typing the sensational, irrational, propaganda based drivel. They were not aimed at a particular group, they were not driven by an agenda, they do not express my thoughts on the 2A. In fact, you would be hard pressed to find me supporting ANYTHING that goes for gun control. Stupid decisions with guns, posted here in the past, sure. Just because you support all things 2A, does not grant a person immunity from making sound choices (and no, I am not talking about this topic). Apparently you and some others feels it does. In all the crap you type, YOU HAVE NOTHING CREDIBLE TO BACK IT UP.

Also, my position as a LEO does not, has not, and will not grant me to be in a position that is higher than those that aren't. I am more than humble enough to admit that. YOUR problem <span style="text-decoration: underline">IS</span> that me, Slap, Broker and a few others are LEO's, and you simply dont like being told that your full of shit and a hypocrite by us. So you try to use the professions we do as an excuse to try and pedal your personal agenda further by making us out to be what we are not. Actually, you really should try politics. The thing you hate most is exactly what you are. You just don't have any authority.

So, to say this one last time, I don't label a group because of one person (thats your job), and I do not exert authority over anyone here, or anyone, anywhere outside of work. But, I do call it as I see it. When I see what you type, I see bullshit. Fabricated nonsense created by a moron with a misguided axe to grind who is desperately seeking others to back him up. The only way you will make any headway here is if you manage to find ANYTHING credible to prove otherwise. Until that happens (which we both know it isn't gonna happen), anyone who is interested in the drama here will probably conclude that you are full of shit...which you are.

 

[-Nick-]

Re: Controlling the Christmas shopping bully

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: desertrat1979</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Actually, you really should try politics.</div></div>

Don't flatter him. His spin on the koolaid isn't nearly good enough for that.

 

[desertrat1979]

Re: Controlling the Christmas shopping bully

Not to put you in the spotlight Broker, so I hope you don't mind....

Hey EH, I just got a PM from Broker stating that he wanted to inform me that he is not a LEO. So I am gonna guess that he must be one of those in the brainwashed masses that bow down to our authority. ORRRR, he just has enough sense to see that you are making none.

 

[EventHorizon]

Re: Controlling the Christmas shopping bully

It's sweet that you guys are 'friends'.

I support your right to marry and have same sex benefits.

I don't retract, change or backpeddle on anything I've said. You and Slap are more concerned about your self interest and imposition of personal views through the mis-use of the authority given to you by the public. People like Broker are unfortunately a dime a dozen - the sheep mentality is not exclusive to the entitlement class, it's also amongst those who have 'uniform fever'.

Broker already showed his ignorance by calling me out only to be told he himself was wrong. I've no interest in changing his or your mind. You're irrelevant. What's important is for others to know that your views are wrong, there is a better one and it happens to be the truth. In this case, the LE on the scene of the incident also saw the truth, one that you and your friends were uncomfortable with and tried very hard to suggest was wrong.

As for your insults, I find them hilarious that they come from the same people who suggested my insults to them were a sign of immaturity.

 

[Veer_G]

Re: Controlling the Christmas shopping bully

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[-Nick-]

Re: Controlling the Christmas shopping bully

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EventHorizon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's sweet that you guys are 'friends'.

I support your right to marry and have same sex benefits.


As for your insults, I find them hilarious that they come from the same people who suggested my insults to them were a sign of immaturity. </div></div>

You're a fucking hypocrite and an oxygen thief. You also seem to have some infatuation with homosexuality as you're constantly projecting it onto us. Fact is you're losing the argument so rather than come back with anything useful you try and insult everyone. And I'm not suggesting you're immature and an evader of Natural Selection... I'm flat out saying you are in fact just that.

 

[Guy Montag]

Re: Controlling the Christmas shopping bully

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EventHorizon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Slap, what are you saying?! "the proliferation of firearms..." </div></div>

Seeing as he lives and works in an area that's effectively DISARMED, where only LEOs can legally carry, I'm going to guess he's been watching too many Westerns or hanging with Costas.

 

[Casey Simpson]

Re: Controlling the Christmas shopping bully


Intelligent beings engage in conflict resolution, but since the days of the sandbox with the other kids, they were never taught the art. De-escalation, and not escalation, is the goal.

Police didn't charge him, but they should have, with reckless endangerment or whatever criminal statute they have similar in scope.

 

[Queequeg]

Re: Controlling the Christmas shopping bully

I love how the fact that the often criticized and demonized POLICE chose not to arrest or detain the gentleman who drew his weapon in the Black Friday case somehow makes this unequivocal proof that the man was completely justified in doing so.

Yet when a police officer defers to what he knows will be coming; the inevitable second guessing of Action News or the Blowhard of the day, and detains the guy who displays, brandishes or discharges a firearm in ambiguous circumstances (where it is simply not clear that lethal force {or the threat of it}was unavoidable), the cop is a villain.

Never mind the armed fat fucks and loud mouths we all know who won't so much as imagine a busted lip, let alone risk one, rather than pull a firearm in a jam packed store, full of adrenalin stoked shoppers mad with the lust for shit they can't afford...Nah, the dude must have been justified because he didn't get arrested.

I have no idea, nearly two weeks later, what the actual circumstances were but I still say if someone pulls a gun anywhere in my proximity, it damn well better be justified and regardless, he will be accountable for it.

 

[KYpatriot]

Re: Controlling the Christmas shopping bully

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Casey Simpson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Intelligent beings engage in conflict resolution, but since the days of the sandbox with the other kids, they were never taught the art. De-escalation, and not escalation, is the goal.

Police didn't charge him, but they should have, with reckless endangerment or whatever criminal statute they have similar in scope. </div></div>

So how many times would you let a guy punch you in the face while you practice your art of de-escalation? Honest question. Here is another one: have you, as an adult, ever taken an unblocked full on punch in the face from another adult male?
Lots of people think they can take a punch, until they do. I have seen very few people who can even take one unblocked punch to the face without being in survival mode for the rest of the round, and that is with gloves.

I think some of you guys watch too many movies. Fights without refs are usually over for the most part the first time someone connects with one solid punch.

Besides, explain again how having the weapon in his hand increased the danger to those around him? He didn't shoot anyone. His actions accomplished exactly what he intended...his attacker hid behind a fridge. I don't understand what everyone's panties are in a wad about. Why is everyone so afraid of this man's gun? A gun that would have stayed where it was if he wasn't physically attacked. If he was open carrying do you think he would have got punched to begin with? If not, ask yourself why. Could it be that when a would-be attacker perceives that assaulting someone might get them shot they typically choose a more peaceful option?

 

[EventHorizon]

Re: Controlling the Christmas shopping bully

One constituent has their panties in a wad because a self reliant citizenry does not match their world view. The others I have no earthly idea. I do not get why people who have guns, who CCW, are so against this scenario.

As always though, I suspect had they been in the situation of the one they criticize so freely they would probably not act much different.

QQ your observation is biased. No-one here criticizes LE all the time. Whenever a cop does something good - like the Albany deputy - we all celebrate it with enthusiasm. The situation with the cops not pressing charges is no different. It's cops seeing a citizen apply his rights correctly.

There's nothing wrong with being critical of LE when it's warranted. There's everything wrong with thinking they and others with a bestowed authority can do no wrong.

 

[znztivguy]

Re: Controlling the Christmas shopping bully

I would not put myself in that situation. However if it were to happen to me...I would show restraint. If there were obvious escalation I would yell with a stern voice and warn the guy not to make another move.
Comes within 20 feet of me still. I WILL PULL MY FIREARM....
Officer...I was fearing for my life.....
Stand your Ground

 

[athhud]

Re: Controlling the Christmas shopping bully

So, what is the protocol for comforting a crowd when an individual presents a self-defense weapon? I see all of you martial artists pissing your pants at the idea of someone holding a weapon, but have no issue with your skull being wailed on..... Here is a novel approach. If you see a gun pointed in your direction, fucking move. If it is not pointed at you and you still take issue to its presence, I can only assume that you are concerned for your otic health. In such a situation, it would prove helpful to put your fingers in your ears. If you are pissing your pants due to the mere sight of a weapon, close your eyes. Follow all of these steps and you will successfully execute the tactical retreat (also known as fuck fuck run away). If you follow all of these steps and still come in contact with a chunk of lead, then you probably should not have punched the guy waiting in line.....

Edit: It should be mentioned that the tactical retreat is not ideal in every situation. Running across a freeway with your eyes closed and fingers in your ears may prove to be hazardous.

 

[Casey Simpson]

Re: Controlling the Christmas shopping bully


How many times? None!

Do I look like a guy who would let some cat do that?

Primarily because the only way that would happen is if I were standing in line asleep.

 

[athhud]

Re: Controlling the Christmas shopping bully

Casey,
Who are you talking to? I can't make that post work as a response to a single post here...

 

[Veer_G]

Re: Controlling the Christmas shopping bully

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: athhud</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Casey,
Who are you talking to? I can't make that post work as a response to a single post here... </div></div>

He's responding to this post, at least in part: https://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3728564#Post3728564

Reading <span style="font-style: italic">is</span> fundamental ...