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Rifle Scopes New FFP mil/mil needs. Scope Co's please read.

S

steve123

Lt. Colonel
Full Member
Minuteman
Mar 16, 2008
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none of your business
Recently I bought one of those rifles I had wanted since I was a kid. It's a Heckler & Koch 300 22 magnum semi automatic. I don't know why I waited for so long??? I'm so impressed with it! Just what was I hoping for. Well made, ""reliable"", light weight, good trigger, on and on... I plan on using it for plinking steel out 400Y, praire pup popping and other small game hunting.

Also worth mentioning is I'm planning on buying a few more short light weight hunting rifles.

Anyways back to the subject at hand. There are dozens of scope manufacturers and thousands of scopes made of almost every imaginable configuration except a scope that meets my needs.

If I could, I'd have some kind a FFP mil/mil variable power scope on every rifle I own or will own, except of course those rifles that are dedicated with irons.

Here's the current dilemma. I bought one of the smallest FFP mil/mil scopes made to put on that HK and it looks huge on the rifle, kinda destroys the looks of it and takes away from the purpose of the rifle of being light and handy.

What I'd like to see available in the future.

FFP mil/mil variable, medium quality(think Vortex PST or the like), 1" tube scopes with a design priority for compactness and light weight.

2x-10x and 3x-15x with adjustable parallax down to 10Y.

32mm or 40mm objective

.1 mil clicks

Capped or locking turrets

Modern modified mil reticles with stadia less than .1 mil thick and numbered lines with numbers a appropriate distance off to the side so I'm not holding off for wind on a frikken number.


Hopefully there are plenty of folks here on the hide that see the value of a compact FFP scope.

Please bump this thread and comment if you feel the same way I do.
 
Re: New FFP mil/mil needs. Scope Co's please read.

Have you looked at the SWFA SS3-9x42? It gets pretty close to meeting your specs.

Scot E.
 
Re: New FFP mil/mil needs. Scope Co's please read.

somthing to keep in mind in refernace to getting a 1 inch tube is a 22lr drops alot. you will need all the internal travel you can get
 
Re: New FFP mil/mil needs. Scope Co's please read.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scot E</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Have you looked at the SWFA SS3-9x42? It gets pretty close to meeting your specs.

Scot E. </div></div>

Thanks Scott, yes I know about that scope.

The scope I mounted on the HK is .2" longer and probably the same weight. I'm wanting that tidy size like a compact or normal sized 1" 3-9 is. Something like 11-12" length and 12oz or so weight.
 
Re: New FFP mil/mil needs. Scope Co's please read.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 42769vette</div><div class="ubbcode-body">somthing to keep in mind in refernace to getting a 1 inch tube is a 22lr drops alot. you will need all the internal travel you can get </div></div>

Yep, I understand about 1" tubes and limited travel, however with the scope oriented to take advantage of maximum travel, even with a long hunting shot, like with a 200Y prairie dog, there should be enough elevation in a 1" scope to do so.

Here's a few scenarios I might get into.

I have my 22 mag zeroed at 50Y. The drops are...

100Y - .2 mil
150Y - .6 mil
200Y - 1.4 mil
250Y - 2.4 mil
300Y - 3.6 mil
400Y - 6.7 mil

Scenario #1.
Walking along and a Jackrabbit jumps out, runs 250Y and stops. He's gonna take off any second so I get prone and holdover 2.4 mil, maybe holdoff a half mil of wind and fire.

Scenario #2

I'm out coyote hunting with a 223. A yote hangs up at a ranged 450Y. I'm sitting with rifle rested on shooting sticks and holdover 1.7 mils, bang/flop.

I holdover a lot and most of the time wouldn't be dialing. If I had a modified mil reticle in a FFP compact scope I'd be hitting just like I do with my big heavy guns and big heavy scopes. Anybody seeing the advantages yet? Versatility without the weight and length associated with big tactical scopes.

At the same time I want the option to do a quick dial. What I don't want though is tall turrets that stick up and get dialed by accident because they snagged on something. Think USO EREK-ish or March 3-24-ish and the like but with a locking feature or at least capped turrets.
 
Re: New FFP mil/mil needs. Scope Co's please read.

With a 22lr i have 53 moa of drop at 300 yards from a 50 yard zero with subs. I can not recal my 400yd drop but i was thinking it was right at 80 moa.

I think at 200 you will be fine with a 1 inch tube, but for 400 yd shots you will run out of travel, and probably reticle
 
Re: New FFP mil/mil needs. Scope Co's please read.

Are you thinking something like the discontinued NF 2.5-10x24, but FFP and with parallax adjust? I heard Vortex was coming out with something like this later this year ...
 
Re: New FFP mil/mil needs. Scope Co's please read.

My bad, I just re read and noticed you have a 22 mag. I thought it was a 22lr
 
Re: New FFP mil/mil needs. Scope Co's please read.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 42769vette</div><div class="ubbcode-body">With a 22lr i have 53 moa of drop at 300 yards from a 50 yard zero with subs. I can not recal my 400yd drop but i was thinking it was right at 80 moa.

I think at 200 you will be fine with a 1 inch tube, but for 400 yd shots you will run out of travel, and probably reticle </div></div>

I agree.

I guess every scope has certain strong points and weaknesses for any given purpose. I'd/We'd be sacrificing elevation travel for handiness.
 
Re: New FFP mil/mil needs. Scope Co's please read.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LCDR JGB</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Are you thinking something like the discontinued NF 2.5-10x24, but FFP and with parallax adjust? I heard Vortex was coming out with something like this later this year ... </div></div>

Yep something similar. I have one of those NF's mounted on my 15" AR.

Same old SFP story though. It's gotta be on 10x to use the holdovers or I should say use the holdovers without having to think about it first. I have the LV600 ret in it with the velocity and sight in distance tuned for my area. I'd still prefer mil/mil/FFP.
 
Re: New FFP mil/mil needs. Scope Co's please read.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steve123</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LCDR JGB</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Are you thinking something like the discontinued NF 2.5-10x24, but FFP and with parallax adjust? I heard Vortex was coming out with something like this later this year ... </div></div>

Yep something similar. I have one of those NF's mounted on my 15" AR.

Same old SFP story though. It's gotta be on 10x to use the holdovers or I should say use the holdovers without having to think about it first. I have the LV600 ret in it with the velocity and sight in distance tuned for my area. I'd still prefer mil/mil/FFP.

</div></div>

You can run the NF 2.5-10x24 on half power (x5, it`s marked on the power ring) or low power and use the mils for holdovers quite effectively. On half power the distance between each mil dot becomes 2 mils and on low power (x2.5) the distance becomes 4 mils. Not ideal, but that`s how I use this scope. Agreed it would be nice to see more FFP scopes out there with TMR type reticles to take advantage of the full magnification range. It would be nice to see Meopta offer something like this on their ZD 1-4x22.
 
Re: New FFP mil/mil needs. Scope Co's please read.

So this "smallest FFP" scope you are currently using (and complaining), is it the March F scope? What model do you currently have?
 
Re: New FFP mil/mil needs. Scope Co's please read.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CanPopper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So this "smallest FFP" scope you are currently using (and complaining), is it the March F scope? What model do you currently have? </div></div>

March F
wink.gif
= I wish. Believe me, if I could put a premium scope on every rifle I own I'd be ecstatic. I've been behind a March 8-80, F and FX.

Ha, my small FFP scope, I was hoping nobody would ask
smile.gif
. It's a BSA 4-14 tactical. Yes I know it's a cheapy scope but honestly I'd rather have it than a bunch of SFP scopes I can think of costing 4 times as much. That's how much I like FFP/mil/mil.
 
Re: New FFP mil/mil needs. Scope Co's please read.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sititunga1</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steve123</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LCDR JGB</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Are you thinking something like the discontinued NF 2.5-10x24, but FFP and with parallax adjust? I heard Vortex was coming out with something like this later this year ... </div></div>

Yep something similar. I have one of those NF's mounted on my 15" AR.

Same old SFP story though. It's gotta be on 10x to use the holdovers or I should say use the holdovers without having to think about it first. I have the LV600 ret in it with the velocity and sight in distance tuned for my area. I'd still prefer mil/mil/FFP.

</div></div>

You can run the NF 2.5-10x24 on half power (x5, it`s marked on the power ring) or low power and use the mils for holdovers quite effectively. On half power the distance between each mil dot becomes 2 mils and on low power (x2.5) the distance becomes 4 mils. Not ideal, but that`s how I use this scope. Agreed it would be nice to see more FFP scopes out there with TMR type reticles to take advantage of the full magnification range. It would be nice to see Meopta offer something like this on their ZD 1-4x22. </div></div>

I like my NF 2.5-10x24. I'd like much better if it were FFP/mil/mil with a H-59 in it
grin.gif
 
Re: New FFP mil/mil needs. Scope Co's please read.

Steve - let's cross our fingers that NF releases something at SHOT this year in the 1-8/2-10 range F1 to complement the current F1. Same feature set/knob set, maybe locking turret variant. I'm in for a few of them.
 
Re: New FFP mil/mil needs. Scope Co's please read.

^^^Yes! I like where your head is at...^^^
 
Re: New FFP mil/mil needs. Scope Co's please read.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: _9H_Cracka</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Steve - let's cross our fingers that NF releases something at SHOT this year in the 1-8/2-10 range F1 to complement the current F1. Same feature set/knob set, maybe locking turret variant. I'm in for a few of them. </div></div>

Yep Leo, we can only hope! BTW my fingers got all cramped up waiting for a 5.5-22 F1 the last couple years.
 
Re: New FFP mil/mil needs. Scope Co's please read.

The last time I spoke to NF, they said they had no plans to offer a 1-8 with a day light (Aimpoint bright) illuminated reticle. But who knows, maybe they`ll surprise us at the Shot Show.
 
Re: New FFP mil/mil needs. Scope Co's please read.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sititunga1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The last time I spoke to NF, they said they had no plans to offer a 1-8 with a day light (Aimpoint bright) illuminated reticle. But who knows, maybe they`ll surprise us at the Shot Show. </div></div>

Not really concerned about that. Mainly after the more compact/lightweight form factor that maintains the same features/controls as the 3.5-15 F1. Zero stop, ability for older eyes to read the knobs, 10 mils per rev - scope nirvana regardless of power.
 
Re: New FFP mil/mil needs. Scope Co's please read.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Swag-it</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Weaver 3-10 from midway. </div></div>

That's a great scope for the money but it is not FFP.
 
Re: New FFP mil/mil needs. Scope Co's please read.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steve123</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CanPopper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So this "smallest FFP" scope you are currently using (and complaining), is it the March F scope? What model do you currently have? </div></div>

March F
wink.gif
= I wish. Believe me, if I could put a premium scope on every rifle I own I'd be ecstatic. I've been behind a March 8-80, F and FX.

Ha, my small FFP scope, I was hoping nobody would ask
smile.gif
. It's a BSA 4-14 tactical. Yes I know it's a cheapy scope but honestly I'd rather have it than a bunch of SFP scopes I can think of costing 4 times as much. That's how much I like FFP/mil/mil.

</div></div>

Well, in that case, how about the Horusvision scopes?

I see both the Blackbird II:
http://www.horusvision.com/blackbird2.php

and the Talon:
http://www.horusvision.com/talon.php

are both compact FFP's. I also believe SWFA is coming out with the 1-6 FFP that's also pretty compact. Those are better than a BSA FFP.

You kinda left out the price range in your original spec sheet...
wink.gif
 
Re: New FFP mil/mil needs. Scope Co's please read.

How about this ? Not sure about parallax adjustment, but very close to your specs.
 
Re: New FFP mil/mil needs. Scope Co's please read.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CanPopper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steve123</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CanPopper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So this "smallest FFP" scope you are currently using (and complaining), is it the March F scope? What model do you currently have? </div></div>

March F
wink.gif
= I wish. Believe me, if I could put a premium scope on every rifle I own I'd be ecstatic. I've been behind a March 8-80, F and FX.

Ha, my small FFP scope, I was hoping nobody would ask
smile.gif
. It's a BSA 4-14 tactical. Yes I know it's a cheapy scope but honestly I'd rather have it than a bunch of SFP scopes I can think of costing 4 times as much. That's how much I like FFP/mil/mil.

</div></div>

Well, in that case, how about the Horusvision scopes?

I see both the Blackbird II:
http://www.horusvision.com/blackbird2.php

and the Talon:
http://www.horusvision.com/talon.php

are both compact FFP's. I also believe SWFA is coming out with the 1-6 FFP that's also pretty compact. Those are better than a BSA FFP.

You kinda left out the price range in your original spec sheet...
wink.gif
</div></div>

I do own a couple Horus brand scopes(8-26 Predators) but there are a couple things that bother me about them.

1. After a year if one breaks I'm SOL and have basically thrown $ in the trash.

2. Quality wise they ain't no $1200 dollar scope. Now the HDMR which is made by Bushnell for Horus is a totally different animal. In fact the opposite is true. It's arguably the best scope in it's price range around. I have 3 of them.

The new SWFA 1-6 would be a consideration except for me 6x is on the low side of max mag for what I really desire. No question it's going to be far superior to a BSA.

I appreciate the advise though!

Medium price in my book is in the less than $1000 range.
 
Re: New FFP mil/mil needs. Scope Co's please read.

US Optics 1.8x10 37mm obj 30mm tube & ffp, mil/mil Got one on my 7mm SAUM 19" brux barrel
 
Re: New FFP mil/mil needs. Scope Co's please read.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrs66vette</div><div class="ubbcode-body">US Optics 1.8x10 37mm obj 30mm tube & ffp, mil/mil Got one on my 7mm SAUM 19" brux barrel </div></div>

I went to USO's website but they are down for maintenance.

It would be a consideration except for they are expensive and heavyish.
 
Re: New FFP mil/mil needs. Scope Co's please read.

Really this thread is about the scope I want that "doesn't" currently exist.

Think FFP, 1" tube, compact 10-11"s, a pound or less, numbered modern mil based reticle, .1 mil clicks, capped or locking low profile finger adjustable turrets.

Why you say, I say why not??? It's a niche in the scope market that needs filling. I'm looking for versatility here. For instance think of all of the old classic 3-9 1" tube scopes out there with duplex reticles and 1/4moa coin slot clicks. What's nice about them is their size and weight but I don't look at them as a scope I'd use for anything more than "IMO" a PBR sight. Lets take the standard 3-9 further step by step. How about adding a modern mil based reticle? - and the scope is all of a sudden "much" more versatile - Now change it to .1 mil finger adjustable clicks and it becomes even more versatile - Now put adjustable parallax down to 10Y - It becomes even more versatile, like for my air rifles or 22
grin.gif
. Now add FFP so a mil is a mil for holdovers/holdoffs no matter what magnification the scope is on. Now add illume. What you end up with is very small and lightweight scope that is incredibly versatile and a far cry from it's former self.

My thoughts:
Most of us wouldn't need mag down to 1x or want to spend thousands of dollars for a decent little hunting scope as I described above.

Oh, I guess I'm being a bit insensitive to the MOA and the IPHY crowd
wink.gif
How dare I, LOL. I'm sure there are plenty of you guys that wouldn't mind having a scope like I want but in your favorite angle of measure.
 
Re: New FFP mil/mil needs. Scope Co's please read.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steve123</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Really this thread is about the scope I want that "doesn't" currently exist.

Think FFP, 1" tube, compact 10-11"s, a pound or less, numbered modern mil based reticle, .1 mil clicks, capped or locking low profile finger adjustable turrets.

Why you say, I say why not??? It's a niche in the scope market that needs filling. I'm looking for versatility here. For instance think of all of the old classic 3-9 1" tube scopes out there with duplex reticles and 1/4moa coin slot clicks. What's nice about them is their size and weight but I don't look at them as a scope I'd use for anything more than "IMO" a PBR sight. Lets take the standard 3-9 further step by step. How about adding a modern mil based reticle? - and the scope is all of a sudden "much" more versatile - Now change it to .1 mil finger adjustable clicks and it becomes even more versatile - Now put adjustable parallax down to 10Y - It becomes even more versatile, like for my air rifles or 22
grin.gif
. Now add FFP so a mil is a mil for holdovers/holdoffs no matter what magnification the scope is on. Now add illume. What you end up with is very small and lightweight scope that is incredibly versatile and a far cry from it's former self.

My thoughts:
Most of us wouldn't need mag down to 1x or want to spend thousands of dollars for a decent little hunting scope as I described above.

Oh, I guess I'm being a bit insensitive to the MOA and the IPHY crowd
wink.gif
How dare I, LOL. I'm sure there are plenty of you guys that wouldn't mind having a scope like I want but in your favorite angle of measure.




</div></div>

I think you got it right when you said "niche." It is a niche, and a very small one at that. You may be the only one. I know, for me, I have no desire for any of that stuff on a hunting scope. A good, duplex reticle, 3-9x or straight 4x is what I use. For predator calling, I like a little more mag, usually a 4-12x, with some sort of ranging reticle for holdovers. Other than that, nothing else.
 
Re: New FFP mil/mil needs. Scope Co's please read.

It would be nice to have something FFP that has 10-12x on the high end that isn't real heavy. Doesn't need to have 50mm objective.

The Accupoint 3-9 is what I chose I put on my hunting 6.8. It's light(12ish oz) especially for having illumination. Has mildot reticle. The turrets are capped but under them they are finger adjustable and resettable. No parallax adjustemnt though. FFP would make this scope even better.
 
Re: New FFP mil/mil needs. Scope Co's please read.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steve123</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrs66vette</div><div class="ubbcode-body">US Optics 1.8x10 37mm obj 30mm tube & ffp, mil/mil Got one on my 7mm SAUM 19" brux barrel </div></div>

I went to USO's website but they are down for maintenance.

It would be a consideration except for they are expensive and heavyish.

</div></div>

I have one of these (as well as an SN-4 1.5-6). Both Steve and I are after something of a more compact form factor. Acting like a red dot is not a requirement - an Aimpoint T1 does not take up much space.

Horus scopes are not intended to be dialed other than to zero - that is coming from the maker themselves. We want to dial, or hold, or dial AND hold.

NF, if you are listening - just make a 2.5-10 w the F1's knobs, perhaps a more SPR-ish reticle option ( but keep the MLR2.0 also), and be done with it. Icing on the cake? Add a simple locking feature to the knobs. I don't care how much it costs within reason - just want the functionality from that maker along with their strong manufacturing and distribution elements of the brand.
 
Re: New FFP mil/mil needs. Scope Co's please read.

2.5-10x24mm FFP with F1 knobs would be sweet. However, I have doubts they are listerning... hearing perhaps, but not listening. If they were, they would have more than one FFP offering.
 
Re: New FFP mil/mil needs. Scope Co's please read.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kewes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How about this ? Not sure about parallax adjustment, but very close to your specs. </div></div>

Hey Kewes, good find man!!!

That's getting much closer to what I'd like. I see it's 13" but I wish they had the weight listed. I also wonder if it's available yet.
 
Re: New FFP mil/mil needs. Scope Co's please read.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Brandon05_88</div><div class="ubbcode-body">http://www.bushnell.com/tactical/rifle-scopes/elite-tactical/lrs-3-12x-44mm-g2dmr,-1-mil#

I have one on my Noveske. It's not the lightest and the turrets are kinda big, but I really like the reticle and FFP.

A 2.5-10x40 FFP with good reticle, low profile 0.1 mil knobs could easily replace that Bushnell though. </div></div>

I had the 1st gen B3-12. Not a bad scope, I just didn't like the regular MD and tight eyebox on 12x Being the picky sucker I am.
 
Re: New FFP mil/mil needs. Scope Co's please read.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: patrol120</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steve123</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Really this thread is about the scope I want that "doesn't" currently exist.

Think FFP, 1" tube, compact 10-11"s, a pound or less, numbered modern mil based reticle, .1 mil clicks, capped or locking low profile finger adjustable turrets.

Why you say, I say why not??? It's a niche in the scope market that needs filling. I'm looking for versatility here. For instance think of all of the old classic 3-9 1" tube scopes out there with duplex reticles and 1/4moa coin slot clicks. What's nice about them is their size and weight but I don't look at them as a scope I'd use for anything more than "IMO" a PBR sight. Lets take the standard 3-9 further step by step. How about adding a modern mil based reticle? - and the scope is all of a sudden "much" more versatile - Now change it to .1 mil finger adjustable clicks and it becomes even more versatile - Now put adjustable parallax down to 10Y - It becomes even more versatile, like for my air rifles or 22
grin.gif
. Now add FFP so a mil is a mil for holdovers/holdoffs no matter what magnification the scope is on. Now add illume. What you end up with is very small and lightweight scope that is incredibly versatile and a far cry from it's former self.

My thoughts:
Most of us wouldn't need mag down to 1x or want to spend thousands of dollars for a decent little hunting scope as I described above.

Oh, I guess I'm being a bit insensitive to the MOA and the IPHY crowd
wink.gif
How dare I, LOL. I'm sure there are plenty of you guys that wouldn't mind having a scope like I want but in your favorite angle of measure.




</div></div>

I think you got it right when you said "niche." It is a niche, and a very small one at that. You may be the only one. I know, for me, I have no desire for any of that stuff on a hunting scope. A good, duplex reticle, 3-9x or straight 4x is what I use. For predator calling, I like a little more mag, usually a 4-12x, with some sort of ranging reticle for holdovers. Other than that, nothing else. </div></div>

You do realize that in a second focal plane scope the holdovers are only correct at a certain mag setting and on top of that BDC reticles in general don't match up with every cartridge trajectory at all altitudes don't you?

Me... I want to know exactly where my bullets are going to hit and that means a reference in the reticle for wind as well.
 
Re: New FFP mil/mil needs. Scope Co's please read.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steve123</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: patrol120</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steve123</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Really this thread is about the scope I want that "doesn't" currently exist.

Think FFP, 1" tube, compact 10-11"s, a pound or less, numbered modern mil based reticle, .1 mil clicks, capped or locking low profile finger adjustable turrets.

Why you say, I say why not??? It's a niche in the scope market that needs filling. I'm looking for versatility here. For instance think of all of the old classic 3-9 1" tube scopes out there with duplex reticles and 1/4moa coin slot clicks. What's nice about them is their size and weight but I don't look at them as a scope I'd use for anything more than "IMO" a PBR sight. Lets take the standard 3-9 further step by step. How about adding a modern mil based reticle? - and the scope is all of a sudden "much" more versatile - Now change it to .1 mil finger adjustable clicks and it becomes even more versatile - Now put adjustable parallax down to 10Y - It becomes even more versatile, like for my air rifles or 22
grin.gif
. Now add FFP so a mil is a mil for holdovers/holdoffs no matter what magnification the scope is on. Now add illume. What you end up with is very small and lightweight scope that is incredibly versatile and a far cry from it's former self.

My thoughts:
Most of us wouldn't need mag down to 1x or want to spend thousands of dollars for a decent little hunting scope as I described above.

Oh, I guess I'm being a bit insensitive to the MOA and the IPHY crowd
wink.gif
How dare I, LOL. I'm sure there are plenty of you guys that wouldn't mind having a scope like I want but in your favorite angle of measure.




</div></div>

I think you got it right when you said "niche." It is a niche, and a very small one at that. You may be the only one. I know, for me, I have no desire for any of that stuff on a hunting scope. A good, duplex reticle, 3-9x or straight 4x is what I use. For predator calling, I like a little more mag, usually a 4-12x, with some sort of ranging reticle for holdovers. Other than that, nothing else. </div></div>

You do realize that in a second focal plane scope the holdovers are only correct at a certain mag setting and on top of that BDC reticles in general don't match up with every cartridge trajectory at all altitudes don't you?

Me... I want to know exactly where my bullets are going to hit and that means a reference in the reticle for wind as well. </div></div>

Yeah, I am fairly well aware of how they work. I have also been killing coyotes for quite some time with nothing more than a 3-9x and a Duplex reticle. What guns I have used with BDC reticles get dope worked for the ammo used, and they are utilized at the correct magnifications. its not a difficult concept. Further, I despise FFP scopes for hunting, due to the growing reticle issue.

I was, in no way, saying that you didnt need/want the scope you described. I was simply stating that most folks dont need or want those kind of doodads on a hunting scope. Some do, but its a small number, and that, in essence, is a niche.
 
Re: New FFP mil/mil needs. Scope Co's please read.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: _9H_Cracka</div><div class="ubbcode-body">NF, if you are listening - just make a 2.5-10 w the F1's knobs, perhaps a more SPR-ish reticle option ( but keep the MLR2.0 also), and be done with it. Icing on the cake? Add a simple locking feature to the knobs. I don't care how much it costs within reason - just want the functionality from that maker along with their strong manufacturing and distribution elements of the brand.</div></div>
Yes... Please!!! Could not have been better stated... After thinking about it more, I'd really like to see it come in at under $2,000 or at least right in that neighborhood.
 
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