XM 193 vs DRT for HD

[Francqua]

Did a bit of research on ammo I spotted on CTD...the XM 193...
Looking for a HD round for my AR. AS I understand it, the XM 193 was <span style="text-decoration: underline">declined </span>by NATO (and a long list of countries) , as a replacement for the 7.62 round, due to it's inhumane wound capabilities<span style="font-weight: bold"> *</span>. Isn't the whole point to stop the attack? From what I've read, the XM193 (55gr) is flying so fast that when it impacts a target it appears to fragment damn quick; dumping a large amount of it's energy early. Does that basically make it a Frangible round? Wouldn't a DRT type product do the same thing? DRT round is designed to dump energy upon contact with water/flesh. Am I just missing something? What the difference? Speed then frag vs frag less speed..??? *
<span style="font-weight: bold">Source:</span> Wikipedia,5.56 x 45 NATO (see key notes 9 & 10); and International Legall Initiatives to Restrict Military Small Arm Ammunition by W Hays Parks copyright 2010

 

[Ring]

Re: XM 193 vs DRT for HD

" the XM 193 was "banned" by NATO due to it's inhumane wound capabilities"


lol wut?

#1. fmj ammo will only frag and close range to to the impact speeds, back out 200 or more y, then it wont...

as for 223 VS people sized targets, read these...

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1384989_Deer_vs_223_Season_4_Graphic_Pics_11_24_Bad_update.html

 

[sawman556]

Re: XM 193 vs DRT for HD

I don't think it matters.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Re: XM 193 vs DRT for HD

I'm not sure what XM193 would do on a human sized target or what DRT does but I can speak to coyotes and groundhogs shot with XM193 and it was less than impressive. Little hole in, little hole out with no fragmenting. VMAX is a different story though, they tear some stuff up. For that very reason and how well vmax's fragment through drywall my HD AR is loaded with 60gr Vmax loads.

 

[Alric]

Re: XM 193 vs DRT for HD

There are better choices available.

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19881

Some of those loads are difficult to acquire as a civilian AFAIK, but you can get the general idea straight from an expert.

 

[kraigWY]

Re: XM 193 vs DRT for HD

I don't use rifles for home defense. Find it hard to hide one in my pant's pocket like my 642..

......but..........

If the XM193 is anything like the M193 I used in SE Asia, I know it works.

Don't know if I'd want to shoot it in the house, but it works.

I don't know about DRT.

Not sure I believe in DRT with anything. I've seen a lot of deer and other critters shot with some heavy rifles, turning the lungs/heart into jelly and they still ran a houndred yards or more.

 

[johngfoster]

Re: XM 193 vs DRT for HD

My HD round of choice is Black Hills 50gr TSX. Exceptional medium barrier penetration, so no hiding behind the couch or doors or walls. And if you're trying to run me down with a vehicle, it will penetrate auto windshield well too. It will reliably expand to 50 cal down to a speed of 2200fps. It won't matter if the perp is wearing heavy clothing like down or denim jacket.

M193 is good for poking holes in stuff, but that's about it. It will fragment more reliably than M855 due to the higher velicity. I'm not sure where you got that M193 was banned, but I've never heard this. The shift to M855 was due to the need to penetrate a Russian steel helmet at 600yd, not because M193 suddenly became illegal or ineffective. As a battle round it does OK. As stated above, there are better choices (Mk318, M855A1) but thousands of SEA's have succumbed to this round.

 

[Shooter45]

Re: XM 193 vs DRT for HD

I've used the XM193 (55gr fmj), M855 (62gr green tip), and some other match variants that were soft points.

The M855 was designed to be fired against persons wearing armor where the bullet has to penetrate a substantial object before reaching the vitals. If that subject is not wearing armor, it just zips right through them. Yes it is still giving a devastating and deadly wound, but it takes much longer for it to take full effect and make the subject no longer a threat.

I used a mixture of XM193 and M855 in Afghanistan in '05/06 and it all had similar effects. The XM193 seemed to show more damage at closer ranges but lacked the power of the M855 past about 300yds. If I only had the choice between the two ammo choices I would prefer the XM193 myself. You just choose your shots and shoot where it works. If the subject is wearing armor, you take groin/pelvic shots and head shots when able.

In '06/07 I got my hands on a few cases of match ammo for my rifle in Iraq. Using a soft point bullet had superior effects the FMJ's I'd been using. It develops far great shock by creating a wider wound channel and spreading the energy out more hurting other organs.

If you have any choice, choose a type of soft point, controlled expansion round for personal defense/home defense round. Here is some research info for it. I can't stand AR15.com but there is some good information on the ballistics that have been done:

http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Fackler_Articles/wounding_patterns_military_rifles.pdf

 

[19dsniper]

Re: XM 193 vs DRT for HD

I agree that there are FAR better choices. Personally i use 50 grain TSX or 75 grain TAP.
To answer your question, If those are your only choices due to budget, I would personally choose the M193 because in those close ranges it will tend to fragment quite well.
If you get a chance, look at all of the research done by Dr. Robberts, Better known as DocGKR. Do a google search on him and read up. He is, in my opinion, the best subject matter expert on this topic. Best of luck.

 

[Wolf22]

Re: XM 193 vs DRT for HD

As stated above - determine priorities for your home/ao..........all will be based on collateral damage/over penetration risk. Only you can asses or assign that level.

Nearly everything is give and take, and mixing rounds theory in one mag will not work when it hits the fan. But, maybe a redimag with one of each 'could' be deployed effectively........ just another malf. waiting to happen, but still an option i guess.


Then its just up to you, your bank account, and your attorney to hash out the rest.