Lake City 308 vs LR brass differences?
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Re: Lake City 308 vs LR differences?
Which ammo are you asking about, specifically? The M118LR? The M118, the M852 or the standard M80 ball ammo? Need some clarification here to give an accurate answer.
Which ammo are you asking about, specifically? The M118LR? The M118, the M852 or the standard M80 ball ammo? Need some clarification here to give an accurate answer.
Re: Lake City 308 vs LR differences?
Between M80 brass an LR brass not much difference besides the crimp. Between m80, M118 SB LR, M118SB, and the older LC 'match' the differences are considerable
The biggest difference and most important is if you are buying it as once fired surplus brass. With LC surplus M80 it was most likely fired through a loose chambered GPMG where as all but M80 was most likely fired through a precision weapon.
Between M80 brass an LR brass not much difference besides the crimp. Between m80, M118 SB LR, M118SB, and the older LC 'match' the differences are considerable
The biggest difference and most important is if you are buying it as once fired surplus brass. With LC surplus M80 it was most likely fired through a loose chambered GPMG where as all but M80 was most likely fired through a precision weapon.
Re: Lake City 308 vs LR differences?
Just wondering about the brass itself. If fired once through precision weapon, so to speak. No machine gun.
Case volume, thickness, etc...
I realize LR brass will be, most likely, fired through a bolt gun.
Or at least a precision rifle.
Just wondering about the brass itself. If fired once through precision weapon, so to speak. No machine gun.
Case volume, thickness, etc...
I realize LR brass will be, most likely, fired through a bolt gun.
Or at least a precision rifle.
Re: Lake City 308 vs LR differences?
In terms of the brass itself, not much difference at all. The two biggest advantages you've got with LR brass is the lack of a primer crimp, and the improved chance that it wasn't cycled through an MG of some type. Fired in a bolt gun, you're good to go with a normal reloading routine from there on out.
In terms of the brass itself, not much difference at all. The two biggest advantages you've got with LR brass is the lack of a primer crimp, and the improved chance that it wasn't cycled through an MG of some type. Fired in a bolt gun, you're good to go with a normal reloading routine from there on out.
Re: Lake City 308 vs LR differences?
LC & LC-LR/Match is EXACTLY the same, the crimp is the only difference but like somebody else said the the LC is going to be MG fired and the LRLC is rifle fired. Really thins means that once fired LCLR is going to be better but only because you don't have to deal with a crimp and the brass will be closer to spec.
LC & LC-LR/Match is EXACTLY the same, the crimp is the only difference but like somebody else said the the LC is going to be MG fired and the LRLC is rifle fired. Really thins means that once fired LCLR is going to be better but only because you don't have to deal with a crimp and the brass will be closer to spec.
Re: Lake City 308 vs LR differences?
The only brass I use for my bolt action 700's is 1X fired LC M80 surplus. Can't beat it for the price and I can't justify paying out the ass for the tiny bit of advantage Lapua or Norma brass gives. I load my ammo hot and ALL cases only safely last 3X with my loads
The only brass I use for my bolt action 700's is 1X fired LC M80 surplus. Can't beat it for the price and I can't justify paying out the ass for the tiny bit of advantage Lapua or Norma brass gives. I load my ammo hot and ALL cases only safely last 3X with my loads
Re: Lake City 308 vs LR differences?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: insight3b</div><div class="ubbcode-body">. I load my ammo hot and ALL cases only safely last 3X with my loads </div></div>
3x is far too few. If you're splitting necks or something after 3x reloads you're loading way too hot or doing something else wrong (headspace/etc.). LC should last 10+ with annealing.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: insight3b</div><div class="ubbcode-body">. I load my ammo hot and ALL cases only safely last 3X with my loads </div></div>
3x is far too few. If you're splitting necks or something after 3x reloads you're loading way too hot or doing something else wrong (headspace/etc.). LC should last 10+ with annealing.
Re: Lake City 308 vs LR differences?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: High Binder</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: insight3b</div><div class="ubbcode-body">. I load my ammo hot and ALL cases only safely last 3X with my loads </div></div>
3x is far too few. If you're splitting necks or something after 3x reloads you're loading way too hot or doing something else wrong (headspace/etc.). LC should last 10+ with annealing. </div></div>
When I say hot I mean hot enough that the primer pockets won't hold a primer...no problems with split necks or over working the brass.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: High Binder</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: insight3b</div><div class="ubbcode-body">. I load my ammo hot and ALL cases only safely last 3X with my loads </div></div>
3x is far too few. If you're splitting necks or something after 3x reloads you're loading way too hot or doing something else wrong (headspace/etc.). LC should last 10+ with annealing. </div></div>
When I say hot I mean hot enough that the primer pockets won't hold a primer...no problems with split necks or over working the brass.
Re: Lake City 308 vs LR differences?
There are old reloaders and there are bold reloaders, but there are very few old, bold reloaders.
Three firings to scrap brass from a bolt gun makes you one bold reloader. With all due respect, you might want to rethink this one a bit. Trust me, you're not gaining anything that's worth what you're risking here.
There are old reloaders and there are bold reloaders, but there are very few old, bold reloaders.
Three firings to scrap brass from a bolt gun makes you one bold reloader. With all due respect, you might want to rethink this one a bit. Trust me, you're not gaining anything that's worth what you're risking here.
Re: Lake City 308 vs LR differences?
I agree that my practices are against the grain but the dividends are substantial. I know that my ammo will be within a few FPS of each other and not a few 100. The faster I have each projectile moving limits the deviation between the 1st-100th. I used to do it the old 'safe' way and had consistent ES in the triples and double digit SD's.
I do not advocate someone doing it this way unless they know exactly what they are doing. For example, if you think flat primers or a sticky bolt lift is an indicator of an 'unsafe' load...do not procede
I agree that my practices are against the grain but the dividends are substantial. I know that my ammo will be within a few FPS of each other and not a few 100. The faster I have each projectile moving limits the deviation between the 1st-100th. I used to do it the old 'safe' way and had consistent ES in the triples and double digit SD's.
I do not advocate someone doing it this way unless they know exactly what they are doing. For example, if you think flat primers or a sticky bolt lift is an indicator of an 'unsafe' load...do not procede
Re: Lake City 308 vs LR differences?
You're kidding yourself. Reduced ES isn't achiecved by highest velocities, but by other good reloading practices. You can do this without running proof loads, and will be a lot safer without giving up a thing. As for the reduced deflection to wind, etc., there's a couple of targets, 600 and 1,000 yard centers down in Ft. Benning at the AMU that you should take a look at. Troy Lawton calculated them and hung them on the wall in response to certain AMU team members wanting to run some extremely high pressure loads in their M16s, claiming majopr wind advantage. The targets use red and blue stickers showing the standard AMU load they had been using, and the "advantage" conferred by the high pressure load. They were within an inch or so at all distances. One risked rifle damage and alibis, the other ran fine over the long term with very little measurable difference. AMU is about as anal as anyone in the world when it comes to testing the validity of their loads, and even they don't push stuff this hard.
You're kidding yourself. Reduced ES isn't achiecved by highest velocities, but by other good reloading practices. You can do this without running proof loads, and will be a lot safer without giving up a thing. As for the reduced deflection to wind, etc., there's a couple of targets, 600 and 1,000 yard centers down in Ft. Benning at the AMU that you should take a look at. Troy Lawton calculated them and hung them on the wall in response to certain AMU team members wanting to run some extremely high pressure loads in their M16s, claiming majopr wind advantage. The targets use red and blue stickers showing the standard AMU load they had been using, and the "advantage" conferred by the high pressure load. They were within an inch or so at all distances. One risked rifle damage and alibis, the other ran fine over the long term with very little measurable difference. AMU is about as anal as anyone in the world when it comes to testing the validity of their loads, and even they don't push stuff this hard.
Re: Lake City 308 vs LR differences?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kevin Thomas</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You're kidding yourself. Reduced ES isn't achiecved by highest velocities, but by other good reloading practices. You can do this without running proof loads, and will be a lot safer without giving up a thing. As for the reduced deflection to wind, etc., there's a couple of targets, 600 and 1,000 yard centers down in Ft. Benning at the AMU that you should take a look at. Troy Lawton calculated them and hung them on the wall in response to certain AMU team members wanting to run some extremely high pressure loads in their M16s, claiming majopr wind advantage. The targets use red and blue stickers showing the standard AMU load they had been using, and the "advantage" conferred by the high pressure load. They were within an inch or so at all distances. One risked rifle damage and alibis, the other ran fine over the long term with very little measurable difference. AMU is about as anal as anyone in the world when it comes to testing the validity of their loads, and even they don't push stuff this hard. </div></div>
I didn't tell you to do it why are you telling me not to?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kevin Thomas</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You're kidding yourself. Reduced ES isn't achiecved by highest velocities, but by other good reloading practices. You can do this without running proof loads, and will be a lot safer without giving up a thing. As for the reduced deflection to wind, etc., there's a couple of targets, 600 and 1,000 yard centers down in Ft. Benning at the AMU that you should take a look at. Troy Lawton calculated them and hung them on the wall in response to certain AMU team members wanting to run some extremely high pressure loads in their M16s, claiming majopr wind advantage. The targets use red and blue stickers showing the standard AMU load they had been using, and the "advantage" conferred by the high pressure load. They were within an inch or so at all distances. One risked rifle damage and alibis, the other ran fine over the long term with very little measurable difference. AMU is about as anal as anyone in the world when it comes to testing the validity of their loads, and even they don't push stuff this hard. </div></div>
I didn't tell you to do it why are you telling me not to?
Re: Lake City 308 vs LR differences?
You're issued exactly ten fingers and two eyes. Call me silly, but I'd just kinda like to see you keep 'em all intact. Seen too many who didn't follow the guidlines, and just hate to see anyone else go down a road that I know is going to end badly.
Your call, you do what you want to.
You're issued exactly ten fingers and two eyes. Call me silly, but I'd just kinda like to see you keep 'em all intact. Seen too many who didn't follow the guidlines, and just hate to see anyone else go down a road that I know is going to end badly.
Your call, you do what you want to.
Re: Lake City 308 vs LR differences?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: insight3b</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: High Binder</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: insight3b</div><div class="ubbcode-body">. I load my ammo hot and ALL cases only safely last 3X with my loads </div></div>
3x is far too few. If you're splitting necks or something after 3x reloads you're loading way too hot or doing something else wrong (headspace/etc.). LC should last 10+ with annealing. </div></div>
When I say hot I mean hot enough that the primer pockets won't hold a primer...no problems with split necks or over working the brass. </div></div>
How much over max do you do you load?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: insight3b</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: High Binder</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: insight3b</div><div class="ubbcode-body">. I load my ammo hot and ALL cases only safely last 3X with my loads </div></div>
3x is far too few. If you're splitting necks or something after 3x reloads you're loading way too hot or doing something else wrong (headspace/etc.). LC should last 10+ with annealing. </div></div>
When I say hot I mean hot enough that the primer pockets won't hold a primer...no problems with split necks or over working the brass. </div></div>
How much over max do you do you load?
Re: Lake City 308 vs LR differences?
I load until I get the desired velocity with low es and sd in the single digits.
I buy my powder 8 pounds at a time so I don't have to burn up 100 rounds worth of powder figuring out lot-to-lot variations.
I'll load up 27 rounds of a new lot's powder and run 9 three round strings over my chrony.
Whichever of those prove the most promising I'll load 100 rounds wih that charge.
Then I'll shoot 25 two round strings and look at the ES
The remaining 50 I'll shoot 5 ten round strings and look at the SD.
The powder charge varies lot-to-lot sometimes it is near but not over max other times it is considerably over max.
I load until I get the desired velocity with low es and sd in the single digits.
I buy my powder 8 pounds at a time so I don't have to burn up 100 rounds worth of powder figuring out lot-to-lot variations.
I'll load up 27 rounds of a new lot's powder and run 9 three round strings over my chrony.
Whichever of those prove the most promising I'll load 100 rounds wih that charge.
Then I'll shoot 25 two round strings and look at the ES
The remaining 50 I'll shoot 5 ten round strings and look at the SD.
The powder charge varies lot-to-lot sometimes it is near but not over max other times it is considerably over max.
Re: Lake City 308 vs LR differences?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: insight3b</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I load until I get the desired velocity with low es and sd in the single digits.
I buy my powder 8 pounds at a time so I don't have to burn up 100 rounds worth of powder figuring out lot-to-lot variations.
I'll load up 27 rounds of a new lot's powder and run 9 three round strings over my chrony.
Whichever of those prove the most promising I'll load 100 rounds wih that charge.
Then I'll shoot 25 two round strings and look at the ES
The remaining 50 I'll shoot 5 ten round strings and look at the SD.
The powder charge varies lot-to-lot sometimes it is near but not over max other times it is considerably over max. </div></div>
Wow! Well you know what they say: No risk, no reward.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: insight3b</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I load until I get the desired velocity with low es and sd in the single digits.
I buy my powder 8 pounds at a time so I don't have to burn up 100 rounds worth of powder figuring out lot-to-lot variations.
I'll load up 27 rounds of a new lot's powder and run 9 three round strings over my chrony.
Whichever of those prove the most promising I'll load 100 rounds wih that charge.
Then I'll shoot 25 two round strings and look at the ES
The remaining 50 I'll shoot 5 ten round strings and look at the SD.
The powder charge varies lot-to-lot sometimes it is near but not over max other times it is considerably over max. </div></div>
Wow! Well you know what they say: No risk, no reward.
Re: Lake City 308 vs LR differences?
If I go to a gun show and look through brass, is there a way to be certain I'm getting LC long range brass? Is the head stamp different?
If I go to a gun show and look through brass, is there a way to be certain I'm getting LC long range brass? Is the head stamp different?
Re: Lake City 308 vs LR differences?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: biggenius29</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If I go to a gun show and look through brass, is there a way to be certain I'm getting LC long range brass? Is the head stamp different? </div></div>
Yep, it's say LC LR 07 or whatever year. The slightly older stuff will say LC MATCH.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: biggenius29</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If I go to a gun show and look through brass, is there a way to be certain I'm getting LC long range brass? Is the head stamp different? </div></div>
Yep, it's say LC LR 07 or whatever year. The slightly older stuff will say LC MATCH.
