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Re: 1942 Savage by Holland and Holland
Help me here.
Savage made SMLE. . . Converted to "sniper" role by H&H?
(nice rifle!)
BMT
Help me here.
Savage made SMLE. . . Converted to "sniper" role by H&H?
(nice rifle!)
BMT
Re: 1942 Savage by Holland and Holland
Always enjoy your beautiful rifles, MJ.
I have a '42 Savage sniper, as well. Yes, it's a tack driver.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Savage made SMLE. . . Converted to "sniper" role by H&H?</div></div>
A converted No.4 Mk.I. I beleive all the No.4 snipers were converted by H&H.
Always enjoy your beautiful rifles, MJ.
I have a '42 Savage sniper, as well. Yes, it's a tack driver.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Savage made SMLE. . . Converted to "sniper" role by H&H?</div></div>
A converted No.4 Mk.I. I beleive all the No.4 snipers were converted by H&H.
Re: 1942 Savage by Holland and Holland
1942 Savage Enfield #4 Converted to T spec's at H&H.
I have two in my T collection one original and one that was restocked at some point. Both are super accurate at all ranges from 200 to 600 yards the max I have access to.
Cheers
..MJ..
1942 Savage Enfield #4 Converted to T spec's at H&H.
I have two in my T collection one original and one that was restocked at some point. Both are super accurate at all ranges from 200 to 600 yards the max I have access to.
Cheers
..MJ..
Re: 1942 Savage by Holland and Holland
Thanks, and nice rifles.
BMT
Thanks, and nice rifles.
BMT
Re: 1942 Savage by Holland and Holland
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rich219</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What did H&H do to it?
</div></div>
There are volumes of papers and books written about the Enfield and H&H connection. I could not even summarize the process in one page but to say it was not a case of screwing on a scope from stores.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rich219</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What did H&H do to it?
</div></div>
There are volumes of papers and books written about the Enfield and H&H connection. I could not even summarize the process in one page but to say it was not a case of screwing on a scope from stores.
Re: 1942 Savage by Holland and Holland
Just effin beautiful
Just effin beautiful
Re: 1942 Savage by Holland and Holland
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rich219</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What did H&H do to it? </div></div>
If you want a quick read, buy "No4(T), An Armourer's Perspective" by Capt. Peter Laidler.
It will tell you in depth what was involved.
Holland and Holland were the premium UK gunmakers of their day and I believe started making guns in the 18th Century? Still going if you have a King's ransom to pay for a custom hunting rifle or shotgun.
Selected No4's that met the accuracy requirements were converted to T spec by hand in what was probably one of the most demanding conversion processes of all dedicated precision rifles of the day.
As MJ says...it's not just a question of pulling a rifle out of the line and screwing a scope to it.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rich219</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What did H&H do to it? </div></div>
If you want a quick read, buy "No4(T), An Armourer's Perspective" by Capt. Peter Laidler.
It will tell you in depth what was involved.
Holland and Holland were the premium UK gunmakers of their day and I believe started making guns in the 18th Century? Still going if you have a King's ransom to pay for a custom hunting rifle or shotgun.
Selected No4's that met the accuracy requirements were converted to T spec by hand in what was probably one of the most demanding conversion processes of all dedicated precision rifles of the day.
As MJ says...it's not just a question of pulling a rifle out of the line and screwing a scope to it.
Re: 1942 Savage by Holland and Holland
This is an older photo of my first outing with the '42. Everything went well till the last of the five shots. Then I let the rifle down.
I turned the range drum up to 400 and shot steel plates till I could stop shaking.
..MJ..
This is an older photo of my first outing with the '42. Everything went well till the last of the five shots. Then I let the rifle down.
I turned the range drum up to 400 and shot steel plates till I could stop shaking.
..MJ..
Re: 1942 Savage by Holland and Holland
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Joop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Always enjoy your beautiful rifles, MJ.
I have a '42 Savage sniper, as well. Yes, it's a tack driver.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Savage made SMLE. . . Converted to "sniper" role by H&H?</div></div>
A converted No.4 Mk.I. I beleive all the No.4 snipers were converted by H&H.</div></div>
Long Branch did some conversions in Canada and BSA a small amount in the UK.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Joop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Always enjoy your beautiful rifles, MJ.
I have a '42 Savage sniper, as well. Yes, it's a tack driver.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Savage made SMLE. . . Converted to "sniper" role by H&H?</div></div>
A converted No.4 Mk.I. I beleive all the No.4 snipers were converted by H&H.</div></div>
Long Branch did some conversions in Canada and BSA a small amount in the UK.
Re: 1942 Savage by Holland and Holland
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: win70chris</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Joop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Always enjoy your beautiful rifles, MJ.
I have a '42 Savage sniper, as well. Yes, it's a tack driver.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Savage made SMLE. . . Converted to "sniper" role by H&H?</div></div>
A converted No.4 Mk.I. I beleive all the No.4 snipers were converted by H&H.</div></div>
Long Branch did some conversions in Canada and BSA a small amount in the UK. </div></div>
Thank you.
Now that you mention it, I forgot about the Long Branch rifles, but I never knew about BSA doing them.
Thanks again,
John
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: win70chris</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Joop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Always enjoy your beautiful rifles, MJ.
I have a '42 Savage sniper, as well. Yes, it's a tack driver.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Savage made SMLE. . . Converted to "sniper" role by H&H?</div></div>
A converted No.4 Mk.I. I beleive all the No.4 snipers were converted by H&H.</div></div>
Long Branch did some conversions in Canada and BSA a small amount in the UK. </div></div>
Thank you.
Now that you mention it, I forgot about the Long Branch rifles, but I never knew about BSA doing them.
Thanks again,
John
Re: 1942 Savage by Holland and Holland
I know Long Branch did them (and used a different Canadian manufactured scope) but as fas as I know H&H did all the UK built rifles...and these were mainly (exclusively? can't check as away on a trip) on Maltby, BSA and Savage donors
I know Long Branch did them (and used a different Canadian manufactured scope) but as fas as I know H&H did all the UK built rifles...and these were mainly (exclusively? can't check as away on a trip) on Maltby, BSA and Savage donors
Re: 1942 Savage by Holland and Holland
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BasraBoy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I know Long Branch did them (and used a different Canadian manufactured scope) but as fas as I know H&H did all the UK built rifles...and these were mainly (exclusively? can't check as away on a trip) on Maltby, BSA and Savage donors </div></div>
I know that most of the rifles converted were BSA. I had just never heard of BSA doing it, themselves.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BasraBoy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I know Long Branch did them (and used a different Canadian manufactured scope) but as fas as I know H&H did all the UK built rifles...and these were mainly (exclusively? can't check as away on a trip) on Maltby, BSA and Savage donors </div></div>
I know that most of the rifles converted were BSA. I had just never heard of BSA doing it, themselves.
Re: 1942 Savage by Holland and Holland
Holland and Holland, the famous British sporting gun manufacturers, converted the majority of No. 4 Mk. I (T) sniper rifles, with the rest converted by BSA and, in Canada, Long Branch arsenal.
From Ian Skennerton (2007), p.228
Holland and Holland, the famous British sporting gun manufacturers, converted the majority of No. 4 Mk. I (T) sniper rifles, with the rest converted by BSA and, in Canada, Long Branch arsenal.
From Ian Skennerton (2007), p.228
Re: 1942 Savage by Holland and Holland
Thanks Chris - interesting. Any idea of numbers?
Laidler gives production numbers for H&H of No4(T)split by original manufacturers. Does Skennerton say when these BSA rifles were done (early, late or throughout production?) or as a protoytpe/part of the Trials program?
To me key identifiers for No4(T)'s are the H&H "S51" stamp applied by the gunsmiths during conversion on the underside of the butt, also the font of the "T" markings on the receiver and butt band and the scope/rifle serials on the butt.
Any info on similar proven marks on these BSA made rifles?
Could be a minefield for potential buyers if there is no documented way of proving provenance/originality
Thanks Chris - interesting. Any idea of numbers?
Laidler gives production numbers for H&H of No4(T)split by original manufacturers. Does Skennerton say when these BSA rifles were done (early, late or throughout production?) or as a protoytpe/part of the Trials program?
To me key identifiers for No4(T)'s are the H&H "S51" stamp applied by the gunsmiths during conversion on the underside of the butt, also the font of the "T" markings on the receiver and butt band and the scope/rifle serials on the butt.
Any info on similar proven marks on these BSA made rifles?
Could be a minefield for potential buyers if there is no documented way of proving provenance/originality
Re: 1942 Savage by Holland and Holland
I really dont know much about the details of the BSA rifles, I saw the info in one of my books and thought I would pass it along to fellow Enfield fans. I would not be surprised if the BSA guns are not well marked, I have a No5 that has BSA markings that are so light they look like scratches. I know the Long Branch rifles are well marked but the BSA could be hard to identify. I found this on another forum. Not sure how correct it is.
The rifles that became No 4(T) snipers were manufactured at BSA, at Long Branch (Canada), at Savage/Stevens (USA), and also at Maltby and Enfield. None at all came from the Fazakerley arsenal. The total combined production figure was 25,721 -- 23,177 converted at Holland and Holland, 1,403 at Enfield (BSA), and 1,141 at Long Branch. This from the definitive work, An Armourer's Perspective: .303 No 4(T) Sniper Rifle and the Holland & Holland Connection by Peter Laidler with Ian Skennerton.
I really dont know much about the details of the BSA rifles, I saw the info in one of my books and thought I would pass it along to fellow Enfield fans. I would not be surprised if the BSA guns are not well marked, I have a No5 that has BSA markings that are so light they look like scratches. I know the Long Branch rifles are well marked but the BSA could be hard to identify. I found this on another forum. Not sure how correct it is.
The rifles that became No 4(T) snipers were manufactured at BSA, at Long Branch (Canada), at Savage/Stevens (USA), and also at Maltby and Enfield. None at all came from the Fazakerley arsenal. The total combined production figure was 25,721 -- 23,177 converted at Holland and Holland, 1,403 at Enfield (BSA), and 1,141 at Long Branch. This from the definitive work, An Armourer's Perspective: .303 No 4(T) Sniper Rifle and the Holland & Holland Connection by Peter Laidler with Ian Skennerton.
Re: 1942 Savage by Holland and Holland
I may be wrong (age + jetlag!
) but doesn't Peter also mention that there were H&H staff working at the plants to do the work?
It's been a while since I read the book....but I'm sure I remember reading or hearing that somewhere.
I may be wrong (age + jetlag!
It's been a while since I read the book....but I'm sure I remember reading or hearing that somewhere.
Re: 1942 Savage by Holland and Holland
The trials rifles were worked up at BSA and there are links to Peter's up-dates and opinions as fresh as last week but yes there was some early fiddling by H&H at BSA. A friend has one of the early trials rifles with an early MkI scope and some features you don't see every day. I would have to re-read my original well thumbed copy to recall it all.
Cheers
..MJ..
The trials rifles were worked up at BSA and there are links to Peter's up-dates and opinions as fresh as last week but yes there was some early fiddling by H&H at BSA. A friend has one of the early trials rifles with an early MkI scope and some features you don't see every day. I would have to re-read my original well thumbed copy to recall it all.
Cheers
..MJ..
1
1kHIT
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Re: 1942 Savage by Holland and Holland
Amazing stick! Sweet!
Amazing stick! Sweet!
Re: 1942 Savage by Holland and Holland
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MJ1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The trials rifles were worked up at BSA and there are links to Peter's up-dates and opinions as fresh as last week but yes there was some early fiddling by H&H at BSA. A friend has one of the early trials rifles with an early MkI scope and some features you don't see every day. I would have to re-read my original well thumbed copy to recall it all.
Cheers
..MJ..
</div></div> Anyone know what scope mount this is ? Nice gun by the way.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MJ1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The trials rifles were worked up at BSA and there are links to Peter's up-dates and opinions as fresh as last week but yes there was some early fiddling by H&H at BSA. A friend has one of the early trials rifles with an early MkI scope and some features you don't see every day. I would have to re-read my original well thumbed copy to recall it all.
Cheers
..MJ..
Re: 1942 Savage by Holland and Holland
Looks like a repro IWS Bracket Mount. Been looking for a real one for 20 years. Found an old repro ad here:
http://victoria.inetgiant.ca/items-for-sale/furniture/enfield-l42a1-sniper-rifle-scope-iws-2693798
But I can't find the contact info.
Looks like a repro IWS Bracket Mount. Been looking for a real one for 20 years. Found an old repro ad here:
http://victoria.inetgiant.ca/items-for-sale/furniture/enfield-l42a1-sniper-rifle-scope-iws-2693798
But I can't find the contact info.
Re: 1942 Savage by Holland and Holland
MJ, oh so very nice!
MJ, oh so very nice!
Re: 1942 Savage by Holland and Holland
I bet you smile every time you think about it. MM
I bet you smile every time you think about it. MM
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