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Re: SCAR 17S vs M1A
Without being biased to either platform its like asking a bunch of mechanics which car is the best for racing. Some are gonna say mustangs, some will say corvettes, some will say vipers, its all just up to the end user. Fortunately for the units (and I hate to name drop) that carry SCARs or have the choice to carry them, if the operator does not like it they don't even have to pick one up in theatre. They don't even have to touch one during their whole deployment or career. Some SOCOM guys love the SCAR, some guys don't care for it. For the guys that love it, and there are many operators that do, it puts bad guys in the dirt just as good as a OBR (which I have only seen on a flat range), MWS, M14, SR 25, etc. All weapon platforms have pros and cons. As far as SOCOM units, they are just as much of hobbyists as civilians. At the end of the day, if you like it, hey its your money, shoot the F**k out of it.
Without being biased to either platform its like asking a bunch of mechanics which car is the best for racing. Some are gonna say mustangs, some will say corvettes, some will say vipers, its all just up to the end user. Fortunately for the units (and I hate to name drop) that carry SCARs or have the choice to carry them, if the operator does not like it they don't even have to pick one up in theatre. They don't even have to touch one during their whole deployment or career. Some SOCOM guys love the SCAR, some guys don't care for it. For the guys that love it, and there are many operators that do, it puts bad guys in the dirt just as good as a OBR (which I have only seen on a flat range), MWS, M14, SR 25, etc. All weapon platforms have pros and cons. As far as SOCOM units, they are just as much of hobbyists as civilians. At the end of the day, if you like it, hey its your money, shoot the F**k out of it.
Re: SCAR 17S vs M1A
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rsilvers</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There is no such thing as a 308 assault rifle. </div></div>
That was kinda my point. At least in theory. The M1A was designed with a mentality of much longer range than modern weapons. Also...some people are too quick to reference standard AR-15/16 characteristics while then referencing AR-10 characteristics That's getting too far away from reality in my humble opinion. Too different.
As for some of the SCAR talk in this thread...I dunno. Kinda new here. It seems the SCAR really elicits strong opinions. I'm not one to subscribe to that. Yes, I own one. I bought it since it seemed like it has real possibilities. My ego isn't invested in it though. If it falls off a cliff, I'll dump it. No skin off my back.
Perhaps people got on here and praised the SCAR without actually running one? Most "gun people" are that way truth be told. Reminds me of the 6.8 crowd I put up with for a few years. My response was always "we'll see....". I'm old. I've seen fads come and go.
As for me and the SCAR, I'm keeping an open mind and liking what I'm seeing so far. And I am interested in getting a 17 as well. Some co-workers switched to the 17 for call-outs and that really got my attention.
Do I think the SCAR has issues? Yes. I think the hinge issue is worth fixing. Not all that thrilled with the SCAR 17 specific mags, but 3rd parties are already addressing that. The market will decide what works. I am not thrilled with the reciprocating charging handle. And I wonder why the civilian version didn't have a non-reciprociating handle like the USMC IAR submission?
I also wonder if a piston gun can ever be made as accurate as a DI gun? Truthfully, I'm betting on 3rd party there as well. As stated, LaRue makes the OBR. Not Colt. That's NOT an accident.
In closing I hope the comment about running out of the rain wasn't directed at me? If so, you'll never know how funny and not apropo that is. I'm a high-volume shooter. Real men scratch their guns and their balls.
But I'm not offended regardless.
TTR
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rsilvers</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There is no such thing as a 308 assault rifle. </div></div>
That was kinda my point. At least in theory. The M1A was designed with a mentality of much longer range than modern weapons. Also...some people are too quick to reference standard AR-15/16 characteristics while then referencing AR-10 characteristics That's getting too far away from reality in my humble opinion. Too different.
As for some of the SCAR talk in this thread...I dunno. Kinda new here. It seems the SCAR really elicits strong opinions. I'm not one to subscribe to that. Yes, I own one. I bought it since it seemed like it has real possibilities. My ego isn't invested in it though. If it falls off a cliff, I'll dump it. No skin off my back.
Perhaps people got on here and praised the SCAR without actually running one? Most "gun people" are that way truth be told. Reminds me of the 6.8 crowd I put up with for a few years. My response was always "we'll see....". I'm old. I've seen fads come and go.
As for me and the SCAR, I'm keeping an open mind and liking what I'm seeing so far. And I am interested in getting a 17 as well. Some co-workers switched to the 17 for call-outs and that really got my attention.
Do I think the SCAR has issues? Yes. I think the hinge issue is worth fixing. Not all that thrilled with the SCAR 17 specific mags, but 3rd parties are already addressing that. The market will decide what works. I am not thrilled with the reciprocating charging handle. And I wonder why the civilian version didn't have a non-reciprociating handle like the USMC IAR submission?
I also wonder if a piston gun can ever be made as accurate as a DI gun? Truthfully, I'm betting on 3rd party there as well. As stated, LaRue makes the OBR. Not Colt. That's NOT an accident.
In closing I hope the comment about running out of the rain wasn't directed at me? If so, you'll never know how funny and not apropo that is. I'm a high-volume shooter. Real men scratch their guns and their balls.
TTR
Re: SCAR 17S vs M1A
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TacticaltshirtsREP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It seems the SCAR really elicits strong opinions.
</div></div>
Well, thread is titled m1a vs scar and they both have rabid fanboys. So yeah it has gotten some hilarious reactions out of people.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TacticaltshirtsREP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It seems the SCAR really elicits strong opinions.
</div></div>
Well, thread is titled m1a vs scar and they both have rabid fanboys. So yeah it has gotten some hilarious reactions out of people.
Re: SCAR 17S vs M1A
TacticaltshirtsREP my running from the rain comment was to point out that these 2 rifles are worlds apart. The M14 is a GREAT rifle that does a lot of things good. It was designed to keep you alive in every worse condition. It doesn't have (ergonomics) or modern materials because they built this rifle before any of that was around. And its STILL very much actively serving on front lines worldwide alongside its long time partner M16.
I'm in no way saying a Scar is a good or bad weapon. I don't own one, and don't have an interest in one. In my opinion, is a Scar THAT much different than a M4/Ar15? What's the first thing that's done to these 2 I just listed? Hang every fork,knife,light,canteen on it just to shoot the same caliber round. 556.
Simply put, these rifles are total opposites. If comparing the same caliber (308) I don't think the recipient of the bullet or steel plate will say (damn I wishi would have been shot by that other rifle)
TacticaltshirtsREP my running from the rain comment was to point out that these 2 rifles are worlds apart. The M14 is a GREAT rifle that does a lot of things good. It was designed to keep you alive in every worse condition. It doesn't have (ergonomics) or modern materials because they built this rifle before any of that was around. And its STILL very much actively serving on front lines worldwide alongside its long time partner M16.
I'm in no way saying a Scar is a good or bad weapon. I don't own one, and don't have an interest in one. In my opinion, is a Scar THAT much different than a M4/Ar15? What's the first thing that's done to these 2 I just listed? Hang every fork,knife,light,canteen on it just to shoot the same caliber round. 556.
Simply put, these rifles are total opposites. If comparing the same caliber (308) I don't think the recipient of the bullet or steel plate will say (damn I wishi would have been shot by that other rifle)
Re: SCAR 17S vs M1A
Plus the fact alone that a very modern weapon is still being compared to it should say something.. lol
Plus the fact alone that a very modern weapon is still being compared to it should say something.. lol
Re: SCAR 17S vs M1A
I haven't had a lot of range time with the scar but I do have a m14 sage ebr with a krieger barrel it is truly a tac driver it was more expensive than the scar but i had mine custom built so that might have been part of the reason. If weight is an issue then i would go with the scar because by the time i put a bipod, cantalever scop mount rings and optic on my ebr it weighs a ton.
I haven't had a lot of range time with the scar but I do have a m14 sage ebr with a krieger barrel it is truly a tac driver it was more expensive than the scar but i had mine custom built so that might have been part of the reason. If weight is an issue then i would go with the scar because by the time i put a bipod, cantalever scop mount rings and optic on my ebr it weighs a ton.
Re: SCAR 17S vs M1A
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rsilvers</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The problem with the FAL is that there is no alignment with optics because the stock is the wrong shape. They are just not actually optics compatible, even though you can get a scope rail for them. You can put a RDS on them if you don't care about having a cheek weld (but I do care). In theory, an aftermarket stock can fix this, but I have never seen one I liked.
I would say the choices are SCAR 17, MWS (too heavy for me), SR25, PredatAR. </div></div>
what? fal is the only semi auto hi volume produced 308 that ive come across that is perfect for mounting an optic. the stock is perfect for it. mounts low and no need for a comb riser. all others,i.e m1a g3 etc. ive had to build a tactical pillow/tampon on the stock for height. i dont get your argument. sorry
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rsilvers</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The problem with the FAL is that there is no alignment with optics because the stock is the wrong shape. They are just not actually optics compatible, even though you can get a scope rail for them. You can put a RDS on them if you don't care about having a cheek weld (but I do care). In theory, an aftermarket stock can fix this, but I have never seen one I liked.
I would say the choices are SCAR 17, MWS (too heavy for me), SR25, PredatAR. </div></div>
what? fal is the only semi auto hi volume produced 308 that ive come across that is perfect for mounting an optic. the stock is perfect for it. mounts low and no need for a comb riser. all others,i.e m1a g3 etc. ive had to build a tactical pillow/tampon on the stock for height. i dont get your argument. sorry
Re: SCAR 17S vs M1A
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rsilvers</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There is no such thing as a 308 assault rifle. </div></div>
not to re-enforce a need to categorize specific platforms,but there may be some operators who run dsa carbines who would disagree?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rsilvers</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There is no such thing as a 308 assault rifle. </div></div>
not to re-enforce a need to categorize specific platforms,but there may be some operators who run dsa carbines who would disagree?
Re: SCAR 17S vs M1A
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: madppcs</div><div class="ubbcode-body">TacticaltshirtsREP my running from the rain comment was to point out that these 2 rifles are worlds apart. The M14 is a GREAT rifle that does a lot of things good. It was designed to keep you alive in every worse condition. It doesn't have (ergonomics) or modern materials because they built this rifle before any of that was around. And its STILL very much actively serving on front lines worldwide alongside its long time partner M16.
I'm in no way saying a Scar is a good or bad weapon. I don't own one, and don't have an interest in one. In my opinion, is a Scar THAT much different than a M4/Ar15? What's the first thing that's done to these 2 I just listed? Hang every fork,knife,light,canteen on it just to shoot the same caliber round. 556.
Simply put, these rifles are total opposites. If comparing the same caliber (308) I don't think the recipient of the bullet or steel plate will say (damn I wishi would have been shot by that other rifle) </div></div>
We are in agreement then. I am not a SCAR fan-boy by any means. I do own one and am testing it. A 16. It has potential. We'll see how it holds up.
The point I make about the SCAR is the same as yours, it is light-years different than the M1A. It is my informed opinion that people who spend any amount of time in CQB or clearing structures would not choose a M1A over anything. That's a huge difference. Since most people on here wouldn't run a rifle beyond 300-400 yards anyway.
If you want a 7.62 but want the ability to also run it in a CQB roll, the SCAR has serious potential.
The super accurate SCAR doesn't exist yet. Just because a 7.62 platform is made doesn't mean it can run across the course at Perry. It simply can't keep up. But in a LE Sniper role or DM, it works very well. But we'll see if the platform survives and matures. I am old enough to remember when the M-16/AR never was seriously looked at across the course. The M9 either for that matter. Now look how times have changed!
If I speak the truth about the SCAR, I also speak the truth about AR and M1A. The AR in M4 format and the AR in OBR format, might as well be two different rifles. They are very different and aren't interchangeable tools for the job at hand.
The M1A in sniper or DM format is quite mature and successful. Nobody argues that. The M1A in the the assault-rifle role has all kinds of problems. But if you say that, the M1A fans take it as an affront to their egos.
As someone who carries rifles over long distances and extended periods, I do have a weight bias. The only thing I ever hang on my rifles are Red-Dots (T1) and a light (current scout light but looking hard at the Surefire x300/400). I'll even remove or cut unused 1913 rails off my rifles to save weight. With that bias in mind, the SCAR rifles in 5.56 and 7.62 have serious potential. Also I find the piston system of the SCAR and maintenance schedule much nicer than my ARs. So far. Something MIGHT go wrong or change and I dump the whole system. And I won't hold back about it.
I have a reputation for kicking firearms makers in the ball-sack if they deserve it.
Happy New Year,
TTR
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: madppcs</div><div class="ubbcode-body">TacticaltshirtsREP my running from the rain comment was to point out that these 2 rifles are worlds apart. The M14 is a GREAT rifle that does a lot of things good. It was designed to keep you alive in every worse condition. It doesn't have (ergonomics) or modern materials because they built this rifle before any of that was around. And its STILL very much actively serving on front lines worldwide alongside its long time partner M16.
I'm in no way saying a Scar is a good or bad weapon. I don't own one, and don't have an interest in one. In my opinion, is a Scar THAT much different than a M4/Ar15? What's the first thing that's done to these 2 I just listed? Hang every fork,knife,light,canteen on it just to shoot the same caliber round. 556.
Simply put, these rifles are total opposites. If comparing the same caliber (308) I don't think the recipient of the bullet or steel plate will say (damn I wishi would have been shot by that other rifle) </div></div>
We are in agreement then. I am not a SCAR fan-boy by any means. I do own one and am testing it. A 16. It has potential. We'll see how it holds up.
The point I make about the SCAR is the same as yours, it is light-years different than the M1A. It is my informed opinion that people who spend any amount of time in CQB or clearing structures would not choose a M1A over anything. That's a huge difference. Since most people on here wouldn't run a rifle beyond 300-400 yards anyway.
If you want a 7.62 but want the ability to also run it in a CQB roll, the SCAR has serious potential.
The super accurate SCAR doesn't exist yet. Just because a 7.62 platform is made doesn't mean it can run across the course at Perry. It simply can't keep up. But in a LE Sniper role or DM, it works very well. But we'll see if the platform survives and matures. I am old enough to remember when the M-16/AR never was seriously looked at across the course. The M9 either for that matter. Now look how times have changed!
If I speak the truth about the SCAR, I also speak the truth about AR and M1A. The AR in M4 format and the AR in OBR format, might as well be two different rifles. They are very different and aren't interchangeable tools for the job at hand.
The M1A in sniper or DM format is quite mature and successful. Nobody argues that. The M1A in the the assault-rifle role has all kinds of problems. But if you say that, the M1A fans take it as an affront to their egos.
As someone who carries rifles over long distances and extended periods, I do have a weight bias. The only thing I ever hang on my rifles are Red-Dots (T1) and a light (current scout light but looking hard at the Surefire x300/400). I'll even remove or cut unused 1913 rails off my rifles to save weight. With that bias in mind, the SCAR rifles in 5.56 and 7.62 have serious potential. Also I find the piston system of the SCAR and maintenance schedule much nicer than my ARs. So far. Something MIGHT go wrong or change and I dump the whole system. And I won't hold back about it.
I have a reputation for kicking firearms makers in the ball-sack if they deserve it.
Happy New Year,
TTR
Re: SCAR 17S vs M1A
With the SCAR 17s currently $4500 to $5000 and a match grade M14 (not M1A) going for just north of $3000, plus SCAR mags going for $200, I give the advantage to the M14 at this time.
However, if prices ever normalize, go for the SCAR. I was going to buy three SCARs before the current gun scare got heated up. Now they are off my radar due to pricing.
With the SCAR 17s currently $4500 to $5000 and a match grade M14 (not M1A) going for just north of $3000, plus SCAR mags going for $200, I give the advantage to the M14 at this time.
However, if prices ever normalize, go for the SCAR. I was going to buy three SCARs before the current gun scare got heated up. Now they are off my radar due to pricing.
G
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Re: SCAR 17S vs M1A
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 500grains</div><div class="ubbcode-body">With the SCAR 17s currently $4500 to $5000 and a match grade M14 (not M1A) going for just north of $3000,
</div></div>
Where is it at, I have cash in hand for a real USGI M14, even a re-weld, let alone a Match grade at that price.
The last M14 I sold went for north of 14K. There are but 2 TRW's that I know of for sale right now. Asking right now, as I type this, One at 20K the other 26.5K + uncle,....like I said money in hand.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 500grains</div><div class="ubbcode-body">With the SCAR 17s currently $4500 to $5000 and a match grade M14 (not M1A) going for just north of $3000,
</div></div>
Where is it at, I have cash in hand for a real USGI M14, even a re-weld, let alone a Match grade at that price.
The last M14 I sold went for north of 14K. There are but 2 TRW's that I know of for sale right now. Asking right now, as I type this, One at 20K the other 26.5K + uncle,....like I said money in hand.
Re: SCAR 17S vs M1A
Not full auto.
But M14, not M1A. M1A is junk.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
M25 MEDIUM MATCH M25 RECEIVER. LRB BOLT. CRITERION BARREL CHOICE: 22" MEDIUM WEIGHT STAINLESS STEEL 1:11 TWIST OR 22" MEDIUM WEIGHT LRB/SACO-LOWEL CHROME MOLY 1:12 TWIST. NM MODIFIED FLASH SUPPRESSOR; NM FRONT SIGHT; NM REAR SIGHT; NM SPRING GUIDE; NM UNITIZED GAS CYLINDER (WELD); BOYDS WALNUT STOCK. 10rd OR 20rd MAGAZINE, SLING, MANUAL
M25MATCH-CM CHROME MOLY NM BARREL (SHOWN).....$3,090.85
M25MATCH-SS STAINLESS STEEL NM BARREL.....$3,090.85</div></div>
http://www.lrbarms.com/m14riflesstandard.html
Not full auto.
But M14, not M1A. M1A is junk.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
M25 MEDIUM MATCH M25 RECEIVER. LRB BOLT. CRITERION BARREL CHOICE: 22" MEDIUM WEIGHT STAINLESS STEEL 1:11 TWIST OR 22" MEDIUM WEIGHT LRB/SACO-LOWEL CHROME MOLY 1:12 TWIST. NM MODIFIED FLASH SUPPRESSOR; NM FRONT SIGHT; NM REAR SIGHT; NM SPRING GUIDE; NM UNITIZED GAS CYLINDER (WELD); BOYDS WALNUT STOCK. 10rd OR 20rd MAGAZINE, SLING, MANUAL
M25MATCH-CM CHROME MOLY NM BARREL (SHOWN).....$3,090.85
M25MATCH-SS STAINLESS STEEL NM BARREL.....$3,090.85</div></div>
http://www.lrbarms.com/m14riflesstandard.html
G
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Guest
Re: SCAR 17S vs M1A
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 500grains</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not full auto.
But M14, </div></div>
That is not a USGI M14.
Tell Lou I said hello, and thank him for the free shooting he provided us at Knob Creek when he first split from, MKS.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 500grains</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not full auto.
But M14, </div></div>
That is not a USGI M14.
Tell Lou I said hello, and thank him for the free shooting he provided us at Knob Creek when he first split from, MKS.
Re: SCAR 17S vs M1A
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rojkoh</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
It would seem you didn't do much research in using and getting accuracy out of a 14 type. I've worked on them since 75 starting with the Devine rifles and USGI NM barrels (which is all there was in those days).
Never met a 14 type I couldn't get accurate including shooting them in a 3 gun match against the ARs.
</div></div>
Cool, maybe you can help me then. First off mine jams like a sonofabitch when using a scope mount, second of all it will only group well when cold. After about 20 rounds my groups grow from about 1.5MOA to 3MOA stringing. Thoughts? It's a springfield loaded.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rojkoh</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
It would seem you didn't do much research in using and getting accuracy out of a 14 type. I've worked on them since 75 starting with the Devine rifles and USGI NM barrels (which is all there was in those days).
Never met a 14 type I couldn't get accurate including shooting them in a 3 gun match against the ARs.
</div></div>
Cool, maybe you can help me then. First off mine jams like a sonofabitch when using a scope mount, second of all it will only group well when cold. After about 20 rounds my groups grow from about 1.5MOA to 3MOA stringing. Thoughts? It's a springfield loaded.
Re: SCAR 17S vs M1A
I'd rather have an ACR if they ever make it in 6.5 Grendel.
Now THERE is a cartridge that has reach.
I'd rather have an ACR if they ever make it in 6.5 Grendel.
Now THERE is a cartridge that has reach.
Re: SCAR 17S vs M1A
In the cold, and firing those 20 round fairly quickly...they're going to string. It's an MBR...not a heavy barrel target rifle. When the barrel heats up you're going to see POI changes...period.
In the cold, and firing those 20 round fairly quickly...they're going to string. It's an MBR...not a heavy barrel target rifle. When the barrel heats up you're going to see POI changes...period.
Re: SCAR 17S vs M1A
16" ergos are fantastic, eats everything i feed it, does sub moa with m118
its exactly what i want.
16" ergos are fantastic, eats everything i feed it, does sub moa with m118
its exactly what i want.
Re: SCAR 17S vs M1A
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The Albino Rhino</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have fired a M1A much more than the SCAR but I would go with the SCAR based on the <span style="color: #FF6600">ergo dynamics</span>, perceived recoil and weight. All this is subjective, so take it with a grain of salt. </div></div>
Dammit, where is my Webster's!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The Albino Rhino</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have fired a M1A much more than the SCAR but I would go with the SCAR based on the <span style="color: #FF6600">ergo dynamics</span>, perceived recoil and weight. All this is subjective, so take it with a grain of salt. </div></div>
Dammit, where is my Webster's!
Re: SCAR 17S vs M1A
BigJoe, is that setup for light/medium barrel or heavy? And I assume no lug?
BigJoe, is that setup for light/medium barrel or heavy? And I assume no lug?
Re: SCAR 17S vs M1A
I own a 17s SCAR and it is okay, my wife has a 16 she loves it but i had a M1A1 super national match long time ago and was looking for another when the wife and i got the SCARS. I still like the old battle rifle and hitting humans with iron sights at 500 meters is easy, so i still want one! I aslo want a sniper version Scar i'm just spoiled child want all!!!
I own a 17s SCAR and it is okay, my wife has a 16 she loves it but i had a M1A1 super national match long time ago and was looking for another when the wife and i got the SCARS. I still like the old battle rifle and hitting humans with iron sights at 500 meters is easy, so i still want one! I aslo want a sniper version Scar i'm just spoiled child want all!!!
Re: SCAR 17S vs M1A
I own a 17s SCAR and it is okay, my wife has a 16 she loves it but i had a M1A1 super national match long time ago and was looking for another when the wife and i got the SCARS. I still like the old battle rifle and hitting humans with iron sights at 500 meters is easy, so i still want one! I aslo want a sniper version Scar i'm just spoiled child want all!!!
I own a 17s SCAR and it is okay, my wife has a 16 she loves it but i had a M1A1 super national match long time ago and was looking for another when the wife and i got the SCARS. I still like the old battle rifle and hitting humans with iron sights at 500 meters is easy, so i still want one! I aslo want a sniper version Scar i'm just spoiled child want all!!!
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