Gas systems ? Piston or direct impingement?

[Mag 300]

here is a quote from the Lewis machine tool catalog.
are the pistons a better way to go ?

Piston gas systems require less maintenance and
when increased reliability is a must. Because you want to spend more time firing
and less time cleaning, LMT®’s gas piston system runs cleaner and cooler
than its direct impingement counterpart. And since time is of the essence,
the Piston Weapon System offers the enhanced ease-of-assembly, disassembly, change in barrel
length or caliber, all within minutes. Failure is not an option with LMT’s Piston Weapon Systems

Your thoughts???

 

[ORD]

Re: Gas systems ? Piston or direct impingement?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bill Stoffels</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Your thoughts??? </div></div>

Thoughts? NOT ANOTHER @#$%ing DI VS. PISTON THREAD!!!

You'll get all sorts of argument, some anecdotal and some factual/proven data re: the pros/cons of one operating system versus another. With that said, essentially what they are claiming is accurate at least in part (although I'm sure that they can back up all their claims with some evidence just as others will try to refute it with other evidence). Piston guns don't $#!T where they eat like DI guns do so to speak, so arguably, they'll run cleaner for longer and require at least somewhat less maintenance than a comparable DI gun under like conditions, number of rounds fired, etc. Piston guns also run cooler than DI guns under sustained fire, which in turn will reduce wear/tear on components and potentially prevent catastrophic failures of components like gas tubes for one, etc. There have been tests on this issue of 1k of sustained fire in both platforms wherein the gas tube on the DI gun failed after ~400 rounds or so and failed to finish the test...just by way of one example.

As for "ease-of-assembly," etc., etc., etc....I don't see how the piston operating system, in and of itself, really makes change in barrel lengths, calibers, etc. any quicker/slower than a DI gun.

As for whether "one is better than the other"...well, they both have their merits and both have their drawbacks. Have a read through some of the heated discussions on this same topic and you'll see where some folks come down on the issue...but I'll save you some heavy reading time and tell you that there is no right (or wrong) answer, just differences of opinion!

Only you can weigh the evidence on DI vs. piston and determine which is the better option for you given your needs/wants/preferences.

 

[-Nick-]

Re: Gas systems ? Piston or direct impingement?

6 years on this board and you're asking of all things one of the most argued topics in the semi-auto world? Dude... maybe you shouldn't drink so much then come on the hide... lol

 

[KillShot]

Re: Gas systems ? Piston or direct impingement?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">6 years on this board and you're asking of all things one of the most argued topics in the semi-auto world? Dude... maybe you shouldn't drink so much then come on the hide... lol</div></div>
No shit, I second that. There's probably a half dozen of these threads on here.

 

[Igo]

Re: Gas systems ? Piston or direct impingement?

My vote goes to the piston setups. If you run suppressed and are a lefty you will know why the first time you squeeze one off. I have a couple of piston offerings from Stag and HK and both run very well. They run very cool and clean, that said there is still no gun that requires no cleaning, maybe just a little less often. Pistons will be heavier up front and slightly harder to find quadrails for but everyone is catching up with them now. Good luck.

 

[groundhogbuster]

Re: Gas systems ? Piston or direct impingement?

I have ran every piston setup made and compared results with every DI I own. If your looking for a "true" ff barrel go DI, If your not chasing accuracy a piston system works great. I run a cpl piston uppers (Adams/CMMG/Osprey etc. for plinking and carbine classes, but when I go after yotes and whistle pigs I carry my DI guns. I have yet to get my piston guns shoot with my DI, but they do shoot everytime. It was made to make the AR reliable, and 9 out of 10 times someone has a DI problem, they are cleaning/or magazine issues. The key to the gas gun is set up. Buffer weight being #1. I see way too many people with carbines running standard buffer's. Slap an H in there and no more hiccups. Also got an LWRC gun to work on and user said it wouldn't eject good. After I asked him 100 times if he had changed anything and him saying "NO" I noticed he had a new FH. Turned the piston up one notch and voila. I like to keep all my DI guns clean and a little wet, never a problem.
I spent months trying to get a piston gun same brrl as the DI to shoot as accurate, without results.

 

[Skeld1]

Re: Gas systems ? Piston or direct impingement?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KillShot</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">6 years on this board and you're asking of all things one of the most argued topics in the semi-auto world? Dude... maybe you shouldn't drink so much then come on the hide... lol</div></div>
No shit, I second that. There's probably a half dozen of these threads on here.

</div></div>

Probably should shut down the board since at this point most of these issues have been discussed many times already.

 

[Mag 300]

Re: Gas systems ? Piston or direct impingement?

Thank you for the infor I appreciate it . granted that all decisions are a personal preferance and with that said this will also be one . the reason I ask here is that there are many times that I have received extremely valuable comment, opinion, information etc about the rifle that I have already bought and sold.

Did not want to light a fire storm but the search did not come up with any good links.

Thanks again
Bill


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ORD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bill Stoffels</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Your thoughts??? </div></div>

Thoughts? NOT ANOTHER @#$%ing DI VS. PISTON THREAD!!!

You'll get all sorts of argument, some anecdotal and some factual/proven data re: the pros/cons of one operating system versus another. With that said, essentially what they are claiming is accurate at least in part (although I'm sure that they can back up all their claims with some evidence just as others will try to refute it with other evidence). Piston guns don't $#!T where they eat like DI guns do so to speak, so arguably, they'll run cleaner for longer and require at least somewhat less maintenance than a comparable DI gun under like conditions, number of rounds fired, etc. Piston guns also run cooler than DI guns under sustained fire, which in turn will reduce wear/tear on components and potentially prevent catastrophic failures of components like gas tubes for one, etc. There have been tests on this issue of 1k of sustained fire in both platforms wherein the gas tube on the DI gun failed after ~400 rounds or so and failed to finish the test...just by way of one example.

As for "ease-of-assembly," etc., etc., etc....I don't see how the piston operating system, in and of itself, really makes change in barrel lengths, calibers, etc. any quicker/slower than a DI gun.

As for whether "one is better than the other"...well, they both have their merits and both have their drawbacks. Have a read through some of the heated discussions on this same topic and you'll see where some folks come down on the issue...but I'll save you some heavy reading time and tell you that there is no right (or wrong) answer, just differences of opinion!

Only you can weigh the evidence on DI vs. piston and determine which is the better option for you given your needs/wants/preferences. </div></div>

 

[Mag 300]

Re: Gas systems ? Piston or direct impingement?

Yes, alcoholism is a terrible thing!!!!!!!!!!!!
arguements I dont care about, facts are a much better avenue.

Bill

 

[Mag 300]

Re: Gas systems ? Piston or direct impingement?

Thank you for a factual statement with out the "should have looked here"

Thanks
Bill

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Igo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My vote goes to the piston setups. If you run suppressed and are a lefty you will know why the first time you squeeze one off. I have a couple of piston offerings from Stag and HK and both run very well. They run very cool and clean, that said there is still no gun that requires no cleaning, maybe just a little less often. Pistons will be heavier up front and slightly harder to find quadrails for but everyone is catching up with them now. Good luck. </div></div>

 

[-Nick-]

Re: Gas systems ? Piston or direct impingement?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bill Stoffels</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes, alcoholism is a terrible thing!!!!!!!!!!!!
arguements I dont care about, facts are a much better avenue.

Bill </div></div>

Argument, discussion, debate... semantics. It's all the same on this topic. "Facts" given are usually more opinion based upon every unique users empirical knowledge. Fact is they're BOTH good platforms and they both have pros & cons. None of which IMO have to do with accuracy as much as which manufacturer you like better.

Add: Whats the intended use Bill? That goes a long way in which platform suits the need. You going to run it suppressed?

 

[Mag 300]

Re: Gas systems ? Piston or direct impingement?

Would like to start 3 gun comps but sadly here in the GREAT state if Illinois no supression allowed!!!!!!!!!
also checking int o the SR15

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broker</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bill Stoffels</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes, alcoholism is a terrible thing!!!!!!!!!!!!
arguements I dont care about, facts are a much better avenue.

Bill </div></div>

Argument, discussion, debate... semantics. It's all the same on this topic. "Facts" given are usually more opinion based upon every unique users empirical knowledge. Fact is they're BOTH good platforms and they both have pros & cons. None of which IMO have to do with accuracy as much as which manufacturer you like better.

Add: Whats the intended use Bill? That goes a long way in which platform suits the need. You going to run it suppressed? </div></div>

 

[SeaWolff]

Re: Gas systems ? Piston or direct impingement?

I have 4 buggaboos with the piston systems:
1. All the heat that is normally kept in the bolt carrier area is transferred out around the handguards and heat transfer eventually makes it to the handguards and they can become hot to the touch much faster than the DI stuff. My FN Scar was a good example of this. I don't care about pulling the carrier out and holdin it in my hand.
2. You still have to clean the piston. All that carbon fouling is moved from a nice big piece to clean (bolt carrier/bolt) to a small little piston. I've noticed carbon hardens alot quicker on the piston than it did on the bolt assembly. As on the FN Scar, I found myself having to clean from two ends of the gun which wasn't that fun.
3. Piston designs are different from manufacturer to manufacturer. If your piston assembly ever goes down, you will have to depend on the manufacturer you got yours from in more than likely. On DI stuff, its pretty much the same across the board.
4. I have been told by a few folks that have attended U.S. Training Center/Academi (formally Blackwater) AR/M4 armorers courses that they are all "anti piston" and their reasoning had to do with the bolt operation in the barrel extension and the carrier tilt. Most consumers will never shoot their piston guns enough to see the bad side effects. I had an FN Scar because I was hell bent on the piston system at the time and I wanted something that was designed around the piston. Due to the reasons stated earlier and a few other reasons, I sold it and purchased a Knights Armament SR-15 E3 Taupe Stoner rifle.

 

[WildBill3/75]

Re: Gas systems ? Piston or direct impingement?

Like others have said, the most talked about debate in ar-15's....google search or search on here will give you lots of results.

 

[CanPopper]

Re: Gas systems ? Piston or direct impingement?

I used to want a piston system but now with the component shortage and possible AR ban, I'm partial towards DI guns now. In a ban situation, I'll have a far easier time replacing my broken DI system components than I would a piston system.

The parts interchangability is top priority for me now.

 

[-Nick-]

Re: Gas systems ? Piston or direct impingement?

Bill I would imagine for 3 gun you'll want the lightest system possible. Since you're not running suppressed then the positive attribute of a piston system over a DI are negated. You're going likely be putting it through heavier use than normal and as others have stated parts may become an issue. I would go DI if it were me in your instance.