Greetings everyone, and happy new year to you all!
I am a LONG time lurker here on the hide, and relatively new poster. I lurked because I felt like I had way more to learn than I did to contribute, and so I've spent the last 2 years reading every forum on this (and other) sites. This one is by far the most respectful, and I feel has the most to offer someone like me who is just now starting to embrace the joys of long distance accuracy. I have a lot to learn, and I will continue to absorb the wealth of knowledge here. I thank you ALL for your contributions.
I have been an avid semi auto rifle enthusiast for many years, but really just considered myself an average to decent shot with the AR15's I built. I could hit the steel beyond 600 yards with my own handloads without issue, but never really considered the AR15 (in 5.56) an "accuracy" tool.
Recently (within the last year) I decided I wanted to transition to long distance shooting, and try to become good, if not great, at shooting up to and beyond 1000 yards some day.
Having read nearly every blog and website/forum out there that had anything to do with long distance shooting, I quickly became aware that there are probably better tools for that purpose than the .308, but I decided on .308 so that I could focus primarily on the basic fundamentals, shoot until my first .308 barrel was toast, and the step up into the .260 or 6.5 Creedmore. My feeling is that the .308 will allow me to reach out to 800 yards effectively, learn to shoot in the wind, learn the optics, but really and truly learn how to shoot well at 800 and in. I am on that journey now and I absolutely love it.
I thought it would be a good idea to start this thread, so that I had a place to share this journey with other shooters who may find themselves at the same place in their long range journey, and together with the experts that populate this website, we can hopefully learn how to get to the next level in our own space.
My rifle is a 24" Krieger attached to a Surgeon action sitting in a JAE 700 chassis. I have a Nightforce NXS 3.5-15x50 MLR2.
Here is a pic of the rig. It now has an Accu-Shot mono-pod which is not pictured here. I LOVE the mono-pod!
This past weekend, I went to the range with 40 of my own handloads and a box of (20) Hornady Match 168 AMAX rounds.
My hand loads were built as follows: (NEW) Winchester Brass F/L sized with Federal 210M primers, OAL was set at 2.208" base to ogive using Sierra 175MK's and I built a ladder (10 each) ranging from 46.5 to 47.5 grains of Hodgdon CFE 223 in half grain increments. I did not do a true ladder evaluation, but rather just wanted to see if I was able to find an accuracy node within the "ladder" so to speak and to test for pressure signs up to book (Hodgdon website) max loads using the CFE.
It was an awesome range trip, but it was cold as hell @ 38*f. For me that is bone chilling, but I am sure for a lot of you, that is shorts and flip flop weather. I get it.
At the lower charge weights, I did not think the CFE was anything to write home about, I am not showing the results of those first several shots using the lighter charge weights because as I mentioned, they were nothing to brag about. However, I did shoot the lighter loads first, and so there was the whole settling in and getting "right with myself" ritual for the first couple of magazines and first shots of the day. After I felt like I was right, and had my "game" on so to speak, things started to go pretty well. I would like to share some of the targets with you guys and get some feedback if you are so inclined to share it with me.
This first target is a 100 yard 5 shot group with 47gr of CFE:
This on any given day would be an astronomical group for me, and if I quit right there I would have been a satisfied man knowing that I (A) am getting at least a couple of things right, and (B) that my hand loads are relatively consistent.
It just kept getting better however at the 100 yard mark for me so I really tried to focus on my trigger work. What I am struggling with the most it seems, is the timing between heartbeats, and not forcing the trigger pull. There is an extreme sensory overload that I cannot seem to eliminate, right at the instant I start to pull the trigger. I focus on my breathing, my intention is to pull the trigger on respiratory pause, while timing my heart beats. That action, causes me to focus on my heart beat, and I overload myself mentally. None the less, the next (2) 5 shot groups, produced extraordinary results (for me). Here are those groups:
Both of these groups were shot using the Hornady 168 AMAX match bullets. Somehow, I was able to hold it together for both of those 5 shot groups. These 2 targets were stacked one above the other on the 100 yard board. After these 2 groups, I waited 15 minutes for the next cease fire so I could go retrieve both of these targets as they represent my best shooting to date with the .308 @ 100 yards. It should be noted that I went about this all wrong because I took one shot, got up from the bench to look through my spotting scope, then sat back down, took another shot, then got up to look through the scope, rinsed and repeated until all 5 shots were sent. I realized that after I got home that day, and really, I should have just spotted the shots through the rifle scope, but I did not do that. Next time....
After those 2 groups, I decided to see what I could do @ 200 yards.
The 200 yard target shows the result of (2) 5 shot groups, and here is where my complete unfamiliarity with my scope rears it's ugly head. Have a look at the target, and then I will share what went down just below the picture:
First, I will admit that I have no real concept of how how dial my scope. I am just not comfortable with it, and instead I rely on hold over marks. On this first shot @ 200 yards, I made the mistake of assuming that one large hash mark equaled 100 yards, when in fact, it equals 200 yards. As you can see the first shot was 4" high and 2" right. At this point, I took out my phone and loaded up the Strelok app which has the MLR reticle, but NOT the MLR2 (which my scope has). I had pre-configured the app with the predicted velocity reported by Hodgdon's load data and figured that would get me close. It (Strelok) showed me that a half tick down would have put me right on the money at 200 yards. So, armed with that info, I took the next 3 shots, all of which were still high by 2 inches. I stopped, took a few breaths, relaxed, and tried to hold steady for the 5th shot, and placed it in the ring at the 3 o'clock mark. That group was done. I was not as stoked as I was with the 100 yard groups, but I was also shooting the lighter loads, which also did not group well at 100 so I wrote that off to the fact that that bullet, at that charge weight just doesn't fly well out of my gun.
Finally, the second group at 200 yards was shot with my handloads @ 47gr of CFE under a 175MK in the Win brass with 210M's. As you can see, the 1st 3 of that group are touching, but perhaps because I kept getting up off the bench to check each shot through the spotting scope, or perhaps just because I pulled the shots a bit, the last 2 in the group are slightly lower but close to touching. Again, this was my best shooting at this distance with my .308, so I waited for a cease fire and went and retrieved the target.
I will state for the record, that I log each and every shot I take in a notebook that sits on the bench next to me. I draw 5 circles in a row on a line in the book, and I plot out each shot after I take it, by marking a dot on or around the circle relative to the POI. I also mark a "+" sign in the circle relative to where my reticle was when the gun went boom.
So, here we are. I asked for help and I hope that I have given you guys enough info about how I do things to at least allow you to critique a few things? I do (now) believe that I should stay put for the whole 5 shot string and focus on the next shot. I know I would probably see some improvements there.
I would LOVE to hear from you guys how I can go about getting the heartbeat/pulse movement under control? I can literally see my sight picture moving around with each beat of my heart, and when I feel like I try to fire between heartbeats, I find myself rushing the trigger pull. I also know that I need to understand my scope a little better and learn to dial for distance.
I think I have a fairly good grasp on the basic fundamentals, and have shown that when things go right, I can make 100 yard shots pretty well. I really need some help out beyond 200 yards tho and that is the focus of this post.
Anyway, thank you for reading, and thank you in advance for any feedback you might give me. It is all appreciated and I look forward to growing and improving.
I am a LONG time lurker here on the hide, and relatively new poster. I lurked because I felt like I had way more to learn than I did to contribute, and so I've spent the last 2 years reading every forum on this (and other) sites. This one is by far the most respectful, and I feel has the most to offer someone like me who is just now starting to embrace the joys of long distance accuracy. I have a lot to learn, and I will continue to absorb the wealth of knowledge here. I thank you ALL for your contributions.
I have been an avid semi auto rifle enthusiast for many years, but really just considered myself an average to decent shot with the AR15's I built. I could hit the steel beyond 600 yards with my own handloads without issue, but never really considered the AR15 (in 5.56) an "accuracy" tool.
Recently (within the last year) I decided I wanted to transition to long distance shooting, and try to become good, if not great, at shooting up to and beyond 1000 yards some day.
Having read nearly every blog and website/forum out there that had anything to do with long distance shooting, I quickly became aware that there are probably better tools for that purpose than the .308, but I decided on .308 so that I could focus primarily on the basic fundamentals, shoot until my first .308 barrel was toast, and the step up into the .260 or 6.5 Creedmore. My feeling is that the .308 will allow me to reach out to 800 yards effectively, learn to shoot in the wind, learn the optics, but really and truly learn how to shoot well at 800 and in. I am on that journey now and I absolutely love it.
I thought it would be a good idea to start this thread, so that I had a place to share this journey with other shooters who may find themselves at the same place in their long range journey, and together with the experts that populate this website, we can hopefully learn how to get to the next level in our own space.
My rifle is a 24" Krieger attached to a Surgeon action sitting in a JAE 700 chassis. I have a Nightforce NXS 3.5-15x50 MLR2.
Here is a pic of the rig. It now has an Accu-Shot mono-pod which is not pictured here. I LOVE the mono-pod!
This past weekend, I went to the range with 40 of my own handloads and a box of (20) Hornady Match 168 AMAX rounds.
My hand loads were built as follows: (NEW) Winchester Brass F/L sized with Federal 210M primers, OAL was set at 2.208" base to ogive using Sierra 175MK's and I built a ladder (10 each) ranging from 46.5 to 47.5 grains of Hodgdon CFE 223 in half grain increments. I did not do a true ladder evaluation, but rather just wanted to see if I was able to find an accuracy node within the "ladder" so to speak and to test for pressure signs up to book (Hodgdon website) max loads using the CFE.
It was an awesome range trip, but it was cold as hell @ 38*f. For me that is bone chilling, but I am sure for a lot of you, that is shorts and flip flop weather. I get it.
At the lower charge weights, I did not think the CFE was anything to write home about, I am not showing the results of those first several shots using the lighter charge weights because as I mentioned, they were nothing to brag about. However, I did shoot the lighter loads first, and so there was the whole settling in and getting "right with myself" ritual for the first couple of magazines and first shots of the day. After I felt like I was right, and had my "game" on so to speak, things started to go pretty well. I would like to share some of the targets with you guys and get some feedback if you are so inclined to share it with me.
This first target is a 100 yard 5 shot group with 47gr of CFE:
This on any given day would be an astronomical group for me, and if I quit right there I would have been a satisfied man knowing that I (A) am getting at least a couple of things right, and (B) that my hand loads are relatively consistent.
It just kept getting better however at the 100 yard mark for me so I really tried to focus on my trigger work. What I am struggling with the most it seems, is the timing between heartbeats, and not forcing the trigger pull. There is an extreme sensory overload that I cannot seem to eliminate, right at the instant I start to pull the trigger. I focus on my breathing, my intention is to pull the trigger on respiratory pause, while timing my heart beats. That action, causes me to focus on my heart beat, and I overload myself mentally. None the less, the next (2) 5 shot groups, produced extraordinary results (for me). Here are those groups:
Both of these groups were shot using the Hornady 168 AMAX match bullets. Somehow, I was able to hold it together for both of those 5 shot groups. These 2 targets were stacked one above the other on the 100 yard board. After these 2 groups, I waited 15 minutes for the next cease fire so I could go retrieve both of these targets as they represent my best shooting to date with the .308 @ 100 yards. It should be noted that I went about this all wrong because I took one shot, got up from the bench to look through my spotting scope, then sat back down, took another shot, then got up to look through the scope, rinsed and repeated until all 5 shots were sent. I realized that after I got home that day, and really, I should have just spotted the shots through the rifle scope, but I did not do that. Next time....
After those 2 groups, I decided to see what I could do @ 200 yards.
The 200 yard target shows the result of (2) 5 shot groups, and here is where my complete unfamiliarity with my scope rears it's ugly head. Have a look at the target, and then I will share what went down just below the picture:
First, I will admit that I have no real concept of how how dial my scope. I am just not comfortable with it, and instead I rely on hold over marks. On this first shot @ 200 yards, I made the mistake of assuming that one large hash mark equaled 100 yards, when in fact, it equals 200 yards. As you can see the first shot was 4" high and 2" right. At this point, I took out my phone and loaded up the Strelok app which has the MLR reticle, but NOT the MLR2 (which my scope has). I had pre-configured the app with the predicted velocity reported by Hodgdon's load data and figured that would get me close. It (Strelok) showed me that a half tick down would have put me right on the money at 200 yards. So, armed with that info, I took the next 3 shots, all of which were still high by 2 inches. I stopped, took a few breaths, relaxed, and tried to hold steady for the 5th shot, and placed it in the ring at the 3 o'clock mark. That group was done. I was not as stoked as I was with the 100 yard groups, but I was also shooting the lighter loads, which also did not group well at 100 so I wrote that off to the fact that that bullet, at that charge weight just doesn't fly well out of my gun.
Finally, the second group at 200 yards was shot with my handloads @ 47gr of CFE under a 175MK in the Win brass with 210M's. As you can see, the 1st 3 of that group are touching, but perhaps because I kept getting up off the bench to check each shot through the spotting scope, or perhaps just because I pulled the shots a bit, the last 2 in the group are slightly lower but close to touching. Again, this was my best shooting at this distance with my .308, so I waited for a cease fire and went and retrieved the target.
I will state for the record, that I log each and every shot I take in a notebook that sits on the bench next to me. I draw 5 circles in a row on a line in the book, and I plot out each shot after I take it, by marking a dot on or around the circle relative to the POI. I also mark a "+" sign in the circle relative to where my reticle was when the gun went boom.
So, here we are. I asked for help and I hope that I have given you guys enough info about how I do things to at least allow you to critique a few things? I do (now) believe that I should stay put for the whole 5 shot string and focus on the next shot. I know I would probably see some improvements there.
I would LOVE to hear from you guys how I can go about getting the heartbeat/pulse movement under control? I can literally see my sight picture moving around with each beat of my heart, and when I feel like I try to fire between heartbeats, I find myself rushing the trigger pull. I also know that I need to understand my scope a little better and learn to dial for distance.
I think I have a fairly good grasp on the basic fundamentals, and have shown that when things go right, I can make 100 yard shots pretty well. I really need some help out beyond 200 yards tho and that is the focus of this post.
Anyway, thank you for reading, and thank you in advance for any feedback you might give me. It is all appreciated and I look forward to growing and improving.
