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Desperately!Need some advice on a build gone wrong

S

strike33

Gunny Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Aug 3, 2012
2,870
201
44
Fort Leonard Wood, MO
I am having some possible legal issues with what I thought was a reputable shop.
I had to cancel one build due to it being over six months past the quoted time.
The other build was completed and didn't perform. He asked for it back to correct the problem free of charge.
Now I get a legal document stating that I will have to pay for the shipping for the rifle twice (once to me, then I paid to return it, now I have to pay to have it sent back)
In addition in order to get my refund which we initial agreed would be $3,210 and is now $2,255 I have to sign a confidentiality agreement stating that I won't discuss the matters that led to cancellation.

What should I do?

This is the response I got...Superior Tactical Solutions
"You are wasting your time with these emails. Also, I suggest that you stop wasting your time threatening to contact (or contacting) law enforcement agencies. I am confident that as a member of the law enforcemnt community, you are fully aware of the fact that this is a Civil Law matter. Further attempts at threats and intimidation through referencing this as though it is a criminal matter will acheive nothing for you. Both we and our attorneys are well aware of both state and federal law on this matter.

Our proposed settlement offer as described in the Project Completion and Settlement Agreement is hereby null and void. We do not agree to cancel your first order nor to give any discounts on your second order. Your rifles and components will be held until satisfactory payment in full for parts, services, and all fees associated with this matter has been made. You will be notified via legal service as to the amount owed and neccessary steps in order to have your rifles (and accessories) released.

If you do not agree with our records that $3945 has been paid via your credit card, then we would ask that you provide the date and amount charged for each transaction. We will be happy to review this and compare with our records for the transcations."

I need a lawyer who know how to handle these things
 
Re: Need some advice on a build gone wrong

sure is...he's sitting on close to 12,000 in parts and money I have sent him.

Does anyone know a lawyer in KY that could help?
the problem is, I'm stationed in Miami, but I'm PCSing to TX next month. I don't know how many states I'm going to have to involve.
Never again will I pay upfront
 
Re: Need some advice on a build gone wrong

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: strike33</div><div class="ubbcode-body">sure is...he's sitting on close to 12,000 in parts and money I have sent him.

Does anyone know a lawyer in KY that could help?
the problem is, I'm stationed in Miami, but I'm PCSing to TX next month. I don't know how many states I'm going to have to involve.
Never again will I pay upfront </div></div>

12k in parts... and your pcs'ing.... you must be a officer
 
Re: Need some advice on a build gone wrong

not at all my friend. E-6 which makes it that much harder. This took 14years of military service and saving to start and all to end this way
 
Re: Need some advice on a build gone wrong

lol better a e6 than a e4..... plus tomorrow i have to jump...foxtrot mike lima....

as per your situation...hold on let me get ahold of my brother
 
Re: Need some advice on a build gone wrong

Airborne! 5 years 82nd. Always good to meet a fello paratrooper.
Feet an knees together
 
Re: Need some advice on a build gone wrong

my brother is one of the blood suckers... so feel free to hit me up with any questions.... i build him weapons... he gives me legal advice.... lol fair trade....

JUMPERS.....HIT IT
 
Re: Need some advice on a build gone wrong

The letter is just a threat...You have no requirement to sign a confidentiality agreement...do not sign it, they can not hold your firearm hostage...they'll face civil action if they do.

1. what was the agreement regarding shipping, do you have it in writing?

assuming you need to pay shipping, just pay it. tell them you want your gun...no other agreements will be signed.

contact the states attorney general
 
Re: Need some advice on a build gone wrong

After the Remington failed to shoot, he asked to have the rifle back. That he would re-barrel it and send it back to me free of charge. Unfortunately I do not have this in writing. I do however having an email from him where he agrees to refund a total of $3210 of the $3945 I sent him for the original Defiance build. Now he says he will only refund $2255 and that I have to sign the agreement in order to get the refund.

So technically he cannot hold the remington because the amount of cash he has covers the cost and then some. I would be willing to negotiate over the amount to be refunded but I refuse to sign an agreement that prohibits me from warning others about his business ethics.

This is from the same guy who asked me to write up a review and post here after i received the rifle. Now that things haven't gone his way he wants to keep me from telling everyone the truth.
It sounds a lot like the issues with tactical rifles
 
Re: Need some advice on a build gone wrong

My advice would be to make some lawyer inquiries, but be ready to put this behind you. The one time I needed legal help, the fleet and family support center (FFSC) on base referred me to someone reputable to use. They usually refer you to someone that will at least listen to the particulars of your situation for no charge (a free initial consultation). If you can't find any attorneys even willing to to give you free consultation, move on.

Assuming they are willing to help you, things will probably get expensive. They will charge a few hundred dollars to prepare any legal correspondence, and you will need to provide a retainer if they are needed to litigate any action. Unless the shop you had your build done is huge, the attorney is probably not going to aggressively pursue a litigation because there just won't be that much money to obtain. Even if he is willing, the dollar amount you're looking to recoup is only $955. Assuming you're able to recoup any of that money, you're likely to spend this much on legal fees. And, you're going to have to fight this while your trying to get your affairs in order for a PCS move.

So, find a lawyer that will give you a free initial consult, see if there is anything he/she can do, evaluate how likely you are to recoup your money as well as your freedom to comment on his business practices, determine how much the legal route will cost (if there is a good chance of success), and compare that to how much you stand to lose already. My bet is that you're probably going to have to eat that $955 and move on.

Sorry this happened to you.
 
Re: Need some advice on a build gone wrong

Another option you may consider is to just have him send you the parts. You should be able to determine how much they cost. Pay for shipping and put this guy behind you. Have someone reputable (Gradous, C. Dixon, M. Gordon, GAP, APA, etc.) do your build with your supplied parts. Then, you'll only be out shipping costs. I know it's wasteful, but better than going through a bunch of legal hassle.
 
Re: Need some advice on a build gone wrong

Thanks sir,
I know that if this goes to litigation that it has the potential to get pricey.
Getting the parts is the problem, he never got the parts to complete the build (for over a year) just sat on my nearly $4,000.
I had to send him a second rifle to build off of so I could have something to shoot, then that rifle failed to perform.
My real issue isn't with the money, I can take a certain monetary hit as lesson but for someone to try and strong arm me into signing an agreement that I won't discuss the details of our transaction is ridiculous.
If he lived up to his end of the agreement to begin with I may have considered it, but to short change me and waste a year of my life then force me to keep my mouth shut about it really eats at me.
Right now one complete rifle system and nearly $4,000 is being held hostage.
This individual refuses to answer my phone calls or emails, but called my command to say he didn't like that I wouldn't sign it. Not to mention that i did concede to accept the refund as long as the confidentiality statement was removed. and I have not gotten a response.
I feel guilt in that I have recommended this individual to members here and now can not disclose the full details and warn them.

I do however appreciate the advice and support
 
Re: Need some advice on a build gone wrong

he can not hold your gun hostage. He can not require you to sign a confidentiality agreement.

Contact the states attorney general and let them know whats going on.

Have the rifle reported stolen and have a case filed in court for theft by services- could be a felony in this case...

Find a friend or someone here that's an attorney...may be able to get a significant discount.

you may get your rifle back, your money back and any attorneys fees
 
Re: Need some advice on a build gone wrong

Thanks for the help.
I'm currently working on a complaint with the Better Business Bureau and am working on getting things together to submit to the State Attorney General. I may be notifying the ATF as well in reference to a stolen firearms,
Thanks again for the support and advise, this whole ordeal seems to be one horrible nightmare
 
Re: Need some advice on a build gone wrong

Call the ATF and tell them that a rifle that belongs to you is with this guy and he refuses to return it. Unless he is claiming some kind of lien on it, he can't hold on to it. I would also be tempted to let the name of the shop out of the bag since there may be folks on here planning to send their rifles to him.
 
Re: Need some advice on a build gone wrong

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NSO123</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Call the ATF and tell them that a rifle that belongs to you is with this guy and he refuses to return it. Unless he is claiming some kind of lien on it, he can't hold on to it. I would also be tempted to let the name of the shop out of the bag since there may be folks on here planning to send their rifles to him.</div></div>


the ATF doesn't care about this civil matter... local police won't either
 
Re: Need some advice on a build gone wrong

You might be surprised. Just dealt with a problem involving some NFA items, and they were more than happy to help.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Force_Multiplier</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NSO123</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Call the ATF and tell them that a rifle that belongs to you is with this guy and he refuses to return it. Unless he is claiming some kind of lien on it, he can't hold on to it. I would also be tempted to let the name of the shop out of the bag since there may be folks on here planning to send their rifles to him.</div></div>


the ATF doesn't care about this civil matter... local police won't either
</div></div>
 
Re: Need some advice on a build gone wrong

I'm in Ky and I would sure like to know who the douche bag is to avoid having any work done there.
 
Re: Need some advice on a build gone wrong

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NSO123</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You might be surprised. Just dealt with a problem involving some NFA items, and they were more than happy to help.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Force_Multiplier</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NSO123</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Call the ATF and tell them that a rifle that belongs to you is with this guy and he refuses to return it. Unless he is claiming some kind of lien on it, he can't hold on to it. I would also be tempted to let the name of the shop out of the bag since there may be folks on here planning to send their rifles to him.</div></div>


the ATF doesn't care about this civil matter... local police won't either
</div></div></div></div>

NFA is a totally different matter... but have at trying...good luck
 
Re: Need some advice on a build gone wrong

Thanks for the replies. After a little research it turns out that the ATF has stopped by this shop in the past after another customer could not make contact and collect his rifle.
I feel that this community is fairly tight knit and we should be able to take a man at his word that things will be handled as described. But as always the dollar takes priority.
It seems that he wants to talk to everyone but me. Who calls the Public Affairs Office of a Military Command to complain...really?
You don't have the fortitude to answer my phone calls or emails but you will try and get my supervisors to persuade me to give in. Unfortunately for you sir, we are brothers in arms, we fight and die together, and we will not be bullied by individuals such as yourself.
 
Re: Need some advice on a build gone wrong

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LM308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm in Ky and I would sure like to know who the douche bag is to avoid having any work done there. </div></div>

Me too.
 
Re: Need some advice on a build gone wrong

Thanks for all the advice gents.
I filed a complaint with the Tri-State Better Business Bureau as an official way to get the warning out there. I'm trying to avoid involving law enforcement, but it appears that I am being left with no choice.
If I don't get a response back from him, I will be notifying the ATF as well as his local police department.
 
Re: Need some advice on a build gone wrong

Consider starting a thread "I need an attorney..."

Then post this link in there and ask for some PM's...I'm sure some attorney here could offer some assistance.
 
Re: Need some advice on a build gone wrong

If I don't get a response back from this charming individual today, I certainly will.
I've received zero responses from this man, to include some very reasonable offers to end this.
I guess I was a bit too naive to put my trust, equipment, money and time with this company. Lesson learned
 
Re: Need some advice on a build gone wrong

It sucks when this happens to you, hope everything turns out ok for you.

There was another thread last year similar to this and it included threatened legal action on this site towards lowlight. I can't find the thread now but i'm curious to see see if it's the same smith.
 
Re: Need some advice on a build gone wrong

I know that LL and Tactical Rifles have some deep seeded history. Luckily this is not them. Unfortunately it means that there is another shop out there taking advantage of people. As soon as I can get things settled (which doesn't seem likely anytime soon) I will disclose the full dealings with the particular individual and the shame shop he calls a business.
 
Re: Need some advice on a build gone wrong

Its too bad you cant go up there Find a local news crew and have them go with you in person to collect your stuff .

The other thing I would recommend is get a hold of Clark Howard he has a website and he has helped allot of other people who have gotten screwed by businesses look him up
 
Re: Need some advice on a build gone wrong

If your intent is to not sign the nondisclosure letter, I see no reason why you could not let the forum know who this individual is.
 
Re: Need some advice on a build gone wrong

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: strike33</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
It seems that he wants to talk to everyone but me. Who calls the Public Affairs Office of a Military Command to complain...really?
</div></div>

You have GOT to be M'ing F'ing kidding me!?! He did what?!?

I'm still wading through this thread so I am not certain this hasn't been suggested clearly already. But here is a list of people who will want to take your call on this:

1. Whatever state he resides in, that state has an attorney general. Contact their office and lodge a complaint that this guy is not giving you your firearm back.

2. Whatever county is the said state he is located in, contact that county's prosector's office (aka state's attorney) and lodge the same complaint.

3. Contact the controlling legal authority in the county he resides in and lodge the same complaint. Be it county sheriff or if it's a metro PD. Once there, and depending on how large that agency is, you can zero in on the command you are looking for: Major crimes, Organized crime, or possibly a financial crimes section.

4. Find the closest BATFE field office in that state and lodge the same complaint.

Letters don't hurt either. Make a complete list of the issues and the time lines involved. Include value of items as that can determine various command's jurisdiction over the issue. On all of these letters, you WILL include a CC list of all the other agencies you are contacting at the same time.

This creates, what we call in a bureaucracy, Musical Chairs. And when the music stops, nobody wants to be left standing being asked why THEY didn't get in front of this issue?

If I was in your shoes, an E-6, and somebody called my command about a firearm's transaction, it's game on. We both know how crappy firearms issues can be from post to post. And this guy SHOULD know better. This has potential to be a major cluster-fuck on your end for no reason other than his selfish ego.

This has gone WAY beyond cry-baby bullshit and "for $XXXX dollars I should get my dick sucked". This is major fucking with people's lives here. I'm upset for you and this needs to stop.

TTR
 
Re: Need some advice on a build gone wrong

Not too hard to figure out who the 'smith is if you search his previous posts. I hope everything works out.
 
Re: Need some advice on a build gone wrong

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TacticaltshirtsREP</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: strike33</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
It seems that he wants to talk to everyone but me. Who calls the Public Affairs Office of a Military Command to complain...really?
</div></div>

You have GOT to be M'ing F'ing kidding me!?! He did what?!?

I'm still wading through this thread so I am not certain this hasn't been suggested clearly already. But here is a list of people who will want to take your call on this:

1. Whatever state he resides in, that state has an attorney general. Contact their office and lodge a complaint that this guy is not giving you your firearm back.

2. Whatever county is the said state he is located in, contact that county's prosector's office (aka state's attorney) and lodge the same complaint.

3. Contact the controlling legal authority in the county he resides in and lodge the same complaint. Be it county sheriff or if it's a metro PD. Once there, and depending on how large that agency is, you can zero in on the command you are looking for: Major crimes, Organized crime, or possibly a financial crimes section.

4. Find the closest BATFE field office in that state and lodge the same complaint.

Letters don't hurt either. Make a complete list of the issues and the time lines involved. Include value of items as that can determine various command's jurisdiction over the issue. On all of these letters, you WILL include a CC list of all the other agencies you are contacting at the same time.

This creates, what we call in a bureaucracy, Musical Chairs. And when the music stops, nobody wants to be left standing being asked why THEY didn't get in front of this issue?

If I was in your shoes, an E-6, and somebody called my command about a firearm's transaction, it's game on. We both know how crappy firearms issues can be from post to post. And this guy SHOULD know better. This has potential to be a major cluster-fuck on your end for no reason other than his selfish ego.

This has gone WAY beyond cry-baby bullshit and "for $XXXX dollars I should get my dick sucked". This is major fucking with people's lives here. I'm upset for you and this needs to stop.

TTR


</div></div> Thanks! this was a good read. I will contacting law enforcement agencies as well as the state Attorney General. I've given him enough opportunities, to include agreeing to the reduced refund that he offered and have yet to get a reply.
I'll compose another official complaint and get it off to by Monday.
Thanks to everyone for the advice and support
 
Re: Need some advice on a build gone wrong

Gents,
Thanks to everyone for the support and guidance.
A formal complaint has been lodged with both the Better Business Bureau and the State Attorney General.

To the professionals who have been kind enough to chime in:
If you guarantee your product to perform to a certain level and it doesn't not meet that, then you request that the rifle be returned to you to correct the problem would charge the customer for the following:
Shipping all three ways
the cost of a new barrel
the cost to install that barrel
the cost to thread and install a customer supplied brake
the cost to refinish the barrel

Am I being unreasonable to assume that if he tells me that he would re-barrel the rifle for free (blaming the poor performance on the Rock Creek Barrel which he chambered and installed) that I should not be charged for these things?
 
Re: Need some advice on a build gone wrong

This is what he is withholding from me
Cadex Defense Strike 33 Chassis $2199
USO 5-25 T-pal $3686
Alamo Four Star DCLW w/DLOC $498
Atlas Bipod AC BT10-LW17 $279.99
Eberlestock Sled Drag Bag Multicam $389
Storm IM3300 $229.99
Battle Arms BAD-MRAD muzzle brake $125
PWS PRC muzzle brake $99.99
Accuracy International AICS 300WM magazine $89

Monetary Payments $3945
total $11,540.97

Plus the Blue Printed Remington 700 long action barreled action I sent him.
Hopefully one of these agencies can help, short of hiring a lawyer which I can't afford because this guy has all my money, I'm at a loss
 
Re: Need some advice on a build gone wrong

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: seanh</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Have the rifle reported stolen and have a case filed in court for theft by services- could be a felony in this case...</div></div>Graham's Rule #1 applies.

Especially when the advice you are being given is to commit a crime.
wink.gif
 
Re: Need some advice on a build gone wrong

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: seanh</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Have the rifle reported stolen and have a case filed in court for theft by services- could be a felony in this case...</div></div>Graham's Rule #1 applies.

Especially when the advice you are being given is to commit a crime.
wink.gif
</div></div>

I'm glad you guys can appreciate my pain. I move to TX in a couple of weeks. Was seriously contemplating taking a short detail to this shop. But then I'll need some real legal representation!
thanks guys
 
Re: Need some advice on a build gone wrong

Something's not right here: What's he doing with your scope and drag bag anyway?
 
Re: Need some advice on a build gone wrong

According to his emial he is keeping until I pay for services on both rifle. This makes absolutely no sense. Anyone know an attorney that can help a soldier out
 
Re: Need some advice on a build gone wrong

The only thing Superior Tactical has supplied is one Spuhr mount and if you want to say the second barrel and the multicam dip. Everything else I purchased and shipped to him. Thats over 10,000 that have have provided. And he says he is keeping it all
 
Re: Need some advice on a build gone wrong

You're right: It makes no sense. Even if he has a lien on the rifle for work he has done, he would have no right to keep the scope and accessories that have nothing to do with the build.

Have a look at the fraud statute: You may be eligible for treble damages for what is being wrongfully withheld.
 
Re: Need some advice on a build gone wrong

If the cash hit does not bother you sign the confidentiality agreement, get your shit and cash back and bash the hell out of him anyway...unless the agreement has a venue provision, the jerk off is going to have to sue you in FL, and unless it has a liquidated damages clause, he will have to pay a small fortune to an expert economist to establish damages. In all likelihood, he will not have the resources to do either.

The above is for entertainment purposes only and should not be relied upon as legal advice. For actual legal advice, consult a KY lawyer.
smile.gif
 
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