• Watch Out for Scammers!

    We've now added a color code for all accounts. Orange accounts are new members, Blue are full members, and Green are Supporters. If you get a message about a sale from an orange account, make sure you pay attention before sending any money!

NEED ADVICE: Private Range Shut Down by Sherif

patches

patches

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Feb 13, 2009
685
7
41
Wichita KS
www.smtco.biz
Gentlemen-

I have never run into a situation like this before. My wife, who is a lawyer, was in disbelief. Any advice would be great, here's the situation:

I have a 900 yard range that we shoot at on family land which is positioned in the middle of a wheat field. The land has been in our family for over 80 years. There is a caretaker of the farmstead that the family gave five acres to build his own house. His 5 acre lot is almost a quarter mile from where were are shooting. The next closest house is two miles away. We shoot facing two more miles of wheat fields. No houses in that direction. We go out there about once a month at the very most due to work restraints. Usually we are out there for less than two hours.

Today we are out there for 15 minutes and the sherif drives up and literally says, "pack up your shit you can't shoot here any more." No lie. That sentence is verbatim.....

Needless to say that did not sit well with me. I began to question him, and his reasoning was that a round could ricochet and go off course and kill someone.... I'm dead serious..

He told me that I can't guarantee him where those bullets were going. I asked if hunting was legal in the area (which I knew it was) and he said yes. I informed him that those hunters can no more guarantee where their bullets were going more than I could.

I was informed that if he caught me shooting out there again he would, "haul my ass to jail." When I asked why, he said for, "failure to comply." "Comply with what?" I said. He told me he didn't have to answer my question and that I was being rude to my neighbor. (the caretaker)

I find out that the caretaker called him because he didn't think we should shoot out there. It's the craziest thing. My folks and grand-folks agree to give him 5 acres to build a house and now he's calling the sherif.

I have permission to shoot out there and have been doing so for the past 5 years. When I talked with the caretaker he told me he was worried about a stray bullet killing someone........ Two miles away...... 3 o'clock from the direction we were shooting..... He was also concerned about his six cows that are 9 o'clock from the direction we shoot over a quarter mile away.

The sad part is I can't get rid of him. The contract for his land states he can live there until death then after his death the land will go back to our family. He also told me he will continue to call the sherif if I show up again.

My father (the trustee of the land after the grand-folks death) called me today to tell me he's coming down so we can shoot trap out there together next week....

The sherif was insanely rude, wouldn't answer questions, or tell me what I was doing wrong. The last thing I need is trouble with the law but at the same rate I'm not going lay-down and give up.

Sorry for the long story. I wish there was a cliff-notes version. Any thoughts?
 
Re: NEED ADVICE: Private Range Shut Down by Sherif

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: patches</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The contract for his land states he can live there <span style="font-weight: bold">until death</span> then after his death the land will go back to our family. He also told me he will continue to call the sherif if I show up again.

Any thoughts? </div></div>

Well aside from the obvious (^^^). In reality, as long as you're legal I'd keep shooting and get your wife to get ready to bail you out and file suit/an injunction against the sheriff. If you're really legal, and I bet you are, the sheriff doesn't have shit on you so you might as well push the issue now before the new gun laws come into play or wait for this fucker to die.

P.S. I think it's pretty spineless to do what he did instead of just coming and talking to you. I would make kicking him off your land my new hobby.

 
Re: NEED ADVICE: Private Range Shut Down by Sherif

you wife is a lawyer.. and you're asking us what to do... have her start filing....

if you father is the trustee, he can be the trust's rep as plaintiff...

sounds like the "caretaker" probably can't afford a court battle, and the Sheriff's Office probably doesn't want one...
 
Re: NEED ADVICE: Private Range Shut Down by Sherif

I would erg the wifey to start filing. I would also have Dad come out shooting with you as often as he can. I would also let said ass whip know that if he didn't like us shooting on our own land he has every right to move! I would also inform deputy dog of the same and tell him in no uncertain terms that as legal owners of said property and that the complainant is not a legal owner an if has the right to leave at any time.
 
Re: NEED ADVICE: Private Range Shut Down by Sherif

My wife does not practice, she writes the education budget for K-12 here in KS. She says the same thing. Basically that there was no law broken on my behalf. I've never had a problem with law enforcement until today. We're going to look into a harassment filing. The caretaker is on my shit list. I need to read-over his contract but it basically states that he can have the 5 acres for his house as long as he takes care of the farm house and surrounding property which is currently vacant. Upon his death (which can 't come soon enough) the land shall be transferred back to the family. My goal will be to prove he has not held his half of the contract due to the condition of the property. He's on my shit list. I have plenty of time and money to make his life interesting.
And yes, when I talked to the caretaker I did inform him he was a gutless wonder. Among some other colorful words.

I plan to shoot trap out there later this week, so it may get exciting. The sherif's name in Kingman county is Jan. I'm sure we will get to see each other again.
 
Re: NEED ADVICE: Private Range Shut Down by Sherif

I would invite everyone I know to come over and shoot. Fuck em. If it's your land and it is legal I would press the issue especially if I had a lawyer in the family
 
Re: NEED ADVICE: Private Range Shut Down by Sherif

A. Don't ever talk to the care taker again. That will only harm your position.

B. If it's legal (you have land requirement via the state) shoot anyways. Practice safety, don't intimidate your land guy.

C. Document EVERYTHING!

D. The cop that came out, does he have family/friend relations with the care taker? Next time, request another officer come out. Or request the PIO come out. If what's going on is a purely (buddy boy helping buddy boy situation) get documentation.

I am not a lawyer, and my advice is by no means legal advice. I have had run ins with law enforcement where the department in question over stepped their bounds (unlawfully detaining minors in an attempt to find information unlawfully.) [Since, it took a loooooonnnnnnngggg time, I have restored my faith in LEO's; but, look out, your situation sounds very fishy if you are telling everything.]

I don't mean to start a fight. Just be careful. Document everything via multiple parties.
 
Re: NEED ADVICE: Private Range Shut Down by Sherif

I know it may take some time, but I've tagged this post and would love to hear updates as they happen. Just interested.

Good luck!
 
Re: NEED ADVICE: Private Range Shut Down by Sherif

Doesn't caretaker duties involve a lot of work? Like that berm he needs to be working on...I agree with going after the caretaker contract - have it reviewed very carefully by an employment lawyer in your state - not meant as a disrepect towards your wife, I know you don't want to mess this up at all!
 
Re: NEED ADVICE: Private Range Shut Down by Sherif

Would not shoot again unless I was accompied by a couple of witness in case, the LEO showed up and started the BUBBA SHERIFF routine of intimidation, recording the conversation may be beneficial, as far as the caretaker cattle, are they pastured on his 5 acres ot doe he rent pasture from the family, if so terminate the rent and get his cattle off you land. He should undrstand that he is a "guest" on your family land as long as he lives. He does not own that five acres, he only has a life estate. who pays the real estate tax for the land? This should be a lesson well heeded for any one else. If you OWN realestate and enter into a similar agreement with anyone the consequences can not always be to your best interest. Good Luck
 
Re: NEED ADVICE: Private Range Shut Down by Sherif

When I was a deputy in Okla. we used to get calls like this all the time. Unless Kansas is different from Ok. all we did is contact the persons in question, advise them of the complaint and make sure that they were shooting in a safe direction. Haul a dumptruck of dirt and dump it on one edge of the field and set up your targets. Problem solved.
 
Re: NEED ADVICE: Private Range Shut Down by Sherif

" as long as he takes care of the farm house and surrounding property which is currently vacant"

Sounds like he might not be keeping the place up to the standards of the trustee...
 
Re: NEED ADVICE: Private Range Shut Down by Sherif

The caretaker is definitely at shitbag. How did this asshat talk your family into the 5 acre use? I agree with the other members, research your legal aspects for firearms discharge within so many feet of a residence or state/county roadway.
If all else fails start putting the fucks to the caretaker on his job performance or lack thereof if possible.
 
Re: NEED ADVICE: Private Range Shut Down by Sherif

The caretaker, like some long term tenants think they OWN the property and they are doing you a favor with the services they provide....WRONG. they are a guest, at the landowners discretion. I would make it a personal and family vendetta to make his life miserable, so miserable that he prays to forget the Sheriffs phone number, everyone needs a project to keep them occupied, make this your project. Just remember eveything is temporary, nothing is permanent, for everything is constantly changing, Law of Physics,(sort of).
 
Re: NEED ADVICE: Private Range Shut Down by Sherif

The following is based upon what you said were the dep's first words.

Do not deal with that flunky of a dep. In fact if it were I the first thing I'd do is check the S/O log to see if it was a legit call and if not, check to see of him (Dep)and and the caretaker know each other. I believe the caretaker is lacking in his duties, and your father should check into that as well.
Next go to the top of the S/O's food chain, an by pass the "you can not do that on your own land". Many elected have a phobia about being reelected. When the voters find out the "law" is now telling you what you can and can not do on your own property, most have issue with that. Everybody is still riding the ban all guns wave, and it sounds like dep Fife would be the first one shot trying to do a cop gun grab.
If in fact those were his first words, he needs time on the couch or fired. A law enforcement officer will never open dialog that way. A Cop will, if he has and agenda or is inviting/wanting to provoke someone, so he/she can show their power. There is a difference between a Law enforcement officer and a cop. Check out his boss view's, about this person as well. Most who have contact the LE, assume they are all the same, which is 110% incorrect. Might be eye opening to the top shirt, and/or another item for dep/d's jacket to add insight for when reviews, or law suites come around.
 
Re: NEED ADVICE: Private Range Shut Down by Sherif

Same thing happened to me on my 50 acres. I was shooting on private property ( gate closed) and 3 deputies pull up. I put my weapon down and walk over to them. They did not come past the closed gate. I reminded them it was private property and we had berms to shoot into. They basically said have a nice day and left.

Turns out that an elderly lady neighbor called them and told them I was shooing a full auto ( two of us out there with bolts and semis).

Do you have a gated entrance with a private property sign? As long s you are on your own property , out of the city limits, shooting in a safe direction, I don't think he can do anything but sound intimidating. I might take a pocket recorder for a while to record future encounters with this idiot.
 
Re: NEED ADVICE: Private Range Shut Down by Sherif

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: beenjammin</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I might take a pocket recorder for a while to record future encounters with this idiot.

</div></div>

Or better yet, a video recorder stashed behind the first row of corn or the like would be awesome.
 
Re: NEED ADVICE: Private Range Shut Down by Sherif

Sheriffs can charge you, but the county attorney has to prosecutor.

First thing I would do is contact the county attorney and get his reading.

I don't know the laws and zoning in KS but he does.

When I retired I wanted a place where I could shoot. When I found this place I spent three days in the court house researching zoning and covenants. There was none. I checked with the neighbors and at the time, all of them shot.

So I've been here shooting for 19 years. Only one (new neighbor) called the sheriff. That didn't pan out, he told her if the nose bothered her, she should move to town.

(Now she shoots)

Anyway, I believe the county attorney is the one who you should direct your questions too.
 
Re: NEED ADVICE: Private Range Shut Down by Sherif

Thanks for the responses. I'll fill in the blaks for some people's questions. I didn't get much sleep over this las night as I was still pretty pissed off. Maybe four hours or so.

This is in the small town of Norwich. Everyone literally knows everyone. They play eight man football still and when I was having breakfast with the football coach and the diner a couple years ago he was excited because he had a big senior class of boys which was 15.... Very small community. I don't live there, never have, never will, although it is a very charming place to some. With that said, the caretaker and dept sherif Jan know each other well. They go to the same church and their kids went to school together.

The caretaker in question weaseled his way into my grandparents hearts after the death in a family. When they moved he asked for a job taking care of the old farm. After years of telling them how much he loved the place he convinced them to give him 5 acres for a lifetime of his "services." He basically mows, feeds the horse, and touches up paint.... And is a giant pain in my ass. We have never gotten along. He treats the place like it's his, and whenever I'm out there he's not far behind to question my intensions. My grand-folks couldn't care less what I do out there. I could run around naked all day and they wouldn't give a shit.

I've already decided I'm going to have a berm built, I'll be in touch with the sherf department to file a case, request another sherif next time sherif Jan shows up, and continue to shoot frequently. I should have a copy on the caretaker's contract in my hands in the next couple days as well. I was also informed this morning that my name is in the trust for the farm as well. I just need to take a look as that may not result to much.

Thanks for everyone's input.
 
Re: NEED ADVICE: Private Range Shut Down by Sherif

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kraigWY</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sheriffs can charge you, but the county attorney has to prosecutor.

First thing I would do is contact the county attorney and get his reading.

I don't know the laws and zoning in KS but he does.

When I retired I wanted a place where I could shoot. When I found this place I spent three days in the court house researching zoning and covenants. There was none. I checked with the neighbors and at the time, all of them shot.

So I've been here shooting for 19 years. Only one (new neighbor) called the sheriff. That didn't pan out, he told her if the nose bothered her, she should move to town.

(Now she shoots)

Anyway, I believe the county attorney is the one who you should direct your questions too. </div></div>

I will be in touch with them as well. The dept sherif showed up wearing a camo t-shirt and jeans with a baseball cap making me thing this was an off duty call....
 
Re: NEED ADVICE: Private Range Shut Down by Sherif

Definitely look into the 'caretaker' contract. If this asshat is supposed to be working, wear him the hell out, so much so that he will say,"screw this", and leave. I would start by making his sorry ass build the berm, then the shooting tables and trap house, dig drainage ditches ALL OVER THE PROPERTY, and make sure you place a deadline on each project such that it can only be done in an 8 hour day with two 15 minute breaks and a 1 hour lunch break. Like I said, wear his ass out, make him earn every minute of relaxation with sweat and hard work
 
Re: NEED ADVICE: Private Range Shut Down by Sherif

I forgot to mention there is no gate or fence around the property. It's a simple wheat field.
 
Re: NEED ADVICE: Private Range Shut Down by Sherif

My first thought is does he have deeded in fee simple title to the five acres or does he have a Life Estate to the acreage. There is a world of difference between the two. You mentioned the land reverted back to the family upon his death?, then you mention he was given the 5 acres, which is correct? What are his duties as a "caretaker", The trustee of the Farm needs to have a "Come to Jesus" talk with him and explain his predicament.
 
Re: NEED ADVICE: Private Range Shut Down by Sherif

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AREAONE</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My first thought is does he have deeded in fee simple title to the five acres or does he have a Life Estate to the acreage. There is a world of difference between the two. You mentioned the land reverted back to the family upon his death?, then you mention he was given the 5 acres, which is correct? What are his duties as a "caretaker", The trustee of the Farm needs to have a "Come to Jesus" talk with him and explain his predicament. </div></div>


Why would anybody give a caretaker with temporary ownership 'fee simple' like access? That doesn't seem like something anybody would do being that the term of 'ownership' is temporary. That's a legit question. I can't think of any reason somebody would do such a thing.
 
Re: NEED ADVICE: Private Range Shut Down by Sherif

I was with Mr.Patches while this whole situation went down both times. I wanna start out buy saying this was the most unprofessional act from a person let alone a law inforcement officer I have ever witnessed in my life. The first encounter from the offercer was just a "hey we are getting complaints" situation but was getting dark and we were already packing up so no clash was needed. The second encounter was completely opposite he approached the truck with a bad attitude throwing threats around, fowl language, talking down to patches and myself. With this I was shocked but not my land so I will stay quiet and witness everything and play (NINJA) let patches do what he does best and state facts that prove neither POS (land care taker) and POS worthless sheriff (that being the cop) know anything that they are talking about and that one of them is a spineless coward that hides behind a spineless sheriff that hides behind his badge. You could tell the officer didn't want a fight with patches facts cause he threatened us one last time to haul us in and he jumped in his truck (in regular clothes) and drove off. So I will keep all updates as I'm am sure patches will do the same. Thanks for all the advice to help the situation
 
Re: NEED ADVICE: Private Range Shut Down by Sherif

Is he the sheriff, or a deputy??
 
Re: NEED ADVICE: Private Range Shut Down by Sherif

Sorry for the confusion. The cop is simply a sherif deputy. Not the actual sherif.

And yes. It was crazy to let him have 5 acres.

The caretaker took care of the property for a long time. For his services (taking care of the lawn, horse and buildings on the old farm) he was "given" 5 acres in the corner of a pasture to build a house. I do not have the actual contract yet, but from what I am told by my grandparents the contract states that he is not allowed to sell the land, and upon his death, the land shall be transfered back to our family. Basically he couldn't afford to buy land and build a little cheap house, but always wanted to live in the country. He was in good with the grandparents until recently when he got his ass in trouble for trying to run his cattle outside the 5 acres that was "his". He basically tried to let his cattle graze the wheat field around his house which is not part of his 5 acres. Now they are confined to a small pen by his shed. That did not go over well with him.

The family is outraged by these current events as I have been in touch with all of them. I will have my hands on his contract hopefully very soon. My wife specializes in contract law and works with it daily for school budget contracts.

I am making it my personal mission from this point forward to fix his wagon and send him packing.
 
Re: NEED ADVICE: Private Range Shut Down by Sherif

make him fix his own damn wagon.
laugh.gif
 
Re: NEED ADVICE: Private Range Shut Down by Sherif

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Switchblade</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Definitely look into the 'caretaker' contract. If this asshat is supposed to be working, wear him the hell out, so much so that he will say,"screw this", and leave. I would start by making his sorry ass build the berm, then the shooting tables and trap house, dig drainage ditches ALL OVER THE PROPERTY, and make sure you place a deadline on each project such that it can only be done in an 8 hour day with two 15 minute breaks and a 1 hour lunch break. Like I said, wear his ass out, make him earn every minute of relaxation with sweat and hard work </div></div>

I'm with Switch: wear that dude out! If he wants to live rent free out in the country, then it's only fitting he works commensurate to that agreement. I'd definitely have him build the berm and the target stands. Then have him build the shooting positions. And by all means, I think your drainage ditches could use an overhaul. Make him beg to leave and take his cows with him.

Man, your grandparents tried to do a nice thing and he has to act like a dickhead... nothing stinks so badly as ingratitude.
 
Re: NEED ADVICE: Private Range Shut Down by Sherif

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: patches</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I forgot to mention there is no gate or fence around the property. It's a simple wheat field. </div></div>

Sounds like its time for a fence, and guess who is going to build it. Asshole caretaker! I agree if he has a contract for upkeep, work his ass off.
 
Re: NEED ADVICE: Private Range Shut Down by Sherif

Fix his wagon.......Hell, I would take his wagon, its probably belongs to your family anyway.... ;), major concern is how he holds title to the 5 acres, IF he holds title all or what beneficial interest does he have as per terms of his "ageement contract" with your family. If it is in a trust, was the agreement with your Grandparents originated prior to the trust, and does the trust currently in existence account for or recognize the agreement. Unlike an easement, an agreement between two parties does not always follow future ownership. A trust is a future owner of the land when your grandparents created the trust. The trust should contain specific, without a doubt, description of the 5 acres "given" and terms of the transaction thereof. Is the agreement a "cloud" on title to the farm in itself,... could be. Can not imagine a "sharp" atty letting this occur within a trust without explaining the long term problems associated with such an agreement. Remember: Murphy's Law. I have been in Real Estate for 40 years and have seen some of the damdest examples of shortsightedness by selller and buyers, let alone family decisions affecting generations. More difficult to extricate yourself from some of these than shedding a problem spouse thru divorce. A friend of mine once told me to pick a Partner more carefully than a spouse. He was right, cheaper to get rid of a spouse than a partner. You just may have a lifetime "partner" on the 5 acres..I hope for your family and you that is not the case. Hope your wife has that mean streak to go after this guy, he deserves it.
 
Re: NEED ADVICE: Private Range Shut Down by Sherif

TAG, very interesting situation. Please update.
 
Re: NEED ADVICE: Private Range Shut Down by Sherif

TAG, very interesting situation. Please update.
 
Re: NEED ADVICE: Private Range Shut Down by Sherif

Quick update: We're (my wife and I) in the process of writing an offer (to buy the land from the trust) for the land that surrounds the care taker's 5 acres. I am going to offer fair market value plus 15%. This way I can do whatever I want to the property. I will only be able to sell the land back to the trust for fair market value should I ever choose to sell the property. Will the grandparents jump? I doubt it. They don't need the money, but it will show I'm dead serious about this. And in the event they do decide to sell. I'm having the largest fence I can afford constructed around his property. Maybe post some interesting signs. The caretaker currently loves nothing more in life than country living; to sit on his back porch and watch over the land. Now he will be looking at a fence on three sides....

But in the mean time we'll see how things pan out making life interesting and dealing with the deputy. We're headed out there again next week.
 
Re: NEED ADVICE: Private Range Shut Down by Sherif

Where to begin...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AREAONE</div><div class="ubbcode-body">as far as the caretaker cattle, are they pastured on his 5 acres ot doe he rent pasture from the family, if so terminate the rent and get his cattle off you land. He should undrstand that he is a "guest" on your family land as long as he lives. He does not own that five acres, he only has a life estate. who pays the real estate tax for the land?</div></div>

That is incorrect. If it's held as a Life Estate he does in fact have interest in the land until the measuring life ends. It's an estate in reversion. He can do as he wishes with the 5 acre property as long as he does not commit waste. As a matter of fact the Caretaker is also responsible for preventing waste if he is a life tenant. That means if he could prove in court that the OP was commiting waste to the property and the life tenant might be held responsible then he has a duty to act.

OP... You need to not waste anytime and contact a Real Estate or Estate Attorney! I have the sneaking suspicion that this is not a "Life Estate" but actually a "Leasehold Estate". Either way the Caretaker has legal rights and possible interest in the property. Real Estate Law & Estate Law are completely different breeds that need addressing by Attorneys within that field. I would highly suggest you don't say anything to the Caretaker until you've consulted counsel and KNOW that you're within the law. I would also seek counsel OUTSIDE of that town since there's an obvious possible conflict of interest with it being so small and everyone knowing everyone.
 
Re: NEED ADVICE: Private Range Shut Down by Sherif

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AREAONE</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Fix his wagon.......Hell, I would take his wagon, its probably belongs to your family anyway.... ;), major concern is how he holds title to the 5 acres, IF he holds title all or what beneficial interest does he have as per terms of his "ageement contract" with your family. If it is in a trust, was the agreement with your Grandparents originated prior to the trust, and does the trust currently in existence account for or recognize the agreement. Unlike an easement, an agreement between two parties does not always follow future ownership. A trust is a future owner of the land when your grandparents created the trust. The trust should contain specific, without a doubt, description of the 5 acres "given" and terms of the transaction thereof. Is the agreement a "cloud" on title to the farm in itself,... could be. Can not imagine a "sharp" atty letting this occur within a trust without explaining the long term problems associated with such an agreement. Remember: Murphy's Law. I have been in Real Estate for 40 years and have seen some of the damdest examples of shortsightedness by selller and buyers, let alone family decisions affecting generations. More difficult to extricate yourself from some of these than shedding a problem spouse thru divorce. A friend of mine once told me to pick a Partner more carefully than a spouse. He was right, cheaper to get rid of a spouse than a partner. You just may have a lifetime "partner" on the 5 acres..I hope for your family and you that is not the case. Hope your wife has that mean streak to go after this guy, he deserves it. </div></div>

Please stop. You're giving very BAD advice. I'm not sure what aspect you were "in Real Estate for 40 years", but just because an Owner executes a Trust, sells the property, or transfers it in any way does NOT mean that any prior executed contracts are nullified or invalid. In fact you could end up having what you suggested backfire on you and discovering issues with the Trust formation. The OP need to contact all the Trustees and sit down with an Attorney to review.

OP... You're taking advice on a matter that could cost you dearly. You need to step away from here and GO GET AN ATTORNEY!
 
Re: NEED ADVICE: Private Range Shut Down by Sherif

Is any member of the family actually farming the ground or is it rented out? Either way I'd say the ground is long overdue for a good maturing! Or very least stockpiling it nearby! Could also double as your berms lol!
 
Re: NEED ADVICE: Private Range Shut Down by Sherif

A little heads up to everyone. I would not suggest ever referring to something as a "Range" whether you use the words "Public" or "Private" before it. Always refer to it as "where you do recreational shooting". It doesn't matter what we shooters believe a range to be in this scenario but what a court of law or code enforcement may choose to think about that term. Although you might be in the right in the end, do you want to spend a metric shit ton of $$$ to prove it? Just sayin...
 
Re: NEED ADVICE: Private Range Shut Down by Sherif

I would invite a local reporter to come shooting with you. Maybe an avid outdoorsman. The quickest way to end this scenario is to have his publicly elected boss tell him to stop, NOW.

I am currently involved in legal action with a Sheriff's Deputy. Doesn't make me an expert or even knowledgeable, just somewhat seasoned.

Definitely record (video is best) and document everything. He probably isn't, don't rely on the truck camera or his microphone, he probably shut them off before he harassed a citizen.

Get $$$ ready and liquid for legal defense. Bail (if necessary), retainer fee, and private investigator. Your research about the nature of the relationship between the Deputy and the caretaker, the caretaker overstepping his lease, or anything else isn't authoritative.

If you don't have a lawyer yet, get one, you're in need now.

The next time he shows up to give you the business and doesn't arrest you, sue the deputy and the sheriffs dept. for harassment (in fact I would consult my lawyer about doing it now). The lawyer will tell you how. This will air out the grievance in a second hand manner and get a judge to point out that no law is broken.

I would also give up thoughts of retribution, those are probably just going to hinder your cause. The reality is whether his character is noble or not your grandparents gave this man some sort of rights to their property and exposed themselves to this risk. Sad but true. This guy will sort himself out eventually.

When a man (especially in uniform) lies you are guilty until you prove yourself innocent, which is very costly. It is a much cheaper and easier route to sue rather than to defend.
 
Re: NEED ADVICE: Private Range Shut Down by Sherif

A few questions, if you don't mind.

Was the deputy (who was in plain clothes) displaying his badge, service weapon?

Was he in a marked (or the obvious unmarked) patrol vehicle, or was he in his personal vehicle?

If the answer to both is "No", then he was probably not dispatched to a complaint. He may have been on his own time (or at the request of the caretaker). Have you attempted to contact the Sheriff's Office to make them aware fo the issue?

Quick story.....I have a good friend that owns alot of property an hour south of me. (I shoot there as often as I can when I'm off). He called me one evening (pretty upset) and told me that he had two State Troopers show up to his property and advise him that they recieved a complaint about the noise (it was a week or 2 before shotgun season started) from a neighbor (the neighbor was concerned that the gunshots would scare away the deer he was hoping to hunt). When he asked why he had to stop, they just advised him that they didn't want to come back to deal with the neighbor. He wasn't happy, but obliged them as it was close to dusk, and was done for the day.

I told him to check his county's laws regarding recreational shooting (which ironically is the same as my county's....sunup to sundown), and to politely inform the Troopers the next time they show up that he has not violated any laws, and they can tell the complainant the reason they will not be responding is due to that very fact. He ended up calling the local S.O. and getting the same answer, as well as being told that if the Troopers push the issue, to call the S.O., and they would send a deputy.

Moral of the story......not all cops are "gun folks", or know all the laws regarding NON CRIMINAL use of guns.
 
Re: NEED ADVICE: Private Range Shut Down by Sherif

Does zoning allow for that many cows on the five acres, sounds cramped to me. Are they properly penned?

What other livestock does he have?

Does the contract only require the duties you mentioned, mowing, etc? Do improvements to the land fall under it?
 
Re: NEED ADVICE: Private Range Shut Down by Sherif

I am the caretaker on a medium sized farm in E. Colo.
What the landowner has to say as far as your responsibilities and rights is paramount.
If the"Person in charge" sticks with you, you are good to go, however, as in this situation, were I to call the cops on someone in the family, I better have DAMN good reason and hope the"Person in charge" thinks that way too.
I have never had to deal with something like this but do have a Cu-- that bought a 10 acre spot a mile and a half from me that pitched a bitch when I was shooting one time.
The sheriff was called and a Dpt. came out there.
I was shooting from the farmhouse area out over our fields that went for over a mile and 90 degrees from her house.
She is from Kal originally and the Front Range Foothills area when she bought this quiet piece of land.
When all was said and done, my ["Person in charge", landowner,] told the Cu--, and the Dept. sheriff,"Mike is the person in charge here. He acts under my orders and authority, if a problem comes up, we take care of it between ourselves, not with the sheriff. And you[pointing a finger to her face] can go pound sand and stick this whole thing in your foreign ass."
I was proud, and still am, of the backing I got and still run that farm to this day.
Long story short, it is your land and you do what you want to do. Stand up and tell them to get Fu----.
Get a damned good lawyer and start suing hell out of both the caretaker and the deputy. Regards, FM
 
Re: NEED ADVICE: Private Range Shut Down by Sherif

A quick update and a couple answers:

The deputy pulled up in a marked car. He had no weapon or badge, but he was the same guy that kicked us off last time we were there. This is the second time this has happened. The first time the sun was going down and we were packing up when he arrived so we attributed it to timing.

Not that it matters, but the caretaker was drunk when I confronted him. Literally sitting in his shed drinking by himself. Classy guy,

We are putting together a game plan. I will not be going out there again until all of my duck are in a row. it may take a while. I will have all filings ready, support data in hand, and proof needed before my meeting with the county attorney.

Thank you to all the hide members that PM'd me info. I had a member give me his phone number and we talked for a while. He gave me some great info on how the marines set-up ranges and the safety guide to do such. You know who you are. Thank you.

It turns out that my wife went to Law School with the county attorney. They're even facebook friends..... strange. I'll be well prepared for my meeting with him. I will have no contact wil the deputy or caretaker from her out. I will have written documents from the land owners and surrounding land owners.

Still working on the contract between my grandparents and the caretaker. Word form my father is that it doesn't look good. He has not seen it, but he believes that my grandfather may have gifted the land until death. No lease in fee. The old man is a hand shake kind of guy and that may be our major downfall.... I may have a feind for life in this one.... Hopefully I'll have something more to work with tomorrow.

Thanks again to everyone.
 
Re: NEED ADVICE: Private Range Shut Down by Sherif

Patches,

It may be that the deputy was acting in an off duty capacity, and his actions are/ were not sanctioned by the S.O. I would still contact the S.O. and make them aware.
 
Re: NEED ADVICE: Private Range Shut Down by Sherif

Remember, you are the landowner, Person in charge, not the caretaker.
Make his life painful to the point he gets out.
Regards, FM
 
Re: NEED ADVICE: Private Range Shut Down by Sherif

I would have your family see if they can fix the problem. If not then I would have him make a berm. Then make him dig a big hole then move it. Then bury it. As it stands he is not the owner. Just make his life suck.

Or you can just do what I would do. I would just sue him until he would just move on.
 
Re: NEED ADVICE: Private Range Shut Down by Sherif

Put a trailer park all the way around his 5 acres with month to month lot lease so you can get rid of them after he leaves .Rent it to the most shady people you can find .Make his life suck hog nuts .Dig a trench all the way around his house ,and fill it with checken litter . Give permission to the highschool kids to have partys ,and bondfires right next to him .Its yalls land make him remember that.
 
Re: NEED ADVICE: Private Range Shut Down by Sherif

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Foul Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Remember, you are the landowner, Person in charge, not the caretaker.
Make his life painful to the point he gets out.
Regards, FM </div></div>

Not if it's a Life Estate Mike. If it's a contract you're 100% spot on, but if there's a Life Estate or even a Leasehold Estate then the Caretaker is technically also an Owner with certain rights. It all rides down to this Contract, Trust, and any other recorded documents on Title.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Kinetic Moose
Death on the Range
Replies
43
Views
2K
powdahound76
powdahound76
higginsworksforme
Introducing kids to shooting
Replies
10
Views
272
fpgt72
fpgt72
Big Bo
Guy tells a hunting story
Replies
127
Views
4K
Longshot231
Longshot231
vinniedelpino
Putting down the family dog...
Replies
57
Views
1K
Pharmseller
Pharmseller
PatMiles
Lost Joe Biden Gives Speech to Wounded Warriors with His Back to Them…Until Jill Finally Turns Him Around (VIDEO)
Replies
5
Views
366
Racer88
Racer88
Top Bottom
Back