223 brass in 5.56 chamber ?

[WK&U]

I shot 223 ammunition in a rifle chambered in a 5.56 . Will doing this fire form the brass to 5.56,or will it stay the way it was orginaly made 223. The reason for asking is I want to be sure that this brass can still be used safely in a rifle chambered 223, or only 5.56 from then on.

 

[insight3b]

Re: 223 brass in 5.56 chamber ?

The chamber dimesions between the two are virtually identical. The main difference is the leade or throat. The pressure difference between the two occurs when the projectile enters the rifling. Your cases will be fine whether you shot them in .223 or 5.56. Hope this helps

 

[Ultraman550]

Re: 223 brass in 5.56 chamber ?

I thought that the casing in the 5.56 is just thicker than a .223 so the only difference is less powder in the 5.56. But also it's not wise to shoot 5.56 ammo from a .223 chambered barrel.

 

[armorpl8chikn]

Re: 223 brass in 5.56 chamber ?

If 5.56 brass is thicker it is by chance, not by design. There is no difference in a piece of brass between the two. As Insight has already said, the difference is in the way the chamber is cut specifically leade angle and throat. 223 and 5.56 BRASS is dimensionally identical.
The real question here is one you haven't asked. "Should I shoot the same brass in 2 different rifles?"
The answer to that question is absolutely not unless you want problems. If you shoot brass in one chamber, then size it to minimal dimensions and fire in another rifle exclusively. You will be fine. If you try to hop brass back and forth from one rifle to the next, depending on luck of the draw, you are at least gonna wear out your brass faster.
To put it more succinctly; I have two 223 guns cut with the same reamer to the same specs, headspaced within .001" of each other. I can interchange ammo from one to the other, but will only do that if I am in a pinch, I keep their brass seperate even though teh chambers are practical identical twins.

 

[leadbullet]

Re: 223 brass in 5.56 chamber ?

some 5,56 brass is thicker than some commercial. The dif is on the inside not outside dims.
use any brass you want to load.
cheers.

 

[WK&U]

Re: 223 brass in 5.56 chamber ?

Yes thats my question . If shoot 223 ammuntion in a rifle chambered in a 5.56; then reload that same brass. Is it safe to shoot that reloaded brass in a rifle chambered in 223 ?

 

[FLIGHT762]

Re: 223 brass in 5.56 chamber ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: WK&U</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes thats my question . If shoot 223 ammuntion in a rifle chambered in a 5.56; then reload that same brass. Is it safe to shoot that reloaded brass in a rifle chambered in 223 ? </div></div>

Yes, it is safe. When you resize the brass in a .223 Remington F/L die (there are no 5.56x45 NATO dies) that brass can be fired in a 223 or a 5.56 NATO chamber. The brass case dimensions are the same between the two.

 

[Broken_Reticle]

Re: 223 brass in 5.56 chamber ?

The difference between the two is not the brass but pressure limits fit the actual rifle chamber. As long as you load the cartridge @ .223 specs you will be fine. Don't use Nato specs to load .223 roundsI don't have a book in of me give you actual pressure limits (62000 Nato V. 55000 .223 Rem)
I am trying to find another source to confirm that nato rounds might be loaded longer and therefore in a .223 might be touching the lands and cause a pressure spike.
The real answer is to call who made your rifle barrel and ask them the specs of your rifle and go by their recommendations.

Cheers,
B_R

 

[armorpl8chikn]

Re: 223 brass in 5.56 chamber ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: WK&U</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes thats my question . If shoot 223 ammuntion in a rifle chambered in a 5.56; then reload that same brass. Is it safe to shoot that reloaded brass in a rifle chambered in 223 ? </div></div>

There are many technicalities in the art of handloading. This is one of those areas that may mean nothing or may be dangerous according to your definition of your own questions.
I will try and explain this again. It would be sloppy work, to load some 223 ammo in a Rem 700 chambered for 223, and then load that brass in ANOTHER Rem 700 chambered for 223, if you did that more than once. What Iam saying is this.Sure shoot some 223 in your AR15 chambered for 5.56, 223Rem, 223 Wylde doesn't matter. After shooting in your AR sure you can shoot it in another gun probably if you resize to minimum specs. But don't just willy nilly throw your brass in a can marked 223 and shoot it in all your 223's, that will cause trouble. Check the specs before you size to make sure. No two chambers are often alike. Sometimes they are close, that is where I was referring to luck of the draw. If you have custom guns you can have the headspaces set exact and chambers identical when cut withh the same reamer.

I have several 223 and 5.56 guns. I do notload all my ammo from one pile of brass and some of my chambers are as I said ...twins.
Don't continue to swap the brass back and forth from rifle to rifle.

 

[Ultraman550]

Re: 223 brass in 5.56 chamber ?

Wow, this is very good info as I am about to reload 5.56 brass and "was" going to use it for two different AR rifles. Guess not.

 

[FLIGHT762]

Re: 223 brass in 5.56 chamber ?

I'll give you more to ponder. I reload for a variety of .223 bolt and and 5.56 chambered AR-15 type rifles. For my .223 Remington bolt guns, I do not switch brass between them and my AR-15's. The bolt guns have a little tighter headspace than 5.56 NATO chambers in the AR's and the bolt gun brass have their shoulders bumped in resizing only about .002". The AR's fired cases have their shoulders expanded further forward due to the 5.56 NATO chamber and they get their cases shoulders bumped .004"-.005".

Cases will last longer when they are worked less (not overly resized) than cases that get excessively resized. That's why it's better not to mix the brass between a .223 chamber and a 5.56 NATO chamber. I use my Remington and Winchester commercial cases fro my bolt guns and other makes of cases for the AR's. It makes it easier to not to mix the brass up.

Now, I have found no issues in using the same brass between two 5.56 NATO chambered AR's. I've measured the shoulder bump (headspace) of fired cases between them and they are close enough to one another when using practice ammo. For long range ammo (69-75 gr.) they get separate brass.

It can get confusing knowing weather an AR-15 has a 223 chamber or a 5.56 NATO chamber. The older Colt SP-1 AR-15's with the 1-12" twist barrels would be roll marked as 223 caliber, but in fact, they had a military chamber not a .223 Remington SAAMI chamber. When the US Military adopted the 5.56 NATO using the M-855/ M-856 ammo with the 1/7 twist barrels, the barrels were then marked "5.56 NATO 1/7 " which makes it easier to identify what chamber the rifle has.

If you do have a .223 Remington chambered AR-15 and a 5.56 NATO chambered AR-15, it's a good practice to keep the brass shot in each rifle segregated.

In your original question you asked if you can shoot 223 (marked) brass in a 5.56 chamber. The answer is still yes, you can use commercial brass headstamped "223 Remington" in a 5.56 NATO rifle, but it's a good practice not to switch the brass fired in the rifles if they are actually chambered differently.

Does this make sense?

 

[Ultraman550]

Re: 223 brass in 5.56 chamber ?

Ok, heres a question for you fellers. I have another upper/bcg etc. that I am building and I am moving the barrel from the first gun to the new one. The older upper will get a new barrel. Does this make a difference in regards to my already once fired brass? So what I am asking is can I reload my once fired brass and use it in the original upper that it was originally fired from even though the barrel is different? Does twist rates play a role in any of this?

Note: Btw, this site is ridiculously amazing. There is so much needed info on this board that I would never have known even through my own trial and error. Thanks to all of you in this thread and all the other threads for teaching me on a daily basis.

 

[TheRedHorseman]

Re: 223 brass in 5.56 chamber ?

As long as you do a full length resizing, it will not matter which chamber the brass was last fired in. Well, assuming they were both .223/5.56mm chambers.

Twist rate has absolutely nothing to do with the chamber.

 

[armorpl8chikn]

Re: 223 brass in 5.56 chamber ?

As I said before. Full length resize to smallest spec possible then ever after stay in that rifle. No worries. Annealing before resizing wouldn't hurt either.

 

[judgedelta]

Re: 223 brass in 5.56 chamber ?

All of that info above about not using brass in bolt guns and ARs interchangeably appears to be confusing to me and I have been loading for several years. Red horse's post is to my thinking correct. I always full length size and shoot the stuff in either .223 or 5.56... ( I don't load hot).

 

[Kinsman]

Re: 223 brass in 5.56 chamber ?

http://www.humanevents.com/2011/02/15/223-remington-vs-556-nato-what-you-dont-know-could-hurt-you/

 

[FLIGHT762]

Re: 223 brass in 5.56 chamber ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: judgedelta</div><div class="ubbcode-body">All of that info above about not using brass in bolt guns and ARs interchangeably appears to be confusing to me and I have been loading for several years. Red horse's post is to my thinking correct. I always full length size and shoot the stuff in either .223 or 5.56... ( I don't load hot). </div></div>

This is what I've learned over 40 years of hand loading for the AR-15. To avoid risking an out of battery / Slam fire KABOOM, I F/L resize to near the minimum SAAMI spec for the 223 Remington (new 5.56 NATO ammunition shoulders are also set to near the 223 Rem. SAAMI minimum spec length. I've measured a good amount of various US and foreign 5.56 NATO ammo) to get reliable feeding and chambering. I also check to see that primers are seated below flush.

When using a Hornady or Sinclair headspace/bump gauge to measure the forward movement of the shoulder of fired cases in the AR-15 5.56 chamber in my various AR-15 rifles, the shoulder will move .005-.008" forward. Over time, this will wear the brass out quicker than bumping the shoulder back only .001"-.002" that we do on our bolt rifles.

In my Remingtom .223 700 V, It has a snug chamber. I'm able to F/L resize and bump the shoulders back .001"-.002". The brass will last longer.

Because most AR-15' don't have a gas cutoff feature (like the M-14/M1-A's do) so you can fire single shot with the gas turned off to get a more accurate measuring of how much the shoulder is being pushed forward in the chamber, I keep my F/L reloads near the minimum spec so I can shoot the ammo in any of my AR's.

If you want to take the time to take the fired cases from an individual AR-15 rifle and set your F/L sizing die to bump the shoulder minimally (.002"-.003") for that rifle, you can do so. This is a good reason to keep those cases segregated from other cases fired in different 223 or 5.56 rifles.

Does this help explain it?

 

[armorpl8chikn]

Re: 223 brass in 5.56 chamber ?

Lemme go run a different rabbit than Flight ran, so maybe you will get the picture.
If I size my brass to operate properly in all the 223/556 weapons I own. I will be squeezing that brass way back(as Flight has said). Not only is my brass not going to last long, but I run the real risk of causing a case head seperation in at least one of my rifles eventually.
What Redhorse said is not entirely correct and not entirely wrong. Sorry you think what he said is gospel.
FL sizing does not guarantee that ANY brass will fit ANY chamber, sorry but it is false. FL sizing with a small base die almost guarantees brass fired from ANY chamber will work. There is however something called tolerance stacking(I think that is the correct term). Things that are mass produced to within certain specifications have a max and a minimum. If you get a chamber with a max dimension, that's brass meets a die with a bit on the max size side dimension. Then that sized piece of brass meets a chamber with min specs, you will have problems. If this was never an issue there would be no need or market for SB dies.
I have a few match chambers they are minimum spec. They are not BR grade specs mind you, just plain, no turn, match chambers set up with minimum headspace. For lack of a better way to explain it they are a bit on the tight side but factory brass is supposed to chamber right up. Now even with a SB die I have a hard time using brass from a random pile on the range. For that matter if it goes through one of my AR's it is now pretty much toast for using in either of my bolt guns. I am not saying none of it will chamber. I am saying most of it will be tighter than hell.
JUst because you can do it with your dies and your guns, does not mean anyone else can do it without trouble. It is JUST THAT SIMPLE.