Re: Tac Ops Delta 51
you guys are fucking killing me
you guys are fucking killing me
- Thread starter brinkhdlow
- Start date
Re: Tac Ops Delta 51
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Juniors</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Keith,
+1 on the great pictures, such depth and clarity, nice!
Your knowledge of information regarding Mike and Tac Ops is pretty good too. Thanks. </div></div>
You're too kind, Juniors. I've known Mike a very long time and have the priviledge and honor of being able to speak with Mike in-person and play with Tac Ops rifles and suppressors at the shop and the range. And oh yeah - I shoot photos of them sometimes too!
Keith
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Juniors</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Keith,
+1 on the great pictures, such depth and clarity, nice!
Your knowledge of information regarding Mike and Tac Ops is pretty good too. Thanks. </div></div>
You're too kind, Juniors. I've known Mike a very long time and have the priviledge and honor of being able to speak with Mike in-person and play with Tac Ops rifles and suppressors at the shop and the range. And oh yeah - I shoot photos of them sometimes too!
Keith
Re: Tac Ops Delta 51
Hey Kieth,
Who is that BIG JOE guy?
Friend or Foe?
Hey Kieth,
Who is that BIG JOE guy?
Friend or Foe?
Re: Tac Ops Delta 51
whoa mr. hostile, just envious of the stick, very nice rifles guys i'm working with mike trying to figure out which one i want.
whoa mr. hostile, just envious of the stick, very nice rifles guys i'm working with mike trying to figure out which one i want.
Re: Tac Ops Delta 51
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: brinkhdlow</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey Kieth,
Who is that BIG JOE guy?
Friend or Foe?</div></div>
Who are YOU?
Joe is very interested in the rifle and is MORE THAN qualified to talk about it. There's no need to either turn this into a pissing contest or make it into something it's not.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: brinkhdlow</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey Kieth,
Who is that BIG JOE guy?
Friend or Foe?</div></div>
Who are YOU?
Joe is very interested in the rifle and is MORE THAN qualified to talk about it. There's no need to either turn this into a pissing contest or make it into something it's not.
Re: Tac Ops Delta 51
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: brinkhdlow</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey Kieth,
Who is that BIG JOE guy?
Friend or Foe? </div></div>
I've never met <span style="font-style: italic">BigJoe</span> but by his occupation I classify him as one of the "good guys", just as I consider you to be a "good guy" by your given occupation and position. What you and BigJoe reveal about yourselves to each other and the rest of the World is up to you, but for security and privacy reasons I'm bound by privilege and I'm not at liberty to discuss your occupations, qualifications or anything else about you two.
Keith
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: brinkhdlow</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey Kieth,
Who is that BIG JOE guy?
Friend or Foe? </div></div>
I've never met <span style="font-style: italic">BigJoe</span> but by his occupation I classify him as one of the "good guys", just as I consider you to be a "good guy" by your given occupation and position. What you and BigJoe reveal about yourselves to each other and the rest of the World is up to you, but for security and privacy reasons I'm bound by privilege and I'm not at liberty to discuss your occupations, qualifications or anything else about you two.
Keith
Re: Tac Ops Delta 51
Hey Mike,
I just spoke with Mike R on the phone and he told me I may have started something. That was not my intention. When I read BigJoe's comment, I wasn't quite sure what he meant by it. From the little bit I have dealt with Mike R I have found he is a HELL OF A GUY! I respect the SHIT out of Mike R so when I saw that someone may have been trying to start something; I wanted to stop it before it got out of hand. I was just trying to find out if anyone knew BigJoe and what he meant by his comment, I was not trying to start anything. Mike R. informed me that BigJoe is a good dude and I apologize for the mix up and personal apologize to BigJoe. The last thing I want to do is start anything or cause “Bad Blood” and that was not my intention.
Murel
Hey Mike,
I just spoke with Mike R on the phone and he told me I may have started something. That was not my intention. When I read BigJoe's comment, I wasn't quite sure what he meant by it. From the little bit I have dealt with Mike R I have found he is a HELL OF A GUY! I respect the SHIT out of Mike R so when I saw that someone may have been trying to start something; I wanted to stop it before it got out of hand. I was just trying to find out if anyone knew BigJoe and what he meant by his comment, I was not trying to start anything. Mike R. informed me that BigJoe is a good dude and I apologize for the mix up and personal apologize to BigJoe. The last thing I want to do is start anything or cause “Bad Blood” and that was not my intention.
Murel
Re: Tac Ops Delta 51
No worries my friend.
We are all on the same page now and moving forward. I am 100% confident Joe made his comment in the positive way, as I believe you are now too.
Moving forward, if something like this comes up again where it appears someone is being negative, please PM me personally and I will be on it like white on rice to make sure no shit gets stirred.
We're all GTG now. Welcome to the Hide and let's press on.
No worries my friend.
We are all on the same page now and moving forward. I am 100% confident Joe made his comment in the positive way, as I believe you are now too.
Moving forward, if something like this comes up again where it appears someone is being negative, please PM me personally and I will be on it like white on rice to make sure no shit gets stirred.
We're all GTG now. Welcome to the Hide and let's press on.
Re: Tac Ops Delta 51
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigJoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">whoa mr. hostile, just envious of the stick, very nice rifles guys i'm working with mike trying to figure out which one i want. </div></div>
LOL,
Sorry BigJoe
I think we may have got our wires crossed. I spoke with Mike R and he had good things to say about ya. Sorry for the mix up bro. Good luck with choosing the rifle, keep us in touch with what you decide.
"mr. hostile" out.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigJoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">whoa mr. hostile, just envious of the stick, very nice rifles guys i'm working with mike trying to figure out which one i want. </div></div>
LOL,
Sorry BigJoe
I think we may have got our wires crossed. I spoke with Mike R and he had good things to say about ya. Sorry for the mix up bro. Good luck with choosing the rifle, keep us in touch with what you decide.
"mr. hostile" out.
Re: Tac Ops Delta 51
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No worries my friend.
We are all on the same page now and moving forward. I am 100% confident Joe made his comment in the positive way, as I believe you are now too.
Moving forward, if something like this comes up again where it appears someone is being negative, please PM me personally and I will be on it like white on rice to make sure no shit gets stirred.
We're all GTG now. Welcome to the Hide and let's press on. </div></div>
Will do Chief!
Thanks,
Murel
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No worries my friend.
We are all on the same page now and moving forward. I am 100% confident Joe made his comment in the positive way, as I believe you are now too.
Moving forward, if something like this comes up again where it appears someone is being negative, please PM me personally and I will be on it like white on rice to make sure no shit gets stirred.
We're all GTG now. Welcome to the Hide and let's press on. </div></div>
Will do Chief!
Thanks,
Murel
Re: Tac Ops Delta 51
no harsh feelings, we're good bro.
no harsh feelings, we're good bro.
Re: Tac Ops Delta 51
what is the avrage price of such a rifle? and is it worth it? i have read the claims of .25 moa but have had no dealings with it, and it seems that some peoples feathers get ruffled over company. i am trying to bring any one down just curious about the rifles
what is the avrage price of such a rifle? and is it worth it? i have read the claims of .25 moa but have had no dealings with it, and it seems that some peoples feathers get ruffled over company. i am trying to bring any one down just curious about the rifles
Re: Tac Ops Delta 51
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: buggley</div><div class="ubbcode-body">what is the avrage price of such a rifle? and is it worth it? i have read the claims of .25 moa but have had no dealings with it, and it seems that some peoples feathers get ruffled over company. i am trying to bring any one down just curious about the rifles </div></div>
Worth is subjective, and depends also on what a rifle and its performance means to you to begin with. One thing I can say however, is you get EXACTLY what you pay for in a TacOps. A no compromise, no margin for error, lowest tolerance rig that has the industry defining best practice in fit, finish and performance.
The .25MOA or less is not a claim, it's not an opinion. It's a guarantee on factory FGMM 168gr for the .308 that is complemented with a <span style="font-weight: bold">lifetime</span> warranty on the rig excluding wear on the barrel. It's been tested and proven in a number of live shoots by highly decorated competitive and professional shooters the rigs routinely perform better than .25MOA.
Feathers got ruffled because of the manner and attitude with which the questions were asked. If you have questions, put them to the guy best positioned to answer them - Mike Rescigno - he will give you straight answers and more details than you'll know what to do with!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: buggley</div><div class="ubbcode-body">what is the avrage price of such a rifle? and is it worth it? i have read the claims of .25 moa but have had no dealings with it, and it seems that some peoples feathers get ruffled over company. i am trying to bring any one down just curious about the rifles </div></div>
Worth is subjective, and depends also on what a rifle and its performance means to you to begin with. One thing I can say however, is you get EXACTLY what you pay for in a TacOps. A no compromise, no margin for error, lowest tolerance rig that has the industry defining best practice in fit, finish and performance.
The .25MOA or less is not a claim, it's not an opinion. It's a guarantee on factory FGMM 168gr for the .308 that is complemented with a <span style="font-weight: bold">lifetime</span> warranty on the rig excluding wear on the barrel. It's been tested and proven in a number of live shoots by highly decorated competitive and professional shooters the rigs routinely perform better than .25MOA.
Feathers got ruffled because of the manner and attitude with which the questions were asked. If you have questions, put them to the guy best positioned to answer them - Mike Rescigno - he will give you straight answers and more details than you'll know what to do with!
Re: Tac Ops Delta 51
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: buggley</div><div class="ubbcode-body">what is the avrage price of such a rifle? and is it worth it? i have read the claims of .25 moa but have had no dealings with it, and it seems that some peoples feathers get ruffled over company. i am trying to bring any one down just curious about the rifles </div></div>
Mike R. can answer any price questions you have......Is it worth it ---- YES!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: buggley</div><div class="ubbcode-body">what is the avrage price of such a rifle? and is it worth it? i have read the claims of .25 moa but have had no dealings with it, and it seems that some peoples feathers get ruffled over company. i am trying to bring any one down just curious about the rifles </div></div>
Mike R. can answer any price questions you have......Is it worth it ---- YES!
Re: Tac Ops Delta 51
I got this one from a friend of a friend that needed some quick cash. I can only say you won't be disappointed. It easily out-shoots me. Tango-51 18" a la LASD SEB style. Might need to upgrade optics from Leupold Mark 4 4.5x14 to Nightforce or S&B though.
I got this one from a friend of a friend that needed some quick cash. I can only say you won't be disappointed. It easily out-shoots me. Tango-51 18" a la LASD SEB style. Might need to upgrade optics from Leupold Mark 4 4.5x14 to Nightforce or S&B though.
Re: Tac Ops Delta 51
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: stretch1934</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I got this one from a friend of a friend that needed some quick cash. I can only say you won't be disappointed. It easily out-shoots me. Tango-51 18" a la LASD SEB style. Might need to upgrade optics from Leupold Mark 4 4.5x14 to Nightforce or S&B though.
</div></div>
Very nice of you to help your friend out with his cash-flow problem and acquire his Tango 51. The model of Mark 4 mounted on your Tango 51 works well for the LASD SEB, but of course there are much better (and unfortunately much more expensive) scopes available. The Mark 4 is very capable, but a Tac Ops rifle really deserves a higher-end optic. A PMII if you can manage it, but a Nightforce F1 would be a nice upgrade over the Leupold too.
I shoot at small targets at and long distance so I like magnification and fine reticles. My favorite PMII is the difficult-to-find (and expensive) 5-25X Gen 2 XR. The very fine reticle and great clarity allow exacting POA, and coupled with the X-Ray enhance my ability to shoot tight groups and small targets (1/2 MOA or smaller) at long distance. However, the big 5-25X goes against the grain on the lightweight, fast handling Tango so depending upon the type of shooting you do, the target sizes, and the distances you typically shoot the 3-12X and 3-20X (when it gets here) might be better suited to the Tango.
I like the Gen 2 Mildot and the Gen 2 XL in the lower-power PMIIs' such as the 3-12X and 4-16X because fine reticles like the P4F and Gen 2 XR are too fine at lower power for me. The only problem with the Gen 2 XL is that - like the Gen 2 XR, it is no longer available in new S & Bs' which makes PMIIs' equipped with it difficult-to-find and expensive.
If you plan to hunt with the Tango a PMII with the Gen 2, Gen 2 XL, P4, or the new MSR would be great, but for target shooting and/or small targets they're a little thick for true precision aiming and shot placement, and don't allow the accuracy potential of the Tango to be fully realized. The new 3-20X is great with a P4F - fine enough for casual target shooting but heavy enough at lower power so you don't lose the reticle too easily.
Keith
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: stretch1934</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I got this one from a friend of a friend that needed some quick cash. I can only say you won't be disappointed. It easily out-shoots me. Tango-51 18" a la LASD SEB style. Might need to upgrade optics from Leupold Mark 4 4.5x14 to Nightforce or S&B though.
</div></div>
Very nice of you to help your friend out with his cash-flow problem and acquire his Tango 51. The model of Mark 4 mounted on your Tango 51 works well for the LASD SEB, but of course there are much better (and unfortunately much more expensive) scopes available. The Mark 4 is very capable, but a Tac Ops rifle really deserves a higher-end optic. A PMII if you can manage it, but a Nightforce F1 would be a nice upgrade over the Leupold too.
I shoot at small targets at and long distance so I like magnification and fine reticles. My favorite PMII is the difficult-to-find (and expensive) 5-25X Gen 2 XR. The very fine reticle and great clarity allow exacting POA, and coupled with the X-Ray enhance my ability to shoot tight groups and small targets (1/2 MOA or smaller) at long distance. However, the big 5-25X goes against the grain on the lightweight, fast handling Tango so depending upon the type of shooting you do, the target sizes, and the distances you typically shoot the 3-12X and 3-20X (when it gets here) might be better suited to the Tango.
I like the Gen 2 Mildot and the Gen 2 XL in the lower-power PMIIs' such as the 3-12X and 4-16X because fine reticles like the P4F and Gen 2 XR are too fine at lower power for me. The only problem with the Gen 2 XL is that - like the Gen 2 XR, it is no longer available in new S & Bs' which makes PMIIs' equipped with it difficult-to-find and expensive.
If you plan to hunt with the Tango a PMII with the Gen 2, Gen 2 XL, P4, or the new MSR would be great, but for target shooting and/or small targets they're a little thick for true precision aiming and shot placement, and don't allow the accuracy potential of the Tango to be fully realized. The new 3-20X is great with a P4F - fine enough for casual target shooting but heavy enough at lower power so you don't lose the reticle too easily.
Keith
Re: Tac Ops Delta 51
Thanks for the optics advice. Definitely don't want to get a monster scope to throw off the look of the rifle. I have an S&B PMII fixed 10x, but am thinking that 3-20x might be the way to go if it's not too large.
By the way, the previous owner of this particular rifle was a she, not a he.
Thanks for the optics advice. Definitely don't want to get a monster scope to throw off the look of the rifle. I have an S&B PMII fixed 10x, but am thinking that 3-20x might be the way to go if it's not too large.
By the way, the previous owner of this particular rifle was a she, not a he.
Re: Tac Ops Delta 51
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: stretch1934</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks for the optics advice. Definitely don't want to get a monster scope to throw off the look of the rifle. I have an S&B PMII fixed 10x, but am thinking that 3-20x might be the way to go if it's not too large.</div></div>
The 3-20X isn't overly large - its' 33mm/1.29921" longer than the LP version 3-12X50s' and is actually 9mm/0.35433" shorter than the 4-16X42 LP, and 8mm/0.31496" shorter than the 4-16X50 LPs'"
<span style="font-weight: bold">3-20X50mm LT/DT/LP - 385mm
3-12X50mm DT/LP - 352mm
4-16X42mm DT/LP - 394mm
4-16X50mm DT/LP - 393mm</span>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: stretch1934</div><div class="ubbcode-body">By the way, the previous owner of this particular rifle was a she, not a he.
</div></div>
<span style="font-style: italic">Her</span>, not his loss then.
Keith
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: stretch1934</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks for the optics advice. Definitely don't want to get a monster scope to throw off the look of the rifle. I have an S&B PMII fixed 10x, but am thinking that 3-20x might be the way to go if it's not too large.</div></div>
The 3-20X isn't overly large - its' 33mm/1.29921" longer than the LP version 3-12X50s' and is actually 9mm/0.35433" shorter than the 4-16X42 LP, and 8mm/0.31496" shorter than the 4-16X50 LPs'"
<span style="font-weight: bold">3-20X50mm LT/DT/LP - 385mm
3-12X50mm DT/LP - 352mm
4-16X42mm DT/LP - 394mm
4-16X50mm DT/LP - 393mm</span>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: stretch1934</div><div class="ubbcode-body">By the way, the previous owner of this particular rifle was a she, not a he.
</div></div>
<span style="font-style: italic">Her</span>, not his loss then.
Keith
Re: Tac Ops Delta 51
I have a Tango 51 with the tac 30 can, is it worth it? Every time the safe opens, it is like unwraping the best gift I ever received. There has never been anything but amazement and admiration with all who see the package. And am close to receiveing a Green Hornet in 17 hmr. For myself it is one of the most rewarding investments ever made and encourage anyone that is on the fence to call Mike and endure the wait. Only thing worse is when it arrives and you let you your wife shoot it and she out shoots you with it!
1
I have a Tango 51 with the tac 30 can, is it worth it? Every time the safe opens, it is like unwraping the best gift I ever received. There has never been anything but amazement and admiration with all who see the package. And am close to receiveing a Green Hornet in 17 hmr. For myself it is one of the most rewarding investments ever made and encourage anyone that is on the fence to call Mike and endure the wait. Only thing worse is when it arrives and you let you your wife shoot it and she out shoots you with it!
1
Re: Tac Ops Delta 51
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigJoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">you guys are fucking killing me </div></div>
+1,000,000! They are nice rifles. My old boss ordered one in 308, although I never got to shoot it, yet, I handled it and looked through the SB on top. Such a sweet feeling, well balanced machine that will make a guy just drool all over himself! I thought he said it was an Area 51, but I could be wrong. Wish I could get in this game, but alas it's not possible at the moment. Goodluck in your wait there OP!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigJoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">you guys are fucking killing me </div></div>
+1,000,000! They are nice rifles. My old boss ordered one in 308, although I never got to shoot it, yet, I handled it and looked through the SB on top. Such a sweet feeling, well balanced machine that will make a guy just drool all over himself! I thought he said it was an Area 51, but I could be wrong. Wish I could get in this game, but alas it's not possible at the moment. Goodluck in your wait there OP!
Re: Tac Ops Delta 51
Hey Keith,
While I am waiting for Mike to build the super special Delta 51 (Holly $h!t, the suspense is killing me)
, I have been using a Remington 40-X. I will start by saying great gun, but one issue I have noticed with it is my cold bore is unpredictable. I can’t figure it out. I have been monitoring it for right at 7 to 8 months. I when I got the gun I had no idea how many round went through it, but since I have had it, I have sent right at 587 rounds through the tube. When the barrel warms up it will shoot sub ½ M.O.A. groups, but getting there is a guessing game. My C.B.S. tend to land 1 to 1.5 M.O.A. at about 7’oclock from my P.O.A. about 80 percent of the time. The other 20 percent is all over at about 1 to 1.5 M.O.A. from my P.O.A. Temperature is not the factor because I have tried to duplicate each shoot as close as possible in reference to Wind, Sunlight, Elevation, Temperature and so on. Any thoughts why it would be so unpredictable?
Also, I was reading another thread where you were talking about your X-Ray and how consistent your P.O.I. is between your Cold Dirty Bore and your Warm Dirty Bore. Do you notice any change what so ever in the P.O.I. from Cold Dirty Bore to Warm Dirty Bore and what P.O.A. P.O.I. change (if any) have you noticed in going from one extreme environment to another, i.e. Wyoming’s 100 degree plus temps to subzero temps
Thanks
Hey Keith,
While I am waiting for Mike to build the super special Delta 51 (Holly $h!t, the suspense is killing me)
Also, I was reading another thread where you were talking about your X-Ray and how consistent your P.O.I. is between your Cold Dirty Bore and your Warm Dirty Bore. Do you notice any change what so ever in the P.O.I. from Cold Dirty Bore to Warm Dirty Bore and what P.O.A. P.O.I. change (if any) have you noticed in going from one extreme environment to another, i.e. Wyoming’s 100 degree plus temps to subzero temps
Thanks
Re: Tac Ops Delta 51
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: brinkhdlow</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey Keith,
While I am waiting for Mike to build the super special Delta 51 (Holly $h!t, the suspense is killing me) , I have been using a Remington 40-X. I will start by saying great gun, but one issue I have noticed with it is my cold bore is unpredictable. I can’t figure it out. I have been monitoring it for right at 7 to 8 months. I when I got the gun I had no idea how many round went through it, but since I have had it, I have sent right at 587 rounds through the tube. When the barrel warms up it will shoot sub ½ M.O.A. groups, but getting there is a guessing game. My C.B.S. tend to land 1 to 1.5 M.O.A. at about 7’oclock from my P.O.A. about 80 percent of the time. The other 20 percent is all over at about 1 to 1.5 M.O.A. from my P.O.A. Temperature is not the factor because I have tried to duplicate each shoot as close as possible in reference to Wind, Sunlight, Elevation, Temperature and so on. Any thoughts why it would be so unpredictable?</div></div>
There are a lot of variables that can account for the shifting POI, including a "cold shooter". Do you go straight for the .308 when you get to the range? If so, try warming-up with a few dry-fire follow-throughs before you go hot. Get behind the rifle, focus the scope on your target, and concentrate on the target as you squeeze the trigger slowly, holding the crosshair on the exact aiming point (theorietically the POI) throughout the firing cycle. Your crosshair should remain centered on the target until after the ring from the firing pin fades.
Now, consider is that the 40X is a factory gun. As such, you shouldn't your 40X expect to shoot to the same POI between CB and WB - most rifles won't. The 40X is a nice rifle but its' still a production rifle with a factory barrel which aren't stress-relieved. Another thing is that Remington only torques the barrels to around 40 ft/lbs., and as the receiver and barrel heat-up, the change in connection dimensions, combined with the low torque on the barrel causes a POI shift. Some gunsmith torque barrels to 60 ft/lbs while some might go to 80 ft/lbs or even 100+ ft/lbs. Tac Ops uses a much higher torque - 220-280 ft/lbs depending upon the rifle.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: brinkhdlow</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Also, I was reading another thread where you were talking about your X-Ray and how consistent your P.O.I. is between your Cold Dirty Bore and your Warm Dirty Bore. Do you notice any change what so ever in the P.O.I. from Cold Dirty Bore to Warm Dirty Bore and what P.O.A. P.O.I. change (if any) have you noticed in going from one extreme environment to another, i.e. Wyoming’s 100 degree plus temps to subzero temps
Thanks
</div></div>
My rifle doesn't have a shift of POI between CDB and WDB. Since I shoot at ASR most often I always zero my X-Ray 51 there. Once I have a solid 100 yard zero for the lot of ammo or load I'm shooting I am GTG at ASR. I always check my (100 yard) zero before I start shooting, and as long as I dry-fired a few times before I chamber my first round of the day my CDB shot is always dead on the money. I also know that if I chronograph that lot or load (which I always do) and make a drop chart that I will be dead-on at <span style="font-style: italic">whatever</span> distances I shoot at ASR. Also, ASR and other ranges in SoCal don't have the dramatic temperature shifts you encounter in Wyoming. I've shot in the low 50-120F range and while there is some POI shift it isn't dramatic when matching loads are shot.
Note that I clean the bore very sparingly - I just keep the chamber clean and only clean the bore when absolutely "necessary" or if I start feeling guilty because I haven't cleaned it for several hundred rounds. This is a far cry from when I first started shooting some 38 years or so ago - I used to clean to bare metal but now I just clean the chamber and leave the bore fouled. If I clean to the metal it takes my gun 10-15 or more rounds before my POI is dead-on and I'm stacking the rounds on top of each other again. Fouling the bore is a waste of ammo.
I attribute my X-Ray's consistent POI between CDB and WDB to Tac Ops methods, exacting machining, and attention-to-detail - the function of every part and how it operates in relation to the rest of the system is considered. I mentioned that depending upon the rifle, Tac Ops barrel torque is between 220-280 ft/lbs. This is possible through Tac Op's use of a special receiver-to-barrel connection. Tac Ops machines special threads for the receiver-to-barrel connection that withstand higher torque. The superior clamping and higher torque eliminates loosening and movement as the barrel and receiver heat-up. The receiver and barrel are also tempered and stress-relieved. The stress relieved, high-torque connection does not allow the gross metalurgical and dimensional changes that occur without these processes.
Keith
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: brinkhdlow</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey Keith,
While I am waiting for Mike to build the super special Delta 51 (Holly $h!t, the suspense is killing me)
There are a lot of variables that can account for the shifting POI, including a "cold shooter". Do you go straight for the .308 when you get to the range? If so, try warming-up with a few dry-fire follow-throughs before you go hot. Get behind the rifle, focus the scope on your target, and concentrate on the target as you squeeze the trigger slowly, holding the crosshair on the exact aiming point (theorietically the POI) throughout the firing cycle. Your crosshair should remain centered on the target until after the ring from the firing pin fades.
Now, consider is that the 40X is a factory gun. As such, you shouldn't your 40X expect to shoot to the same POI between CB and WB - most rifles won't. The 40X is a nice rifle but its' still a production rifle with a factory barrel which aren't stress-relieved. Another thing is that Remington only torques the barrels to around 40 ft/lbs., and as the receiver and barrel heat-up, the change in connection dimensions, combined with the low torque on the barrel causes a POI shift. Some gunsmith torque barrels to 60 ft/lbs while some might go to 80 ft/lbs or even 100+ ft/lbs. Tac Ops uses a much higher torque - 220-280 ft/lbs depending upon the rifle.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: brinkhdlow</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Also, I was reading another thread where you were talking about your X-Ray and how consistent your P.O.I. is between your Cold Dirty Bore and your Warm Dirty Bore. Do you notice any change what so ever in the P.O.I. from Cold Dirty Bore to Warm Dirty Bore and what P.O.A. P.O.I. change (if any) have you noticed in going from one extreme environment to another, i.e. Wyoming’s 100 degree plus temps to subzero temps
Thanks
</div></div>
My rifle doesn't have a shift of POI between CDB and WDB. Since I shoot at ASR most often I always zero my X-Ray 51 there. Once I have a solid 100 yard zero for the lot of ammo or load I'm shooting I am GTG at ASR. I always check my (100 yard) zero before I start shooting, and as long as I dry-fired a few times before I chamber my first round of the day my CDB shot is always dead on the money. I also know that if I chronograph that lot or load (which I always do) and make a drop chart that I will be dead-on at <span style="font-style: italic">whatever</span> distances I shoot at ASR. Also, ASR and other ranges in SoCal don't have the dramatic temperature shifts you encounter in Wyoming. I've shot in the low 50-120F range and while there is some POI shift it isn't dramatic when matching loads are shot.
Note that I clean the bore very sparingly - I just keep the chamber clean and only clean the bore when absolutely "necessary" or if I start feeling guilty because I haven't cleaned it for several hundred rounds. This is a far cry from when I first started shooting some 38 years or so ago - I used to clean to bare metal but now I just clean the chamber and leave the bore fouled. If I clean to the metal it takes my gun 10-15 or more rounds before my POI is dead-on and I'm stacking the rounds on top of each other again. Fouling the bore is a waste of ammo.
I attribute my X-Ray's consistent POI between CDB and WDB to Tac Ops methods, exacting machining, and attention-to-detail - the function of every part and how it operates in relation to the rest of the system is considered. I mentioned that depending upon the rifle, Tac Ops barrel torque is between 220-280 ft/lbs. This is possible through Tac Op's use of a special receiver-to-barrel connection. Tac Ops machines special threads for the receiver-to-barrel connection that withstand higher torque. The superior clamping and higher torque eliminates loosening and movement as the barrel and receiver heat-up. The receiver and barrel are also tempered and stress-relieved. The stress relieved, high-torque connection does not allow the gross metalurgical and dimensional changes that occur without these processes.
Keith
Re: Tac Ops Delta 51
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Re: Tac Ops Delta 51
Hey Keith
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Aries64</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> There are a lot of variables that can account for the shifting POI, including a "cold shooter". Do you go straight for the .308 when you get to the range? If so, try warming-up with a few dry-fire follow-throughs before you go hot. Get behind the rifle, focus the scope on your target, and concentrate on the target as you squeeze the trigger slowly, holding the crosshair on the exact aiming point (theorietically the POI) throughout the firing cycle. Your crosshair should remain centered on the target until after the ring from the firing pin fades.</div></div>
Ya, I will go strat for the 308 without warming up, i.e. dry firing. I feel like I have good follow through. I feel I know right where the crosshairs when sear breaks and the bullet is sent down the tube. I am going to take your advised though and give the dry fires a shot cause there is a good chance I am full of shit, lol it happens a lot.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Aries64</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Now, consider is that the 40X is a factory gun. As such, you shouldn't your 40X expect to shoot to the same POI between CB and WB - most rifles won't. The 40X is a nice rifle but its' still a production rifle with a factory barrel which aren't stress-relieved. Another thing is that Remington only torques the barrels to around 40 ft/lbs., and as the receiver and barrel heat-up, the change in connection dimensions, combined with the low torque on the barrel causes a POI shift. Some gunsmith torque barrels to 60 ft/lbs while some might go to 80 ft/lbs or even 100+ ft/lbs. Tac Ops uses a much higher torque -220-280 ft/lbs depending upon the rifle.</div></div>
Good info to know. What is so special about the Remington 40-X over the a tacticl Remington 700?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Aries64</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> My rifle doesn't have a shift of POI between CDB and WDB. Since I shoot at ASR most often I always zero my X-Ray 51 there. Once I have a solid 100 yard zero for the lot of ammo or load I'm shooting I am GTG at ASR. I always check my (100 yard) zero before I start shooting, and as long as I dry-fired a few times before I chamber my first round of the day my CDB shot is always dead on the money. I also know that if I chronograph that lot or load (which I always do) and make a drop chart that I will be dead-on at whatever distances I shoot at ASR. Also, ASR and other ranges in SoCal don't have the dramatic temperature shifts you encounter in Wyoming. I've shot in the low 50-120F range and while there is some POI shift it isn't dramatic when matching loads are shot. </div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Aries64</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I attribute my X-Ray's consistent POI between CDB and WDB to Tac Ops methods, exacting machining, and attention-to-detail - the function of every part and how it operates in relation to the rest of the system is considered. I mentioned that depending upon the rifle, Tac Ops barrel torque is between 220-280 ft/lbs. This is possible through Tac Op's use of a special receiver-to-barrel connection. Tac Ops machines special threads for the receiver-to-barrel connection that withstand higher torque. The superior clamping and higher torque eliminates loosening and movement as the barrel and receiver heat-up. The receiver and barrel are also tempered and stress-relieved. The stress relieved, high-torque connection does not allow the gross metalurgical and dimensional changes that occur without these processes. </div></div>
That is why I chose to go with tac-ops for a rifle. In my profession that cold bore shot is going to be the most important shot I take, I may not get a second. I talked with one other fella up here in Wyoming who told me about Mike and Tac Ops and how reliable and accurate Mike’s rifles were. I know that metal expands and contracts with heat and cold so the info you provided does help. From what I am gathering, the only effect I should see on the POI is what the environmental conditions do to the bullets flight pattern to change the POI and is not related to the expansion and contraction of the metal with heat and cold because of the high torch spec on the barrel and action, I think, LOL.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Aries64</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Note that I clean the bore very sparingly - I just keep the chamber clean and only clean the bore when absolutely "necessary" or if I start feeling guilty because I haven't cleaned it for several hundred rounds. This is a far cry from when I first started shooting some 38 years or so ago - I used to clean to bare metal but now I just clean the chamber and leave the bore fouled. If I clean to the metal it takes my gun 10-15 or more rounds before my POI is dead-on and I'm stacking the rounds on top of each other again. Fouling the bore is a waste of ammo.
</div></div>
This is a frustrating topic. I have been told so many things on how to clean. I have been told to run your gun clean (Not Fouled) that way you know exactly what your rifle is going to do(I don’t think I believe that, but I could be wrong). I have been told to clean the barrel, then shoot three rounds down the tube and leave it. The cleaning topic has always been a sticky topic and seems to be full of opinions. I can tell you one thing, I am going to try your method and see if it helps.
Thanks for the Help Keith and sorry it took so long to get back to ya.
Busy, Busy, Busy,
Murel
Hey Keith
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Aries64</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> There are a lot of variables that can account for the shifting POI, including a "cold shooter". Do you go straight for the .308 when you get to the range? If so, try warming-up with a few dry-fire follow-throughs before you go hot. Get behind the rifle, focus the scope on your target, and concentrate on the target as you squeeze the trigger slowly, holding the crosshair on the exact aiming point (theorietically the POI) throughout the firing cycle. Your crosshair should remain centered on the target until after the ring from the firing pin fades.</div></div>
Ya, I will go strat for the 308 without warming up, i.e. dry firing. I feel like I have good follow through. I feel I know right where the crosshairs when sear breaks and the bullet is sent down the tube. I am going to take your advised though and give the dry fires a shot cause there is a good chance I am full of shit, lol it happens a lot.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Aries64</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Now, consider is that the 40X is a factory gun. As such, you shouldn't your 40X expect to shoot to the same POI between CB and WB - most rifles won't. The 40X is a nice rifle but its' still a production rifle with a factory barrel which aren't stress-relieved. Another thing is that Remington only torques the barrels to around 40 ft/lbs., and as the receiver and barrel heat-up, the change in connection dimensions, combined with the low torque on the barrel causes a POI shift. Some gunsmith torque barrels to 60 ft/lbs while some might go to 80 ft/lbs or even 100+ ft/lbs. Tac Ops uses a much higher torque -220-280 ft/lbs depending upon the rifle.</div></div>
Good info to know. What is so special about the Remington 40-X over the a tacticl Remington 700?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Aries64</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> My rifle doesn't have a shift of POI between CDB and WDB. Since I shoot at ASR most often I always zero my X-Ray 51 there. Once I have a solid 100 yard zero for the lot of ammo or load I'm shooting I am GTG at ASR. I always check my (100 yard) zero before I start shooting, and as long as I dry-fired a few times before I chamber my first round of the day my CDB shot is always dead on the money. I also know that if I chronograph that lot or load (which I always do) and make a drop chart that I will be dead-on at whatever distances I shoot at ASR. Also, ASR and other ranges in SoCal don't have the dramatic temperature shifts you encounter in Wyoming. I've shot in the low 50-120F range and while there is some POI shift it isn't dramatic when matching loads are shot. </div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Aries64</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I attribute my X-Ray's consistent POI between CDB and WDB to Tac Ops methods, exacting machining, and attention-to-detail - the function of every part and how it operates in relation to the rest of the system is considered. I mentioned that depending upon the rifle, Tac Ops barrel torque is between 220-280 ft/lbs. This is possible through Tac Op's use of a special receiver-to-barrel connection. Tac Ops machines special threads for the receiver-to-barrel connection that withstand higher torque. The superior clamping and higher torque eliminates loosening and movement as the barrel and receiver heat-up. The receiver and barrel are also tempered and stress-relieved. The stress relieved, high-torque connection does not allow the gross metalurgical and dimensional changes that occur without these processes. </div></div>
That is why I chose to go with tac-ops for a rifle. In my profession that cold bore shot is going to be the most important shot I take, I may not get a second. I talked with one other fella up here in Wyoming who told me about Mike and Tac Ops and how reliable and accurate Mike’s rifles were. I know that metal expands and contracts with heat and cold so the info you provided does help. From what I am gathering, the only effect I should see on the POI is what the environmental conditions do to the bullets flight pattern to change the POI and is not related to the expansion and contraction of the metal with heat and cold because of the high torch spec on the barrel and action, I think, LOL.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Aries64</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Note that I clean the bore very sparingly - I just keep the chamber clean and only clean the bore when absolutely "necessary" or if I start feeling guilty because I haven't cleaned it for several hundred rounds. This is a far cry from when I first started shooting some 38 years or so ago - I used to clean to bare metal but now I just clean the chamber and leave the bore fouled. If I clean to the metal it takes my gun 10-15 or more rounds before my POI is dead-on and I'm stacking the rounds on top of each other again. Fouling the bore is a waste of ammo.
</div></div>
This is a frustrating topic. I have been told so many things on how to clean. I have been told to run your gun clean (Not Fouled) that way you know exactly what your rifle is going to do(I don’t think I believe that, but I could be wrong). I have been told to clean the barrel, then shoot three rounds down the tube and leave it. The cleaning topic has always been a sticky topic and seems to be full of opinions. I can tell you one thing, I am going to try your method and see if it helps.
Thanks for the Help Keith and sorry it took so long to get back to ya.
Busy, Busy, Busy,
Murel
Re: Tac Ops Delta 51
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: brinkhdlow</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey Keith
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Aries64</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> There are a lot of variables that can account for the shifting POI, including a "cold shooter". Do you go straight for the .308 when you get to the range? If so, try warming-up with a few dry-fire follow-throughs before you go hot. Get behind the rifle, focus the scope on your target, and concentrate on the target as you squeeze the trigger slowly, holding the crosshair on the exact aiming point (theorietically the POI) throughout the firing cycle. Your crosshair should remain centered on the target until after the ring from the firing pin fades.</div></div>
Ya, I will go strat for the 308 without warming up, i.e. dry firing. I feel like I have good follow through. I feel I know right where the crosshairs when sear breaks and the bullet is sent down the tube. I am going to take your advised though and give the dry fires a shot cause there is a good chance I am full of shit, lol it happens a lot.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Aries64</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Now, consider is that the 40X is a factory gun. As such, you shouldn't your 40X expect to shoot to the same POI between CB and WB - most rifles won't. The 40X is a nice rifle but its' still a production rifle with a factory barrel which aren't stress-relieved. Another thing is that Remington only torques the barrels to around 40 ft/lbs., and as the receiver and barrel heat-up, the change in connection dimensions, combined with the low torque on the barrel causes a POI shift. Some gunsmith torque barrels to 60 ft/lbs while some might go to 80 ft/lbs or even 100+ ft/lbs. Tac Ops uses a much higher torque -220-280 ft/lbs depending upon the rifle.</div></div>
Good info to know. What is so special about the Remington 40-X over the a tacticl Remington 700?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Aries64</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> My rifle doesn't have a shift of POI between CDB and WDB. Since I shoot at ASR most often I always zero my X-Ray 51 there. Once I have a solid 100 yard zero for the lot of ammo or load I'm shooting I am GTG at ASR. I always check my (100 yard) zero before I start shooting, and as long as I dry-fired a few times before I chamber my first round of the day my CDB shot is always dead on the money. I also know that if I chronograph that lot or load (which I always do) and make a drop chart that I will be dead-on at whatever distances I shoot at ASR. Also, ASR and other ranges in SoCal don't have the dramatic temperature shifts you encounter in Wyoming. I've shot in the low 50-120F range and while there is some POI shift it isn't dramatic when matching loads are shot. </div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Aries64</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I attribute my X-Ray's consistent POI between CDB and WDB to Tac Ops methods, exacting machining, and attention-to-detail - the function of every part and how it operates in relation to the rest of the system is considered. I mentioned that depending upon the rifle, Tac Ops barrel torque is between 220-280 ft/lbs. This is possible through Tac Op's use of a special receiver-to-barrel connection. Tac Ops machines special threads for the receiver-to-barrel connection that withstand higher torque. The superior clamping and higher torque eliminates loosening and movement as the barrel and receiver heat-up. The receiver and barrel are also tempered and stress-relieved. The stress relieved, high-torque connection does not allow the gross metalurgical and dimensional changes that occur without these processes. </div></div>
That is why I chose to go with tac-ops for a rifle. In my profession that cold bore shot is going to be the most important shot I take, I may not get a second. I talked with one other fella up here in Wyoming who told me about Mike and Tac Ops and how reliable and accurate Mike’s rifles were. I know that metal expands and contracts with heat and cold so the info you provided does help. From what I am gathering, the only effect I should see on the POI is what the environmental conditions do to the bullets flight pattern to change the POI and is not related to the expansion and contraction of the metal with heat and cold because of the high torch spec on the barrel and action, I think, LOL.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Aries64</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Note that I clean the bore very sparingly - I just keep the chamber clean and only clean the bore when absolutely "necessary" or if I start feeling guilty because I haven't cleaned it for several hundred rounds. This is a far cry from when I first started shooting some 38 years or so ago - I used to clean to bare metal but now I just clean the chamber and leave the bore fouled. If I clean to the metal it takes my gun 10-15 or more rounds before my POI is dead-on and I'm stacking the rounds on top of each other again. Fouling the bore is a waste of ammo.
</div></div>
This is a frustrating topic. I have been told so many things on how to clean. I have been told to run your gun clean (Not Fouled) that way you know exactly what your rifle is going to do(I don’t think I believe that, but I could be wrong). I have been told to clean the barrel, then shoot three rounds down the tube and leave it. The cleaning topic has always been a sticky topic and seems to be full of opinions. I can tell you one thing, I am going to try your method and see if it helps.
Thanks for the Help Keith and sorry it took so long to get back to ya.
Busy, Busy, Busy,
Murel
</div></div>
No problem Murel. While no amount of dry-firing will replace live-fire, dry-firing is excellent for basic follow-through exercise and knowing your rifle's trigger break. Due to work, personal, and community obligations I've scarcely been able to shoot for quite a while, and I haven't even been dry-firing (I hate dry-firing with my Kimber Model 82, as the rim gets all mashed-up and then the claw extractor doesn't always want to pull the case out easily. Then I have to run a minor diameter wooden dowel down through the muzzle end (a huge no-no) to clear the breech.
As to your question of <span style="font-style: italic">"Whats' so special about the 40X?"</span> Personnally, I don't find them compelling at all. As I understand it there is about one year wait for one - and really, its' not like a 40X will shoot as well as a custom gun anyway. At least a custom gun built by the right gunsmith.
With regards to <span style="font-style: italic">"From what I am gathering, the only effect I should see on the POI is what the environmental conditions do to the bullets flight pattern to change the POI and is not related to the expansion and contraction of the metal with heat and cold because of the high torch spec on the barrel and action, I think, LOL"</span> - thats' pretty much it. By your occupation and assignment I presume that your skills are very practiced, and I believe that after you receive your Delta 51 you'll find what I said to be true.
And finally, with regards to cleaning - I have also read about many different cleaning methods/rituals that some shooters practice. Like I said - I used to clean to bare metal (as in I kept alternating wet and dry patches until both the wet and dry patches came out without any trace of powder). I know that the LASD SEB Teams always foul their barrels so they know their POA will be their POI.
I also used to "break-in" barrels by cleaning every five rounds up to the first 25 rounds, then consider the barrel broken-in (I think that barrel quality has a lot to do with it too). Tac Ops only uses Krieger and Obermeyer barrels, and when I picked-up my X-Ray 51 I asked Mike Rescigno about break-in he told me to<span style="font-style: italic">"Just shoot it"</span>. I thought <span style="font-style: italic">"Well shit, if Mike says that, it must be OK"</span>. And thats' just what I did.
Keith
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: brinkhdlow</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey Keith
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Aries64</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> There are a lot of variables that can account for the shifting POI, including a "cold shooter". Do you go straight for the .308 when you get to the range? If so, try warming-up with a few dry-fire follow-throughs before you go hot. Get behind the rifle, focus the scope on your target, and concentrate on the target as you squeeze the trigger slowly, holding the crosshair on the exact aiming point (theorietically the POI) throughout the firing cycle. Your crosshair should remain centered on the target until after the ring from the firing pin fades.</div></div>
Ya, I will go strat for the 308 without warming up, i.e. dry firing. I feel like I have good follow through. I feel I know right where the crosshairs when sear breaks and the bullet is sent down the tube. I am going to take your advised though and give the dry fires a shot cause there is a good chance I am full of shit, lol it happens a lot.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Aries64</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Now, consider is that the 40X is a factory gun. As such, you shouldn't your 40X expect to shoot to the same POI between CB and WB - most rifles won't. The 40X is a nice rifle but its' still a production rifle with a factory barrel which aren't stress-relieved. Another thing is that Remington only torques the barrels to around 40 ft/lbs., and as the receiver and barrel heat-up, the change in connection dimensions, combined with the low torque on the barrel causes a POI shift. Some gunsmith torque barrels to 60 ft/lbs while some might go to 80 ft/lbs or even 100+ ft/lbs. Tac Ops uses a much higher torque -220-280 ft/lbs depending upon the rifle.</div></div>
Good info to know. What is so special about the Remington 40-X over the a tacticl Remington 700?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Aries64</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> My rifle doesn't have a shift of POI between CDB and WDB. Since I shoot at ASR most often I always zero my X-Ray 51 there. Once I have a solid 100 yard zero for the lot of ammo or load I'm shooting I am GTG at ASR. I always check my (100 yard) zero before I start shooting, and as long as I dry-fired a few times before I chamber my first round of the day my CDB shot is always dead on the money. I also know that if I chronograph that lot or load (which I always do) and make a drop chart that I will be dead-on at whatever distances I shoot at ASR. Also, ASR and other ranges in SoCal don't have the dramatic temperature shifts you encounter in Wyoming. I've shot in the low 50-120F range and while there is some POI shift it isn't dramatic when matching loads are shot. </div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Aries64</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I attribute my X-Ray's consistent POI between CDB and WDB to Tac Ops methods, exacting machining, and attention-to-detail - the function of every part and how it operates in relation to the rest of the system is considered. I mentioned that depending upon the rifle, Tac Ops barrel torque is between 220-280 ft/lbs. This is possible through Tac Op's use of a special receiver-to-barrel connection. Tac Ops machines special threads for the receiver-to-barrel connection that withstand higher torque. The superior clamping and higher torque eliminates loosening and movement as the barrel and receiver heat-up. The receiver and barrel are also tempered and stress-relieved. The stress relieved, high-torque connection does not allow the gross metalurgical and dimensional changes that occur without these processes. </div></div>
That is why I chose to go with tac-ops for a rifle. In my profession that cold bore shot is going to be the most important shot I take, I may not get a second. I talked with one other fella up here in Wyoming who told me about Mike and Tac Ops and how reliable and accurate Mike’s rifles were. I know that metal expands and contracts with heat and cold so the info you provided does help. From what I am gathering, the only effect I should see on the POI is what the environmental conditions do to the bullets flight pattern to change the POI and is not related to the expansion and contraction of the metal with heat and cold because of the high torch spec on the barrel and action, I think, LOL.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Aries64</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Note that I clean the bore very sparingly - I just keep the chamber clean and only clean the bore when absolutely "necessary" or if I start feeling guilty because I haven't cleaned it for several hundred rounds. This is a far cry from when I first started shooting some 38 years or so ago - I used to clean to bare metal but now I just clean the chamber and leave the bore fouled. If I clean to the metal it takes my gun 10-15 or more rounds before my POI is dead-on and I'm stacking the rounds on top of each other again. Fouling the bore is a waste of ammo.
</div></div>
This is a frustrating topic. I have been told so many things on how to clean. I have been told to run your gun clean (Not Fouled) that way you know exactly what your rifle is going to do(I don’t think I believe that, but I could be wrong). I have been told to clean the barrel, then shoot three rounds down the tube and leave it. The cleaning topic has always been a sticky topic and seems to be full of opinions. I can tell you one thing, I am going to try your method and see if it helps.
Thanks for the Help Keith and sorry it took so long to get back to ya.
Busy, Busy, Busy,
Murel
</div></div>
No problem Murel. While no amount of dry-firing will replace live-fire, dry-firing is excellent for basic follow-through exercise and knowing your rifle's trigger break. Due to work, personal, and community obligations I've scarcely been able to shoot for quite a while, and I haven't even been dry-firing (I hate dry-firing with my Kimber Model 82, as the rim gets all mashed-up and then the claw extractor doesn't always want to pull the case out easily. Then I have to run a minor diameter wooden dowel down through the muzzle end (a huge no-no) to clear the breech.
As to your question of <span style="font-style: italic">"Whats' so special about the 40X?"</span> Personnally, I don't find them compelling at all. As I understand it there is about one year wait for one - and really, its' not like a 40X will shoot as well as a custom gun anyway. At least a custom gun built by the right gunsmith.
With regards to <span style="font-style: italic">"From what I am gathering, the only effect I should see on the POI is what the environmental conditions do to the bullets flight pattern to change the POI and is not related to the expansion and contraction of the metal with heat and cold because of the high torch spec on the barrel and action, I think, LOL"</span> - thats' pretty much it. By your occupation and assignment I presume that your skills are very practiced, and I believe that after you receive your Delta 51 you'll find what I said to be true.
And finally, with regards to cleaning - I have also read about many different cleaning methods/rituals that some shooters practice. Like I said - I used to clean to bare metal (as in I kept alternating wet and dry patches until both the wet and dry patches came out without any trace of powder). I know that the LASD SEB Teams always foul their barrels so they know their POA will be their POI.
I also used to "break-in" barrels by cleaning every five rounds up to the first 25 rounds, then consider the barrel broken-in (I think that barrel quality has a lot to do with it too). Tac Ops only uses Krieger and Obermeyer barrels, and when I picked-up my X-Ray 51 I asked Mike Rescigno about break-in he told me to<span style="font-style: italic">"Just shoot it"</span>. I thought <span style="font-style: italic">"Well shit, if Mike says that, it must be OK"</span>. And thats' just what I did.
Keith
Re: Tac Ops Delta 51
Cool,
Thanks Keith for the advice.
I can’t wait for that Delta 51. It is going to be sweet!!! I will definately keep you posted on what is going on, hell, you will probably see before I do, LOL.
Take it easy Keith,
Murel
Cool,
Thanks Keith for the advice.
I can’t wait for that Delta 51. It is going to be sweet!!! I will definately keep you posted on what is going on, hell, you will probably see before I do, LOL.
Take it easy Keith,
Murel
Re: Tac Ops Delta 51
Man, I had been checking through the forum over the last couple of weeks and it was looking like there were quite a few guys getting the Tac Ops rifles. Well, Mike called me the other day and told me to get ready because he was finishing things up with mine and should be shipped any day! Holly Shit!, I'm more excited than a crackhead who’s never seen snow!
Man, I had been checking through the forum over the last couple of weeks and it was looking like there were quite a few guys getting the Tac Ops rifles. Well, Mike called me the other day and told me to get ready because he was finishing things up with mine and should be shipped any day! Holly Shit!, I'm more excited than a crackhead who’s never seen snow!
Re: Tac Ops Delta 51
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: brinkhdlow</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Man, I had been checking through the forum over the last couple of weeks and it was looking like there were quite a few guys getting the Tac Ops rifles. Well, Mike called me the other day and told me to get ready because he was finishing things up with mine and should be shipped any day! Holly Shit!, I'm more excited than a crackhead who’s never seen snow! </div></div>Just curious, but how long was your wait? One year plus?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: brinkhdlow</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Man, I had been checking through the forum over the last couple of weeks and it was looking like there were quite a few guys getting the Tac Ops rifles. Well, Mike called me the other day and told me to get ready because he was finishing things up with mine and should be shipped any day! Holly Shit!, I'm more excited than a crackhead who’s never seen snow! </div></div>Just curious, but how long was your wait? One year plus?
Re: Tac Ops Delta 51
<span style="font-weight: bold">Murel,
Happy Holidays your Delta 51 is ready for me to take to the range and certify
If all goes to my liking I should ship in a few days...
Mike
Tac Ops</span>
<span style="font-weight: bold">Murel,
Happy Holidays your Delta 51 is ready for me to take to the range and certify
Mike
Tac Ops</span>
Re: Tac Ops Delta 51
First off I want to get a little disclaimer out there. I do not work for Tac Ops. I am simply a customer who has ordered one rifle thus far. My knowledge base on wait times, what happens and how it happens is very, very, very minimal.
Ahhh, I feel better.
Wait times for Tac Ops Rifle depend on a multitude of different things, parts availably and order volume just to name a few. I have heard guys can get their rifles within 9 months to a year, others over a year. In my case, the wait time was over a year, but alas, the time is drawing near that little Delta 51 will be in my gummy little hands!
First off I want to get a little disclaimer out there. I do not work for Tac Ops. I am simply a customer who has ordered one rifle thus far. My knowledge base on wait times, what happens and how it happens is very, very, very minimal.
Ahhh, I feel better.
Wait times for Tac Ops Rifle depend on a multitude of different things, parts availably and order volume just to name a few. I have heard guys can get their rifles within 9 months to a year, others over a year. In my case, the wait time was over a year, but alas, the time is drawing near that little Delta 51 will be in my gummy little hands!
Re: Tac Ops Delta 51
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Black Ops</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<span style="font-weight: bold">Murel,
Happy Holidays your Delta 51 is ready for me to take to the range and certify If all goes to my liking I should ship in a few days...
Mike
Tac Ops</span> </div></div>
Hope your Holidays were great and family is doing well Mike! How did that Rail system turn out? I am sure Sexy as SHIT!
Oh Just remembered one thing. Is it a McCann MIRS?
Thanks, Murel
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Black Ops</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<span style="font-weight: bold">Murel,
Happy Holidays your Delta 51 is ready for me to take to the range and certify
Mike
Tac Ops</span> </div></div>
Hope your Holidays were great and family is doing well Mike! How did that Rail system turn out? I am sure Sexy as SHIT!
Oh Just remembered one thing. Is it a McCann MIRS?
Thanks, Murel
Re: Tac Ops Delta 51
Well the day has finally come!!! Mike did an outstanding job on this one. Over the past year I have been reading reviews on Tac Ops rifles while waiting for my Delta 51 to get finished. Reading those reviews did not make it any easier waiting, but I am here to say, most of what I read was true:
“You won’t be able to blame shitty shooting on the rifle”
“You have no idea what you are getting till you hold one”
The list can go on and on.
One of my favorite quotes is “They are worth the wait”.
After I got the rifle, this quote reminded me of when I was a small child, or even a young adult, when someone much older and wiser then I would give me advice such as “you’re going to pay for that shit later”. I would think to myself at the time “what does that old fucker know anyway” and just keep doing what I was doing. Then I find myself in their shoes and thought, “Well, know shit. They were right”. Well, this is why this quote was my favorite, because now I understand what all of you “old guys " who own one are talking about now.
I can say now, after holding my Delta in my hands, THEY ARE WORTH THE WAIT!
I want to thank Mike for being a cool S.O.B. and doing an outstanding job. I also want to thank his staff! I have dealt with Mike mostly, but there have been times I have dealt with his staff and they have been OUTSTANDING! The attention to detail and craftsmanship on this rifle is phenomenal and I am sure is second to none!
Now, onto the good shit! Here are some pictures of my Delta 51.
Specs: Tac Ops Delta 51
Optic: Nightforce NXS 5.5X22-50 w/ NP-R1 reticle.
Bipod: Harris BRM-S & LT706 QD Mount (thanks Keith)
Front Rail: McCann SIRS (Stock Imbedded Rail System) Mount
[img:center]
[/img]
[img:center]
[/img]
[img:center]
[/img]
[img:center]
[/img]
I was a little shocked; I expected the test target to have a better group then this.
[img:center]
[/img]
My groups at 100yards and 200yards.
Using: SMK 168
Wind: None
Temp: Apx 40 F
[img:center]
[/img]
This rifle was worth every penny and the wait! If you are thinking of buying one, my advice:
1. be patient
2. be patient
3. be patient
Because it’s worth it!
I will keep you posted with updates once the Can comes in.
Well the day has finally come!!! Mike did an outstanding job on this one. Over the past year I have been reading reviews on Tac Ops rifles while waiting for my Delta 51 to get finished. Reading those reviews did not make it any easier waiting, but I am here to say, most of what I read was true:
“You won’t be able to blame shitty shooting on the rifle”
“You have no idea what you are getting till you hold one”
The list can go on and on.
One of my favorite quotes is “They are worth the wait”.
After I got the rifle, this quote reminded me of when I was a small child, or even a young adult, when someone much older and wiser then I would give me advice such as “you’re going to pay for that shit later”. I would think to myself at the time “what does that old fucker know anyway” and just keep doing what I was doing. Then I find myself in their shoes and thought, “Well, know shit. They were right”. Well, this is why this quote was my favorite, because now I understand what all of you “old guys
I can say now, after holding my Delta in my hands, THEY ARE WORTH THE WAIT!
I want to thank Mike for being a cool S.O.B. and doing an outstanding job. I also want to thank his staff! I have dealt with Mike mostly, but there have been times I have dealt with his staff and they have been OUTSTANDING! The attention to detail and craftsmanship on this rifle is phenomenal and I am sure is second to none!
Now, onto the good shit! Here are some pictures of my Delta 51.
Specs: Tac Ops Delta 51
Optic: Nightforce NXS 5.5X22-50 w/ NP-R1 reticle.
Bipod: Harris BRM-S & LT706 QD Mount (thanks Keith)
Front Rail: McCann SIRS (Stock Imbedded Rail System) Mount
[img:center]
[img:center]
[img:center]
[img:center]
I was a little shocked; I expected the test target to have a better group then this.
[img:center]
My groups at 100yards and 200yards.
Using: SMK 168
Wind: None
Temp: Apx 40 F
[img:center]
This rifle was worth every penny and the wait! If you are thinking of buying one, my advice:
1. be patient
2. be patient
3. be patient
Because it’s worth it!
I will keep you posted with updates once the Can comes in.
Re: Tac Ops Delta 51
Murel,
Thank you for the kind words it was a pleasure to build you a Delta 51. You were a complete gentleman during the process and I look forward to working with you and your Team in the near future...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How long was the wait?</div></div>
To answer your question he got it when he got it
<span style="font-weight: bold">Mike
Tac Ops</span>
Murel,
Thank you for the kind words it was a pleasure to build you a Delta 51. You were a complete gentleman during the process and I look forward to working with you and your Team in the near future...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How long was the wait?</div></div>
To answer your question he got it when he got it
<span style="font-weight: bold">Mike
Tac Ops</span>
Re: Tac Ops Delta 51
That is a Beautiful Rifle.
They sure kow how to build them.
I cant wait for my Tango to be ready.
Enjoy every round you put through it.
That is a Beautiful Rifle.
They sure kow how to build them.
I cant wait for my Tango to be ready.
Enjoy every round you put through it.
Re: Tac Ops Delta 51
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That is a Beautiful Rifle.
They sure kow how to build them.
I cant wait for my Tango to be ready.
Enjoy every round you put through it.</div></div>
<span style="font-weight: bold">Danny thank you for the kind words, btw your Tango is ready in one week
Murel,
You have another package on its way
Mike
Tac Ops</span>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That is a Beautiful Rifle.
They sure kow how to build them.
I cant wait for my Tango to be ready.
Enjoy every round you put through it.</div></div>
<span style="font-weight: bold">Danny thank you for the kind words, btw your Tango is ready in one week
Murel,
You have another package on its way
Mike
Tac Ops</span>
Re: Tac Ops Delta 51
Beautiful rifles as usual Mike!
To any other patiently waiting fellas out there.....
Got a call from Mike today. He said he shot my rifle today, and is very pleased with how it turned out. Tracking/shipping info will follow tomorrow and I'll have it next week!
X-Ray 66 (300 Win Mag, McMillan A5), to go along with my Tango 51.
A long range report to follow...
Beautiful rifles as usual Mike!
To any other patiently waiting fellas out there.....
Got a call from Mike today. He said he shot my rifle today, and is very pleased with how it turned out. Tracking/shipping info will follow tomorrow and I'll have it next week!
X-Ray 66 (300 Win Mag, McMillan A5), to go along with my Tango 51.
A long range report to follow...
Re: Tac Ops Delta 51(Update 1/2013-Delivered)
Thanks again Mike, I will let you know when it comes in. I was going to ask you on the phone, did that patch ever make it your way?
Thanks again Mike, I will let you know when it comes in. I was going to ask you on the phone, did that patch ever make it your way?
Re: Tac Ops Delta 51(Update 1/2013-Delivered)
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks again Mike, I will let you know when it comes in. I was going to ask you on the phone, did that patch ever make it your way?</div></div>
<span style="font-weight: bold">Roger that Murel got it in hand and thank you. If I would have used the Williams bottom medal instead of Tac Ops I could have cut that SWAT Logo on the floor plate for you. The Tac Ops BM is too hard even using the carbide hand cutting tools it’s a shame and I do apologize…
By The way Nice Shooting At 200
Mike
Tac Ops</span>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks again Mike, I will let you know when it comes in. I was going to ask you on the phone, did that patch ever make it your way?</div></div>
<span style="font-weight: bold">Roger that Murel got it in hand and thank you. If I would have used the Williams bottom medal instead of Tac Ops I could have cut that SWAT Logo on the floor plate for you. The Tac Ops BM is too hard even using the carbide hand cutting tools it’s a shame and I do apologize…
By The way Nice Shooting At 200
Mike
Tac Ops</span>
Re: Tac Ops Delta 51(Update 1/2013-Delivered)
Yet one more excellent rifle by Mike. The man is an artrist.
Yet one more excellent rifle by Mike. The man is an artrist.
Re: Tac Ops Delta 51(Update 1/2013-Delivered)
Hell Mike, no worries!
You got nothing to apologize about! You saw the gun right? When I was deciding whether to go with your bottom metal or the Williams bottom metal it was a hard choice but I chose to go with your bottom metal because that shit look like it was built like a tank!
Glad to hear the patch made it and thanks for everything. I'm going to keep working behind the stick and maybe by the time I'm your age I'll be shooting as good as you, and that's a big maybe ! Thanks again bud!
Murel
Hell Mike, no worries!
You got nothing to apologize about! You saw the gun right?
Glad to hear the patch made it and thanks for everything. I'm going to keep working behind the stick and maybe by the time I'm your age I'll be shooting as good as you, and that's a big maybe
Murel
Re: Tac Ops Delta 51
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: brinkhdlow</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
[img:center] [/img]
</div></div>
You know, I've seen a number of test targets like these from Mike's rifles. Seems awful wasteful with how big it is. I figure something the size of a quarter (or dime) would be more environmentally friendly!
Mike is on my short list of builders when I can afford one. Congratulations on a gorgeous looking and performing rifle!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: brinkhdlow</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
[img:center]
</div></div>
You know, I've seen a number of test targets like these from Mike's rifles. Seems awful wasteful with how big it is. I figure something the size of a quarter (or dime) would be more environmentally friendly!
Mike is on my short list of builders when I can afford one. Congratulations on a gorgeous looking and performing rifle!
Re: Tac Ops Delta 51
Another beauty, congrats! I have to say the A3 stock is my favorite of all time. That Black T rail looks so good on that gun!
My Delta has been pushing 190 SMK's at 2600 with crazy good groups.
We need more pics!
Another beauty, congrats! I have to say the A3 stock is my favorite of all time. That Black T rail looks so good on that gun!
My Delta has been pushing 190 SMK's at 2600 with crazy good groups.
We need more pics!
Re: Tac Ops Delta 51
Thanks for all the complements guys! Mike sure knows how to build a shooting stick. I will have more pics on the way and another range report.
Thanks for all the complements guys! Mike sure knows how to build a shooting stick. I will have more pics on the way and another range report.
