I have been shooting my new .375 CheyTac for a few months now out to 1500 with EASE.... I need a better scope to get farther, I need more Magnification.. I'm using a 15 power NF right now, I need something with more power... Any suggestions?
- Thread starter MagicMike
- Start date
Re: Best scope for beyond 1500?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lostcoyote</div><div class="ubbcode-body">too bad it's not first focal. if it was, you can demagnify frok 25x to 20x and have much more holdover markings on the reticule to get even further
</div></div>
For ELR work, I much prefer the SFP scopes. I like the biger target and fine reticle aiming point better than a reticle that grows with the target. And I think you are thinking of the SFP. If you drop the SFP back to around 12 1/2 X it will double the available reticle hold over. The FFP will stay consistent at any power and does not allow this option. The 125 Moa the ATACR will allow most good .338's to get to 3000 yards. So the need to use hold over is greatly reduced, unless you have already become bored with your consistency at 3K and looking for the challenge of 3500 yards.
Jeff
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lostcoyote</div><div class="ubbcode-body">too bad it's not first focal. if it was, you can demagnify frok 25x to 20x and have much more holdover markings on the reticule to get even further
</div></div>
For ELR work, I much prefer the SFP scopes. I like the biger target and fine reticle aiming point better than a reticle that grows with the target. And I think you are thinking of the SFP. If you drop the SFP back to around 12 1/2 X it will double the available reticle hold over. The FFP will stay consistent at any power and does not allow this option. The 125 Moa the ATACR will allow most good .338's to get to 3000 yards. So the need to use hold over is greatly reduced, unless you have already become bored with your consistency at 3K and looking for the challenge of 3500 yards.
Jeff
Re: Best scope for beyond 1500?
I think the 32x nightforce NXS is a good compromise between magnification and elevation adjustment. They make a 42x but you're loosing range of adjustment. With the 32x and a 30 minute base I can still zero at 100 and use the full range of adjustment ~60moa, which is good for a mile. Then I can use the retical to go further. With the non-FFP reticle I can reduce magnification to hold over even more. I think I have about 110moa this way, which is good for 2500 yards with the 7wsm. Also, 8x seems to work fine for closer targets so the 8-32x works well for me.
I think the 32x nightforce NXS is a good compromise between magnification and elevation adjustment. They make a 42x but you're loosing range of adjustment. With the 32x and a 30 minute base I can still zero at 100 and use the full range of adjustment ~60moa, which is good for a mile. Then I can use the retical to go further. With the non-FFP reticle I can reduce magnification to hold over even more. I think I have about 110moa this way, which is good for 2500 yards with the 7wsm. Also, 8x seems to work fine for closer targets so the 8-32x works well for me.
Re: Best scope for beyond 1500?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MagicMikey28</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have been shooting my new .375 CheyTac for a few months now out to 1500 with EASE.... I need a better scope to get farther, I need more Magnification.. I'm using a 15 power NF right now, I need something with more power... Any suggestions? </div></div>
Get the higher end scopes such as S&B, PH, USOptics, Zeis with 25x magnification. When getting a higher magnification scopes, like the NF 12-42x56mm scope (I used to own one) it lack the elevation adjustments you needed to adjust at farther distances as it only have 12.3 MILRAD of elevation.
I own a Premier Heritage Gen 2 XR (only have 26 MILRAD elevation adjustment) and I've been using that to shoot my 6.5 Creedmoor and Savage 110BA (338LM) out to 1 mile with very good results. The glass is clear, the construction is sturdy and elevation adjustments is sufficient. I can add more elevation by getting a 40 MOA base. The downside is the bulkiness and the weight of the scope with the 34mm tube. The DETENT on each MILRAD tick marks is problematic when it's still new because it tends to jump 1-3 clicks when adjusting the turret. But it softens after some use.
I also own a Vortex Razor HD 5-20x56mm with 36 MILRAD which you will be able to stretch that Cheytac beyond 1 mile and with a 40 MOA base, we are talking about 1.5 mile
. The turret turns with ease but the glass is not as clear as the PH.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: blkgld</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Forgive my ignorance...you guys prefer SFP over FFP for long range? I am not understanding why. </div></div>
The second downside to this scope with FFP when zoomed in to max 25x, the subtensions gets thick and the thicker the subtension the harder for the shooter to aim at a very tiny target. The subtension on the Vortex Razor HD are a tad thicker than that of the PH. And just like the PH scope, it is bulky and heavy with the 35mm tube. At ultra long range targets, thinner sub-tensions such as the SFP scopes are ideal in my honest opinion.
I also have the NF 8-32x56 (SFP) and using this scope with your Cheytac, I think it will suffice out to 1 mile with its 17.7 MILRAD depending on the round you are shooting. The clarity of the glass is comparable with the Vortex Razor HD. The only downside to the NF is the lack of elevation.
Scopes with 25x magnification scopes will suffice if you intend to shoot out to 1 mile. There's a lot of people on the Optics For Sale section here where you save a lot more vs buying the scope brand new. Most of these higher end scopes are covered with full lifetime warranty regardless if you're the original owner or not just do your research first. I hope I helped you out a bit, if you have any further questions just PM me... God Speed...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MagicMikey28</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have been shooting my new .375 CheyTac for a few months now out to 1500 with EASE.... I need a better scope to get farther, I need more Magnification.. I'm using a 15 power NF right now, I need something with more power... Any suggestions? </div></div>
Get the higher end scopes such as S&B, PH, USOptics, Zeis with 25x magnification. When getting a higher magnification scopes, like the NF 12-42x56mm scope (I used to own one) it lack the elevation adjustments you needed to adjust at farther distances as it only have 12.3 MILRAD of elevation.
I own a Premier Heritage Gen 2 XR (only have 26 MILRAD elevation adjustment) and I've been using that to shoot my 6.5 Creedmoor and Savage 110BA (338LM) out to 1 mile with very good results. The glass is clear, the construction is sturdy and elevation adjustments is sufficient. I can add more elevation by getting a 40 MOA base. The downside is the bulkiness and the weight of the scope with the 34mm tube. The DETENT on each MILRAD tick marks is problematic when it's still new because it tends to jump 1-3 clicks when adjusting the turret. But it softens after some use.
I also own a Vortex Razor HD 5-20x56mm with 36 MILRAD which you will be able to stretch that Cheytac beyond 1 mile and with a 40 MOA base, we are talking about 1.5 mile
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: blkgld</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Forgive my ignorance...you guys prefer SFP over FFP for long range? I am not understanding why. </div></div>
The second downside to this scope with FFP when zoomed in to max 25x, the subtensions gets thick and the thicker the subtension the harder for the shooter to aim at a very tiny target. The subtension on the Vortex Razor HD are a tad thicker than that of the PH. And just like the PH scope, it is bulky and heavy with the 35mm tube. At ultra long range targets, thinner sub-tensions such as the SFP scopes are ideal in my honest opinion.
I also have the NF 8-32x56 (SFP) and using this scope with your Cheytac, I think it will suffice out to 1 mile with its 17.7 MILRAD depending on the round you are shooting. The clarity of the glass is comparable with the Vortex Razor HD. The only downside to the NF is the lack of elevation.
Scopes with 25x magnification scopes will suffice if you intend to shoot out to 1 mile. There's a lot of people on the Optics For Sale section here where you save a lot more vs buying the scope brand new. Most of these higher end scopes are covered with full lifetime warranty regardless if you're the original owner or not just do your research first. I hope I helped you out a bit, if you have any further questions just PM me... God Speed...
Re: Best scope for beyond 1500?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: blkgld</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Forgive my ignorance...you guys prefer SFP over FFP for long range? I am not understanding why. </div></div>
For the same reason Mike stated. I will admit I have never been a FFP fan. I will not range with a reticle, I am a long range hunter and I need a very accurate distance to my target for a first round cold bore kill. I seldom use my reticle for hold over. If I do I simply make sure it is indeed on 22X or 11 and 1/2 the hold. I am one of those guys that shoots a lot well past 1000 yards. I need a precise point of aim. A coyote at 1500 plus is much like shooting a prairie dog at 500. A fine crosshair is much better. A 1 moa rock at 2500 plus, even more so. I like the fact that with a SFP scope as I increase the power of magnification the target gets larger and the crosshairs stay fine. This reveals more target, and will allow you a better view of the hold as well as how solid you are. Also, on low power (which I seldom use) the crosshair do not get so faint that they are hard to see, like in many FFP's. The other benefit of SFP I believe was touched on earlier. With SFP if you need more elevation you can drop back to 1/2 power (11x on a 22x NXS) and your hold over moa of the reticle is now twice as much. Most of these options are best suited for ELR, and that is what the OP asked for. Call me weird, I have spent the extra cash for a FFP and hated it. Lets just say for my personal use, I have never understood the FFP craze.
Jeff
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: blkgld</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Forgive my ignorance...you guys prefer SFP over FFP for long range? I am not understanding why. </div></div>
For the same reason Mike stated. I will admit I have never been a FFP fan. I will not range with a reticle, I am a long range hunter and I need a very accurate distance to my target for a first round cold bore kill. I seldom use my reticle for hold over. If I do I simply make sure it is indeed on 22X or 11 and 1/2 the hold. I am one of those guys that shoots a lot well past 1000 yards. I need a precise point of aim. A coyote at 1500 plus is much like shooting a prairie dog at 500. A fine crosshair is much better. A 1 moa rock at 2500 plus, even more so. I like the fact that with a SFP scope as I increase the power of magnification the target gets larger and the crosshairs stay fine. This reveals more target, and will allow you a better view of the hold as well as how solid you are. Also, on low power (which I seldom use) the crosshair do not get so faint that they are hard to see, like in many FFP's. The other benefit of SFP I believe was touched on earlier. With SFP if you need more elevation you can drop back to 1/2 power (11x on a 22x NXS) and your hold over moa of the reticle is now twice as much. Most of these options are best suited for ELR, and that is what the OP asked for. Call me weird, I have spent the extra cash for a FFP and hated it. Lets just say for my personal use, I have never understood the FFP craze.
Jeff
Re: Best scope for beyond 1500?
decreasing mag does not decrease hold
going from 22x to 11x would in fact double the hold value
Using your method would ensure a first round MISS
just as well you dont use the reticle for hold, your understanding of it is incorrect
decreasing mag does not decrease hold
going from 22x to 11x would in fact double the hold value
Using your method would ensure a first round MISS
just as well you dont use the reticle for hold, your understanding of it is incorrect
Re: Best scope for beyond 1500?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jedi</div><div class="ubbcode-body">decreasing mag does not decrease hold
going from 22x to 11x would in fact double the hold value
Using your method would ensure a first round MISS
just as well you dont use the reticle for hold, your understanding of it is incorrect </div></div>
No, I understand it correctly. I think you mis-read what I wrote. I was having a hard time putting it in print. I know that if my reticle has 20 moa on 22x it will have 40 moa on 11x. So my 2 moa mark for a wind hold on 22x would be a 4 moa hold on 11x. Thus I know to make 1/2 the hold for it to be the same. I just didn't explain it well. But thank you for your concern anyway.
Jeff
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jedi</div><div class="ubbcode-body">decreasing mag does not decrease hold
going from 22x to 11x would in fact double the hold value
Using your method would ensure a first round MISS
just as well you dont use the reticle for hold, your understanding of it is incorrect </div></div>
No, I understand it correctly. I think you mis-read what I wrote. I was having a hard time putting it in print. I know that if my reticle has 20 moa on 22x it will have 40 moa on 11x. So my 2 moa mark for a wind hold on 22x would be a 4 moa hold on 11x. Thus I know to make 1/2 the hold for it to be the same. I just didn't explain it well. But thank you for your concern anyway.
Jeff
Re: Best scope for beyond 1500?
DTA/DTM shot to 3080 yards with the 375 Cheytac.
we did it with factory ammo, 40moa factory base and a standard vortex razor. FFP is the only way to go if you plan on shooting at these distances in other than perfect calm conditions. The wind alone is a huge factor and you can't dial constantly for changing conditions, you will never break the shot.
A SFP scope is going to handicap you because you you won't always be exactly half on your power range or maxed out, making your holds completely worthless. We were at 12x on a20 power scope.
The Razor reticle is fine, especially the ebr2 version. the open center allows for very fine holds at range and the huge amount of internal elevation allows me to engage targets to 2700 with a center hold.
apologies for any typographical or grammatical errors, phone is going crazy. I'll check back when on a standard comp.
Russ
DTA/DTM shot to 3080 yards with the 375 Cheytac.
we did it with factory ammo, 40moa factory base and a standard vortex razor. FFP is the only way to go if you plan on shooting at these distances in other than perfect calm conditions. The wind alone is a huge factor and you can't dial constantly for changing conditions, you will never break the shot.
A SFP scope is going to handicap you because you you won't always be exactly half on your power range or maxed out, making your holds completely worthless. We were at 12x on a20 power scope.
The Razor reticle is fine, especially the ebr2 version. the open center allows for very fine holds at range and the huge amount of internal elevation allows me to engage targets to 2700 with a center hold.
apologies for any typographical or grammatical errors, phone is going crazy. I'll check back when on a standard comp.
Russ
Re: Best scope for beyond 1500?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The Nightforce ATACR in MOA. They have improved ED glass, 25 X on top and 120+ moa of elevation. </div></div>
+ 1. My buddy just got one 5 x25 and he says its the best glass he's ever seen. He has s&b's, us optics, NF nxs's. he said it made the s&b look like shit.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The Nightforce ATACR in MOA. They have improved ED glass, 25 X on top and 120+ moa of elevation. </div></div>
+ 1. My buddy just got one 5 x25 and he says its the best glass he's ever seen. He has s&b's, us optics, NF nxs's. he said it made the s&b look like shit.
Re: Best scope for beyond 1500?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Aimsmall55</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The Nightforce ATACR in MOA. They have improved ED glass, 25 X on top and 120+ moa of elevation. </div></div>
+ 1. My buddy just got one 5 x25 and he says its the best glass he's ever seen. He has s&b's, us optics, NF nxs's. he said it made the s&b look like shit. </div></div>
Sounds like he is justifying his purchase more than anything.
I'm a huge Night Force fan. I own many, I also own multiple USO and S&B. I've had hands on the new NightForce 25x. Great glass, yes. Making German glass look like shit, sorry boys. It's on par, yes, but it's no break through in glass. The only thing that I have compared side by side to an S&B that tuly looked better was the Khales glass.
Remember, properly setting up the optic is key when comparing them. Also, separating your wallet from your decision making process is paramount.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Aimsmall55</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The Nightforce ATACR in MOA. They have improved ED glass, 25 X on top and 120+ moa of elevation. </div></div>
+ 1. My buddy just got one 5 x25 and he says its the best glass he's ever seen. He has s&b's, us optics, NF nxs's. he said it made the s&b look like shit. </div></div>
Sounds like he is justifying his purchase more than anything.
I'm a huge Night Force fan. I own many, I also own multiple USO and S&B. I've had hands on the new NightForce 25x. Great glass, yes. Making German glass look like shit, sorry boys. It's on par, yes, but it's no break through in glass. The only thing that I have compared side by side to an S&B that tuly looked better was the Khales glass.
Remember, properly setting up the optic is key when comparing them. Also, separating your wallet from your decision making process is paramount.
Re: Best scope for beyond 1500?
The ”best” is a question asked all the time and if one wants to be truthful an un-answerable question with certainty due to personal preferences. When it comes to scopes, looking at any of the top tier brands, quality of glass is generally a non-issue. If you find a certain brand that looks better for your eye, that's the one for you. To say any top tier glass makes the others look like shit... well your wrong. What I look for is proper tracking or ability of calibration within a tolerance, because that does matter. Reticle design is a personal preference much like blond, brunette, redhead, depends on what you use it for, and probably more so on which design you learned on or have the most confidence with.
For me I run a SB PMII 5-25x56 L/P P4 Fine MRAD for XLR, looking to get a Kahles 624i with MSR reticle soon for another project for XLR.
The ”best” is a question asked all the time and if one wants to be truthful an un-answerable question with certainty due to personal preferences. When it comes to scopes, looking at any of the top tier brands, quality of glass is generally a non-issue. If you find a certain brand that looks better for your eye, that's the one for you. To say any top tier glass makes the others look like shit... well your wrong. What I look for is proper tracking or ability of calibration within a tolerance, because that does matter. Reticle design is a personal preference much like blond, brunette, redhead, depends on what you use it for, and probably more so on which design you learned on or have the most confidence with.
For me I run a SB PMII 5-25x56 L/P P4 Fine MRAD for XLR, looking to get a Kahles 624i with MSR reticle soon for another project for XLR.
Re: Best scope for beyond 1500?
Don't shoot the messenger!!!! Was just relaying what he said. Never said it was FACT. Really don't give a damn either way
Don't shoot the messenger!!!! Was just relaying what he said. Never said it was FACT. Really don't give a damn either way
Re: Best scope for beyond 1500?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RussW1911 ®</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Aimsmall55</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The Nightforce ATACR in MOA. They have improved ED glass, 25 X on top and 120+ moa of elevation. </div></div>
+ 1. My buddy just got one 5 x25 and he says its the best glass he's ever seen. He has s&b's, us optics, NF nxs's. he said it made the s&b look like shit. </div></div>
Sounds like he is justifying his purchase more than anything.
I'm a huge Night Force fan. I own many, I also own multiple USO and S&B. I'v
e had hands on the new NightForce 25x. Great glass, yes. Making German glass look like shit, sorry boys. It's on par, yes, but it's no break through in glass. The only thing that I have compared side by side to an S&B that tuly looked better was the Khales glass.
Remember, properly setting up the optic is key when comparing them. Also, separating your wallet from your decision making process is paramount.</div></div>
Trust me. He doesn't have to justify anything. He's got all of them. Not like he looked through one at some point. The man literally has all of them. Just to give you a little background..... He is picking up his AI PSR from Mile High next week... And he SHOOTS. Not like he's a rich dude that thinks its cool to have the equipment yet not know dick about it. He IS a rich dude that can afford the "best" and loves shooting more than anything. But as stated that's his opinion. Didn't mean to bash the S&B's. I could never afford one. I love the plain old NF NXS mildot 5.5x22
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RussW1911 ®</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Aimsmall55</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The Nightforce ATACR in MOA. They have improved ED glass, 25 X on top and 120+ moa of elevation. </div></div>
+ 1. My buddy just got one 5 x25 and he says its the best glass he's ever seen. He has s&b's, us optics, NF nxs's. he said it made the s&b look like shit. </div></div>
Sounds like he is justifying his purchase more than anything.
I'm a huge Night Force fan. I own many, I also own multiple USO and S&B. I'v
e had hands on the new NightForce 25x. Great glass, yes. Making German glass look like shit, sorry boys. It's on par, yes, but it's no break through in glass. The only thing that I have compared side by side to an S&B that tuly looked better was the Khales glass.
Remember, properly setting up the optic is key when comparing them. Also, separating your wallet from your decision making process is paramount.</div></div>
Trust me. He doesn't have to justify anything. He's got all of them. Not like he looked through one at some point. The man literally has all of them. Just to give you a little background..... He is picking up his AI PSR from Mile High next week... And he SHOOTS. Not like he's a rich dude that thinks its cool to have the equipment yet not know dick about it. He IS a rich dude that can afford the "best" and loves shooting more than anything. But as stated that's his opinion. Didn't mean to bash the S&B's. I could never afford one. I love the plain old NF NXS mildot 5.5x22
Re: Best scope for beyond 1500?
LOL, so it seems you do give a damn....
Nobody cares how rich he is. I'm not rich, but I still have them all. Does that make me any less knowledgable? Look around, most of the people here love shooting more than anything. Heck, some of us do this shit for a living. Don't personally care if you bash this brand or that brand. I don't hold stock in any of them.
You came out here and made a superfluous statement with zero quantifacation.....
Hell I had a buddy who shot a 5 shot group with a factory Tika T3 lite in 30-06 that measured .028 with a Burris 3-9x That eats up every custom rifle in accuracy. Better sell all my GAPS and DTAs. No use for that AX 260. That shit is going to collect dust in the corner. Better cancel my Badger action and the boys at GAP to close up shop because Tika is takin over the market.
All because my buddy said so.
Sheeeeeple, theres a million of them.
LOL, so it seems you do give a damn....
Nobody cares how rich he is. I'm not rich, but I still have them all. Does that make me any less knowledgable? Look around, most of the people here love shooting more than anything. Heck, some of us do this shit for a living. Don't personally care if you bash this brand or that brand. I don't hold stock in any of them.
You came out here and made a superfluous statement with zero quantifacation.....
Hell I had a buddy who shot a 5 shot group with a factory Tika T3 lite in 30-06 that measured .028 with a Burris 3-9x That eats up every custom rifle in accuracy. Better sell all my GAPS and DTAs. No use for that AX 260. That shit is going to collect dust in the corner. Better cancel my Badger action and the boys at GAP to close up shop because Tika is takin over the market.
All because my buddy said so.
Sheeeeeple, theres a million of them.
Re: Best scope for beyond 1500?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RussW1911 ®</div><div class="ubbcode-body">LOL, so it seems you do give a damn....
Nobody cares how rich he is. I'm not rich, but I still have them all. Does that make me any less knowledgable? Look around, most of the people here love shooting more than anything. Heck, some of us do this shit for a living. Don't personally care if you bash this brand or that brand. I don't hold stock in any of them.
You came out here and made a superfluous statement with zero quantifacation.....
Hell I had a buddy who shot a 5 shot group with a factory Tika T3 lite in 30-06 that measured .028 with a Burris 3-9x That eats up every custom rifle in accuracy. Better sell all my GAPS and DTAs. No use for that AX 260. That shit is going to collect dust in the corner. Better cancel my Badger action and the boys at GAP to close up shop because Tika is takin over the market.
All because my buddy said so.
Sheeeeeple, theres a million of them.
</div></div>
First off, screw you dude. I simply said he quoted "it makes the s&b look like shit". Those werent my words. If I'm a god damned sheep, I would expect you got a full on hard on about now. And what superfluous statement did I make? The fact that you used the word "superfluous" is kinda excessive. You could have said too much info. Btw big words don't make goat fuckers any smarter
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RussW1911 ®</div><div class="ubbcode-body">LOL, so it seems you do give a damn....
Nobody cares how rich he is. I'm not rich, but I still have them all. Does that make me any less knowledgable? Look around, most of the people here love shooting more than anything. Heck, some of us do this shit for a living. Don't personally care if you bash this brand or that brand. I don't hold stock in any of them.
You came out here and made a superfluous statement with zero quantifacation.....
Hell I had a buddy who shot a 5 shot group with a factory Tika T3 lite in 30-06 that measured .028 with a Burris 3-9x That eats up every custom rifle in accuracy. Better sell all my GAPS and DTAs. No use for that AX 260. That shit is going to collect dust in the corner. Better cancel my Badger action and the boys at GAP to close up shop because Tika is takin over the market.
All because my buddy said so.
Sheeeeeple, theres a million of them.
</div></div>
First off, screw you dude. I simply said he quoted "it makes the s&b look like shit". Those werent my words. If I'm a god damned sheep, I would expect you got a full on hard on about now. And what superfluous statement did I make? The fact that you used the word "superfluous" is kinda excessive. You could have said too much info. Btw big words don't make goat fuckers any smarter
Re: Best scope for beyond 1500?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Aimsmall55</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RussW1911 ®</div><div class="ubbcode-body">LOL, so it seems you do give a damn....
Nobody cares how rich he is. I'm not rich, but I still have them all. Does that make me any less knowledgable? Look around, most of the people here love shooting more than anything. Heck, some of us do this shit for a living. Don't personally care if you bash this brand or that brand. I don't hold stock in any of them.
You came out here and made a superfluous statement with zero quantifacation.....
Hell I had a buddy who shot a 5 shot group with a factory Tika T3 lite in 30-06 that measured .028 with a Burris 3-9x That eats up every custom rifle in accuracy. Better sell all my GAPS and DTAs. No use for that AX 260. That shit is going to collect dust in the corner. Better cancel my Badger action and the boys at GAP to close up shop because Tika is takin over the market.
All because my buddy said so.
Sheeeeeple, theres a million of them.
</div></div>
First off, screw you dude. I simply said he quoted "it makes the s&b look like shit". Those werent my words. If I'm a god damned sheep, I would expect you got a full on hard on about now. And what superfluous statement did I make? The fact that you used the word "superfluous" is kinda excessive. You could have said too much info. Btw big words don't make goat fuckers any smarter </div></div>
Superfluous
1.more than necessary: in excess of what is needed
2.inessential: not essential
I think it's funny that you had to google the word to know what it meant, I hope you didn't slum it and use Bing.
Goats are strong willed animals and do there own thing. Sheep are simple animals who follow the rest, generally a female. You were an easy one to peg.
Blanket statements with no backing from a buddy who had a friend that said he met a guy who is rich.....yada yada yada.
Thick skin, get some.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Aimsmall55</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RussW1911 ®</div><div class="ubbcode-body">LOL, so it seems you do give a damn....
Nobody cares how rich he is. I'm not rich, but I still have them all. Does that make me any less knowledgable? Look around, most of the people here love shooting more than anything. Heck, some of us do this shit for a living. Don't personally care if you bash this brand or that brand. I don't hold stock in any of them.
You came out here and made a superfluous statement with zero quantifacation.....
Hell I had a buddy who shot a 5 shot group with a factory Tika T3 lite in 30-06 that measured .028 with a Burris 3-9x That eats up every custom rifle in accuracy. Better sell all my GAPS and DTAs. No use for that AX 260. That shit is going to collect dust in the corner. Better cancel my Badger action and the boys at GAP to close up shop because Tika is takin over the market.
All because my buddy said so.
Sheeeeeple, theres a million of them.
</div></div>
First off, screw you dude. I simply said he quoted "it makes the s&b look like shit". Those werent my words. If I'm a god damned sheep, I would expect you got a full on hard on about now. And what superfluous statement did I make? The fact that you used the word "superfluous" is kinda excessive. You could have said too much info. Btw big words don't make goat fuckers any smarter </div></div>
Superfluous
1.more than necessary: in excess of what is needed
2.inessential: not essential
I think it's funny that you had to google the word to know what it meant, I hope you didn't slum it and use Bing.
Goats are strong willed animals and do there own thing. Sheep are simple animals who follow the rest, generally a female. You were an easy one to peg.
Blanket statements with no backing from a buddy who had a friend that said he met a guy who is rich.....yada yada yada.
Thick skin, get some.
Re: Best scope for beyond 1500?
Boy, you seem to know a good deal about both. It's not a "rich guy I met". He's one of my very close friends. He'd probably be laughing his ass off at this retarted feud anyhow. You don't like me I don't like you. Lets just leave it at that. We all know all the scopes listed are designed very well and the glass is great. But I gotta go now. The flock is leaving me behind
Boy, you seem to know a good deal about both. It's not a "rich guy I met". He's one of my very close friends. He'd probably be laughing his ass off at this retarted feud anyhow. You don't like me I don't like you. Lets just leave it at that. We all know all the scopes listed are designed very well and the glass is great. But I gotta go now. The flock is leaving me behind
Re: Best scope for beyond 1500?
Oh and it was actually Wikipedia
Oh and it was actually Wikipedia
Re: Best scope for beyond 1500?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Aimsmall55</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Oh and it was actually Wikipedia </div></div>
I admit, that was funny.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Aimsmall55</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Oh and it was actually Wikipedia </div></div>
I admit, that was funny.
Re: Best scope for beyond 1500?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Look at the offerings from March.
They have impeccable glass quality, are durable, have fabulous elevation adjustment, amazing magnification, and are available in both SFP and FFP. </div></div>
I agree 100% with the March scope reccomendation above,but I think he forgot super duper and excellent in his scope description.
I have owned,used and tried almost every brand/model scope out there and March scopes are what top most of my ELR rifles.More magnification that I'll ever need for most cases,cause my eyes aren't getting any better and I'd rather have more and not need it.Good Luck with your choice.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Look at the offerings from March.
They have impeccable glass quality, are durable, have fabulous elevation adjustment, amazing magnification, and are available in both SFP and FFP. </div></div>
I agree 100% with the March scope reccomendation above,but I think he forgot super duper and excellent in his scope description.
I have owned,used and tried almost every brand/model scope out there and March scopes are what top most of my ELR rifles.More magnification that I'll ever need for most cases,cause my eyes aren't getting any better and I'd rather have more and not need it.Good Luck with your choice.
Re: Best scope for beyond 1500?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I will not range with a reticle, I am a long range hunter and I need a very accurate distance to my target for a first round cold bore kill.
A coyote at 1500 plus is much like shooting a prairie dog at 500. A fine crosshair is much better. </div></div>
I have to bite on this one... I disagree with your example and excuse. You're trying to use "<span style="font-style: italic">first round cold bore kill</span>" as your excuse, but then you follow it up with examples at 1500yds? And even though the reticle gets enlarged, so does the target along with it. The only way the target would get obstructed by the cross hairs is if it was smaller than the reticle on the lowest setting. So your example of a prairie dog at 500, even if I went to 15x on a FFP it would make no difference than at 5x since the crosshairs would be the same size in relation to the prairie dog on both settings. The same would apply to the coyote at 1500 which no offense, but if you could get a first round cold bore kill shot even 50% of your attempts at ranges of 1000+ then every shooting team around the world would be begging you to join them. Last, back to you need an "exact distance" but then you reference coyotes at 1500? I'll admit there are some impressive LRF out there like the Terrapin, but a coyote at 1500+?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I will not range with a reticle, I am a long range hunter and I need a very accurate distance to my target for a first round cold bore kill.
A coyote at 1500 plus is much like shooting a prairie dog at 500. A fine crosshair is much better. </div></div>
I have to bite on this one... I disagree with your example and excuse. You're trying to use "<span style="font-style: italic">first round cold bore kill</span>" as your excuse, but then you follow it up with examples at 1500yds? And even though the reticle gets enlarged, so does the target along with it. The only way the target would get obstructed by the cross hairs is if it was smaller than the reticle on the lowest setting. So your example of a prairie dog at 500, even if I went to 15x on a FFP it would make no difference than at 5x since the crosshairs would be the same size in relation to the prairie dog on both settings. The same would apply to the coyote at 1500 which no offense, but if you could get a first round cold bore kill shot even 50% of your attempts at ranges of 1000+ then every shooting team around the world would be begging you to join them. Last, back to you need an "exact distance" but then you reference coyotes at 1500? I'll admit there are some impressive LRF out there like the Terrapin, but a coyote at 1500+?
Re: Best scope for beyond 1500?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RussW1911 ®</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Goats are strong willed animals and do there own thing. Sheep are simple animals who follow the rest, generally a female. You were an easy one to peg.
</div></div>
I have to admit Russ for some reason that shit made me laugh...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RussW1911 ®</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Goats are strong willed animals and do there own thing. Sheep are simple animals who follow the rest, generally a female. You were an easy one to peg.
</div></div>
I have to admit Russ for some reason that shit made me laugh...
Re: Best scope for beyond 1500?
Good lord. This sounds like an episode of Dr Phil.
Good lord. This sounds like an episode of Dr Phil.
Re: Best scope for beyond 1500?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have to bite on this one... I disagree with your example and excuse. You're trying to use "<span style="font-style: italic">first round cold bore kill</span>" as your excuse, but then you follow it up with examples at 1500yds? And even though the reticle gets enlarged, so does the target along with it. The only way the target would get obstructed by the cross hairs is if it was smaller than the reticle on the lowest setting. So your example of a prairie dog at 500, even if I went to 15x on a FFP it would make no difference than at 5x since the crosshairs would be the same size in relation to the prairie dog on both settings. The same would apply to the coyote at 1500 which no offense, but if you could get a first round cold bore kill shot even 50% of your attempts at ranges of 1000+ then every shooting team around the world would be begging you to join them. Last, back to you need an "exact distance" but then you reference coyotes at 1500? I'll admit there are some impressive LRF out there like the Terrapin, but a coyote at 1500+? </div></div>
Well, all I can say is it sounds to me like you have never attempted to shoot a prairie dog at 500 yds. on 5X. (your example, but surely not the best suited method for this task of a fine point of aim) Also, I will guess you have not sighted on a coyote at 1500 yards or you would have understood why I prefer a thinner reticle (my personal choice) the same as most small varmint shooters for the same reason, and as do bench rest target shooters for the same reasons. I never claimed to be any sort of championship shooter. But I will say my success rate at shots of 1000 plus is decent. There are those here on the hide that I have had the pleasure to shoot beside that will attest to what I claim to do. I have taken elk, deer, antelope , and coyotes past 1000 yards on many occasions. I do insist on good conditions for this type of shot (on game) and my success rate of cold bore kills past 1000 yards is 100% on all game animals. All were one shot, first round kills. But yes I have missed several yotes past 1500. If you have shot very many coyotes you know that one shot is all you typically get unless you want to just send lead at a running dog. I did not state what I do, or prefer, to offend anyone. But it seems I pizzed in a few bowls of FFP Cheerios. I was simply offering a point of view from a shooter that does shoot 2000 yards plus. For the record my longest coyote kill is only 1236 yards. I did it prone out the slider from my bedroom. (I can and do shoot to well past 2500 from my front yard.) The yote was in wheat field stubble, I ranged him with my PLRF10 rested on sand bags, and killed him cold bore with a 300 Berger from my 338 LM. There are more than a few coyote bones in that field that are past 1000 yards from my bed room sliding door.
As for ranging a yote at 1500 plus, yes it can be done pretty easily if you rest a quality small beamed RF solidly on bags. I was ranging one at 1750 plus a few days ago but he would not stop moving and I never took the shot. I could not range them at these distances until I purchased the PLRF10. The 5 Swaros, 4 Leicas, the G7-Br2, the Zeiss nor the Newcon 3000 would do it with accuracy and consistency. If you have a yote in a golden, flat field of wheat stubble you can easily tell if you are indeed ranging the target.
I do not wish to argue. But rather would invite you to join us if you are ever in the area. Just for some friendly shooting where I will be glad to explain why I prefer what I do by letting you look through a scope so you can see what I see. I prefer not to cover my target point of aim with thick sub-tension lines. I never shoot at something, I choose to pick a small aim point on it. Again, this is why I prefer the SFP where the target does indeed grow in size as the power is increased and the reticle remains thin and does cover less target surface. This does allow me a larger appearing target and a finer point of aim.
Jeff
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have to bite on this one... I disagree with your example and excuse. You're trying to use "<span style="font-style: italic">first round cold bore kill</span>" as your excuse, but then you follow it up with examples at 1500yds? And even though the reticle gets enlarged, so does the target along with it. The only way the target would get obstructed by the cross hairs is if it was smaller than the reticle on the lowest setting. So your example of a prairie dog at 500, even if I went to 15x on a FFP it would make no difference than at 5x since the crosshairs would be the same size in relation to the prairie dog on both settings. The same would apply to the coyote at 1500 which no offense, but if you could get a first round cold bore kill shot even 50% of your attempts at ranges of 1000+ then every shooting team around the world would be begging you to join them. Last, back to you need an "exact distance" but then you reference coyotes at 1500? I'll admit there are some impressive LRF out there like the Terrapin, but a coyote at 1500+? </div></div>
Well, all I can say is it sounds to me like you have never attempted to shoot a prairie dog at 500 yds. on 5X. (your example, but surely not the best suited method for this task of a fine point of aim) Also, I will guess you have not sighted on a coyote at 1500 yards or you would have understood why I prefer a thinner reticle (my personal choice) the same as most small varmint shooters for the same reason, and as do bench rest target shooters for the same reasons. I never claimed to be any sort of championship shooter. But I will say my success rate at shots of 1000 plus is decent. There are those here on the hide that I have had the pleasure to shoot beside that will attest to what I claim to do. I have taken elk, deer, antelope , and coyotes past 1000 yards on many occasions. I do insist on good conditions for this type of shot (on game) and my success rate of cold bore kills past 1000 yards is 100% on all game animals. All were one shot, first round kills. But yes I have missed several yotes past 1500. If you have shot very many coyotes you know that one shot is all you typically get unless you want to just send lead at a running dog. I did not state what I do, or prefer, to offend anyone. But it seems I pizzed in a few bowls of FFP Cheerios. I was simply offering a point of view from a shooter that does shoot 2000 yards plus. For the record my longest coyote kill is only 1236 yards. I did it prone out the slider from my bedroom. (I can and do shoot to well past 2500 from my front yard.) The yote was in wheat field stubble, I ranged him with my PLRF10 rested on sand bags, and killed him cold bore with a 300 Berger from my 338 LM. There are more than a few coyote bones in that field that are past 1000 yards from my bed room sliding door.
As for ranging a yote at 1500 plus, yes it can be done pretty easily if you rest a quality small beamed RF solidly on bags. I was ranging one at 1750 plus a few days ago but he would not stop moving and I never took the shot. I could not range them at these distances until I purchased the PLRF10. The 5 Swaros, 4 Leicas, the G7-Br2, the Zeiss nor the Newcon 3000 would do it with accuracy and consistency. If you have a yote in a golden, flat field of wheat stubble you can easily tell if you are indeed ranging the target.
I do not wish to argue. But rather would invite you to join us if you are ever in the area. Just for some friendly shooting where I will be glad to explain why I prefer what I do by letting you look through a scope so you can see what I see. I prefer not to cover my target point of aim with thick sub-tension lines. I never shoot at something, I choose to pick a small aim point on it. Again, this is why I prefer the SFP where the target does indeed grow in size as the power is increased and the reticle remains thin and does cover less target surface. This does allow me a larger appearing target and a finer point of aim.
Jeff
Re: Best scope for beyond 1500?
I tried March scopes and disliked them very much. The glass did not resolve well and provided a very dark image because of the undersized objective lens. The parallax adjustment knob was mediocre at best.
They looked great on paper but on the range it left lots to be desired.
In the end we elected to go with Kahles, we now run a K6-24i on our HTI and SRS rifles and a K3-12 on our coverts.
I tried March scopes and disliked them very much. The glass did not resolve well and provided a very dark image because of the undersized objective lens. The parallax adjustment knob was mediocre at best.
They looked great on paper but on the range it left lots to be desired.
In the end we elected to go with Kahles, we now run a K6-24i on our HTI and SRS rifles and a K3-12 on our coverts.
Re: Best scope for beyond 1500?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Well, all I can say is it sounds to me like you have never attempted to shoot a prairie dog at 500 yds. on 5X. (your example, but surely not the best suited method for this task of a fine point of aim) Also, I will guess you have not sighted on a coyote at 1500 yards or you would have understood why I prefer a thinner reticle (my personal choice) the same as most small varmint shooters for the same reason, and as do bench rest target shooters for the same reasons. I never claimed to be any sort of championship shooter. But I will say my success rate at shots of 1000 plus is decent. There are those here on the hide that I have had the pleasure to shoot beside that will attest to what I claim to do. I have taken elk, deer, antelope , and coyotes past 1000 yards on many occasions. I do insist on good conditions for this type of shot (on game) and my success rate of cold bore kills past 1000 yards is 100% on all game animals. All were one shot, first round kills. But yes I have missed several yotes past 1500. If you have shot very many coyotes you know that one shot is all you typically get unless you want to just send lead at a running dog. I did not state what I do, or prefer, to offend anyone. But it seems I pizzed in a few bowls of FFP Cheerios. I was simply offering a point of view from a shooter that does shoot 2000 yards plus. For the record my longest coyote kill is only 1236 yards. I did it prone out the slider from my bedroom. (I can and do shoot to well past 2500 from my front yard.) The yote was in wheat field stubble, I ranged him with my PLRF10 rested on sand bags, and killed him cold bore with a 300 Berger from my 338 LM. There are more than a few coyote bones in that field that are past 1000 yards from my bed room sliding door.
As for ranging a yote at 1500 plus, yes it can be done pretty easily if you rest a quality small beamed RF solidly on bags. I was ranging one at 1750 plus a few days ago but he would not stop moving and I never took the shot. I could not range them at these distances until I purchased the PLRF10. The 5 Swaros, 4 Leicas, the G7-Br2, the Zeiss nor the Newcon 3000 would do it with accuracy and consistency. If you have a yote in a golden, flat field of wheat stubble you can easily tell if you are indeed ranging the target.
I do not wish to argue. But rather would invite you to join us if you are ever in the area. Just for some friendly shooting where I will be glad to explain why I prefer what I do by letting you look through a scope so you can see what I see. I prefer not to cover my target point of aim with thick sub-tension lines. I never shoot at something, I choose to pick a small aim point on it. Again, this is why I prefer the SFP where the target does indeed grow in size as the power is increased and the reticle remains thin and does cover less target surface. This does allow me a larger appearing target and a finer point of aim.
Jeff
</div></div>
No prarie dogs up here unfortunately, but I rocked a fixed 10x for awhile and went out to 1000+ every chance I got. Hell, one time we were shooting at a 4" plate at 950. You're a better man then me because I'd hate to have to pack out meat 2000+yds round trip and I would never attempt a 1K+ shot on anything smaller than a deer. I currently use Bushnell's Fusion ARCs but ranging a target as small as a Coyote wouldn't work with them or even the Leicas I've had in the past at 1500. You and I are just of different opinions and different strokes. If I'm ever out that way though I'll take you up on the invite
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Well, all I can say is it sounds to me like you have never attempted to shoot a prairie dog at 500 yds. on 5X. (your example, but surely not the best suited method for this task of a fine point of aim) Also, I will guess you have not sighted on a coyote at 1500 yards or you would have understood why I prefer a thinner reticle (my personal choice) the same as most small varmint shooters for the same reason, and as do bench rest target shooters for the same reasons. I never claimed to be any sort of championship shooter. But I will say my success rate at shots of 1000 plus is decent. There are those here on the hide that I have had the pleasure to shoot beside that will attest to what I claim to do. I have taken elk, deer, antelope , and coyotes past 1000 yards on many occasions. I do insist on good conditions for this type of shot (on game) and my success rate of cold bore kills past 1000 yards is 100% on all game animals. All were one shot, first round kills. But yes I have missed several yotes past 1500. If you have shot very many coyotes you know that one shot is all you typically get unless you want to just send lead at a running dog. I did not state what I do, or prefer, to offend anyone. But it seems I pizzed in a few bowls of FFP Cheerios. I was simply offering a point of view from a shooter that does shoot 2000 yards plus. For the record my longest coyote kill is only 1236 yards. I did it prone out the slider from my bedroom. (I can and do shoot to well past 2500 from my front yard.) The yote was in wheat field stubble, I ranged him with my PLRF10 rested on sand bags, and killed him cold bore with a 300 Berger from my 338 LM. There are more than a few coyote bones in that field that are past 1000 yards from my bed room sliding door.
As for ranging a yote at 1500 plus, yes it can be done pretty easily if you rest a quality small beamed RF solidly on bags. I was ranging one at 1750 plus a few days ago but he would not stop moving and I never took the shot. I could not range them at these distances until I purchased the PLRF10. The 5 Swaros, 4 Leicas, the G7-Br2, the Zeiss nor the Newcon 3000 would do it with accuracy and consistency. If you have a yote in a golden, flat field of wheat stubble you can easily tell if you are indeed ranging the target.
I do not wish to argue. But rather would invite you to join us if you are ever in the area. Just for some friendly shooting where I will be glad to explain why I prefer what I do by letting you look through a scope so you can see what I see. I prefer not to cover my target point of aim with thick sub-tension lines. I never shoot at something, I choose to pick a small aim point on it. Again, this is why I prefer the SFP where the target does indeed grow in size as the power is increased and the reticle remains thin and does cover less target surface. This does allow me a larger appearing target and a finer point of aim.
Jeff
</div></div>
No prarie dogs up here unfortunately, but I rocked a fixed 10x for awhile and went out to 1000+ every chance I got. Hell, one time we were shooting at a 4" plate at 950. You're a better man then me because I'd hate to have to pack out meat 2000+yds round trip and I would never attempt a 1K+ shot on anything smaller than a deer. I currently use Bushnell's Fusion ARCs but ranging a target as small as a Coyote wouldn't work with them or even the Leicas I've had in the past at 1500. You and I are just of different opinions and different strokes. If I'm ever out that way though I'll take you up on the invite
Re: Best scope for beyond 1500?
I would think it is possible to solve the large subtension of a FFP, if they would create a tapered reticle. If they had a fairly steep taper like on the right crosshair, it would be easy to see when on low power, and still allow precise aiming at small targets on high power. I think if it started to taper at about 2moa from the center, it would be perfect. Do you guys know if anyone has ever tried a reticle like this? I know there have been open center scopes, and floating crosshairs, but I don't know of any that taper towards the center.![url]](http://[url="http://s1289.beta.photobucket.com/user/aroshtr/media/tapercrosshair_zps1feb638d.jpg.html"]http://s1289.beta.photobucket.com/user/aroshtr/media/tapercrosshair_zps1feb638d.jpg.html[/url])
I would think it is possible to solve the large subtension of a FFP, if they would create a tapered reticle. If they had a fairly steep taper like on the right crosshair, it would be easy to see when on low power, and still allow precise aiming at small targets on high power. I think if it started to taper at about 2moa from the center, it would be perfect. Do you guys know if anyone has ever tried a reticle like this? I know there have been open center scopes, and floating crosshairs, but I don't know of any that taper towards the center.
Re: Best scope for beyond 1500?
Get this:
http://www.valdada.com/scopes/tactical-s...ted-mp-8-xtreme
Get this:
http://www.valdada.com/scopes/tactical-s...ted-mp-8-xtreme
Wow, such passionate bickering. Like others, I found it informative and amusing at the same time. I was really ready for someone to call out the quote: "Jane, you ignorant slut".
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P
Pleistarchus
Guest
Overall #1 scope used by competition long range shooters is NightForce. #2 Bushnell ERS 3-21. I would ask about the new Bushy XRS 4.5-30 coming on the market on the 19th. Hearing really good things about it from well respected competition shooters. Chris
This. I have NF 12-42x56 with NPR-2 reticle on one of my rifles. I've wasted more than a few rounds adjusting my scope and holds based on observed impact and the reticle only to realize I was on an incorrect magnification. While it is true, that SFP helps with a finer point of aim compared to FFP at higher magnifications (what Broz is saying), it doesn't help with wind calls or adjustments. Since I have transitioned to FFP, my corrections and adjustments are much more consistent even though they're still wrong some/most of the time, haha.
However if you have Broz's setup then I can see how a SFP will get you there for elevation (just range it and dial), but I don't see how a SFP reticle on an unknown magnification (11x vs. 11.2x or 10.8x) and holding for wind will allow as precise shot placement as FFP. Obviously he's had success so it can be done, but I can't see it being easier than with a FFP optic. As with everything else, extensive training is key. I guess that's what you get when you have 2500yds available in your front yard! I am EXTREMELY jealous by the way.
Also I have had success using a SFP PST 2.5-10x44 on my AR15 out to 500yds. The unique thing about this scope is while the ranging power is 10x, at 5x and 3.3x there are small detents so when you ARE at 5x or 3.3x you feel a slight but noticeable "clunk". That feature has helped me greatly with ensuring correct wind holds. It would be nice if NF adopted something similar in their SFP scope line.
Nightforce
I have both. I was at the range on Friday, and used both. At 300 yards, with the magnification all the way up, the FFP reticle grew to the point that I could not see the 1.5" dot I was aiming at. The SFP, on the other hand had a nice fine reticle which I could use effectively to "split" the 1.5" bullseye. Thus, I conclude that at long distances, the finer reticle results of the SFP really show through. Really, though, it is all about personal preference, and enough people must like the FFP, because they keep making them.
Why don't we just get our DOPE and stop messing with adjustments?
My Preference:
18x at 1000y and below up to 300y
10x for precision 100-300y
22x at farther than 1100y
Changing the scope magnification back in forth will cause you to mind fuck yourself unless otherwise you have great memory. My memory sucks so I narrow down my options.
I only only use windage holdover at ELR when adjusting within the crosshair itself, holding over past the crosshair subtension then you have to question your scope if it was mounted perfectly level and if your rifle itself is horizontally levelled prior to pulling the trigger. Dialling windage is a shooters preference, one to its own. Adjusting at 1000y or at 2000y is up to the shooter. Some performs well some don't. ..
My Preference:
18x at 1000y and below up to 300y
10x for precision 100-300y
22x at farther than 1100y
Changing the scope magnification back in forth will cause you to mind fuck yourself unless otherwise you have great memory. My memory sucks so I narrow down my options.
I only only use windage holdover at ELR when adjusting within the crosshair itself, holding over past the crosshair subtension then you have to question your scope if it was mounted perfectly level and if your rifle itself is horizontally levelled prior to pulling the trigger. Dialling windage is a shooters preference, one to its own. Adjusting at 1000y or at 2000y is up to the shooter. Some performs well some don't. ..
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Nightforce Beast or Ziess Hensholdt both FFP 35 milrads, ill just wait until beast gets released in three months time and buy that, why cheap yourself on the scope when your spent $7,000 on your gun? Also look at the Sphur mounts there the best out on the market!!!! Happy shooting 
Wait a bit save some cash it's worth it!!!!
Wait a bit save some cash it's worth it!!!!
kahles 624i better glass clarity than most more expensive scopes
Wow... some very interesting post. All I know is my nightforce has been good to me (5.5x22 nxs). I honestly have never used an sb or us op. in the field. Sfp is what I learned on and works for ME. There are many ways to shoot out to 1500 and beyond successfully. There was a lot of good information posted and IMO most top of the line scopes will work it just comes down to personal preference. Good shooting to you all...
Wow, reading this is like a 1911 .45 vs whatever, people seem to invest there egos in there purchases. There are a lot of optics out there with really huge price tags on them, seems like the more you pay the more ego. I mean no disrespect to anyone here. Nightforce is a great optic so is SB, and somewhere out there, mounted on a rifle is a scope that is even better, but, in my own opinion, do the best with what you got, put em in the 10 ring at what you are comfortable with and try to have fun doing it.
Perhaps $$$ and branding is not so much the issue on determening what is a good scope for 1500y+
It's not just the scope, it's the base/rings and style of shooting combined. Do you need to be able to get a 100y POA, 300y even? If you do, you will be limited in how far out you will need to go. If you are using the rifle for a dedicated 600+ gun, then there are more options.
Main factor is what elevation you require and how much magnification you would like. Shooting PDs at 1500y is different to shooting 30" plates at 1500. Magnification is personal, elevation can be calculated.
I have a 375 SnipeTac, goal for this rifle is 2500-3000y, base on the rifle is 40moa... so what do I need to get there?
3000y needs roughly 125-130moa, 600y needs 10moa, that's a 120moa spread. Not many scopes can do that without holding off. I know the Leupy 16x Mk4 should be able to handle that, but 16x is not enough for my taste and the mil/moa combination is just wrong. My eye fell on the PH 5-25 a while back and I have that on the shelf, but it "only" has 96moa of elevation total, about 48 in each direction.
Scope -48/+48moa (good for 100-1700y)
The 40moa base on the L8000 puts that at -8/+88moa (100-2500y)
I added a 20moa mount to see where that would take me, on paper. Gives me +12/+108moa (700-2800y). For an extra 300y reach I would give up the 100-600y range, perhaps better to just keep it at 0moa and just hold off with the scope. There's 20moa of holdover left at 25x, so best of both worlds in this case.
It's not just the scope, it's the base/rings and style of shooting combined. Do you need to be able to get a 100y POA, 300y even? If you do, you will be limited in how far out you will need to go. If you are using the rifle for a dedicated 600+ gun, then there are more options.
Main factor is what elevation you require and how much magnification you would like. Shooting PDs at 1500y is different to shooting 30" plates at 1500. Magnification is personal, elevation can be calculated.
I have a 375 SnipeTac, goal for this rifle is 2500-3000y, base on the rifle is 40moa... so what do I need to get there?
3000y needs roughly 125-130moa, 600y needs 10moa, that's a 120moa spread. Not many scopes can do that without holding off. I know the Leupy 16x Mk4 should be able to handle that, but 16x is not enough for my taste and the mil/moa combination is just wrong. My eye fell on the PH 5-25 a while back and I have that on the shelf, but it "only" has 96moa of elevation total, about 48 in each direction.
Scope -48/+48moa (good for 100-1700y)
The 40moa base on the L8000 puts that at -8/+88moa (100-2500y)
I added a 20moa mount to see where that would take me, on paper. Gives me +12/+108moa (700-2800y). For an extra 300y reach I would give up the 100-600y range, perhaps better to just keep it at 0moa and just hold off with the scope. There's 20moa of holdover left at 25x, so best of both worlds in this case.
FFP reticles do not grow, they stay the same size relative to your target.
Just me but if I was getting a scope for ELR then I would look no farther than either a NXS 5.5-22 or the 8-32. I have both as well as FFP scopes. For ELR I like s NF reticle in SFP. You can be very precise with you POA. I have shot 1500 or so with my FFP (G2 Reticle) will good results but it never felt as fine as the NF. Went out today to collect dope on 5 different Custom rifles all with better glass on them and can tell you that when you put em all next to each other then the fine aiming point will spoil you.
Personally, my 2 favorite target scopes scopes out there right now is the DMR and better Bushys with G2's and a NXS 5.5x22.
I have shot the ACTR but not the beast, I'm very interested in it but I don't think they offer a MIL or MOA Christmas tree reticle. I know they have the Velocity type which I have also been thinking about trying out. I believe that if it all matches up it is your best hold reticle there is. Not as usefull with ranging but since I'm honest with myself I know I don't mil enough to let that matter. Not with my Terrapin around. I'm not comfortable with my milling skills anyway.
I have several NF's and they have always done great for me and as far as function I can't see better scopes.
I don't get off on the clarity, resolution, glass debates on them as none of them makes enough of a difference to me on that end of it. The tracking and toughness are the most important to me and NF does great.
I hope you find the scope you are looking for soon.
Personally, my 2 favorite target scopes scopes out there right now is the DMR and better Bushys with G2's and a NXS 5.5x22.
I have shot the ACTR but not the beast, I'm very interested in it but I don't think they offer a MIL or MOA Christmas tree reticle. I know they have the Velocity type which I have also been thinking about trying out. I believe that if it all matches up it is your best hold reticle there is. Not as usefull with ranging but since I'm honest with myself I know I don't mil enough to let that matter. Not with my Terrapin around. I'm not comfortable with my milling skills anyway.
I have several NF's and they have always done great for me and as far as function I can't see better scopes.
I don't get off on the clarity, resolution, glass debates on them as none of them makes enough of a difference to me on that end of it. The tracking and toughness are the most important to me and NF does great.
I hope you find the scope you are looking for soon.
We have been shooting a .408 out to 3500 yards using a NF ATACR with great success. Said distance requires good quality glass or Snell's Law will screw you up. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snell's_law
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