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I always use trailboss like most others. I have found that from 10-11.5 works depending on bullet weight. I beleive i was using 10.5 in a 20" remington aac with 175s and somewhere around 11 for 225 grain hornady hpbt's in my DTA with 1/8 twist. The 175s would always shoot sub moa at 100 and i could hit a 10 inch circle target at 400 every time. Hope that helps. I used lake city lr brass, 210 federal primers, and a coal of 2.815