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Former LEO gone crazy in SoCal

Re: Former LEO gone crazy in SoCal

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: waveone</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've read this thread in it's entirety and considered all the positions as rationally and objectively as I possibly can. Yet I still walk away with a very disconcerting feeling.

We are divided, at almost hopeless odds and extremely dysfunctional as a Nation, even as a community as 2A proponents. So much to the extent that we are a breath away from sliding back into the abyss of civil unrest.

A couple thoughts I can't get over are :

a. THis Dorner character is tragic individual and head- case that encapsulates our societal malaise to a disturbing "T"

b. No sane individual condones what he did- Period. So, regardless of his purported "justifiable" motivations, which there could be, he wrote his own ticket to hell.

c. Our society is SICK of being abused by the Just-US System which the now alarmingly militarized Boys in Blue blindly obey, willingly comply with and protect with near impunity- despite what they might claim otherwise.

The responses on this thread are emblematic of just how some LE types(used to be policemen) are indoctrinated by the system or the system itself in it's militarized form appeal to their predilections for control and dominance. The responses from certain clowns defending the actions of their "brothers" shooting innocent folks, referring to others on this thread as "sheep" or "savage" and "tin foil hatter" is proof of the level of their indoctrination and willing compliance. What is most disturbing is they either do not know it or won't admit it. Their training is about putting a "suspect" of which all are on the defensive. The boys on this thread got it down to an art.

c. On the other end of the spectrum we have the general pop cheering this head case on in killing other people. Totally jacked up and indefensible.

d. It is all about protecting the system, those in it and who serve it. Which is why the pathetic LA PD essentially admitted that they were committing most all of their resources to capturing their fellow miscreant.

e. We live in a society where it is "us" against "them". You have the system, those in it and those that serve it, then there is the rest of society- All by design.

Finally slapchop- you're tool without remedy. You and your fellow tool wes126 whom surprisingly hasn't showed his "ass" on this thread are exactly the types that shoot -up innocent old ladies ,lawyer -up and claim their own innocence. Then call to "burn that M-Fer out" and justify it because he "broke the law"....while breaking the law themselves.......

coloshooter is probably headed down the same path if he isn't careful despite what his sometimes shift partner claims otherwise.

Oh and um finally - before you "Law Enforcement" officers dispense with your smear campaign to discredit my points, think again. Although I do not draw a paycheck, I volunteer as Reserve Deputy Sheriff in a small County here in Texas, full of gang-bangers. I see it from both sides.
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I'm not here to smear you.... In fact I do have to say that your post is one of the better thought out and well written of the entire lot with few exeptions. If you really are a Reserve you have my respect because I would not deal with the BS and department politics without getting paid but you have to understand how I feel being attacked and lumped in with the minority of bad cops out there. You should know most of us are stand up guys trying to do right by people but sometimes bad things happen when you have milliseconds to respond to a percieved threat. Put most of these shooters, CCW holders, and general gun guys from this thread into a shoot no shoot situation where a guy pulls a cell phone out of his waist band in low light conditions and I'm sure the great majority would react the same way as the trained LEO's with few exceptions. Cops can't be superheros we don't have any faster reactions then any other humans and we can die unlike the comic book heros. Having to go to another funeral for a friend and fellow Officer is not something I'd like to have to do again but I'm sure I'll be attending several more in my career.

As a Reserve do you go arrest someone just because someone without perfoming some sort of investigation or do put the facts together before deciding what actions you will be taking? That is all I was asking here is to wait till the facts come out. I never defended anyone and never said the Officers were right EVER! We may soon find out there was more to it or find out it was a total fuck up. If it is found to be the latter the Officers will likely be terminated and won't be keeping their jobs contrary to popular belief. DA's around here like to charge cops too so if Cali is anywhere like liberal Colorado has become that might happen.

As a Reserve Deputy I'd expect better of you then to call me out as someone that would shoot up innocent old ladies just because I say not to rush to judge before more info is out there or calling some of the biggest cop bashers out telling them if its so bad get involved and change it. I have already stated the sheep comment was in a sarcastic tone as many on here go on as "mindless drones claiming all cops are dirty with info from the same media sources that claim hi-capacity magazines are bad. I mostly used to get a rise from the targeted posters much like things the great majority of other posters have said to me. If you also notice my reply to USMC02xx was a much more even tone because the man was not outright attacking me and actually came off as a reasonable person that seemed as if he actually willing to listen rather then to just call me a dirty pig. The rest of the guys here have been more hostile just kept wanting to point out more incidents to try to make all LEO's (including yourself as a Reserve) look bad just like the Dems here did to make those evil standard cap magazines look bad the last two days.

To say that the Police are militarized shows a total lack of experience as a Reserve and makes me question if it really is true but I'll continue to believe you because maybe your small agency is different then my large one.... I can not wear BDU's as a uniform option and have to wear class A and B uniforms because BDU's and baseball caps look too intimidating to the public. Historically the Police are usually out gunned and it takes incidents like the Hollywood Bank Robbery/Shoot out before the Police catch up to the bad guys were coming across. It took incidents like the one in Hollywood before patrol rifles and armored bearcats started showing up in Police forces. We still don't wear hard armor on every call because it looks scary even though there are criminals out there armed with weapons that can easily defeat my concealed soft armor. Right now my boss is changing the rules that we are guilty untill proven innocent because everyone they have wrongfully fired has gotten their jobs back after the 100% civilian civil service board and or the courts (also no cops there) over turned several terminations (just FYI all the ones who deserved it were still shit canned). The real problem is the people put in charge of the Police forces. They push stats, stats, stats, stats and more stats even though any real street cop knows stats are shit in this job. Officers then start trying to get those stats so they can get promoted and bad stops are made people are upset but the Chief is happy because so and so wrote 100 tickets and got 20 crack pipe arrests. Others like myself and ColoradoCop get to pretty much go nowhere with our jobs because we refuse to go treat the public like that and continue to answer calls and mess with the real criminals instead. Yet, because I wear a badge I'm instantly a bad guy to many posters on here.


I have to agree this thread has been very disconcerting with the people pretty much supporting the gunman and others that have no respect for any LEO. It would just be nice if there was a more respectful tone towards the LEO members of this site because like everyone else we're gun guys, pro 2nd amendment and if you ran into us at the range you'd probably never guess we are cops unless we told you. There is a us vs them attitude and it really goes both ways. I'd rather be on the same side as the rest of you fighting for our 2A rights as a collective group of shooters / gun owners in these uncertian times rather then arguing about who's is bigger.

As for buring him out on purpose.... I don't know. To be honest I have not even bothered to read about any of it since it happened so take this with a grain of salt. (This means I'm not defending anything as I don't know if they did it on purpose or not). IN MY EXPERIENCE gas cansisters burn hot and can start fires. We have had inidents in my city where tear gas canisers have started fires and they were not set on purpose. With a guy like Dorner who has shown he has no issues killing ANYONE you don't want to rush in and put out the fire as I'm sure he'd have killed the firemen too. So your option is to wait it out and see if he will come to you. Who knows though.... I wasn't there maybe there was some gas and a match around.
 
Re: Former LEO gone crazy in SoCal

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> would just be nice if there was a more respectful tone towards the LEO members of this site because like everyone else we're gun guys, pro 2nd amendment and if you ran into us at the range you'd probably never guess we are cops unless we told you. There is a us vs them attitude and it really goes both ways. I'd rather be on the same side as the rest of you fighting for our 2A rights as a collective group of shooters / gun owners in these uncertian times rather then arguing about who's is bigger.
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Unfortunately it is us vs them and mostly not because people want it this way but because LEOs make it this way. But i understand that some police officers are really good guys and suffer daily JUST because of it. But bear in mind i always talk about my country and i don't know how it is in yours perhaps its better but here locally i can say best case perhaps 20% are good guys and roughly the same are in one way or the other somehow damaged (lazy, evil, powertrip, you name it) with majority "just getting by" but generally this group enables the damaged group so i don't particularly like them.

But i think you will have soon the opportunity to show who's right about LEOs (though at that time these forum ping pong will be largely irrelevant and noone will give it a nanosecond of thought). I hope you're right and we (the evil cop bashers) are totally wrong...
 
Re: Former LEO gone crazy in SoCal

COLOSHOOTR, context, it has a purpose... and is everything in my response.

I am not smearing anyone in my comments , though I am making objective observations. The vast majority of my commentary was not directed toward you but I will do so now.

<span style="font-weight: bold">"innocent old ladies"- </span> to your point , perhaps there was some non-compliance to an order that compelled the "jumpy" cops to act- possibly. However, the vehicle not being same color, inhabited by two individuals(instead of a large black man) and the preponderance of bullet holes in the back of the truck give everyone pause. That in conjunction with the horrific and earned reputation of the LA PD in it's ponderous abuses does not bode well here. That was my point

"militarization of police"- again context-it has a purpose. Clearly not all- but Many- are, or are becoming militarized and with "federal" money(our tax dollars) . That money has strings known as compliance. While my Dept is small and certainly not militarized, many indeed are. No one can rationally dispute that given the military class weapons, munitions, equipment and even some training. That fact is indisputable which was and is my point.
I am fairly new to this and it is my limited perception that the BDU dress is for certain unit attachments. Regardless, they now exist and are growing in frequency and number.So is the "attitude"-which is also part of my assessment of departments and their militarization.

Again , my Dept is small because we are in a fairly small town/county, though it is growing rapidly. The gang bangers have moved in,so I've seen a difference in the last ten years, and it is disgusting.

<span style="font-weight: bold">LE/Cops/Police </span>in general - most are fine individuals who deeply care about their profession and the people, as opposed to the system. They take their Oath seriously and approach the task at hand professionally.
Yet there is an existing and growing contingent that does not in either case, and subjugates all "civilians"- they're actually citizens they come in contact with. They are seen as guilty until proven innocent and merely an inconvenience or impediment of the job to be dealt with.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Respect </span> there is much to be said about this , yet time and practicality prevent it here.

Bottom line- Respect is a two way street. Where I come from it is not "given", it is EARNED. A uniform or title does not automatically command respect, nor does a badge or weapon, except at the lowest visceral level. In fact the mere presence of these illicit some form of fear and mistrust among many, especially now. That just should not be.

You personally- I am not really judging you, whereas I am making an observation. Specifically in regard to your disposition which is reflected in your speech. It is, or seems automatically accusatory and defensive. Conversely, It also seems apologetic and one sided- toward the "blue "line" so to speak. That is and remains my point. Perhaps you are not cognizant of this which if true validates the points I raise.

On the other hand, being labeled "scum" or even the suggestion by folks that don't know you is just as sorry. In either event how we respond makes the difference and you seem to be a reasonable individual, unlike this clown slap chop.

Finally- you are correct in your suggestion of my being a bit "green" in terms of experience. Yet even that is a judgment that attempts to discredit. In point of fact, while I am green to the Dept, I am not to reality. I've seen a ton, experienced most of it and know what I see, hear and read.
Even at that putting on the uniform changes your perspective, yet it should never change our humanity. Though now it is more clear that it can and often does. I always try to deal as ruthlessly with my weaknesses as I do with evil. I see them as one in the same.

I do what I do volitionally. When it is clear I can no longer make an impact, that is when I will stop.
 
Re: Former LEO gone crazy in SoCal

Has this pic been posted yet??


WTF is wrong with the police over in Cali? This is a civilian truck? We were talking about this at Hardrock, but this picture makes it really sink in. Look how many holes are in the PAssenger side.. Now the shooters are on paid leave?

Shoot first and look later mentality is very scary.

All I know is I got to get one of those trucks. I dont see how both poeple in that truck only were only wounded. Looks like Bonny and Clydes car. Sheesh
 
Re: Former LEO gone crazy in SoCal

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sharac</div><div class="ubbcode-body">But bear in mind i always talk about my country and i don't know how it is in yours perhaps its better but here locally i can say best case perhaps 20% are good guys and roughly the same are in one way or the other somehow damaged (lazy, evil, powertrip, you name it)
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Cops here are MUCH MUCH MUCH more honest than over there believe me.
 
Re: Former LEO gone crazy in SoCal

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: beenjammin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
All I know is I got to get one of those trucks. I dont see how both poeple in that truck only were only wounded. Looks like Bonny and Clydes car. </div></div>

One was shot in the hand the other 3 times in the back. If it weren't for modern medicine I'd bet the lady who was shot in the back would have been dead at the scene.
 
Re: Former LEO gone crazy in SoCal

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: beenjammin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Has this pic been posted yet??


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[/quote]Sure the shooting of the truck does not look to be good at all. Maybe they fucked up and were quick on the trigger. [/qoute]

Quote of the century here
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Re: Former LEO gone crazy in SoCal

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: milo-2</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: beenjammin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Has this pic been posted yet??


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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sure the shooting of the truck does not look to be good at all. Maybe they fucked up and were quick on the trigger. </div></div>

Quote of the century here
wink.gif
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I can almost hear the depositions now ...

"Believing that the now-deceased ex-officer Dorner had managed to advance medical science four and a half centuries and separate his genetic material into two distinct body masses, who were armed with what we assumed to be IEDs disguised as newspapers, and in fear for our lives, we opened fire, discharging anywhere from 40 to 100 projectiles, managing to strike the two individuals four times in all."

And how about that hot gun-on-soccer-mom action that went on for hours out on Rt. 38, and undoubtedly in other places, too?

a9rf341.jpg


Was it just me, or did the Constitution get a mudhole stomped in it out there while they were clearing back seats full of groceries and toddlers in car seats?
 
Re: Former LEO gone crazy in SoCal

colo, you sound like an ok guy. and i understand you feel attacked so your thrashing back at people. its not that we (we meaning people that share my opinion) hate all police. its that we distrust all police. there are some i hate for sure, but the actions of some of those officers make me distrust all of you. then again, i don't really trust too many people in general.

Also, last point i have to make in this topic. Someone said, dont remember who, that maybe we should join and change it from the inside. The skeptic part of me might argue that people have, and found out soon waht dancing with the devil means. I dont talk about it much bu i also have LE type experience. Not an officer, but was very tied into training programs and higher end agencies. I walked away from that because i couldnt stand what i saw as a broken and corrupt system. there is no changing it.

I know some small town cops who i think are just great, stand up guys. Love em like brothers. But lapd isnt representative of those people.
 
Re: Former LEO gone crazy in SoCal

This thread either needs to become a "sticky", as how not to react to a fucked up situation by posting. Or die a slow painful death.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: usmc02xx</div><div class="ubbcode-body">colo, you sound like an ok guy. </div></div>

Not sure on this one?
A supervisor where I worked got fired years ago. His comment on it was "I'm going to have to suck a half mile of cock before I can even begin to start to regain my dignity."
Time will heal all wounds.
smile.gif
 
Re: Former LEO gone crazy in SoCal

I love police!!! I have met a few rotten eggs but by in large I enjoy almost all of them. I have tremendous respect for what they do and the patience they administer while doing it.

I see many at our rusty spoon restaurant and enjoy speaking with them all.

I could never do their job in a day cause I would shoot somebody.
I could never do their job because I would never come in on my day off for traffic court.
I could never do ther job because of rotating shifts, fucked up promotions to people that dont deserve it and overtime.

I got big love and even bigger respect for our LEO's
 
Re: Former LEO gone crazy in SoCal

in the body cuount analysis, Dorner won.
 
Re: Former LEO gone crazy in SoCal

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: maggot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">in the body cuount analysis, Dorner won. </div></div>

Where we all lost is in the ability to trust. An ex-cop went off the rails, and then a few more seem to have done so in dealing with their fear and anxiety.

In the face of what was broadcast on KCAL during the firefight and ignition of the cabin, and the following statement of denial by SBSD, are we just supposed to suspend our faculties and accept something that seems to be so clearly in conflict with what we've heard? And, if so, is that some sort of a real plan for one's future existence?

Frailties have been exposed, but simply patching them over only makes things worse in the long run. We shouldn't be lied to, we shouldn't be exposed to gunfire without more justification than someone's fear, and we shouldn't have our constitutional amendments shaved down like dice in a rigged game in which we can't even break even.
 
Re: Former LEO gone crazy in SoCal

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: milo-2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This thread either needs to become a "sticky", as how not to react to a fucked up situation by posting. Or die a slow painful death.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: usmc02xx</div><div class="ubbcode-body">colo, you sound like an ok guy. </div></div>

Not sure on this one?
A supervisor where I worked got fired years ago. His comment on it was "I'm going to have to suck a half mile of cock before I can even begin to start to regain my dignity."
Time will heal all wounds.
smile.gif
</div></div>

milo, maybe im really tired but i have no idea what your saying. I see my comment quotes but im not sure what your getting to. Not trying to come off as a dick, but i seriously am not getting your point or how you came to it. Can you give me some context?
 
Re: Former LEO gone crazy in SoCal

Usmc,
My comment on the quote was kinda directed at the Colorado boys for their part in the discussion, just qouted a little of what you wrote.
Nothing directed at you, I actually liked your input.
Hope there's no hard feelings, from you or the Colo guys.
Because they shined toward the end here, they were by no means the biggest idiots in the thread.
 
Re: Former LEO gone crazy in SoCal

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Veer_G ®</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: maggot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">in the body cuount analysis, Dorner won. </div></div>

Where we all lost is in the ability to trust. An ex-cop went off the rails, and then a few more seem to have done so in dealing with their fear and anxiety.

In the face of what was broadcast on KCAL during the firefight and ignition of the cabin, and the following statement of denial by SBSD, are we just supposed to suspend our faculties and accept something that seems to be so clearly in conflict with what we've heard? And, if so, is that some sort of a real plan for one's future existence?

Frailties have been exposed, but simply patching them over only makes things worse in the long run. We shouldn't be lied to, we shouldn't be exposed to gunfire without more justification than someone's fear, and we shouldn't have our constitutional amendments shaved down like dice in a rigged game in which we can't even break even. </div></div>

An excellent post.
 
Re: Former LEO gone crazy in SoCal

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Veer_G ®</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Where we all lost is in the ability to trust. </div></div>

Exactly!

Now, the substantial task of rebuilding the trust lies with the "good cops". Are they willing to step up to the task, or will they complain about the unfairness of the situation? Time will tell.
 
Re: Former LEO gone crazy in SoCal

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: E. Bryant</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Veer_G ®</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Where we all lost is in the ability to trust. </div></div>

Exactly!

Now, the substantial task of rebuilding the trust lies with the "good cops". Are they willing to step up to the task, or will they complain about the unfairness of the situation? Time will tell. </div></div>

I think that's an unfair assessment. Ultimately, the quality of the police force is the function of the quality of civilian oversight. We as citizens should be as organized in voicing our unhappiness with the quality of LEOs in ways that will effect positive change as we are willing to complain about it in forums or other casual situations. Failing that, the reality is there are more failed cops than good ones and the good ones are probably busy carrying the workload of the failed.

With that said, it serves little purpose if there is not a willingness of the good ones to partner with civilians in making and demanding positive changes. The advice 'just vote' is neither useful or sincere.
 
Re: Former LEO gone crazy in SoCal

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EventHorizon</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: E. Bryant</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Veer_G ®</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Where we all lost is in the ability to trust. </div></div>

Exactly!

Now, the substantial task of rebuilding the trust lies with the "good cops". Are they willing to step up to the task, or will they complain about the unfairness of the situation? Time will tell. </div></div>

I think that's an unfair assessment. Ultimately, the quality of the police force is the function of the quality of civilian oversight. We as citizens should be as organized in voicing our unhappiness with the quality of LEOs in ways that will effect positive change as we are willing to complain about it in forums or other casual situations. Failing that, the reality is there are more failed cops than good ones and the good ones are probably busy carrying the workload of the failed.

With that said, it serves little purpose if there is not a willingness of the good ones to partner with civilians in making and demanding positive changes. <span style="font-weight: bold">The advice 'just vote' is neither useful or sincere.</span> </div></div>


This is a FACT. The sad reality is that ship has sailed. The Police, or "LAW Enforcement"(notice the connotation) is for The System- period. All components are in place and the infrastructure for that culture change has been implemented. Without a complete, concerted effort of non- compliance and nullification by the field level "officers" and the public in conjunction with voting the miscreants out of office, it will not happen. Essentially there is little chance of this happening IMO.

We'll use this jackass slapchop as the example because he fits the bill to a "T". Everyone is beneath him, everyone is a suspect, perp or simply not one of his side. The "us vs them" mentality personified. One of the reasons he has cooled his jets is because he has no stroke here. It is a level playing field and he can't handle that. IF we were in his AO/jurisdiction half of this board would have been cuffed and stuffed or harassed at least.

The Colorado boys- both seem to be good reasonable guys. Yet the fact remains neither will admit that the pussies over in the LA PD(yes I said it) crossed the line at all. Colocop- I think- stated clearly even in the "prima facie" in addition to the after action reports regarding the shooting of two old women ,a very liberal benefit of the doubt is extended to the perpetrating officers. The rub and therefore the hypocrisy to that is this:

That same "benefit" would never be extended to the general populace- ever. They would be arrested, charged and given the "right" to defend their presumed guilty position in court. Simple as that.

Furthermore, one or both of the Colorado boys refuse to take any position on what appears to be a blatant homicide by the LA PD -which was out of their jurisdiction IF I understand it correctly , and who intentionally burned the suspect alive. Then the idiot Sheriff has the audacity to claim it wasn't intentional.

SOP is Exactly what they did in that scenario. In fact several officers on this thread admitted that I believe. When you have a cop killer or substantial threat holed-up, they burn them out. In fact, the LA PD so disregards the rule of law they didn't even try to cloak their intentions. In several transmissions the intent to burn that M-Fer out is clearly heard.

The System has done it's job well, continues to circle the wagons and wage essential war on the masses - all with our tax dollars. That includes the useful idiots like slap chop who thinks he is on the winning side. The truth is he is just a trained monkey that would be gladly sacrificed on the system altar for his master's benefit.

To exclamate this point one of the Colorado boys stated that the officers on his force are considered guilty until proven innocent by his DA. What he may or may not realize is this little tactic places downward pressure on he and his Dept to exert the same pressure on the gen pop- whether they know it or not.

Ultimately this reality brings me no pleasure to disclose. Yet, I know what I see , hear, read and experience- from both sides. Beside that I am not completely in the matrix and have the opportunity to serve under a Dept Head that is elected, could give a damn what the Feds try to force(which is his Constitutional/Lawful Right) and do so on a voluntary basis. In other words, my motivations are very different from those of others. I do what I do because I do not like what I see, and want to make a difference.
 
Re: Former LEO gone crazy in SoCal

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Veer_G ®</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In the face of what was broadcast on KCAL during the firefight and ignition of the cabin, and the following statement of denial by SBSD, are we just supposed to suspend our faculties and accept something that seems to be so clearly in conflict with what we've heard? And, if so, is that some sort of a real plan for one's future existence?</div></div>
I for one would like to see the intent and the letter applied to those who made the call to burn him out. They are no better than allegedly, he was. Neither the letter nor intent, was followed.
I now conceder the LAPD and that S/O no better than any other gang, and to the person that used that kind of language over the air, tells the mind set of those there. When want-a-bees are afraid it shows very quickly under pressure, as professionalism was out the window for all to see. Money and power corrupt, and when not held accountable only picks up speed, until bitch slapped.
Dressing like, acting like, is much different than having to be one. They acted out and showed the world just what they really are.

On a scale of 1-10, I'd give them a (2) for the gun fight, a (0) for professionalism, but a big (10) for showing the world their true "Colors".
BTW the asshole with the belt fed, needs to learn how to shoot the weapon.
Then again I may need time on a couch, based upon what I see as the "Norm" anymore.
Heard long ago if "Strange happens enough" "it becomes normal" and sheep will except that as the new normal.

Is what happen there the new normal,... bet your ass if you allow it!
 
Re: Former LEO gone crazy in SoCal

I think some of the criticism of the actions of the police specifically in the final shootout is rather unfair.

While there is obviously a serious need for the citizens to have a heart searching discussion on how the citizens have let it come to a state where the ones hired by the population to represent or protect them are now looked upon by many of that same population as the oppressors, it is however a 2 way street.

People should also ask themselves what would they do in the same situation? It's all good and fine to say what the police should and shouldn't do, but first be a bit realistic about what you would do yourself. Would you be willing to risk your death, your friends death, the death of one of your children, or for that matter any other person on your team in order to give a killer (who said they would never be taken alive), a chance to decide if they wanted to surrender or kill you instead?

Let's assume that it was back to the older days in this country of the local citizens protecting their town when needed in support of the elected person in charge of enforcing the laws the people voted for.

If someone was say upset at the way the local bank was run or the way the local sheriff did things, and posted a notice on the door of the local town hall with his rambling complaint and a vow to kill everyone they felt remotely associated with those he had a beef with, vowing to never be taken alive, never surrender and keep on killing till he was stopped. Would you take that as a serious threat needing to be dealt with quickly?

Then if that same person followed up on their word by starting to kill people who had pretty much nothing to do directly with their beef, would you just sit around and wait while they picked off more of your friends / neighbours / children / random townspeople? Or would you say it's them or us and the threat has to be ended now?

If you were then on the hunt for this someone who was killing people in your town, was well armed, had stated they would never be taken alive, clearly had no intention of surrender, and they made their stand in a wood building, alone away from most people.

Then when you and your group of fellow citizens approached, it's pretty much a guarantee that a shootout would start. Then if during the shootout that person was taking down some of your fellow citizens who were with you, wouldn't you think setting fire to the structure was a good idea? Wouldn't you do whatever it took to put and end to the threat for good?

Now if it was still a country where people had a spine and a backbone, then sure the police should come out and simply say that he was not going to surrender, he said nothing but death would stop him, he had killed some of us and at least 1 civilian, and so we killed him as quickly as we could figure out how to, so no more of us would get killed. However the too many people, even more so in California, to quote a movie line "You can't handle the truth".

Making no statement positive or negative regarding the broader issues and character of departments in California, it is very clear that:
This guy's actions were not those of some hero or freedom fighter
This guy was a killer of innocent people
This guy had no reasonable righteous reason to kill those he did
This guy made it clear he had no plans to stop or surrender
 
Re: Former LEO gone crazy in SoCal

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This guy's actions were not those of some hero or freedom fighter
This guy was a killer of innocent people
This guy had no reasonable righteous reason to kill those he did
This guy made it clear he had no plans to stop or surrender</div></div>


Are you the baseline upon which the actions of men are judged hence your claim about his actions?
That is for the court to decide not you.
Whether or not he has had reason is irrelevant, one (by law and constitution) cannot judge others there be institutions for judging.
True i guess however since when did LEOs become lynch mobs or judges to decide who lives and who doesnt.

Because all those points listed are arbitrary and dependent on ones perspective and mind aka subjective you/modern world has some basic rules to handle such situations (such as law, judges, jury etc).

But hey i don't know whats this fuss all about, fuck principles and foundations of society if LAPD can decide whom to kill (or not) why bother with legislation about drones and targeting american citizens? Hell since we're already throwing evertything on the fireplace lets simply forget about rules and everyone should start just simply doing whatever ones thinks is right? That sure will work well at least it did throughout history right?

<span style="font-weight: bold">You either respect basic laws or you don't there is no middle road, no shortcut no ifs no buts you either fully support them (even when it hurts) or you're on the road to "hell".</span>
 
Re: Former LEO gone crazy in SoCal

EDIT: this response is aimed at W54

Point well made. However, what am I supposed to make of the 3 innocent Citizens that were shot by the LAPD?

I don't agree with what Dorner did. I give u that. But when drones are flying over head on Sovereign US Soil, our sworn-to-protect police officers are shooting up grandmas, and our police officers are now burning down buildings on barricaded suspects, should we not be worried, or even a little alarmed? Disturbed even?

SHARAC: Agreed. Well spoken sir, better than I ever could've.
 
Re: Former LEO gone crazy in SoCal

Could I add just one little wrinkle to this? What if Dorner wasn't the one who wrote the manifesto? Is it entirely possible is this day of cyber ridiculousness that someone else could write something like that and post it under another person's Facebook? The LAPD based all of their actions on the manifesto and the threats by Dorner. They assumed he wouldn't be taken alive according to the manifesto. After the intial 3 murders, Dorner didn't fire upon another officer until the last seige. Doesn't sound like he followed his manifesto very well. What type of cold-blooded killer releases a manifesto BEFORE waging war on an organization like the LE community? Wouldn't that be something that would be found after he took out several cops? I'm not a killer or anything, I would just think if you were planning "aysmetrical warfare" on LEO, perhaps you wouldn't give them the heads up before you start. Just asking a few reasonable questions......
 
Re: Former LEO gone crazy in SoCal

he was a nut.
why should be analyze or care WHY?

a properly placed .556 caliber pill will solve most of lifes problems, and if it doesnt, try a .762 pill.
 
Re: Former LEO gone crazy in SoCal

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: waveone</div><div class="ubbcode-body">COLOSHOOTR, context, it has a purpose... and is everything in my response.

I am not smearing anyone in my comments , though I am making objective observations. The vast majority of my commentary was not directed toward you but I will do so now.

<span style="font-weight: bold">"innocent old ladies"- </span> to your point , perhaps there was some non-compliance to an order that compelled the "jumpy" cops to act- possibly. However, the vehicle not being same color, inhabited by two individuals(instead of a large black man) and the preponderance of bullet holes in the back of the truck give everyone pause. That in conjunction with the horrific and earned reputation of the LA PD in it's ponderous abuses does not bode well here. That was my point

"militarization of police"- again context-it has a purpose. Clearly not all- but Many- are, or are becoming militarized and with "federal" money(our tax dollars) . That money has strings known as compliance. While my Dept is small and certainly not militarized, many indeed are. No one can rationally dispute that given the military class weapons, munitions, equipment and even some training. That fact is indisputable which was and is my point.
I am fairly new to this and it is my limited perception that the BDU dress is for certain unit attachments. Regardless, they now exist and are growing in frequency and number.So is the "attitude"-which is also part of my assessment of departments and their militarization.

Again , my Dept is small because we are in a fairly small town/county, though it is growing rapidly. The gang bangers have moved in,so I've seen a difference in the last ten years, and it is disgusting.

<span style="font-weight: bold">LE/Cops/Police </span>in general - most are fine individuals who deeply care about their profession and the people, as opposed to the system. They take their Oath seriously and approach the task at hand professionally.
Yet there is an existing and growing contingent that does not in either case, and subjugates all "civilians"- they're actually citizens they come in contact with. They are seen as guilty until proven innocent and merely an inconvenience or impediment of the job to be dealt with.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Respect </span> there is much to be said about this , yet time and practicality prevent it here.

Bottom line- Respect is a two way street. Where I come from it is not "given", it is EARNED. A uniform or title does not automatically command respect, nor does a badge or weapon, except at the lowest visceral level. In fact the mere presence of these illicit some form of fear and mistrust among many, especially now. That just should not be.

You personally- I am not really judging you, whereas I am making an observation. Specifically in regard to your disposition which is reflected in your speech. It is, or seems automatically accusatory and defensive. Conversely, It also seems apologetic and one sided- toward the "blue "line" so to speak. That is and remains my point. Perhaps you are not cognizant of this which if true validates the points I raise.

On the other hand, being labeled "scum" or even the suggestion by folks that don't know you is just as sorry. In either event how we respond makes the difference and you seem to be a reasonable individual, unlike this clown slap chop.

Finally- you are correct in your suggestion of my being a bit "green" in terms of experience. Yet even that is a judgment that attempts to discredit. In point of fact, while I am green to the Dept, I am not to reality. I've seen a ton, experienced most of it and know what I see, hear and read.
Even at that putting on the uniform changes your perspective, yet it should never change our humanity. Though now it is more clear that it can and often does. I always try to deal as ruthlessly with my weaknesses as I do with evil. I see them as one in the same.

I do what I do volitionally. When it is clear I can no longer make an impact, that is when I will stop. </div></div>

Waveone, extremely well put.
To you to COLO-boys, I never met you. you sound like you might be okay after-all from your later posts. Earlier, you were covering for each other, just like many do.
I also belong to a group of people by occupation who because of a few are thought to be disgusting and dirty. We, the majority, have to work very hard to dispel that notion. You did not start out well in your protestations, but rather came across as more of the same. Face it, much more news is about the bad than the good. When you cover for the bad, even a little, you become part of it. I never applauded Dorner for his actions. I also never accused you of anything. I only said you sounded very much like the Scumbags in the PA State Police who arrested me for a crime that was never committed.
That said, I deal very regularly with State Troopers all over the country. Most of them are nice and respectable. A few are not. You COLO-boys sounded from some of your early posts like you were covering for your "brothers in blue," like many of the shit-cops do. Maybe you are stand-up guys. I never met you. I just called you out for your comments about the LAPD etc, which I felt were not supportable.
 
Re: Former LEO gone crazy in SoCal

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Veer_G ®</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: maggot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">in the body cuount analysis, Dorner won. </div></div>

Where we all lost is in the ability to trust. An ex-cop went off the rails, and then a few more seem to have done so in dealing with their fear and anxiety.

In the face of what was broadcast on KCAL during the firefight and ignition of the cabin, and the following statement of denial by SBSD, are we just supposed to suspend our faculties and accept something that seems to be so clearly in conflict with what we've heard? And, if so, is that some sort of a real plan for one's future existence?

Frailties have been exposed, but simply patching them over only makes things worse in the long run. We shouldn't be lied to, we shouldn't be exposed to gunfire without more justification than someone's fear, and we shouldn't have our constitutional amendments shaved down like dice in a rigged game in which we can't even break even.</div></div>

This has always been the unwritten street rule, always will be.
You at least are not "naive" anymore, as many it seems have joined you.
 
Re: Former LEO gone crazy in SoCal

The message sent about this street rule will get cops killed unfortunately. The message is that its better to shoot it out and take your chances because they will come to kill you anyway. Fkd up out there in lala land.Where are all the good reporters we used to have that would dig through these things.


This has always been the unwritten street rule, always will be.
You at least are not "naive" anymore, as many it seems have joined you.
[/quote]
 
Re: Former LEO gone crazy in SoCal

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: W54/XM-388</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think some of the criticism of the actions of the police specifically in the final shootout is rather unfair.

While there is obviously a serious need for the citizens to have a heart searching discussion on how the citizens have let it come to a state where the ones hired by the population to represent or protect them are now looked upon by many of that same population as the oppressors, it is however a 2 way street.

People should also ask themselves what would they do in the same situation? It's all good and fine to say what the police should and shouldn't do, but first be a bit realistic about what you would do yourself. Would you be willing to risk your death, your friends death, the death of one of your children, or for that matter any other person on your team in order to give a killer (who said they would never be taken alive), a chance to decide if they wanted to surrender or kill you instead?

Let's assume that it was back to the older days in this country of the local citizens protecting their town when needed in support of the elected person in charge of enforcing the laws the people voted for.

If someone was say upset at the way the local bank was run or the way the local sheriff did things, and posted a notice on the door of the local town hall with his rambling complaint and a vow to kill everyone they felt remotely associated with those he had a beef with, vowing to never be taken alive, never surrender and keep on killing till he was stopped. Would you take that as a serious threat needing to be dealt with quickly?

Then if that same person followed up on their word by starting to kill people who had pretty much nothing to do directly with their beef, would you just sit around and wait while they picked off more of your friends / neighbours / children / random townspeople? Or would you say it's them or us and the threat has to be ended now?

If you were then on the hunt for this someone who was killing people in your town, was well armed, had stated they would never be taken alive, clearly had no intention of surrender, and they made their stand in a wood building, alone away from most people.

Then when you and your group of fellow citizens approached, it's pretty much a guarantee that a shootout would start. Then if during the shootout that person was taking down some of your fellow citizens who were with you, wouldn't you think setting fire to the structure was a good idea? Wouldn't you do whatever it took to put and end to the threat for good?

Now if it was still a country where people had a spine and a backbone, then sure the police should come out and simply say that he was not going to surrender, he said nothing but death would stop him, he had killed some of us and at least 1 civilian, and so we killed him as quickly as we could figure out how to, so no more of us would get killed. However the too many people, even more so in California, to quote a movie line "You can't handle the truth".

Making no statement positive or negative regarding the broader issues and character of departments in California, it is very clear that:
This guy's actions were not those of some hero or freedom fighter
This guy was a killer of innocent people
This guy had no reasonable righteous reason to kill those he did
This guy made it clear he had no plans to stop or surrender
</div></div>

If this weren't 2013 and we as a Nation weren't in the state we find ourselves in, I would say I don't believe what I am reading, but I digress....

Clearly you think they are "unfair" because you, like the Colorado boys and the worthless idiot slapchop wholly embrace the "us vs them" mentality your masters have indoctrinated into you and with which you all so willingly comply.

Your assumptions that you wish to template this issue with are not only rash, they are shallow, excusing and completely wrong. Personally, I cannot stand injustice, preferential treatment nor complicity where the Law and justice are supposedly to be the rule, not the exception or according to the situation. You ,my deluded friend are doing just that So are the others I named.

First this is not the "old days", rather this is 2013 which means the modern police forces are equipped with state of the art components of engagement and surveillance. Therefore the LA PD are not, nor were relegated to charging the cabin.

Second- Casualties are part of the job that we sign up for. We are supposed to be smarter and more resourceful than the criminal and thus use every ounce of resource to our advantage to overcome the situation at hand. That did not happen, or at least all was not exhausted from what I can tell.

Third- and Most Importantly we Swear to Uphold the Law, not break it on whim or for expediency. Which is Exactly what happened there.

There are one hell of a lot of questions that have yet to be answered by the so called authorities known as the LA PD. There were rash assumptions made, protocols that appear to have been broken along with several Laws, including homicide, negligent or otherwise. That is what makes the difference here and your excuses for that lawless behavior only exacerbate the issues. All of which further the divide we find ourselves facing.

No one here( I think) certainly not I are taking Dorner's side. As I stated he wrote his own ticket to hell. However unless things change he is going to have a lot of company in blue uniforms when the Final Judgment is made by the Just Judge.

Something about this entire thing stinks frankly. I am talking about the things that the media has reported as conveyed by LEO Agencies regarding the manifesto, the finding of two different drivers licenses in very different locales etc. That says nothing the on air transmissions of "burn the M-Fer out". Nor the ham- fisted comments by the Sherriff stating they "didn't intend to burn the cabin down". I wonder of the LE Agencies really believe many of the general pop are as stupid as some of their buffoonish efforts indicate? Or is it that they simply don't care because they are in the matrix and they have the badges and guns?

What I find most telling in this entire discussion is the absence of hard questions and righteous participation from the other LEO's. The only thing I read to this point is accusations by them toward civilians asking the hard questions in order to place them on the defensive, which is true to form and according to training. Then I see their excuses for the blatant disregard for the rule of law or situational ethics committed by their "brothers".

Finally no one is ever going to know the whole of this story because it will be swept under the rug. The LA PD will spin this to their advantage through the media and the short term memory of the gen pop will take over. The two ladies will perhaps make a full recovery and the "milk cow" citizenry will pay for the negligence of the LA PD in settlement form to them and hopefully replace the real property destroyed by LA PD in pursuit of a vendetta and expediency to the cabin's owner.

It's good to be the king..........


 
Re: Former LEO gone crazy in SoCal

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dang472</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Could I add just one little wrinkle to this? What if Dorner wasn't the one who wrote the manifesto? Is it entirely possible is this day of cyber ridiculousness that someone else could write something like that and post it under another person's Facebook? The LAPD based all of their actions on the manifesto and the threats by Dorner. They assumed he wouldn't be taken alive according to the manifesto. After the intial 3 murders, Dorner didn't fire upon another officer until the last seige. Doesn't sound like he followed his manifesto very well. What type of cold-blooded killer releases a manifesto BEFORE waging war on an organization like the LE community? Wouldn't that be something that would be found after he took out several cops? I'm not a killer or anything, I would just think if you were planning "aysmetrical warfare" on LEO, perhaps you wouldn't give them the heads up before you start. Just asking a few reasonable questions......</div></div>

That is certainly a possibility. I haven't followed the "reports" very closely, but I haven't heard of any damning evidence that he murdered the Attorney's daughter and fiancé. Everything hangs on the manifesto. Sure he shot at police officers, but if you saw similar reports about yourself in spite of your innocence, would you act much differently?
 
Re: Former LEO gone crazy in SoCal

While I have no doubt that the interested parties are hoping that everything would just tie itself up in a neat package, not everyone is willing to forgive the excesses and forget:

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2013/02/protesters-show-support-for-christopher-dorner.html

Local attitudes over the "burner" controversy could be said to range from thankful to unrepentant:

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-dorner-fire-20130215,0,5831477.story?track=lanowpicks
 
Re: Former LEO gone crazy in SoCal

I believe Dorner wrote the manifesto and failed at waging war on the LAPD. My point is....what if he didn't write it? I obviously don't know the timeline perfectly, but supposedly he killed 3 people then went on the run. Dorner was labeled a Domestic Terrorist based on a FACEBOOK post. Let that sink in. Dorner went from a murder suspect to "bring in the fucking Drones, shoot at any pickup truck, burn him alive Terrorist" based on a post on Facebook. Besides the manifesto, none of his actions leading up to the final few hours showed an attempt to kill LEO.

I know what crazy, vindictive people are capable of. My mother-in-law is bat shit crazy. My wife is a grade school teacher. Her mother actually threatened to call the principal as a "concerned parent" and claim my wife touched kids inappropriately. Luckily the threat was in writing and we got ahead of it. No doubt my wife would have lost her job. Most of the time, accusations are enough to destroy people. This is also why I refuse to drive the teenage babysitter home by myself. It's pretty sad when you have to think like that anymore, but all it takes is an attention-seeking girl and an accusation. Who are they going to believe?
 
Re: Former LEO gone crazy in SoCal

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ArmyJerry</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The message sent about this street rule will get cops killed unfortunately. </div></div>

I don't know about that but I am worried that the "wrong sorts" (ie gangbangers whatever) have been watching LE screw up and are now thinking that they can pull off who knows what sorts of crimes and get away with it.
 
Re: Former LEO gone crazy in SoCal

By no means am I saying that Dorner is innocent of the accused crimes. He more than likely is as guilty as we've been led to believe, but the danger is that this could set a social precedent for future events. This judge/jury/executioner bullshit is getting out of control! We've seen the precursors with Anthony, Zimmerman, and Dorner. It gets worse and worse one headline at a time.

Even though it is most unlikely, it is not extremely far-fetched to say that Dorner could have been set up. There is no clear evidence to say he was, but there is no clear evidence to the contrary either. That's what our judicial system is for. The extreme lack of certainty involved in this matter does not forecast a bright future.
 
Re: Former LEO gone crazy in SoCal

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">he was a nut.
why should be analyze or care WHY?

a properly placed .556 caliber pill will solve most of lifes problems, and if it doesnt, try a .762 pill.</div></div>

OMG is this is for real i just hope you represent a very minor part of populace of US. You sir are a danger to your country with mentality like that. I would suggest you follow your own proposed solutions otherwise try to reread what you've just written...
 
Re: Former LEO gone crazy in SoCal

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sharac</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">he was a nut.
why should be analyze or care WHY?

a properly placed .556 caliber pill will solve most of lifes problems, and if it doesnt, try a .762 pill.</div></div>

OMG is this is for real i just hope you represent a very minor part of populace of US. You sir are a danger to your country with mentality like that. I would suggest you follow your own proposed solutions otherwise try to reread what you've just written... </div></div>

Yep, another person that can't think for their-self. On a side note, of the two type of lawyers in front of the judge and jury, one will praise him.
Sense we have lowered all standards across the broad, a 50% approval is now,... gold.

Wonder if we wage "war" on the ability to think for ones self, if we could get that std down to 25%?
Seems to have worked nicely for Drugs, Poverty, Immigration, and Hunger?
Douglas M. was right, the most dangerous person is one who can't think out of the box or for their selfs and are always following,... the newest piper.
 
Re: Former LEO gone crazy in SoCal

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: waveone</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> First this is not the "old days", rather this is 2013 which means the modern police forces are equipped with state of the art components of engagement and surveillance. Therefore the LA PD are not, nor were relegated to charging the cabin. </div></div>

True but what would you expect them to do?
What would you specifically have done tactics wise to stop the threat for good (assuming that letting him escape to do more stuff again was not an option), and protect the lives of those under your command?
Assuming one of your men was killed and another gravely wounded, when would you decide to do whatever it takes to end it?
If your demands to surrender were met with gunfire, then what would you do?

Since you are in Texas, I assume that you are probably aware that in most of Texas, there is still a pretty old fashioned view of law and crime & you'll rarely find much sympathy on a jury here for people that take up guns or violence (especially against the police) without a clear righteous reason. You would probably also be aware that for the most part the law enforcement agencies here in Texas don't take it too kindly when someone threatens them with violence or weapons.

For example:

Grapevine Police stabbing suspect shot

This happened right across the street from where I work and for several days there was helicopters searching overhead, police vehicles everywhere, dogs etc.
 
Re: Former LEO gone crazy in SoCal

waveone writes,
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
We'll use this jackass slapchop as the example because he fits the bill to a "T". Everyone is beneath him, everyone is a suspect, perp or simply not one of his side. The "us vs them" mentality personified. One of the reasons he has cooled his jets is because he has no stroke here. It is a level playing field and he can't handle that. IF we were in his AO/jurisdiction half of this board would have been cuffed and stuffed or harassed at least.</div></div>

Assume much do we? Seems like you have a new found fascination with me. Another fan, I see. I didn't realize that my jets were running hot, the reason I haven't been around is cause I don't always have time to play on the internet. You, like several on here either must have a tough time comprehending what you read or you just jump on the nearest bandwagon without having any understanding of what you're saying or doing. You accuse me of being the type that would shoot innocent old ladies and you do this without knowing a thing about me. You call me a tool and jackass, why? Because I stated that what the LAPD did in shooting up that truck was wrong? Because I don't buy into the BS conspiracy theories? Seems to me like you're one of these guys that has a need to fit in and do what the crowd does. Try thinking for yourself and actually READING what is written.

waveone writes,
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The Colorado boys- both seem to be good reasonable guys. Yet the fact remains neither will admit that the pussies over in the LA PD(yes I said it) crossed the line at all. Colocop- I think- stated clearly even in the "prima facie" in addition to the after action reports regarding the shooting of two old women ,a very liberal benefit of the doubt is extended to the perpetrating officers.</div></div>

The more I read what you write, the more I'm starting to have an idea of what you're really about. You have the audacity to call two LAPD cops pussies from the safety and comfort of your keyboard. It's clear that those cops who shoot up the old ladies fucked up. I've already said that but I will also say that I'm sure it wasn't there INTENT to kill, wound or shoot two old women. Whatever happened that caused them to fire happened but I doubt they intentionally set out to murder two women. Furthermore, not sure where you "work" but I'm pretty sure, given some of your other postings that you wouldn't last two days working some divisions in the LAPD so for you to sit there and call these guys pussies while hiding behind the cloak of anonymity that is afforded to you by the internet, doesn't say too much about you. Actually it says a lot. I hope that you never get caught up in a situation where you honestly make a mistake because we wouldn't want you to have to give you the benefit of the doubt now would we?

waveone writes,
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Furthermore, one or both of the Colorado boys refuse to take any position on what appears to be a blatant homicide by the LA PD -which was out of their jurisdiction IF I understand it correctly , and who intentionally burned the suspect alive. Then the idiot Sheriff has the audacity to claim it wasn't intentional. </div></div>

See now it's shit like this that makes me think you're nothing but a poser. When you write stuff like this, makes me think that you're not really on the job. Yes, Dorner's death will be ruled a homicide. ANY death that is not of natural causes, suicide or accidental is ruled a homicide. For example, a home invasion where the homeowner shoots and kills the intruder is ruled a justifiable homicide. So please stop trying to sensationalize the situation by tossing terms around making it seem more than what it is.

I've still yet to see any credible evidence (or any evidence at all for that matter) that the LAPD was on scene. I'm not sure on the time frames but Big Bear is about 100 miles from where the METRO Div of the LAPD houses their SWAT guys. And about 111 miles from LAX where they said that SWAT was staged and on STANDBY in case SBSO requested their assistance, which to my knowledge they never did. It is about a two hour driving distance from each location approx. I was watching the coverage as it was unfolding and saw the videos that of the shootout that came out in the following days. I never did see an LAPD vehicle, cop or uniform in any of the footage they showed.

BUT, in case the LAPD was up there which I don't think they were, who cares? If you knew anything about investigations you'd know that sometimes they take you out of your jurisdiction and it is perfectly okay to do do in order to follow up on leads, work a case or in this case attempt to apprehend a psychopath who was intent on not being taken alive. There is also a thing called "Mutal Aid" where one agency requests the assistance or resources of another agency. Guess what, the assisting agency has to go outside their jurisdiction in order to provide assistance. But <span style="font-style: italic">you're a cop</span> so you know this, right?

I do agree with you on one thing. The stupid sheriff shouldn't have said what he did. He should have come out and been honest. This guy was hell bent on not being taken alive, made that clear several times in his manifesto. He just shot two cops, killing one. He made his intentions very clear, nothing wrong with burning his ass in order to stop the carnage. Leathal force is leathal force dude, whether it comes by means of .45ACP, flamethrower or JDAM strike. Either way, I'm cool with it. He wrote his own ticket. But yea, the sheriff should have just been up front with the whole thing instead of pussy footing around the issue.

waveone writes,
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">SOP is Exactly what they did in that scenario. In fact several officers on this thread admitted that I believe. When you have a cop killer or substantial threat holed-up, they burn them out. In fact, the LA PD so disregards the rule of law they didn't even try to cloak their intentions. In several transmissions the intent to burn that M-Fer out is clearly heard. </div></div>

LAPD SOP? You mean SBSO SOP because LAPD wasn't there remember? Either way, are you familiar with LAPD or SBSO SOP and if so can you source exactly where it says what you claim it says? Also, please quote the "several officers" who admitted this in the thread. If not you're just spreading misinformation. Also, do you have a link to those transmissions? Not because I do not believe you, I'm sure something like this was said in the heat of battle. Its just that I haven't heard it myself and would like to.

waveone writes,
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">he'd have us all stuffed and cuffed</div></div>

Sounds like you get your cop lingo from the movies friend. No cop that I know talks like that. Methinks you're not as you claim to be but whatever. You have a following here because you say the things that make them feel good which is cool. I'd rather impart the truth whether its ugly or not.

I'm sorry that I don't fit your standard of model officer. I'm the first one to admit that I have my faults and I'm not perfect. I've made my fair share of mistakes but I've never collared anyone unfairly. I've never taken a dime that I didn't earn, I've never lied on the stand or in reports. And I always start out treating people, EVERYONE the same up until they demonstrate a need to be treated otherwise.

So for you to sit there and label me as corrupt or someone who's likely to light up old ladies and try to cover it up, you can go fuck your righteous self. In my opinion, you're nothing more than a piece of shit who speaks an eloquent word and tells people what they want to hear.

Furthermore, I'm glad that Dorner got smoked. Kudos to those brave officers who met the threat head on and stopped a madman.
 
Re: Former LEO gone crazy in SoCal

<span style="font-weight: bold">Assumptions-</span> no "we" don't . I read the entire thread jackass- along with several other of your snide posts. If you meant what you stated, I'd say I have a fair read on what type of character you are.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Conspiracy Theories</span>- typical simple minded, discrediting rhetoric. I saw very little conspiracy theory conjecture here, whereas I do see quite a bit of accusation and attempts to discredit by you. For the record though , not all conspiracies are theories.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Intentional Attempts to Murder</span>- nice job at obfuscation captain obvious. No joke? Really they didn't set out to kill two old ladies? I don't recall stating that, nor reading it from anyone else on this thread. Try another tactic or get real. They were negligent period. No excuses, no benefit period. Furthermore by the looks of things once the ID'd what they thought was Dorner they absolutely determined to kill him/them. In addition, they did the same thing to another car.

<span style="font-weight: bold">The Cloak of the internet </span>goes both ways dude. It affords you the same. My guess is without it on neutral ground you're probably still a punk , just a lot less mouthy.


LA PD- It is possible they weren't on the scene, yet there is no evidence either way. Regardless of that fact their finger prints were all over the lead up to this situation and in my opinion and that of others there was plenty of screw ups to go around.

<span style="font-weight: bold">My experience</span>- IF you bothered to read anything I typed, I stated my lack of experience, or my being "green", though I learn every day. Yet you seize on more of your stupid-points in attempts to validate yourself and discredit others.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Link</span> If you are interested in total disclosure then find them yourself, because I heard them personally. I could give a damn whether you believe me or not. Others have heard them as well. In fact I believe someone posted one on this or another thread. My guess is though you'll disregard in order to perpetuate your fantasy

My guess though is you are comfortable and thus validated in your ignorance. Things are easier that way for you because is appeals to your pathetic nature.


<span style="font-weight: bold">Cuffed and Stuffed </span> - I would ask if you were serious but clearly your goof y ass is. I haven't heard anyone speak like that either. I used the term simply because I read it earlier in the thread If I am not mistaken- not because I think it sounds like cop-speak or sounds cool.

Here's a clue for you idiot- no one cares that Dorner got smoked. On the other hand most everyone cares about the rule of Law except for your militant ass. They also care about how this and other issues continue to be handled.

The more I read, the more evident it becomes that you are the sort of lawless POS that will "drone" and do exactly what you are told to include manipulating situations to suit your purpose. If it meant "burning" someone else because you screwed up, despite serious negligence, you'd do it.

Your attempts to play righteous cop by providing a litany of your virtues falls well short. Your self proclamations are a joke Especially after you summarily discredit anyone who disagrees with you on this or any matter -on the internet no less.

Too rich






 
Re: Former LEO gone crazy in SoCal

All you need to know about slap is he's the type of person to enforce and subjugate people to illegal laws he himself has no intention of living under as a civilian. He's not worthy of polishing the shoes of the Saratoga Sheriffs who wrote the letter telling the governor of ny to go fuck himself. We will never see the same from the likes of slap because his creed is his pension that he's 'earned'.

This is the same fool who criticizes a CCW for drawing his weapon when being attacked but says there's no intent to kill when dozens of shots are fired at innocents by LAPD. This is the institutionalized mind at work. The State and its representatives are beyond reproach and citizens should just be grateful. Period.

Slapchop, a hypocritical douche coming to a home 'inspection/confiscation' near you soon.
 
Re: Former LEO gone crazy in SoCal

You continue to be a joke of epic proportions. Do you actually believe your own press?

You sit here on your righteous high horse and pontificate and bloviate on things its clear you know nothing about. I don't need to discredit you, you've done a fine job of doing that yourself. In the future, learn to do your homework better or just keep your mouth shut.

You're just another coward who likes to make allegations, and spin things out of context but when called to task you can't produce. Don't tell me what it is I said, go back and quote me. It's easy enough. The only problem is you won't find anything in this thread where I took the side of the LAPD only to say that they weren't at the scene of Dorners death (there is one piece of conjecture and conspiracy theory for you).

Learn to think for yourself you pompous dipshit, instead of following the crowd.
 
Re: Former LEO gone crazy in SoCal

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EventHorizon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">All you need to know about slap is he's the type of person to enforce and subjugate people to illegal laws he himself has no intention of living under as a civilian. He's not worthy of polishing the shoes of the Saratoga Sheriffs who wrote the letter telling the governor of ny to go fuck himself. We will never see the same from the likes of slap because his creed is his pension that he's 'earned'.

This is the same fool who criticizes a CCW for drawing his weapon when being attacked but says there's no intent to kill when dozens of shots are fired at innocents by LAPD. This is the institutionalized mind at work. The State and its representatives are beyond reproach and citizens should just be grateful. Period.

Slapchop, a hypocritical douche coming to a home 'inspection/confiscation' near you soon. </div></div>

My little faggot Chihuahua, was wondering when you'd show your angry little face chanting your tired old chant. You need to write some new lyrics dude. Copying and pasting the same post over and over is getting silly now. Either that or just put it in your sig line.

Another unclever troll who makes it his point to spin the words of others and fabricate lies in order to win favor and bolster his arguments.

Now that I know what your Achilles Heel is, I'm gonna make it my hobby to raise your blood pressure to the point that you need medical intervention.
 
Re: Former LEO gone crazy in SoCal

I think you guys need to sit down and have a beer summit. I got just the place in mind ...

015qEnt.jpg
 
Re: Former LEO gone crazy in SoCal

I have a few unwritten street rules also. Let's agree that what you profess is a load of crap and move on, shall we?
 
Re: Former LEO gone crazy in SoCal

You should be grateful and honor Slap...

Its the best insight into psyche of a member of a system. You see him and you can be sure he is copy of an average politician or official anywhere in the system. There have been years of negative (from our point of view) selection to make sure proper candidates sit on seats of power.

If anyone still has illusions that things can turn around with talk, logic and power of arguments (spoken or written) has a prime example of the fact that only thing to bring about change is good old revolution.
 
Re: Former LEO gone crazy in SoCal

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Slapchop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You continue to be a joke of epic proportions. Do you actually believe your own press?

You sit here on your righteous high horse and pontificate and bloviate on things its clear you know nothing about. I don't need to discredit you, you've done a fine job of doing that yourself. In the future, learn to do your homework better or just keep your mouth shut.

You're just another coward who likes to make allegations, and spin things out of context but when called to task you can't produce. Don't tell me what it is I said, go back and quote me. It's easy enough. The only problem is you won't find anything in this thread where I took the side of the LAPD only to say that they weren't at the scene of Dorners death (there is one piece of conjecture and conspiracy theory for you).

Learn to think for yourself you pompous dipshit, instead of following the crowd.

</div></div>

I'm not telling you what you said jackass, I am responding to your quotations in abbreviated form. It is also clear to anyone who doesn't have an agenda that I responded to your manipulation and refusal to acknowledge all facts involved. Instead you cherry pick in order to validate your position, nothing more. The only bloviations are coming from you Bill.....Nice attempt at articulating anything over two syllables, drone.

Anyone who reads understands readily that you either take the side of the LEO, or remain calculatingly neutral. Like in the case of nervous trigger happy officers who shot up two old ladies , then another car beside. Only after being called out did you grudgingly admit they could have over reacted. So you lie- which is probably typical, and continually attempt to place people on the defensive in order to gain advantage through discrediting them and verbal abuse. Yet it irritates you here because this is a level playing field and you can't handle that.

"Think for yourself" - again that's rich coming from a drone.... You certainly don't slapchop. All you do is follow your indoctrination/training and blindly follow the orders of the state. Like I stated before, you're exactly the kind of puppet that would go door to door on command.

Slapchop aka barney fife - the biggest cartoon on the board.
 
Re: Former LEO gone crazy in SoCal

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: waveone</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Slapchop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You continue to be a joke of epic proportions. Do you actually believe your own press?

You sit here on your righteous high horse and pontificate and bloviate on things its clear you know nothing about. I don't need to discredit you, you've done a fine job of doing that yourself. In the future, learn to do your homework better or just keep your mouth shut.

You're just another coward who likes to make allegations, and spin things out of context but when called to task you can't produce. Don't tell me what it is I said, go back and quote me. It's easy enough. The only problem is you won't find anything in this thread where I took the side of the LAPD only to say that they weren't at the scene of Dorners death (there is one piece of conjecture and conspiracy theory for you).

Learn to think for yourself you pompous dipshit, instead of following the crowd.

</div></div>

I'm not telling you what you said jackass, I am responding to your quotations in abbreviated form. It is also clear to anyone who doesn't have an agenda that I responded to your manipulation and refusal to acknowledge all facts involved. Instead you cherry pick in order to validate your position, nothing more. The only bloviations are coming from you Bill.....Nice attempt at articulating anything over two syllables, drone.

Anyone who reads understands readily that you either take the side of the LEO, or remain calculatingly neutral. Like in the case of nervous trigger happy officers who shot up two old ladies , then another car beside. Only after being called out did you grudgingly admit they could have over reacted. So you lie- which is probably typical, and continually attempt to place people on the defensive in order to gain advantage through discrediting them and verbal abuse. Yet it irritates you here because this is a level playing field and you can't handle that.

"Think for yourself" - again that's rich coming from a drone.... You certainly don't slapchop. All you do is follow your indoctrination/training and blindly follow the orders of the state. Like I stated before, you're exactly the kind of puppet that would go door to door on command.

Slapchop aka barney fife - the biggest cartoon on the board. </div></div>

Slap's not a drone and he's certainly not dumb or unable to think for himself. He's much worse than that, he just doesn't give a shit. He'll go with whatever he judges to be in his best interest. Nothing wrong with that in principle but essentially, because of his role and job, he's far more dangerous to the general population as a result. The likes of Bloomberg, Feinstein and Obama would be nothing if not for the willingness and calculated self-interest of people like Slap who masquerade as public servants. On the face of it, he's probably an effective police officer but if it comes to making a choice of morals/ethics or protecting self-interest, then Slap will do what's good for Slap while stating the public should be grateful for his presence and 'sacrifice' in doing a job they don't have the balls/sheep etc.

To brush Slap off as a drone is as dangerous as brushing off all progressives as just dope smoking hippies.
 
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