I am getting a little confused when it comes to loading some 175smks for 1k yards. I have 9 years experience in rifle reloading, but this is my first rodeo for long range. It seems most people are strictly saying that you load to get the appropriate velocity to stay over mach 1.2 and disregard group sizes at close range. I don't have as much time as I would like for load development (most of my free time goes to prep). I would like to use my time wisely. Am I correct at stating that once I find a load with consistent velocities over 2600 fps with the SMKs I would be good to go for a 800 to 1k load, regardless of how they shoot within 300 yards?
- Thread starter M1barker
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Re: .308 For 1k Questions
Personally, I tune my rifles at 100-300 yds testing for accuracy and usually choose my highest charge load if it shoots good enough. If it doesn't shoot good at 100-300 yds I don't even try it at longer ranges. Once I get a load that shoots good I shoot at 600yds-1000yds and see how it does. I don't really worry about a crony with fps numbers. Just what the paper says at range. All my rifles that shoot great at 1000yds shoot great at 100 yds as well. I choose accuracy over velocity my self but if the difference is huge I would consider there to be a problem and would look at fixing it. Changing powder, bullets, primers or whatever. I work my loads up in .3grn increments most of the time and check for accuracy and pressure signs. Good luck.
Personally, I tune my rifles at 100-300 yds testing for accuracy and usually choose my highest charge load if it shoots good enough. If it doesn't shoot good at 100-300 yds I don't even try it at longer ranges. Once I get a load that shoots good I shoot at 600yds-1000yds and see how it does. I don't really worry about a crony with fps numbers. Just what the paper says at range. All my rifles that shoot great at 1000yds shoot great at 100 yds as well. I choose accuracy over velocity my self but if the difference is huge I would consider there to be a problem and would look at fixing it. Changing powder, bullets, primers or whatever. I work my loads up in .3grn increments most of the time and check for accuracy and pressure signs. Good luck.
Re: .308 For 1k Questions
And yes 2600fpsshould have no trouble at 1000yds with a 175 SMK. My 20" puts 175's out at 2650 and does great at 1000yds. Shot out to 850yds this weekend with great results. You will have to have scope/base that will allow dialing/holdover at that range. WInd gets it that far too when real switchy but accuracy can be dependable.
And yes 2600fpsshould have no trouble at 1000yds with a 175 SMK. My 20" puts 175's out at 2650 and does great at 1000yds. Shot out to 850yds this weekend with great results. You will have to have scope/base that will allow dialing/holdover at that range. WInd gets it that far too when real switchy but accuracy can be dependable.
Re: .308 For 1k Questions
I am going through this very problem right now. I have a very accurate load (.414"@100/5shots)that averages 2423fps but that's not what I want in a 1000yd round. I need more velocity out of this 178gr Amax. Max charge per Hodgdon is 45gr. 45gr nets a lil over 2500fps in my 20" aac-sd. In an OCW test the accuracy load looks like the way to go but it's just too dang slow. Next will be a ladder test to see if I find the same results. I am just hoping I can find something that is less than MOA at 100yds. MOA at 1000yds would be a lil over 10". I could be happy with that. I am just having a heck of a time finding something accurate and fast. Definitely going to watch this thread.
I am going through this very problem right now. I have a very accurate load (.414"@100/5shots)that averages 2423fps but that's not what I want in a 1000yd round. I need more velocity out of this 178gr Amax. Max charge per Hodgdon is 45gr. 45gr nets a lil over 2500fps in my 20" aac-sd. In an OCW test the accuracy load looks like the way to go but it's just too dang slow. Next will be a ladder test to see if I find the same results. I am just hoping I can find something that is less than MOA at 100yds. MOA at 1000yds would be a lil over 10". I could be happy with that. I am just having a heck of a time finding something accurate and fast. Definitely going to watch this thread.
Re: .308 For 1k Questions
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: melloyello</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am just having a heck of a time finding something accurate and fast. </div></div>
You need 2000MR powder.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: melloyello</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am just having a heck of a time finding something accurate and fast. </div></div>
You need 2000MR powder.
Re: .308 For 1k Questions
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: melloyello</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am going through this very problem right now. I have a very accurate load (.414"@100/5shots)that averages 2423fps but that's not what I want in a 1000yd round. I need more velocity out of this 178gr Amax. Max charge per Hodgdon is 45gr. 45gr nets a lil over 2500fps in my 20" aac-sd. In an OCW test the accuracy load looks like the way to go but it's just too dang slow. Next will be a ladder test to see if I find the same results. I am just hoping I can find something that is less than MOA at 100yds. MOA at 1000yds would be a lil over 10". I could be happy with that. I am just having a heck of a time finding something accurate and fast. Definitely going to watch this thread. </div></div>
Are you using Varget?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: melloyello</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am going through this very problem right now. I have a very accurate load (.414"@100/5shots)that averages 2423fps but that's not what I want in a 1000yd round. I need more velocity out of this 178gr Amax. Max charge per Hodgdon is 45gr. 45gr nets a lil over 2500fps in my 20" aac-sd. In an OCW test the accuracy load looks like the way to go but it's just too dang slow. Next will be a ladder test to see if I find the same results. I am just hoping I can find something that is less than MOA at 100yds. MOA at 1000yds would be a lil over 10". I could be happy with that. I am just having a heck of a time finding something accurate and fast. Definitely going to watch this thread. </div></div>
Are you using Varget?
Re: .308 For 1k Questions
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCP</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: melloyello</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am just having a heck of a time finding something accurate and fast. </div></div>
You need 2000MR powder.</div></div> Don't forget CFE223 and IMR4064 and RL17 Those should also give you some speed.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCP</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: melloyello</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am just having a heck of a time finding something accurate and fast. </div></div>
You need 2000MR powder.</div></div> Don't forget CFE223 and IMR4064 and RL17 Those should also give you some speed.
Re: .308 For 1k Questions
Yes I am.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: M1barker</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: melloyello</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am going through this very problem right now. I have a very accurate load (.414"@100/5shots)that averages 2423fps but that's not what I want in a 1000yd round. I need more velocity out of this 178gr Amax. Max charge per Hodgdon is 45gr. 45gr nets a lil over 2500fps in my 20" aac-sd. In an OCW test the accuracy load looks like the way to go but it's just too dang slow. Next will be a ladder test to see if I find the same results. I am just hoping I can find something that is less than MOA at 100yds. MOA at 1000yds would be a lil over 10". I could be happy with that. I am just having a heck of a time finding something accurate and fast. Definitely going to watch this thread. </div></div>
Are you using Varget?</div></div>
Yes I am.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: M1barker</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: melloyello</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am going through this very problem right now. I have a very accurate load (.414"@100/5shots)that averages 2423fps but that's not what I want in a 1000yd round. I need more velocity out of this 178gr Amax. Max charge per Hodgdon is 45gr. 45gr nets a lil over 2500fps in my 20" aac-sd. In an OCW test the accuracy load looks like the way to go but it's just too dang slow. Next will be a ladder test to see if I find the same results. I am just hoping I can find something that is less than MOA at 100yds. MOA at 1000yds would be a lil over 10". I could be happy with that. I am just having a heck of a time finding something accurate and fast. Definitely going to watch this thread. </div></div>
Are you using Varget?</div></div>
Re: .308 For 1k Questions
No your groups need to be there at 300y. Since you are using Varget, there is usually a sweet spot between 44-45g. You will have to put some time into your load test to get accurate readings over the chrono.
No your groups need to be there at 300y. Since you are using Varget, there is usually a sweet spot between 44-45g. You will have to put some time into your load test to get accurate readings over the chrono.
Re: .308 For 1k Questions
+1 on 2000 mr. You'll pick up 90 to 100 fps easy. I run the 185 Berger at 2620 with a 22" bartlein on a GA P Crusader. Im not even running it hot. Found low node and stuck with bc it was my deer hunting round. It sucks with smaller bullets but its burn rate is perfect for the big boys and as we all know sectional density and a higher bc is almost always attained by shooting a bigger bullet in .30 cal.
+1 on 2000 mr. You'll pick up 90 to 100 fps easy. I run the 185 Berger at 2620 with a 22" bartlein on a GA P Crusader. Im not even running it hot. Found low node and stuck with bc it was my deer hunting round. It sucks with smaller bullets but its burn rate is perfect for the big boys and as we all know sectional density and a higher bc is almost always attained by shooting a bigger bullet in .30 cal.
Re: .308 For 1k Questions
Experience by a number of shooters using 22-inch M14s and the Sierra 175 says yes, you'll want at least 2560 fps at sea level to 300 feet MSL in the summer time for 1,000 yards in heat between 75 and 105 Fahrenheit. 44-45 of Varget will get you there.
There are some other good medium and medium-slow powders that will get you there as well, but may be problematic in a semiautomatic rifle due to pressure, velocity, and action time. These would be IMR and H 4895; 4064; RL-15; VV N140; and VV N540.
The 308/7.62 is blessed with a number of good long-range bullets to include Bergers, Hornady, and JLK.
If you're shooting for 800, 900, and 1,000 build your data and groups for there, not for 100, 200, and 300.
Experience by a number of shooters using 22-inch M14s and the Sierra 175 says yes, you'll want at least 2560 fps at sea level to 300 feet MSL in the summer time for 1,000 yards in heat between 75 and 105 Fahrenheit. 44-45 of Varget will get you there.
There are some other good medium and medium-slow powders that will get you there as well, but may be problematic in a semiautomatic rifle due to pressure, velocity, and action time. These would be IMR and H 4895; 4064; RL-15; VV N140; and VV N540.
The 308/7.62 is blessed with a number of good long-range bullets to include Bergers, Hornady, and JLK.
If you're shooting for 800, 900, and 1,000 build your data and groups for there, not for 100, 200, and 300.
Re: .308 For 1k Questions
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: melloyello</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am going through this very problem right now. I have a very accurate load (.414"@100/5shots)that averages 2423fps but that's not what I want in a 1000yd round. I need more velocity out of this 178gr Amax. Max charge per Hodgdon is 45gr. 45gr nets a lil over 2500fps in my 20" aac-sd. In an OCW test the accuracy load looks like the way to go but it's just too dang slow. Next will be a ladder test to see if I find the same results. I am just hoping I can find something that is less than MOA at 100yds. MOA at 1000yds would be a lil over 10". I could be happy with that. I am just having a heck of a time finding something accurate and fast. Definitely going to watch this thread.</div></div> When you do your ladder test. You will probably find 2 or more nodes.Pick the higher powder charge watching pressure signs.I had an SPS tactical.My load for it was Winchester brass, 45.5 varget,WSR and 168 Amax.It should work with a 178 Amax by reducing powder charge.It was stipid accurate.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: melloyello</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am going through this very problem right now. I have a very accurate load (.414"@100/5shots)that averages 2423fps but that's not what I want in a 1000yd round. I need more velocity out of this 178gr Amax. Max charge per Hodgdon is 45gr. 45gr nets a lil over 2500fps in my 20" aac-sd. In an OCW test the accuracy load looks like the way to go but it's just too dang slow. Next will be a ladder test to see if I find the same results. I am just hoping I can find something that is less than MOA at 100yds. MOA at 1000yds would be a lil over 10". I could be happy with that. I am just having a heck of a time finding something accurate and fast. Definitely going to watch this thread.</div></div> When you do your ladder test. You will probably find 2 or more nodes.Pick the higher powder charge watching pressure signs.I had an SPS tactical.My load for it was Winchester brass, 45.5 varget,WSR and 168 Amax.It should work with a 178 Amax by reducing powder charge.It was stipid accurate.
Re: .308 For 1k Questions
For what It's worth, I tried out my new Magnetospeed last week with a couple of my more accurate 308 Win. loads with a Nosler 175 CC OTM.
46.2 grs. of CFE 223 gave me an average of 2749 FPS. (Hornady cases)
41.0 grs. of AR Comp gave me and average of 2653 FPS. (Winchester cases)
This was out of a 24" 1-12" Hart barrel. Neither load showed pressure signs.
CFE 223 can certainly give you an extra push close to what 2000 MR does.
For what It's worth, I tried out my new Magnetospeed last week with a couple of my more accurate 308 Win. loads with a Nosler 175 CC OTM.
46.2 grs. of CFE 223 gave me an average of 2749 FPS. (Hornady cases)
41.0 grs. of AR Comp gave me and average of 2653 FPS. (Winchester cases)
This was out of a 24" 1-12" Hart barrel. Neither load showed pressure signs.
CFE 223 can certainly give you an extra push close to what 2000 MR does.
Re: .308 For 1k Questions
This is a loaded question of sorts. There are so many things to consider at 1,000, and you will have to roll them into a ball and compromise. The biggest thing I consider is wind, the more speed you have the less affect wind has on the bullet because it gets there faster. If we were in a world with zero wind I would go 100% on accuracy, but we're not in a prefect world. Myself I'm willing to sacrifice a little accuracy for more speed. I'm getting 2,710 for a 26" Schneider Barrel using 41.8gr of IMR 8208 in LC brass.
This is a loaded question of sorts. There are so many things to consider at 1,000, and you will have to roll them into a ball and compromise. The biggest thing I consider is wind, the more speed you have the less affect wind has on the bullet because it gets there faster. If we were in a world with zero wind I would go 100% on accuracy, but we're not in a prefect world. Myself I'm willing to sacrifice a little accuracy for more speed. I'm getting 2,710 for a 26" Schneider Barrel using 41.8gr of IMR 8208 in LC brass.
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