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Gunsmithing Tig Welding for Gunsmithing

skeeter355

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Nov 9, 2009
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In a MIG class and will probably attend a TIG class next. Seeing what machines guys are using or recommend for small shop gunsmithing. For a general gunsmith is there much work on aluminum to need an AC/DC rig? I am looking at the Miller Multimatic 200 that is a stick, MIG and TIG machine but only DC TIG. It will do aluminum via MIG. Or is it best to have the AC/DC option available. Thanks for any inputs!
 
Re: Tig Welding for Gunsmithing

For gunsmithing work, 150 amps will totally cover you.

I don't care for the multifunction machines. They do a little of everything, but nothing great.

I can't think of anything gun related that would be better served with a MIG than TIG.

Id focus on a quality AC/DC Tig, if I were you. At least 150 amps. A water cooled torch is really, really nice if you can afford it.

I'm a Miller man, but the Lincoln precision tig is a good machine. Synchrowaves and Dynastys are both excellent.
 
Re: Tig Welding for Gunsmithing

Also:

If you're going to learn to weld, don't you want to be able to learn Aluminum?

Even if you won't need to weld Aluminum on the gun stuff, I can't see having a tig and not have that functionality.

A mig can be used on aluminum, but not great, except for special cases. Plus, it becomes a clusterfuck without the spoolgun, and remains a clusterfuck without it. Pontoon boats? Mig. Little brackets and bits and pieces of stuff for odds and ends? Tig.
 
Re: Tig Welding for Gunsmithing

Turbo54

Thanks for the inputs. I currently have a Miller 140 Mig which is pretty small. Originally was looking to upgrade it to a Miller 210 and one of the instructors had just used the Multimatic 200 and was raving about it. I do think learning aluminum would be benifical and I guess TIG welding is the better way to go with aluminum? My garage is way crowded already so that was the consideration of going with a multifunction machine but this one is not AC. So which TIG model would you look at? (Lincoln or Miller)
 
Re: Tig Welding for Gunsmithing

whatever model TIG you get make sure you check the low side on the amperage as well. I bought a Miller econotig when I was first starting out not realizing it kicked on at 20 amps. There were many times I wished I had full control.
 
Re: Tig Welding for Gunsmithing

I have the lincoln invertec v205, not sure if they still make it but it is truly an amazine machine. I had power constraints that led me to that machine (only draws 23amps at full current I think!).

I added a water cooler to it later because I was welding a shit ton of aluminum dock sections for my dad and it was frying my torches and my hand. Its definitely a nice addition.

I would never buy a tig that couldnt do AC, you may not see the need right this instant, but you will someday and you will kick yourself in the balls for not getting it.
 
Re: Tig Welding for Gunsmithing

For a variety of hobby activities including - but not limited to - gunsmithing, I picked up a Miller Dynasty 200 DX late last year based upon the following:

1) It's light, and runs on 110V (albeit with reduced output). This is good if it has to be dragged into the field to fix a tractor, or over to a buddy's garage who isn't set up with 220V. It does this automatically, so if you can figure out how to plug it in to damn near any outlet (include 440V), the welder will run.

2) 200A is enough to weld some relatively thick aluminum (1/4" at the least, and possibly thicker depending upon geometry, shield gas, and waveform settings). If you really need more than that from an inverter machine, then you are doing some very serious fabrication (I've only once in my life had to weld aluminum at a current north of 200A, and that was because of a clumsy part design that utilized some 3/8" plate). Also note that the input power requirements start getting pretty serious for bigger machines, where as the 200 DX will offer full performance from a standard 30A 220V outlet.

3) 1A at the low end of the DC range and 5A at the low end of the AC range is adequate to do some pretty thin parts (aluminum that is thinner than a credit card, and steel that is damn near the thickness of paper).

4) The Dynasty machines are a breeze to setup and run. There is a large amount of adjustment available to advanced users, or you can pretty much just turn it on and let 'er rip.

If you can wait for the 280 DX, it looks like a great machine - but so far it's only vaporware.

Keep in mind that TIG welding is not necessarily the go-to method for doing quick-and-dirty jobs, such as exhaust work or fixing a plow frame. That's why MIG and stick still have a place in the world - but probably not anywhere near a firearm.






 
Re: Tig Welding for Gunsmithing

I love to talk about welding!

As eric mentioned, anything approaching "precision" is tig work. Farm equipment and bridges are mig/stick work. Tigs will all run a stick, so your only loss is the mig. Not a big loss unless your job requires lots and lots of filler metal, where the never-ending spool is convenient.

For a crowded shop, the Dynasty is perfect, as its compact and light. Syncrowaves are trusty old Trojans, but big and heavy.

Also, the dynasty makes so-so welders look like pros, particularly on Aluminum. The AC high frequency control is frickin awesome. Makes cleanliness much, much less important, and allows a much tighter weld puddle.

Having learned on a sync 250, the dynasty almost drives itself.

However, as I mentioned above, I'm a Miller man but I logged at least 1000 hours on a Lincoln precision tig 275 (I think), which would pump out 333 amps. That was more comparable to a syncrowave and not a dynasty, but really a very very good machine. Other than changing torches once or twice because other users were careless, it was exceptionally reliable and ran beautiful. In fact, Lincolns "micro start" high freq start is superior to Millers. It will ALWAYS zap a nice arc out. First time, every time.
 
Re: Tig Welding for Gunsmithing

Well the Dynasty looks great...and expensive! There should be some used machines out there that I will have to keep an eye out for. Looks like two models (SD and DX). I guess the DX would be the one to look for? Are any Lincolns in the same small machine catagory?
 
Re: Tig Welding for Gunsmithing

I do some pretty fiddly and sometimes downright shitty welding jobs here, and the Lincoln TIGPRO 175 Square Wave has worked well for me for over 10 years now.

I spent most of yesterday morning welding, and still don't see the need for a water-cooled torch in a one man shop. You'd have to being doing more welding than I'd like to anyway. Or just want to have all the cool kids toys.

Look around at auctions for machines. I got mine almost unused locally at auction for $500 ($1800 new at the time). Paid for it with the first job.

The Tigpro will drive 1/8" 7018s all day long, too. If you want stuff to stay together, learn how to stick weld also.

Welding, whatever the method, is pool control. Unless you just want to be a wire squirter.
 
Re: Tig Welding for Gunsmithing

To whet your whistle, here's a few pics:

Titanium joint
DSCN3063.jpg


Subframes
DSCN3039.jpg


Fuel tank seam
DSCN0838.jpg


Exhaust (it had gotten cherry red a number of times prior to this pic)
DSCN0830.jpg


Titanium control arm jig & back purging rig
DSCN0605.jpg
 
Re: Tig Welding for Gunsmithing

My dynasty 200 does everything i need it to do, i think its the SX version so it has a bunch of extra settings that come in handy for the ac tigging. Its set up on 220v and runs well, tends to trip 20 amp breakers on 110v. Never have had any reason to weld gun parts with it but i have done very thin stainless with a foot pedal setup. So yeah +1 dynasty for the house. I've been a lincoln guy from my rig welding days but that little blue box does pretty good!
 
Re: Tig Welding for Gunsmithing

I learned TIG on a Lincoln Idealarc in the early 1970's, and cleanliness was next to Godliness to get good Al welds.

The DX is a super piece of equipment, I was thinking of getting one to add to the Synchrowave 250 I have now. The HF is nice feature for welding AL, but there isn't much of that in gunsmithing.

Here is the top of a turbine blade, welded with a Synchrowave 250. The plate on top is a .060 thick piece of Inconel type material, full penetration welded all around, plus stitched to the internal ribs going across, then the tip built up by multiple passes, hand finished :

IMG_1058.jpg
 
Re: Tig Welding for Gunsmithing

I have a Miller 185 TIG and it's been a very good machine. I would not go any smaller amp wise. The only time I wish for more amps is on thicker aluminum.
I added a water cooled gun and pump. I use tung sharp and I can get a needle point on my tungsten and can weld mag bodies together easily.

Get some soft gloves and a good auto darkening helmet as well.
 
Re: Tig Welding for Gunsmithing

Beautiful.

Material? Filler? (Guessing 4130 and ER70S6)

What's that clevis for?
 
Re: Tig Welding for Gunsmithing

.250" 4130 Condition N

.030 ER70S2 Filler

One big truck...

2011-04-15_12-57-20_151_zpsaf078fa2.jpg
 
Re: Tig Welding for Gunsmithing

The last few post's pictures show some amazing talent. Great work!

I run a Harbor Freight cheapo DC with no foot pedal. It does a good job and it has done a solid share of work and keeps on stingin'. If I had the coin, I'd go with something nicer with AC. But even in a pinch, DC will stick aluminum together.

Best of luck to you.
 
Re: Tig Welding for Gunsmithing

I just purchased a Miller Diversion 180 and love it. It is quite capable of welding most things you will see and has a great price.
 
Re: Tig Welding for Gunsmithing

Can't go wrong with the Miller Dynasty 200DX, unless you'll be doing lots of high amp ally welding. there are machines out there with better duty cycles.
 
Re: Tig Welding for Gunsmithing

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mikee Booshay</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I learned TIG on a Lincoln Idealarc in the early 1970's, and cleanliness was next to Godliness to get good Al welds.

The DX is a super piece of equipment, I was thinking of getting one to add to the Synchrowave 250 I have now. The HF is nice feature for welding AL, but there isn't much of that in gunsmithing.

Here is the top of a turbine blade, welded with a Synchrowave 250. The plate on top is a .060 thick piece of Inconel type material, full penetration welded all around, plus stitched to the internal ribs going across, then the tip built up by multiple passes, hand finished :

IMG_1058.jpg
</div></div>
BEAUTIFUL weld!
 
Re: Tig Welding for Gunsmithing

Ben, did you do that by hand? That looks like machine. Virtually perfect.
 
Re: Tig Welding for Gunsmithing

Dropping dimes, well done boys. We have a Miller Syncrowave 350 and a few snap on machines, they all do the job well. Some just spin the meter much more than others. Remember, big difference between a welder and just a rod burner. Learn as much as you can in school, but you will learn even more out on the job. I am lucky I do sub work for a third generation welder/fabricator. Ol school to say the least. Good luck.
 
Re: Tig Welding for Gunsmithing

So on weldingtipsandtricks.com they are actually recommending some of the chinese Tig machines from Longevity and Everlast saying they compare very favorably to the Miller Dynasty DX. Granted Miller would probably have better support but it is tempting as they are about a third of the price of a Miller. Anybody have experience with these machines?
 
Re: Tig Welding for Gunsmithing

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BenTerrible</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Miller...

IMG_0691_zpsa9dd9d18.jpg
</div></div> wow, that is truly impressive
 
Re: Tig Welding for Gunsmithing

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mikee Booshay</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I learned TIG on a Lincoln Idealarc in the early 1970's, and cleanliness was next to Godliness to get good Al welds.

The DX is a super piece of equipment, I was thinking of getting one to add to the Synchrowave 250 I have now. The HF is nice feature for welding AL, but there isn't much of that in gunsmithing.

Here is the top of a turbine blade, welded with a Synchrowave 250. The plate on top is a .060 thick piece of Inconel type material, full penetration welded all around, plus stitched to the internal ribs going across, then the tip built up by multiple passes, hand finished :

</div></div>


Are those for westinghouse? We do a bunch that look an awful lot like that (course so do most turbine blades) at the shop after they're hydroformed at the next town over.
 
Re: Tig Welding for Gunsmithing

There are some real pieces of art posted above. I'm wondering about the Everlast machines as well. I'v always been a Miller guy.I learned TIG on a Syncrowave 250 and MIG on a 250X. Unfortunately my budget isn't in the relm of a Miller or Lincoln. If anyone could shine some light on this it would be helpful.
 
Re: Tig Welding for Gunsmithing

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BenTerrible</div><div class="ubbcode-body">.250" 4130 Condition N

.030 ER70S2 Filler

One big truck...

2011-04-15_12-57-20_151_zpsaf078fa2.jpg
</div></div>
Beautiful work sir
This something that you better make damn sure you think out order of operation. looks like you could fuck yourself pretty quick.
 
Re: Tig Welding for Gunsmithing

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: propeine</div><div class="ubbcode-body">


Are those for westinghouse? We do a bunch that look an awful lot like that (course so do most turbine blades) at the shop after they're hydroformed at the next town over.</div></div>

Those are for a GE Frame 7FA unit. Got any pictures of the ones you work on? I can tell you what they are usually, if I can see them.
 
Re: Tig Welding for Gunsmithing

I'll get you some pics this coming weekend. Its my previous employers shop. I still do consulting work for them on the weekends for spare cash. Started on the floor there and moved up through to office project management. Or I'll see if i can text the guy doing them now for some pics tomorrow.

Either way nice work man! Lot of nice work in this thread. Just thought I recognized those.
 
Re: Tig Welding for Gunsmithing

The Chinese welders are fine. If you're using it all day everyday you may want to invest in something better, but general use they're fine. There's always the chance of getting a bad one with anything you buy so just make sure the supplier has good after sales service for repairs.
Ill be buying one soon, i would rather have an Miller, Fronius, Kemppi or Lincoln but don't have the money at the moment.
 
Miller all the way! Currently running a Dynasty 200DX TIG/SMAW, MM175 MIG, and Hypertherm PowerMax 30 Plasma Cutter. Rigs currently configured on 240V (30A, 20A) circuits w/ NEMA 50-P/R inputs. The 200DX's low-high end amperage and control, as previously mentioned, makes this IGBT-based rig ideal for gunsmithing and future "growth." Sie note: Always consider customer service when selecting a unit. Both the "Blue", "Red", and "Black n Red" American manufacturers are only a phone call away for technical consult and/or support. Solid track records and outstanding products. Although other "colored" (foreign-based) units (MIG, TIG, Plasma, MultiProcess) units are attractive from an initial cost perspective, would tread very lightly and do your homework prior to selection. If you do not really need portability, look into a used transformer TIG unit (e.g. SynchroWave) instead of an inverter unit. A used xformer unit should be ~ 0.5X $ compared to a inverter rig.

Excellent resources available via www.weldingweb.com and www.weldingtipsandtricks.com. Blaze on!
 
I have a Miller Syncrowave 250 dx water cooled rig for race car building. This rig is 8 years old now but smooth as silk from bottom to top in the amp range. have welded aluminum as thin as .020" with it. Tons of 4130 condition N have been done as well. I have done many gunsmith welding operations with it as well. It is not a machine to get if on a budget as fully rigged from the factory it was over $4000 8 years ago.

By the way BenTerrible, That is some fine quality work on the suspension arms.
 
Tig will save your ass machining when you fuck up and have to fix it. Gunsmithing it comes in handy, especially on things like installing bolt knob on Remington and turning bolt down to find a big ass inclusion from cast bolt knob. I build a lot of guns, I dont tig but my buddy does and I have had several times I have needed to have him tig things like Rem bolt and other things. One of these days Im going to learn, until then atleast I know someone who is very talented.