I have a Remington 700 SPS with a 20" barrel that seems to be shooting low. I have only used scoped rifles for deer hunting and have built this up for long range shooting so I'm not an expert at it but it doesn't seem right. With the rifle zeroed at 200 yards I only have 4 mils of up adjustment and 17 mils down. I have a 20 MOA base that cants the scope down on the muzzle side. I have only shot it out to 400 but am worried I'll run out of adjustment a little past that. Shouldn't the scope be well towards the bottom of it's range? As far as optics I've used a Millet TRS-1, a Vortex Viper PST and a Bushnell Elite Tactical with similar results so I'm sure the problem is with the rifle. Maybe the barrel isn't square with the action and is canted down? I have considered buying a 40 MOA base but that's another good chunk of change that I still don't think will get me all the way to where I should be. I'm planning to shoot this to 800 and see if it will do 1000. I've been reloading and with the longest bullet that can fit in my mag I'm still .06" away from the grooves so a new barrel wouldn't depress me too much. Hopefully this fix won't be that expensive though. Thanks for any advice.
- Thread starter adamts01
- Start date
Did you bed your scope base? If not, you should.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoW5bHQqgis&feature=youtu.be
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoW5bHQqgis&feature=youtu.be
Something is not right somewhere. Things to check first would be the mounting of your base on the receiver, if that's ok you shouldn't be running out of elevation with a 20 moa base. If it's a new rifle, I'd either contact the dealer you bought it at or go direct to Remington's customer service to see what they say.
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my guess is something is wrong with the base.
How does the rifle shoot?
How does the rifle shoot?
Here is a picture of my set up. I had a one piece base I chopped up so I could load rounds easier. The zero didn't change after modifying the base so that isn't the problem. It's shooting 1/2 MOA right now. The rifle is a couple of years old and I changed the bolt handle, trigger, stock and painted it so I'm sure Remington wouldn't help me out with it. I'm thinking of just getting a 40 MOA base but that's still just a bandaid. I'll be bugged by it till it's right. I really think it's the barrel/acction fit. Something isn't square.
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What scope, base, and rings are you currently using?
Well cutting your base in half wasn't the best idea. It looks like your power adjustment ring is sitting on the base. That would cause you to lose all your elevation.
adamts01,
First, how did you determine up/down travel on your scope? By shooting or dialing to the limit? The reason I say double check that is often when a 20 moa base is used I find people going the wrong way with dialing. Especially when they see the crosshairs on a 100 yd. target. People will see the crosshair drop from the point of impact and think the scope is dialing down, when in fact it is dialing up. What makes me say double check it first is you describe the objective end of the scope can be seen slanting down at an angle. It appears to me that it is not doing that from your picture.
Next, pull the scope and rings off the base. If you have a long machinists rule (straight-edge), lay it on edge on top of the base and see if indeed it points downward toward the end of the barrel. If it is, take the rings off the scope and place them on a flat table and see if they line up exactly. Remember it only takes .005" difference in the rings to make an inch difference at 100 yds. If the rings are significantly, or even minutely different, it's a big problem. As you stated, you've tried three scopes and they all do the same thing. So, it's bases, rings or rifle.
Added:
When placing the straightedge/machinists rule on the bases it should also lay flat on them. If not you are tweaking the scope body (same problem as uneven rings).
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Here's a bigger picture.
I don't mind at all you bringing up the dumb stuff. I've been a motorcycle mechanic for years and spent 15 minutes going through fuses and relays when my bike wouldn't crank when it turned out to be the kill switch my wife used when I never do.
Back to the scope. I don't even have one revolution of up adjustment when zeroed at 200. I realize this actually moves the crosshairs down which moves the bullet impact up. the base is definitely higher in the back than the front. As for the rings I've used two different sets, moved the front ring to the back and spun them 180 degrees without changing my impact.
I really hate taking anything in. I'd so much rather spend a little more and buy the tool and learn to do something for myself. All I can think of is that the action or the barrel isn't true or where they mate isn't seated correctly. Is there anything else I can do before taking it in? I have dial indicators and access to a lathe. Is taking the barrel off and checking for out of round or somehow checking the action doable from home?
Back to the scope. I don't even have one revolution of up adjustment when zeroed at 200. I realize this actually moves the crosshairs down which moves the bullet impact up. the base is definitely higher in the back than the front. As for the rings I've used two different sets, moved the front ring to the back and spun them 180 degrees without changing my impact.
I really hate taking anything in. I'd so much rather spend a little more and buy the tool and learn to do something for myself. All I can think of is that the action or the barrel isn't true or where they mate isn't seated correctly. Is there anything else I can do before taking it in? I have dial indicators and access to a lathe. Is taking the barrel off and checking for out of round or somehow checking the action doable from home?
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Should be the other way around for a 20 moa base, front needs to be higher so you have the most adjustment up.
Could I get a second ruling on that?
Incorrect.
A canted base slopes down from the rear to the front.
The scope needs to be able to point farther down in order to get more elevation out of the muzzle.
Joe
From the picture it looks like the front mount is higher thsn the rear, which would cause the condition you mentioned. Did this come as a two piece? Something looks screwy in how high the front of the scope is.
+1 is higher in back...
Did you have this problem before you chopped up the base?
You took a one piece base and made it into a two piece base. You should have just gotten a two piece base. It might just be an optical illusion but it looks like the ring on the rear base might be hanging off the edge a little bit.
You took a one piece base and made it into a two piece base. You should have just gotten a two piece base. It might just be an optical illusion but it looks like the ring on the rear base might be hanging off the edge a little bit.
Alright. watched some Midway videos. That Larry Potterfield makes blueprinting a rifle look pretty easy......
It's good to see exactly how these things are put together. From what I see the only thing that could be off with the rifle is that the action where the barrel threads in was drilled and tapped at a very slight angle. Or the barrel wasn't cut perfectly square on the chamber side where the threads stop. the barrel would be fixable. When I'm shooting accurately farther than what a 40 MOA base will take me too I'll tear this thing apart or just start over.
It's good to see exactly how these things are put together. From what I see the only thing that could be off with the rifle is that the action where the barrel threads in was drilled and tapped at a very slight angle. Or the barrel wasn't cut perfectly square on the chamber side where the threads stop. the barrel would be fixable. When I'm shooting accurately farther than what a 40 MOA base will take me too I'll tear this thing apart or just start over.
I know I know. The base goes out far enough so both scope mounts have a full contact patch. I had this 1 piece and was hating dropping a round in and then pressing it down and then making sure it was all the way back. Forget about doing any of this with even light gloves. So I said screw it and dremeled the thing. It shoots just as well now as it did before. My zero didn't change at all. I was pretty impressed by that.
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Take your scope off of the base and run a straight edge across the back and front base. Your going to see if the front and back base are on the same plane. If your base are not on the same plane this could be your problem and I'm willing to bet the rear is lower than the front. Which means you don't have 20 moa.
Here is a pic of my 20 moa scope base - I'm not sure if it is just the perspective that the picture was taken but the back of mine seems much more elevated than yours does.
You are positive its a 20 moa base?
my front seems higher as well so maybe the back is higher just to compensate but either way i would measure like jtv was saying
You are positive its a 20 moa base?
my front seems higher as well so maybe the back is higher just to compensate but either way i would measure like jtv was saying
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The barrel could be very bent from the factory. It could actually be pointed "down" at the muzzle end. No way to tell until you check it. I've heard of this happening but never seen it myself.
Since your base is one piece and not cut up. The easiest way to check your base is to use the method provided in the video above.
Remove your scope, then the two screws from the back of the base and check for a gap between the base and rear bridge. Place the screws back on the rear then remove the two front screws and then check for a gap again. If you do have a gap on either end then you will need to bed your base which is shown how in the video.
Sounds like an action/barrel problem. Easiest and cheapest solution is a 40 moa base.
He can't. adamts01 cut the center section of his base to make two. As he noted, his zero didn't change from when it was a one piece. So, that tells me the base has stayed stationary.
adamts01,
Sorry about asking dumb stuff. If I don't know you then it's hard to know where you're at as far as being able to troubleshoot the issue here. A few have talked about using a straightedge and seeing where the bases point, downward?, upward? is the straightedge flat along the bases? As I noted if they are not flat, the scope can get 'tweaked' and will take away all the travel you are hoping for.
Another thing you can do is center the reticle in the scope and set it in the rings. pick a point about 100 yds. out (if you can) and with the bolt out look down the barrel and boresight where the bore points. Lay the reticle centered scope in the rings and see where it points. Go out and roughly measure the difference. Another thing you can do here is to take the straightedge and lay right on top of the action. Look down the straightedge and see where it points in relation to where the bore points.
I don't know what year your 700 is but I believe they are a round top now? Some of the older ones had a flatter rear ring and this is not possible. Keeping that in mind did you order the correct base? You may have one for a round ring that requires a flat rear ring base?
FWIW, I've assumed step 2 (check all switches to be in the right configuration) was already done and can't figure out why step 3 and beyond all check out but the thing ain't workin'.
-hope that helps.
Would cutting a 20 moa base into 2 pieces not bind and try to bend the scope tube? I might be thinking of this the wrong way, but it seems like the front part of the base would be lower than the rear, which would cause the whole thing to be misaligned. I don't see how this wouldn't put stress on the maintube. Am I making any sense?
the scope sits level, just at an downward (flat) angle.
Is it still a flat angle now that it's been cut in half? I know with a 1 piece it's flat because it is essentially a downward sloping ramp, but If one were to cut the middle out of the base then it would be more like a step. I'm having a hard time trying to articulate what I'm thinking ( could be because I'm talking out of my a$$)
So this thread got me thinking enough to pull out my rifle.
I have a 20MOA base on my SPS .308 and wanted to confirm my elevation adjustment. With my 100 yard zero set I have a total of 15 mils UP. This is correct because that is where I want the bullet to go for long range...up. In actuality it brings the crosshairs down. On the other hand, I have 3 mils DOWN. So I would say after reading this thread, that my setup is right about where I want it to be.
On the other hand I have 5 mils of Left windage and 10 mils of Right windage which I still think is fine.
Something has to be off on your setup or are you reading it wrong?
When you turn the turret in the direction that gives you 17 mils of elevation what does the turret indicate (up or down)? Lets say you use the Vortex in this instance.
I have a 20MOA base on my SPS .308 and wanted to confirm my elevation adjustment. With my 100 yard zero set I have a total of 15 mils UP. This is correct because that is where I want the bullet to go for long range...up. In actuality it brings the crosshairs down. On the other hand, I have 3 mils DOWN. So I would say after reading this thread, that my setup is right about where I want it to be.
On the other hand I have 5 mils of Left windage and 10 mils of Right windage which I still think is fine.
Something has to be off on your setup or are you reading it wrong?
When you turn the turret in the direction that gives you 17 mils of elevation what does the turret indicate (up or down)? Lets say you use the Vortex in this instance.
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Took the rings off and everything is level. I held a level on top of the rail to compare the angle to the barrel but the entire barrel is tapered. I miked it to see if it leveled off but it doesn't. Got redneck and put a cleaning rod through the barrel to compare it to the level rested on the scope mounts but there's no way to get a good measurement like that. The bore is the only level surface on the barrel to compare the mount angle with but I don't have any way to make that happen. I can say that the rear mount is much thicker than the front. Double checked and the 4 mils of up adjustment does in fact
move the crosshairs down. This rifle does have a more flat than round surface on top of the action and I do have the correct mount. I'm ordering a 1 piece 40 moa mount and going to take it from there. I really appreciate all the great replies. A couple of great ideas came up. I'll let you know how the new mount shoots.
move the crosshairs down. This rifle does have a more flat than round surface on top of the action and I do have the correct mount. I'm ordering a 1 piece 40 moa mount and going to take it from there. I really appreciate all the great replies. A couple of great ideas came up. I'll let you know how the new mount shoots.
Did you measure the rich height? Measure from the bottom of the ring to the point where it contacts the rail.
Are there ring marks on the scopes you have removed?
Is the distance between the base and the scope the same in the rear as the front?
Are there ring marks on the scopes you have removed?
Is the distance between the base and the scope the same in the rear as the front?
Good luck with the 40 moa. Should work fine.
