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Suppressors Selling a Suppressor to an Out-Of-State Private Party.
- Thread starter -Nick-
- Start date
You would have to Form 4 it to a SOT that is in your state, then they would have to Form 3 it to the individuals state SOT, then that person's SOT would have to Form 4 it to them. I believe
You are almost correct. You can Form 4 to the out of state FFL/SOT. Doesn't need to go to a dealer in state then out.
No, the dealer does not pay a tax champ. It only takes 4-6 weeks to transfer from dealer to dealer or private party to dealer. Where the 6+ months comes in is dealer to private party. I think this is correct but wait for someone more knowledgable to say yay or nay.
Can anyone else confirm this? If that's correct then great. Not that I doubt you man, lol...
I'm not a dealer though. I'm a private party selling to another private party out-of-state. I contacted one of our local dealers and his response was I had to form 4 it with another $200 tax stamp to the other guys dealer and then that dealer form 4's it to the buyer.
Your local dealer was correct.
You Form4 the can to the buyers in state SOT ($200 stamp required).
Then the buyer pays the Form4 transfer from his in state SOT.
And it takes the normal form 4 time of 6 months each way, so essentially the buyer is looking at a 1 year wait period?
No a individual has to transfer it to a dealer out of state on a Form4. Once the item gets onto a Form4 it has to transfer on a Form4 paid transfer. Only dealers can transfer it via Form3's between each other.
Yes, there are 2 taxes on selling something owned.
First to the dealer(in state or out of state makes no difference)
Second to the new owner.
First to the dealer(in state or out of state makes no difference)
Second to the new owner.
I'll say it... a lot of bullshit and taxation for a derelict system that's like watching paint dry after you've downed a bunch of Red Bull. Essentially the Seller is paying the same tax AGAIN when the ATF knows the dealer is going to be transferring it on a form 4 to a new owner who is also paying the $200 tax. it so they're picking up a quick $200.
How does the ATF know its going to be transferred?
Do you realize how little money the NFA brings in? They are hardly going for an extra 200 bucks.
Why would someone be taking possession as a "dealer" if it wasn't being resold? And why does it only take 4-6 weeks instead of the 6 months? Frankly, I think the $200 is ridiculous considering they could go to an electronic system and it would take less than a week to process an order. I have no pity for the ATF...
As a FFL and Class 3 dealer myself one would take possession as a dealer to demo a unit. Just like if I get a post-ban full auto I can't sell it but to another SOT and then they have to have a letter from a law enforcement department stating they are using it for demo purposes before that transfer can be done.
I would buy a used can for demo purposes.
It only takes that short of time because once they vet the seller and see that the buyer is an licensee its only a matter of verifying that the SOT is current. Its in place to enhance commerce.
Electronic system would be perhaps a shy quicker certainly wouldn't be a week. Everything still needs to be verified, fingerprints, legality of entities etc... If it were that simple then it would be in place already.
It only takes that short of time because once they vet the seller and see that the buyer is an licensee its only a matter of verifying that the SOT is current. Its in place to enhance commerce.
Electronic system would be perhaps a shy quicker certainly wouldn't be a week. Everything still needs to be verified, fingerprints, legality of entities etc... If it were that simple then it would be in place already.
Still for business purposes, NOT for personal use. It's no different that a dealer to dealer transfer IMO. Now if you choose to transfer it from a demo can to a personal can then I can see it.
It doesn't take a week to run a background or fingerprints. The only reason it takes so long now is because they still do everything by hand and have resisted going to an electronic system. They're one of the few branches where you still have to call to get a status update and they still carry around boxes of files.
Have you ever worked with any of the systems the .gov uses for investigation?
Also do you have ANY idea of how backed up they are on applications?
Lol... I know how long it's taken the DHS, FBI, and numerous others to run me personal background and prints. And, I stayed at a Holiday Inn last night. What I don't know is why you're bending over backwards to defend the ATF and the FACT that they have an antiquated system. Obviously you and I disagree on this subject which was never the original topic to begin with, so for the sake of me not turning into the raging bull in a china shop I normally am... let's drop it.
Not defending the ATF and never argued its antiquated, just sharing the reality of things. An electronic system would be nice but won't happen for awhile due to a number of reasons.
Agree to disagree!
There are 5 people that work the NFA branch to deal with applications. 5 people to deal with the entire US when it comes to Class 3 weapons. That's why it is taken 6-8 weeks to get a dealer to dealer transfer and 7 months or longer for Form 4's to clear.
Lol... Just because you only hear about 5 Examiners doesn't mean there's only 5 people working there or even 5 people in that particular department. And it's only been taking 4-6 weeks for Form 3's and 5-6 months for form 4's.
When I was talking with an sot when considering a first can, he pushed the position that once you have the supressor there's little residual value in it because of the later tax stamps required to transfer and the discounted value for the item being used. Not like a standard firearm where much of the value is retained (or increases with time).
That's true. As an example, I frequently get departments wanting to trade me old silencers for new weapons. They are not worth paying the $200 tax stamp. I usually suggest they sell them to their officers and assist with the paperwork.
Actually, there are 10 examiners, a supervisor and a handful of document reviewers...and a LOT of forms to process.
Up to Jan-Feb, they were taking up to 8 months. With the addition of the document reviewers, they have cut it down to 6 months.
Then the tax stamp I recieved in 6 months on the nose along with 4 other people I know who got there's between December and February must have been flukes along with all the others I can see on nfatracker.
If you weren't making the implication that most were taking that long then you might as well have said "2010-2013 they've been taking up to 8 months..." And if you're going to try and edit quotes at least proof read since above you quoted me as saying it but it was in fact you that said it, lol...
They finally got their hired help I see. They were going for 20 examiners. Guess that Didn't make the cut
For another wild card... If you can find a cooperative law enforcement agency, you can transfer the supressor on a form 5, (tax exempt) and they can transfer it to the out of state dealer, (also exempt). Of course its another transfer, but transfers to law enforcement get expidited.
No faster than individuals to dealers though, still red tape to go through and then if it were ever discovered that you did it to bypass the tax from individual to dealer then thats a can of worms I wouldn't want to open.
