Making the most of the 30-06 versus .308 Win

[ivankonev]

The Speer Manual states that the .308 Win has the advantage over the 30-06 with lighter bullets (150 grain and less) because of its compact case. It says that bullets above 165 grain are better served by a 30-06 because of the larger case capacity of the 30-06 to "hold a lot of slow burning powder."

How would you reload the 30-06 to bring out this difference in bullet weights 165-180 grain range. Would you use a slower powder such as H4350 or IMR4350?

Do you think the 30-06 is better loaded IN GENERAL with a powder that more completely fills the case such as these slower powders?

 

[MtnCreek]

" The Speer Manual states that the .308 Win has the advantage over the 30-06 with lighter bullets (150 grain and less) because of its compact case "

I don't understand this. If loading to the same velocity, then OK, but the additional powder room in the -06 does give advantage over the .308 w/ 150gr bullets, it's just not very efficient. Correct?

 

[former naval person]

I think as MtnCreek does, that the "advantage" that the smaller case exhibits is in efficiency. The '06 will beat the .308 in speed with any weight bullet when the correct powder is used.

 

[armorpl8chikn]

Anything a 308 will do, a 30-06 will do it faster. That is simple physics. Most things a 30-06 will do, a 308 will do it more efficiently. Now compare the 30-06 to the 300Win Mag and you will end up with the same conclusions. A 30-06 will do more with heavy bullets than the 308 and likewise the 300Win will do more with heavies than the 30-06. I built my tactical rifle in 30-06 for all the reasons above. Another common myth says that a 30-06 isn't inherently accurate like a 308. My rifle will prove that wrong. The 30-06 with 190SMKs is the poor man's magnum in 30 caliber.

 

[ivankonev]

My question is more about whether there is any beneficial effect of filling the 30-06 case than comparing .308 Win to 30-06.

Given what Speer says, it would lead me to believe that 30-06 would do somewhat better with a full case of slower powder like 4350 or Reloader 19 etc. especially with heavier bullets. Reason I ask is because I've always used either Varget or IMR 4895 in my 30-06's, but they leave some empty space in the case (165 or 168 gr bullet), and I was considering switching to 4350. But I don't want to waste my time if nothing is to be gained, especially with powder in such short supply. That's why I asked.

 

[armorpl8chikn]

Ok Ivan, I kinda answered your question but now that I know where we are going I can be more specific. In short, absolutely. I use H4350 with 190SMK in my 30-06. I have reached a mile accurately with that combo. Slower burning powders will definitely squeeze more performance from a 30-06, especially with the heavier bullets. The 30-06 with the right powder and projectile, can be a solid 1300yd rifle with efficiency. I would use at least the 175 SMK bullet for 30-06, minimum.

 

[EMorr]

I have used both Varget and H4350 in the 06 experimenting with Sierra 155's, I did not exceed the published data for either combo and both provided similar accuracy and groups. I have yet to replace my chrono so I can't speak to the ES or SD of the rounds when using varget compared to a slower powder that filled the case completely. Given the availability of powder if I already had an accurate load with varget or H4895 I would not start working up a new load until components are more readily available. JMHO but save the 4350 for a heavier bullet.

 

[JGorski]

The Speer Manual states that the .308 Win has the advantage over the 30-06 with lighter bullets (150 grain and less) because of its compact case. It says that bullets above 165 grain are better served by a 30-06 because of the larger case capacity of the 30-06 to "hold a lot of slow burning powder."

How would you reload the 30-06 to bring out this difference in bullet weights 165-180 grain range. Would you use a slower powder such as H4350 or IMR4350?

Do you think the 30-06 is better loaded IN GENERAL with a powder that more completely fills the case such as these slower powders?

With bullets up to 175 the 308 is so close to the 06 that it almost makes the 06 obsolete, but yes, Id load my 06 up with 57grs 4000MR or 59grs H4350 with 175HPBT and go shootin'. And then Hodgdon comes out with a new powder, Suprform and you get another 40fps, I like my 06, but Id have to choose my two 308s if I had to make a last second decision.

 

[Deadshot2]

To me the question of which is better is moot. I love both. My 06 does a fantastic job with H4350 and bullets up to 220 gr. My .308 does fantastic with loads 178gr and less. I'm keeping both.

 

[anthonylapoint]

Berger has a 230 grain and Sierra has a 240 grain .30 cal bullet and both report bc's of over .7! Holy shit, that's crazy. To maximize the potential of these two rounds, a 30-06 would be best at it right? What is an 06 case capacity and what velocities would you be realistically looking at because pushing a 230 grain bullet with a supposed bc of like .73 at 2650-2750 fps would be a round that short of a .338 wouldn't beat. In a non magnum long action, what could you do with these two bullets? If you built a rifle around a bullet, instead of the other way around, in my head an 06 with a Berger 230 gr would be unbeatable in the non magnum world.

 

[280nosler]

As was mentioned above the 308 is all about efficiency, the 30-06 about performance. The 308 struggles wi bullets over 175 grains, the 30-06 (mine) doesn't like anything under 168 grains. My 30-06 has taken a brown bear with a 220 grain interlock at 2400 Fps, which would be a wet dream from a 308. They are like compairing a ford fusion to a f150. Sure they both take gas, but the f150 can haul more weight, it just is slower off the line and needs more time to get to speed.

The same conversation can be had about the 7mm-08, 280 Remington, and the 7mm Remington.

 

[Bill Larson]

I think as MtnCreek does, that the "advantage" that the smaller case exhibits is in efficiency. The '06 will beat the .308 in speed with any weight bullet when the correct powder is used.

Correct info..........

 

[Niles Coyote]

MontanaMarine and USSR have done a lot with the 06, loads that really put it into near win mag territory with 190’s and heavier. there are others but here is just one thread that I have bookmarked.

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/showthread.php?t=120574&p=1743907#post1743907

 

[jasin1890]

I am shooting both .308 and 30-06

I use my 30-06 with
Remington Brass (once fired thru my rifle)
Federal primers
57 grains of IMR 4350
Hornady 165 SPBT
60-61 is ab all that will fit w/o craming it in.

I think I an going to shoot 175 SMK's and varget in my .308 but i havent figured it out yet

 

[EMorr]

Berger has a 230 grain and Sierra has a 240 grain .30 cal bullet and both report bc's of over .7! Holy shit, that's crazy. To maximize the potential of these two rounds, a 30-06 would be best at it right? What is an 06 case capacity and what velocities would you be realistically looking at because pushing a 230 grain bullet with a supposed bc of like .73 at 2650-2750 fps would be a round that short of a .338 wouldn't beat. In a non magnum long action, what could you do with these two bullets? If you built a rifle around a bullet, instead of the other way around, in my head an 06 with a Berger 230 gr would be unbeatable in the non magnum world.

2750 with a 240 would be awesome but even 2650 would be pushing it in the '06, I have not used the 240's but a while back I did ask and here is what MontanaMarine had to say.

I shot a few 240gr SMKs out of mine. On paper it was easily .5 moa at 100 yards. I shot some basketball sized rocks out to 1200 yards or so and consistency was very good.

With a 26" bbl, I had 2610 fps via 55.5gr RL22,

 

[roggom]

My -06 likes 57 H4350 under a 178 Amax, but for a real fun shoot, the 155 scenar over 50 of varget. I think the 155 Scenar is better out of a short -06 vs the 308 as its difficult to get 2900 fps out of a short bbl 308.

 

[Sniper Uncle]

Ok Ivan, I kinda answered your question but now that I know where we are going I can be more specific. In short, absolutely. I use H4350 with 190SMK in my 30-06. I have reached a mile accurately with that combo. Slower burning powders will definitely squeeze more performance from a 30-06, especially with the heavier bullets. The 30-06 with the right powder and projectile, can be a solid 1300yd rifle with efficiency. I would use at least the 175 SMK bullet for 30-06, minimum.

thanks for the info, Chickn. I started with 150-168 grainers out of my 30.06 last year, but in the research I have done, I started reading that heavier is better for the distance. I started upping my pills for the .06, but haven't gotten up into the 190's yet. I'll have to do the calculations to see if I can match OBT with some of the powders I have with 190's, 200's and higher, and get some to try.
Thanks again.
Tim

 

[seabreeze133]

I have had excellent groups (around 1 MOA) in a 1903A3 w/glass bed, trigger work and a new military 4 groove barrel, Lyman 48C, using 190 SMK and a STIFF load of 2520.

seabreeze