So I know the 26" will give me best velocity however I was wondering what you all thought if I went with a 24" barrel. I am sure it will get out there but in all of your experience, does 2" of barrel make a big difference when you are out that far? I am leaning towards the 24" for my next build simply because I won't shoot that far very often, I just want to be effective when the time comes. Thanks guys
- Thread starter Jcas2012
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I have basically the same question, can I get to 1760 with a 24". I won't do it very often but I'd like a more handy 24" over a larger barrel.
You will be pushing it. A SMK 240 gr behind 75 gr of Western Magnum or 70 gr of XMR3100 (all precautions apply,reduce by 10 % and wrk up in 0.5gr from there; Fed 210m primers and bullets 002" off the lands. The first load gives me 2750fps; the second 2900(!)GPS with no pressure out of my Remmy PSS. Depending on temp and altitude, it's theoretically possible, but donT expect any miracles. If you want consistent performance at that range, I'd recommend at least a 338 Lapua, if not a CheyTac caliber/round.
with the right optics package and load either will give you the range to get there for fun. My .260 will do it fine. I'm not going to shoot a deer with it or use it for those type matches but youll be surprised what it will do if everythings right. Good luck
Do you seriously need the "increased portability" of a 24in barrel? Its a few ounces and two inches. Considering how much you want to push this thing I don't see why you would even consider the 24in.
If this was Benchresthide.com I'd agree but I'm not the first guy, and niether is the OP, to ask about the shortest barrel they can get away with and hit a specific range. When you start adding a brake or a can it all adds up so yes, I want it as short as possible.
If a short barrel is what you're looking for than You'll get the same velocity out of a 22 inch barrel chambered in 300 WSM as you will with a 24 inch barrel chambered in 300 Win Mag. Also you would have a non belted cartridge and a short action that has extra rigidity. I'm getting 3150fps out of a 22 inch barrel with 66gr of reloader-17 behind a 165gr bullet. According to Alliant's website that still to grains from Max! I probably could push it too close to 3300.
The 300 WSM outperforms a 300 Win Mag all across the board until you get to a 26+ inch barrel and 200 + grain bullets.
The 300 WSM outperforms a 300 Win Mag all across the board until you get to a 26+ inch barrel and 200 + grain bullets.
Choosing the right bullet will be far more critical to hitting at a mile, than the difference betwee 24/26" bbl.
Then the environmentals, particularly elevation and wind.
I've stretched my 22" heavy 30-06 to a mile with decent results, pushing 208 AMax at 2720 fps, at 4500' elevation. It takes 74-75 moa most of the time depending on temp.
I've seen jrob shoot his 22" 300 WinMag to a mile with excellent consistency, launching 208s. I think he was getting 2850 fps, or so. Maybe he will see this and chime in.
A 24" 300 WinMag should easily beat my ballistics by 200 fps.
Then the environmentals, particularly elevation and wind.
I've stretched my 22" heavy 30-06 to a mile with decent results, pushing 208 AMax at 2720 fps, at 4500' elevation. It takes 74-75 moa most of the time depending on temp.
I've seen jrob shoot his 22" 300 WinMag to a mile with excellent consistency, launching 208s. I think he was getting 2850 fps, or so. Maybe he will see this and chime in.
A 24" 300 WinMag should easily beat my ballistics by 200 fps.
Exactly, I wanna take this rifle to the field and hunt a little with it not just benchrest so I think 24 will be enough for me. Thanks for all the help guys I appreciate it.
Just spent the last year researching this same question. I had Kreiger build me a 5r 26" m40 contour .300 win mag for 1 mile shooting. With a 210 smk and good ol vihtavori powder the bullet will still be supersonic. My hunting rifle is a remmy 700 .300 win mag with a 24" barrel and my ballistic software tells me with a 180 gr sbt it will be just under supersonic at a mile. I handload for all my rifles. 200 yard 0 my hunting rifle will need 75.3 moa @ 1609m. The Kreiger will need 77 moa @ 1609m. I think the 24" will be just fine. Don't forget the brake for it. Makes shooting a lot more enjoyable. Good luck and good shooting!
Informative...
Ok, I'll bite. Judging by that vague response I'm assuming your looking for one of us to say 'If not barrel length, then what?'. LOL So, if not barrel length, then what? Cause what little I do know, I know barrel length ultimately dictates potential muzzle velocity, which as we all know, dictates potential round performance. Yes, I could load really hot rounds but I'd rather not wear out a barrel every couple months.
Ok, I'll bite. Judging by that vague response I'm assuming your looking for one of us to say 'If not barrel length, then what?'. LOL So, if not barrel length, then what? Cause what little I do know, I know barrel length ultimately dictates potential muzzle velocity, which as we all know, dictates potential round performance. Yes, I could load really hot rounds but I'd rather not wear out a barrel every couple months.
Montana summed it up well, above.Informative...
Ok, I'll bite. Judging by that vague response I'm assuming your looking for one of us to say 'If not barrel length, then what?'. LOL So, if not barrel length, then what? Cause what little I do know, I know barrel length ultimately dictates potential muzzle velocity, which as we all know, dictates potential round performance. Yes, I could load really hot rounds but I'd rather not wear out a barrel every couple months.
It's not about barrel length because it's not about muzzle velocity. Barrels don't wear out at the rifling; so muzzle velocity isn't what wears barrels. And muzzle velocity doesn't 'dictate potential round performance' either, so it's not about loading 'really hot rounds'.
There have been several articles and tests done over the last 30-40 years to test the added velocity that you can get per inch of barrel length. a quick search turned up this one: No real loss: the relationship between barrel length, velocity and accuracy. - Free Online Library
The American Rifleman has done a couple on a couple different calibers. The 40-60 fps/ inch in the .300 WM seems about right. Keep in mind that accuracy is better out of a stiffer(shorter) barrel. Which is what you want for your mile shots.
Some further reading here: Lilja Precision Rifle Barrels - Articles: Barrel Lenghts and Velocities in the 338/378 Weatherby Magnum
Lilja Precision Rifle Barrels - Articles: The Ideal Barrel For A .308 Caliber Tactical Rifle
The American Rifleman has done a couple on a couple different calibers. The 40-60 fps/ inch in the .300 WM seems about right. Keep in mind that accuracy is better out of a stiffer(shorter) barrel. Which is what you want for your mile shots.
Some further reading here: Lilja Precision Rifle Barrels - Articles: Barrel Lenghts and Velocities in the 338/378 Weatherby Magnum
Lilja Precision Rifle Barrels - Articles: The Ideal Barrel For A .308 Caliber Tactical Rifle
A 24 inch will do every thing you want it to do. For game, that barrel will provide you with all the usable range that the bullet will function and perform at.
Read the Thread.
I have shot both 24 and 26 inch barrels on the same action at 1 mile. They both preformed about the same. There are so many other things to consider other than length. Accurate powder charge, bullet BC, case capacity, wind, temp, elevation, just to name a few. I still don't know what I do right and wrong on some days.
If chewing gum isn't important, why do four out of five dentists choose Dentyne?
It is an analogy: A cognitive process of transferring information or meaning from a particular subject to another subject.
LOL! Not exactly: That's the process of transferring money from one project to another. That's different.
Graham, you are funny.....and I would bet a pretty good guy. I'm outa here.....
M
milo 2.0
Guest
WOW, I guess Roy Weatherby's line of thinking and cartridges was kinda dumbass then. I ordered a new barrel last week, my accuracy is suffering, I attributed it to the 2" of freebore at the throat. I'm happy to know now it's rotting from the outside in, fucking sun, wind and rain!
They are dealing with bullet constraints ... 155's... and the need at the international level of using ammo provided by the host country.
Also ,for iron sight matches sight radius is your friend!!
Bottom line to me is they have some different concerns than tac shooters.
Montana Marine said it well; no problem getting to a mile with a shorter barrel .300. It all depends on your temp and elevation. Here in Colorado at 7500 ft. on an 80degree day with warm ammo, a friend and I each made 3rd round hits on a 10" target at 1740 yards with my DPMS LR-308 24" stainless barrel using a 168 grain amax at 2660 fps. There's a video on youtube of a couple guys hitting steel targets at 1950 yds. consistently with a .260Rem! Our rifles/ammo are usually more capable then we give them credit for I've found.
With the right conditions and load a 24" .300 is EASILY a 1 mile gun even at lower elevations.
With the right conditions and load a 24" .300 is EASILY a 1 mile gun even at lower elevations.
I like warm and humid: Both are gain-range conditions.
MM is exactly right, but then he shoots a lot more than he posts.... and then he only posts about what he knows.
I got over 2900 in Win brass with 208 AMAX's out of my 22" but brass life was less than optimum. At 2875 in Fed./Nosler brass I lost count of the firings (well over 10) and as he stated, 1 mile was not much of a challenge. The actual usable range of that setup was a LOT further, but then we have 5-6000 ft DA's here at times.
If I was to do it again, I'd probably build a 24" and have it chambered for the Berger 215's and run 338 CIP mags to handle to OAL to get that long bullet out of the case. That combo would be a nice handling rig with 1.5 mile potential.
John
Have a Sako TRG. The barrel was 26 and shot very well, consistently under or around .3. Then I cut the barrel down to 20" and now it shoots .17 to .24 almost all the time. So probably the theory of harmonics came into play as the barrel is now probably more ridged? Now obviously with terminal velocity for a given projectile there is an entire science behind what may be the perfect barrel length. And longer may not always be better. Some will now tell you that the old axiom of longer barrel the better for accuracy and velocity no longer applies.
The World Championships are next month in Raton. These are the best long distance, known distance shooters on the planet. An equipment list should be available including barrel length......lets see how many of these guys shoot distance with sub 26" barrels. Fair enough?
I run a 24" 300wm. I've never had a reason to increase the length. I'm running 220smk at 2850fps with powders like h1000 and h4831sc. Like everyone has said previously. Altitude plays a big role. The difference between my normal range time at quantico range4 at 250 ft over sea level was way different at 10000ft last year when I shot out to these ranges including 1760yds in colorado. The deviation between altitudes was about 8/10th of a mil difference at 1000yds about 3moa faster. I was picking up roughly about 200fps more at a 1000 and beyond out to 1760.
You might find this interesting
From Rifleshootersmag, Sept/Oct 2003, .300 Win Mag, 180-grain bullets and RL-22 powder:
Barrel..Velocity
27".......3055 fps
26".......3031
25".......3024
24".......3003
23".......2984
22".......2960
Negligible difference. Keep in mind this is with a 180gr projectile. Numbers could vary more with 210's. who knows.
From Rifleshootersmag, Sept/Oct 2003, .300 Win Mag, 180-grain bullets and RL-22 powder:
Barrel..Velocity
27".......3055 fps
26".......3031
25".......3024
24".......3003
23".......2984
22".......2960
Negligible difference. Keep in mind this is with a 180gr projectile. Numbers could vary more with 210's. who knows.
That's funny, with my weapons and reloads and my Crony, the FPS went the other way. That's also shooting at the same spot. At least with 190's and 200 SMK. The 208 Hornady did well too. Been playing with the loads for some time. I well go with what works for me. It does it well at a 1,000 yards. By the way my 190's are little over 3,000 FPS at muzzle. That's from a 26'' barrel.
By "other way" do you mean the Fps web up with decreasing barrel length? I find that very surprising in a magnum or any rifle for that matter.
This is the dumbest shit I've ever seen posted. WHO GIVES A SHIT! A bullet with the right bc , more importantly , the right shooter can hit a mile. Barrel length is best kept in the porn business.
That's a great criteria to judge a rifle by if all you do is back your SUV up to the shooting bench. I walk 4-6 miles per day with my rifle while hunting and that changes my criteria considerably.
Tagged, good read gents.
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