Ownership of pistol length uppers

[svxwilson]

I have herd conflicting information on this. I have herd you have to register it with the lower you mount it to. Someone else told me you need to have a special permit for it, and another individual told me only active duty law and military can own them. You can purchase them on gun broker without a ffl. I have never seen them for sale in a local shop otherwise I would ask them about it.
Thank you for your knowledge in advance.

 

[Neo]

You can have a upper with a barrel shorter than 16" as long as:
A) You have a pistol lower or
B) If you don't have a pistol lower then you can't have any rifle lowers or complete rifles in your possession. If you do you can be charged with intent to manufacture an NFA weapon.

 

[svxwilson]

K... what a pain! the more I read on it and the requirements for it makes me desire it less.

 

[rjacobs]

if you don't have a pistol or sbr lower why do you want a short upper?

uppers of any length are not regulated parts. no registration, no requirement to be a cop to buy, nothing.

constructive intent is debated daily and I think it's way over blown. I personally don't mess with it and don't recommend you temp fate, but I have also never heard of the atf coming after somebody that simply had one in their possession.

if I was waiting on a form 1 to come back and found a great deal on a short upper I would have no problem buying it.

throwing a 30 dollar pistol receiver extension on your lower is also not a bad idea.

 

[Southbreeze]

throwing a 30 dollar pistol receiver extension on your lower is also not a bad idea.

You are wrong for that, it is not a bad idea.....it's an illegal and terrible idea.

SVX, You CAN NOT rig a lower, that was purchased as a rifle, to use a pistol upper.

You can buy a stripped lower reciever, AS NEW ONLY, and build your own pistol.....and have 15 pistol length lowers laying around and there are no legality issues. Even if the lower hasn't been built yet. That doesn't mean buy a second hand, stripped lower, if it was ever sold/classed as a rifle, it cannot be used as a pistol.

NEO, above is 100% correct - "B) If you don't have a pistol lower then you can't have any rifle lowers or complete rifles in your possession. If you do you can be charged with intent to manufacture an NFA weapon"

meaning - in your house, on the same property, in your possession.

When you purchase your lower from your FFL; I would strongly encourage you to have him list it on your form as "pistol" or just "stripped" lower. I have two of the spikes tactical "zombie killer" lowers that I'm building into pistols when I get home. one in 223, one in 45acp and a 300 blk.

It's not a bad deal, you just have to pay attention to detail. I've got a few suppressors at the house and waiting on a SBR/Suppressor & AOW tax stamps now. Mind your manners and don't be a wingnut and it'll never be an issue.

Cheers,
Breeze

 

[svxwilson]

You are wrong for that, it is not a bad idea.....it's an illegal and terrible idea.

SVX, You CAN NOT rig a lower, that was purchased as a rifle, to use a pistol upper.

You can buy a stripped lower reciever, AS NEW ONLY, and build your own pistol.....and have 15 pistol length lowers laying around and there are no legality issues. Even if the lower hasn't been built yet. That doesn't mean buy a second hand, stripped lower, if it was ever sold/classed as a rifle, it cannot be used as a pistol.

NEO, above is 100% correct - "B) If you don't have a pistol lower then you can't have any rifle lowers or complete rifles in your possession. If you do you can be charged with intent to manufacture an NFA weapon"

meaning - in your house, on the same property, in your possession.

When you purchase your lower from your FFL; I would strongly encourage you to have him list it on your form as "pistol" or just "stripped" lower. I have two of the spikes tactical "zombie killer" lowers that I'm building into pistols when I get home. one in 223, one in 45acp and a 300 blk.

It's not a bad deal, you just have to pay attention to detail. I've got a few suppressors at the house and waiting on a SBR/Suppressor & AOW tax stamps now. Mind your manners and don't be a wingnut and it'll never be an issue.

Cheers,
Breeze

So essentially I would need one designated lower for my pistol rifle uppers. The lower would have to be one I purchased as brand new equipment without a upper? And it would also need to have a pistol stock. As long as these requirements are filled I would be ok? Just trying to clarify.

 

[slothlacrosse]

There are a lot of rules regarding what you can and can't do with a pistol (AR or other).

I'd just put a lower on a Form 1. Once you get it back, you can run any upper you want on it.

 

[rjacobs]

You are wrong for that, it is not a bad idea.....it's an illegal and terrible idea.

SVX, You CAN NOT rig a lower, that was purchased as a rifle, to use a pistol upper.

You can buy a stripped lower reciever, AS NEW ONLY, and build your own pistol.....and have 15 pistol length lowers laying around and there are no legality issues. Even if the lower hasn't been built yet. That doesn't mean buy a second hand, stripped lower, if it was ever sold/classed as a rifle, it cannot be used as a pistol.

NEO, above is 100% correct - "B) If you don't have a pistol lower then you can't have any rifle lowers or complete rifles in your possession. If you do you can be charged with intent to manufacture an NFA weapon"

meaning - in your house, on the same property, in your possession.

Did I ever say anywhere to do it to a lower he currently has? You put words in my mouth and then basically called me stupid. The OP doesnt even say he owns an AR of any kind.

People ALL THE TIME take a lower, make it into a pistol, and then submit a Form 1 for it to turn it into an SBR.

If you started with a rifle lower, yes, it has to ALWAYS stay a rifle, but you can take a receiver(transferred as a receiver) turn it into a pistol, then into an SBR and if you want you could turn it back into a pistol.

And I will still say I dont know(or have heard) of ANYBODY who has been prosecuted for constructive intent with short uppers in their possession. I am sure there are some idiots that have been because they go waiving the shit around and making a show of it, but if you were legit waiting on a Form 1 or were legit in the process of collecting parts to build a pistol and you happened on a good deal on a short upper, I would have no problem buying one and letting it set in the safe until I was ready to put it on a lower. Constructive intent gets WAY overblown like the ATF is going to send helicopters to your house as soon as UPS delivers your upper. It just doesnt happen(unless you are an idiot and start waiving that shit around).

 

[plong]

One correction to the above: per BATF the correct designation for a stripped lower is "other" if the FFL knows what they are doing that is how they will list it when they transfer it to you. You cannot designate a stripped lower as pistol (or rifle, for that matter) based upon your intended use, the designation is based upon its state when it leaves the FFL. That's what make those overpriced pistol-marked lowers such a joke.

 

[rjacobs]

One correction to the above: per BATF the correct designation for a stripped lower is "other" if the FFL knows what they are doing that is how they will list it when they transfer it to you. You cannot designate a stripped lower as pistol (or rifle, for that matter) based upon your intended use, the designation is based upon its state when it leaves the FFL. That's what make those overpriced pistol-marked lowers such a joke.

"receiver" is a choice on the 4473(I just checked the latest version April 2012). I dont remember when it changed, but it changed over a year ago, maybe 2 years ago. A "receiver" can only be transferred to somebody over 21 because it could be made into a pistol. Prior to that though, yes, they should have transferred as "other".

 

[plong]

Looks like the form revision took effect April 2012... guess that proves I'm getting old... as my wife keeps saying.... Point here is you don't list a receiver as a "pistol" on a 4473.

 

[rjacobs]

Looks like the form revision took effect April 2012... guess that proves I'm getting old... as my wife keeps saying.... Point here is you don't list a receiver as a "pistol" on a 4473.

I think that form revision was for adding the "hispanic or non-hispanic" section. I think the "receiver" change came at least 2 years ago. I know when I bought some receivers in 2011 they were transferred as "receivers" and not "other".

If its already built with a pistol extension you can transfer as a pistol, but I am not sure if its mandatory or not. Same as if its already built with a rifle extension and stock its transferred as a rifle.

 

[Southbreeze]

Did I ever say anywhere to do it to a lower he currently has? You put words in my mouth and then basically called me stupid. The OP doesnt even say he owns an AR of any kind.

People ALL THE TIME take a lower, make it into a pistol, and then submit a Form 1 for it to turn it into an SBR.

If you started with a rifle lower, yes, it has to ALWAYS stay a rifle, but you can take a receiver(transferred as a receiver) turn it into a pistol, then into an SBR and if you want you could turn it back into a pistol.

And I will still say I dont know(or have heard) of ANYBODY who has been prosecuted for constructive intent with short uppers in their possession. I am sure there are some idiots that have been because they go waiving the shit around and making a show of it, but if you were legit waiting on a Form 1 or were legit in the process of collecting parts to build a pistol and you happened on a good deal on a short upper, I would have no problem buying one and letting it set in the safe until I was ready to put it on a lower. Constructive intent gets WAY overblown like the ATF is going to send helicopters to your house as soon as UPS delivers your upper. It just doesnt happen(unless you are an idiot and start waiving that shit around).

First, you didn't specify a whole lot. If the O.P. is asking a question like this, he may not be up to speed on any of the ATF stuff. If he doesn't get a form 1, he could get into trouble. probably not, but could. I thought there were enough loose ends in your broad statements that it was worth commenting.

Next, I didn't put any words in your mouth or basically call you stupid. If you feel that way, my apologies.

Lastly, my opinion is different than yours, yes? So which one is right? Grow a little bit of skin; and wind your neck in.

Cheers,
Breeze

 

[Southbreeze]

Oops on the double post....not sure how that one happened.