308 Holy Grail Bullet?

[excaliber]

After going through Applied Ballistics book by Bryan Litz, seems to me that the 168gr Match Hybrid Target is the bullet that 308 shooters
has been looking for. For years the 175gr Sierra Matchking was the go-to bullet for the distant shooting. Now that has changed. After running
the numbers, the 168gr Hybrid bullet has the 175gr Sierra looking not as sexy. After shooting Berger bullets for many years, I can honestly
say that they are on top of things. Sierra makes good bullets but seems like they don`t want to change. Shoot Better, Shoot Berger!

 

[coach4christ]

Read the same thing. Love my 155 scenars though. My current load is pushing them right at 3000 fps. On a good day I get sub minute groups at 800. Hard to change when you get comfortable with something. But hey, I may try them. Gives me an excuse to burn a little powder.

Coach

 

[DaJudge]

Haven't read that yet, do you remember the BC on the 168's

 

[garandman]

168gr Hornady A-max

 

[excaliber]

.519. But you have to look at the form factor as well as drag. Just because the BC is higher for another brand of bullet
doesn`t mean it`s a better bullet. The 308 doesn`t have the gas for bullets really more than 190gr. Read the book.
Very good job Bryan! I have learned alot.

 

[surfr716]

155 gr palma smk (2156), or 178 gr amax.

 

[jwsnydes]

175 SMK is sweet sweet bullet for me.

 

[mobius38]

How about the Hornady 178 gn HPBT .530 BC is not to bad!

Hornady Manufacturing Company :: Bullets :: Rifle :: Choose by Caliber :: .308 30 CAL :: 30 Cal .308 178 GR BTHP Match™

 

[lead ƒarmer]

How about the Hornady 178 gn HPBT .530 BC is not to bad!

Hornady Manufacturing Company :: Bullets :: Rifle :: Choose by Caliber :: .308 30 CAL :: 30 Cal .308 178 GR BTHP Match™

This is what I use. With limited testing they were shooting better than the 178 amax

 

[Gofaster23]

I've always had excellent results with my Lapua brass/ Varget/ 175 SMK combo but if I were to shoot .308 competitively I would look at the Berger 185 Juggernaut.

 

[mobius38]

This is what I use. With limited testing they were shooting better than the 178 amax

I am about to start load development on those. Care to share what your using?

 

[lead ƒarmer]

I am about to start load development on those. Care to share what your using?

Savage 10FP .308
Hornady Match 178 BTHP @2.205" ogive length (.02" off lands)
43.0 grs Varget
Federal Brass
Federal 210M primer

I have only been out to the range twice but this load has shown much promise with my last 5 shot group at 300 yards measuring .9" I haven't run long range velocity tests to make sure, but this load with the amax is around 2660 out of my 24" tube.

 

[glock63]

I've always had excellent results with my Lapua brass/ Varget/ 175 SMK combo but if I were to shoot .308 competitively I would look at the Berger 185 Juggernaut.

I am about to begin load workup using this bullet in lapua brass pushed by RL17. I am expecting good things.

 

[FailureToStart]

I only work with factory loads, so I'm probably not getting 100% of the juice from my squeeze.

I don't shoot the 500yd+ distances that some of you folks do, and that may make a huge difference. For the ranges I work with, the factory loaded Hornady 168gr A-Max is pretty hard to beat. My precision .308s are a factory Remington 700 AAC-SD and a 16" LaRue OBR. I tested roughly 12 other factory match loadings and didn't find anything that was consistantly better than the factory loaded Hornady 168gr A-Max. For a laugh, the Prvi 'Match' 168gr HPBT was consistently 4+MOA and their bulk 147(?)gr Ball came in around 1.75MOA. The 168gr A-Max loaded by both Hornady and Black Hills were roughly the same at around 3/4MOA out of both guns as long as I did my part. Various companies with various other bullets were fairly close but on average they basically came out in a statistical tie. The Hornady 168gr A-Max was fairly inexpensive and I could get lots of it, so that's what I got.

I like the idea of having a round for 'hard' targets - much like what LE or .mil would refer to as a "barrier blind" round. I tried several and most absolutely sucked - Hornady Interbond, Remington Corelokt, even the fabled Federal TBBC - all of them were no better than 1.5MOA. One of the Federal loads was actualy on the plus side of 7MOA - it was so bad I shot a 20 round group to get a reasonable measurement with a break at 10rds for a 5rd A-Max group to make sure my gun wasn't fucked. When I was searching around on the Black Hills website for what they had to offer I stumbled upon their 180gr Nosler Accubond. Sure, why not.

Ok these things are fucking scary accurate - as in they will consistently turn in better groups through my rifles than any of the 'match' ammo I've fed them. I've probably got every bit of 1000rds through both of the guns combined since I started this last year and they were consistantly 3/4MOA guns if I was doing my part. With under 200 rounds of BH 180gr Nosler Accubonds through these guns I've turned in a (going off memory) .55MOA with the R700 and .61MOA with the OBR. I switched back to 168gr A-Max and they open back up to ~3/4MOA. Unfortunately they are expensive as hell, nearly impossible to get even before the crisis and a 180gr bonded freight train. If I didn't worry about significant over-penetration issues and could get them for a reasonable price, I'd shoot nothing but.

 

[Chanonry]

.519. But you have to look at the form factor as well as drag. Just because the BC is higher for another brand of bullet
doesn`t mean it`s a better bullet. The 308 doesn`t have the gas for bullets really more than 190gr. Read the book.
Very good job Bryan! I have learned alot.

Did I misread the tables? I thought the 155 Berger Hybrid had the lowest form factor? I ran some JBM analyses and there was no benefit (for me) over the 155 until you got to 185 hybrid even then it was marginal. The 155 is a beast as it has a great form factor and you can launch at high velocity.

That's what I found anyway. It may be that my issue is that I can get decent velocities for the 155 and 185 weights but the 165 loads have always seemed slow. Maybe I need to switch powder. Whatever.

 

[widowmaker5]

As faster twist rates in production barrels appear and options for faster twist rates from certain custom barrel manufacturers become more of a reality finally, and in addition more efficient projectiles( BC speaking) are finally starting to be produced(Berger a big one 4 example) will eventually become somewhat of the game changer of long range shooting in my opinion and experiences. Todd Hodnett said it first in his articles on twist rate and high BC bullets but I'm one who had my own experiences with testing these things (140gr. Berger VLD SSA boxed match ammo,2653fps chronoed, in a DPMS 1/11 twist 20"HBar 6.8SPC II AR which I shoot from 100-800+meters with at my uncles in Utah, yes 800+meters lazed,yes with a 6.8SPC, and to stop the questions before they start, if you don't believe me the ammo is available from Silver State Armory and a 1/11 twist will stabilize them The Berger 140gr. VLD (.487 BC) for the 6.8 guys is the closest thing to a precision long range round, which until now was held by Hornady's 120gr. SST(.400 BC) to the Grendel' guys who til now had the BC advantage of 6.5 bullets in there favor until Berger made a move. Now 6.8 guys can try Grendel induced range with similar trag plus more FPE. Thanks Berger for these high BC bullets! Point is, that is 6.8 SPC, and that is a far less common caliber for long range shooting compared to say a .308 win. obviously, it got upgraded because of a relatively higher BC and heavier grained bullet that didn't exist until just recently. Even higher BC projectiles for 308 winchester is just in due time. So anyways, I'll just sit back and wait to see what the short-comings of the future has to bring us all in new projectiles and twist rate experimentation, including a relatively high BC .308 win. bullet I bet, if not a few. Wait and see, Just my .02 cents

 

[bm11]

I know Bryan is a big fan of Berger bullets, but someone will have to break down for me why these new bullets are king, or even why the 175 SMK is the "old king."

175's are great and guys absolutely love them for some reason, but they have been getting beat for years by the 155 Scenar. Not just on paper but time and time again at distance, I have seen side by side the 155 Scenar experiencing less drop and less drift and as a result, higher hit percentages, than the 175 SMK.

I have no doubt that there is something out now which beats the 175 SMK. What I would like to know is how it beats the 155 Scenar, which has been beating the 175 for years (even though a vast majority of the dogmatic practical shooting crowd ignores everything that isn't a Sierra made bullet.)