Looking at getting a new rifle built for shooting sniper challenge competitions and shooting the Precision Rifle Series. I have all the parts and its ready to be built, but unsure of what 6.5mm type round to use. Need some help with pros and cons between the 6.5cm and the 260 rem
- Thread starter 6.5creedmoor
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260 just because Lapua makes brass. Or 6.5x47Lapua. Hornady brass isn`t no where near the quality of Lapua. The performance is of all three is similar.
There's no appreciable difference between them, aside from the nuances like brass manufacturer etc etc.
In better times, 6.5CM had readily available factory match ammo for ~$25-30 box, which was nice for those that didn't reload.
As things are now, it really doesn't matter.
Toss a coin, play eenie meenie, or just decide which looks cooler (6.5, IMHO), or has a cooler name.
In better times, 6.5CM had readily available factory match ammo for ~$25-30 box, which was nice for those that didn't reload.
As things are now, it really doesn't matter.
Toss a coin, play eenie meenie, or just decide which looks cooler (6.5, IMHO), or has a cooler name.
Depends on mag system you are going to run. Standard AICS magazine, advantage 6.5 Creedmoor as it gives up little to the 260 when mag limited to 2.860" OAL. Run modified AICS magazine where you can seat the higher BC bullets out (properly configured chamber) to 2.980" OAL and the 260 will easily outpace the 6.5 Creedmoor.
You'll be able to buy "cheap" 6.5 CM match ammo, not so with 260 or 6.5X47L.
You'll be able to buy "cheap" 6.5 CM match ammo, not so with 260 or 6.5X47L.
Ballistically they are the same. The .260 won't "outpace" the Creedmoor. I am getting 2930fps with a 140 AMAX and no pressure in the Creedmoor. It runs plenty fast.
OP you just need to pick the one that fits your needs the best. Hornady brass for the Creedmoor is excellent and loads very accurate ammo as is the factory ammo, which is all I shoot in matches and it's never let me down. You don't need the worshiped Lapua brass made by God himself and brought down the mountain by Moses to load accurate ammo. Other calibers have proven that. If you like Lapua and feel the need to use it then the .260 would be what you want. If you wanted accurate and relatively inexpensive factory ammo as well as wanting to load then the Creedmoor is an excellent option.
Just wondering though why did you choose your log in name here?
OP you just need to pick the one that fits your needs the best. Hornady brass for the Creedmoor is excellent and loads very accurate ammo as is the factory ammo, which is all I shoot in matches and it's never let me down. You don't need the worshiped Lapua brass made by God himself and brought down the mountain by Moses to load accurate ammo. Other calibers have proven that. If you like Lapua and feel the need to use it then the .260 would be what you want. If you wanted accurate and relatively inexpensive factory ammo as well as wanting to load then the Creedmoor is an excellent option.
Just wondering though why did you choose your log in name here?
Creedmoor gets my vote as well, due to be able to fit 140gr loads in AICS mags.
^^^ this. I went 260 for the lapua brass and because i only reload and have no use for factory ammo.
The Hornady 6.5 creed match ammo shots lights out, is still semi available and affordable. If factory ammo needs to be an option, creed is the no brainer.
This^^^^^^^^^^^^^gets my vote. Currently waiting on my 6.5cm "phone call" from the smith.
My buddies wore out the creedmoor with factory 140 amax this year on whitetails. I was so impressed I got my own. Almost no recoil, dead accurate and plenty of kill. When you can get it the cm ammo seems to be less expensive
Just to muddy your decision making process up and reinforce the rest of Rob's post read this article.
6.5mm Shootout: .260 Remington vs. 6.5x47 Lapua vs. 6.5 Creedmoor
I like the Creedmoor but for my reasons, others like the 260 for their reasons. A few oddballs even like the Lapua...
+1 on the 6.5 Creedmoor. I have a GAP built one and I love it. Hornady has great brass for it and Nosler is starting to produce it as well....others will follow suit as the caliber is gaining massive amounts of popularity.
I appreciate and agree with what Rob has said about Lapua brass and from my own personal experience I can also say that you can make great ammo from other brass manufactures if you put the time into it.
I think the fact that there is great factory ammo available makes it even more attractive......especially since they put the load recipe on the box.
I appreciate and agree with what Rob has said about Lapua brass and from my own personal experience I can also say that you can make great ammo from other brass manufactures if you put the time into it.
I think the fact that there is great factory ammo available makes it even more attractive......especially since they put the load recipe on the box.
Great line!
I am also in the same boat, looking to get a 6.5 soon. I have the bullets, powder, and primers. I have read a few things that give an advantage and disadvantage to both sides of this coin. I also happen to have lots of .308 Federal brass from the gold medal 175's. This is the part I get fuzzy on because I am just reading stuff online but I heard it was easier to turn .308 into .260 than it is to turn it into 6.5CM. if that is the case Im choosing the .260, I am open to thoughts on that, and then maybe this will help you in your decision as well.
just my opinion, with a screen name of "6.5creedmoor" you should probably buy that one..
Great line!
I am also in the same boat, looking to get a 6.5 soon. I have the bullets, powder, and primers. I have read a few things that give an advantage and disadvantage to both sides of this coin. I also happen to have lots of .308 Federal brass from the gold medal 175's. This is the part I get fuzzy on because I am just reading stuff online but I heard it was easier to turn .308 into .260 than it is to turn it into 6.5CM. if that is the case Im choosing the .260, I am open to thoughts on that, and then maybe this will help you in your decision as well.
just my opinion, with a screen name of "6.5creedmoor" you should probably buy that one..
I think turning 308 brass into 260 creates a thick neck, so you would have to turn the necks.
6.5 brass and factory ammo has been a pain in the ass to find lately. It is out there but if you see it, grab it.
read the specs on the AICS mags, they will fit a C.O.L. of up to 2.88"
scouring the internet and looking at more damn loads than I could even think to count I only saw a few loads that were that length or more. Most loads for both the 6.5 CM and the .260 Rem ranged between 2.78" and 2.84" meaning that both will easily fit into an AICS magazine.
on a separate note from that, I have also found that on average the .260 Rem is getting higher velocities with less pressure. not enough to go crazy over but none the less the data was there. (about 80fps more and 500-1,000 less psi)
also several sites were showing that the 142gr SMK was averaging faster velocities, less pressure, and a higher BC at distance than the AMAX. now we all know every rifle likes a different load and bullet combo, but lets not label the AMAX as the un-contended champion.
While we are discussing 260's I may as well throw 260 Ackley in there.
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If you look at the BCs the 140 AMAX at .585 and the 142 at .595 above 2850 and .580 between 2850 and 2400fps looks like a push to me.
You can get the 142 going 80fps faster in a .260 than a 6.5 Creemoor 140 AMAX with less pressure? Lets see that testing. Or is that just internet data? There are too many variables with barrels, chambers and loads to give one any edge ballistically over the other. Any hope to do so is just wasted time. As I said my 26.5" 6.5 Creedmoor is getting 2930fps with the 140 AMAX and no pressure signs. Can the .260 push the 142 at 3010fps with no pressure? Anyone out there have one that does that?
The .260 AI can cause feeding problems with the sharp shoulders and usually isn't worth the extra effort for what people use them for here. Ask the guy whose picture you used why he went back to the .260 from the AI for tactical matches.
That is good to know. Are there similar issues with all Ackley rounds?
I bought creedmoor simply because of availability of excellent factory ammunition. From the looks of it, 260 factory loads are far inferior to the Hornady Creedmoor factory loads. Then I got into reloading, and it doesn't matter to me now as I just load up my own. I've got over 6 loads now on some cases and still have great case neck concentricity without annealing. So, to me, the quality of factory ammo was my deciding factor, now it doesn't matter and either would would well. Nosler is suppose to be pumping out more stuff for Creedmoor soon as well....I'm just a weekend shooter so take my post with a grain of salt.....
The 6.5 Creedmoor has grown in popularity very much since I got mine a few years ago. At that time people were saying it wouldn't last. I don't hear that anymore.
Whatever advantage you think Lapua brass would get you in the .260 may be a moot point soon enough, or, at least maybe by the time our Messiah in Chief leaves the White House and things get back to normal or thereabouts. Until then reloading components and ammo will be scarce either way.
I doubt you will get any valid points here that should sway you on this decision because there just isn't much to differentiate between the two. Like has been said, ballistics are very similar.
Older and slightly larger vs. more modern and better fitting case designs.
You will need to make a choice and just go with it. Either way you're going to love it.
Whatever advantage you think Lapua brass would get you in the .260 may be a moot point soon enough, or, at least maybe by the time our Messiah in Chief leaves the White House and things get back to normal or thereabouts. Until then reloading components and ammo will be scarce either way.
I doubt you will get any valid points here that should sway you on this decision because there just isn't much to differentiate between the two. Like has been said, ballistics are very similar.
Older and slightly larger vs. more modern and better fitting case designs.
You will need to make a choice and just go with it. Either way you're going to love it.
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If you reload, the differences between the two is a wash. If you don't, go with the CM. I reload, but went with the CM because I like the flexibility it affords. Since your user name is 6.5Creedmore I think your decision has already been made, unless you're just trying to stir up the pot with another one of these 260 vs 6.5CM/ Harris vs. Atlas / Templar vs Surgeon type threads.
260 will walk away from 6.5 Creedmoor when you get bullet up out of case. Downside is you need 3" OAL or so for 260 to really shine. I've got both 6.5 CM and 260, there is no way 6.5 CM keeps up. 6.5 CM is a very solid round, well supported by Hornady with factory match ammo. If you don't reload, 6.5 CM is clearly the way to go. If you do reload, 260 in chamber that is set up to allow BT/bearing to be at N/S you gain enough case capacity to be well ahead of the 6.5 CM.
Alias reverted to my original name when software changed, I've got one too many irons in fire to change alias back to McCourt Munitions.
i have both..equiped with both bartlein. i must say that 1 grain different bacause of case size gives me more to play on powder charge..wihout compressing powder the 260 comfotably with his load pushing max speed...i dont know if im like those parent dont matter what childrens do they still have one own fav ..maybe im being bias but i must say my 260 shoot better than my CM specialy from 600 to 1100yd
..maybe im being bias but i must say my 260 shoot better than my CM specialy from 600 to 1100yd
i shoot a 260 AI in tactical matches. i'd do it again if i had it to do over. honestly, i don't know why more people don't use it.
the biggest advantage is that you never have to trim. i have as many as 12 firings on a few of the cases i still use in matches and still don't need to trim.
the biggest advantage is that you never have to trim. i have as many as 12 firings on a few of the cases i still use in matches and still don't need to trim.
Yes, the shoulder angle is not optimal for fast bolt cycling like is required in tactical matches. does it give you more capacity, does it greatly increase brass stability (IE case growth), yes, is it worth the trade off? To me, and me only, Not in a tac match, but it's fine for strictly hunting or slow fire rifles, but again it requires additional case prep etc. But, who knows, maybe you will just love the Ackley. YMMV.
Basically, it's like the old saying, "everyone has a belly button" Get what you think you want and don't look back.
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100-120 fps faster with 260 vs 6.5 CM, both running 26" barrels.
I've never seen the velocity you are getting from any 6.5 CM I've had or had come through for load development. Maybe my chrono is off. What I do know is that side by side, the 260 (my chamber specs, runs from modified AICS magazine or modified Win 70 mag box/hinged floor plate) is outperforming 6.5 CM by 100-120 fps.
You'll be down for SHTRC, correct? Save a couple rounds and we'll go chrono your 6.5 and my 260, maybe throw a few down range at Zia also. Afterwards a trip to Rudy's BBQ for eats and a beer or if you want hot NM cuisine we'll go to Sadie's instead . We'll have data from same chronograph for both rifles at minimum.
I really enjoy this debate. For me it boils down to I currently am a factory ammo .308 shooter with no reloading equipment. So its either .260 with a handpicked reloading service like Southwest or Relaods of Dallas, or 6.5 CM with hornady factory ammo. 6.5 CM is going to win everytime for me as long as factory ammo trickles in.
2830 w/140 VLD from the 6.5 CM
2940 w/140 from the 260. I am not running a Tac Match or SAAMI freebore dimension, I'm running a freebore dimension that allows me to put BT/B at N/S.
260 w/Tac Match chamber I'm seeing 2825-2850 w/142 SMKs.
260 limited to 2.860" or so there is no effective difference between 260 and 6.5 CM.
Run the 260 with an OAL of 2.980, 3.030" would be ideal with the 140 VLDs, and the 260 can and does walk away from the 6.5 CM for LR performance. I'm not talking what ballistics programs say, DOPE from both rifles and real world shooting conditions.
OP asked, I have stated what I've seen. Nothing more, nothing less.
Aimsmall55 - there is more then 1 gr difference in case capacity when you get the bullet up out of the case in 260.
What do I have to gain by misstating performance? I load both rds, I shoot both rds, I've done this for multiple rifles (mine and customers) and I see the same trend. 6.5 CM I have is from GAP and is a hammer, like every rifle I've been around from GAP. 260 was done by Score High Gunsmithing with my reamer, Charley and crew build a pretty fine rifle too. I've probably played with chamber dimensions more then the average bear, the 260 reamer used was designed originally for a person who wanted to use 260 in F-Open. I could fit the OAL in a modified AICS mag or modified Win 70 mag box, built a rifle and found that the 260 runs a fair bit better once you get the bullet out of the case.
Rob - When you make it down to NM again, let me know. We'll hit the range and then have some food, beer to discuss results.
2940 w/140 from the 260. I am not running a Tac Match or SAAMI freebore dimension, I'm running a freebore dimension that allows me to put BT/B at N/S.
260 w/Tac Match chamber I'm seeing 2825-2850 w/142 SMKs.
260 limited to 2.860" or so there is no effective difference between 260 and 6.5 CM.
Run the 260 with an OAL of 2.980, 3.030" would be ideal with the 140 VLDs, and the 260 can and does walk away from the 6.5 CM for LR performance. I'm not talking what ballistics programs say, DOPE from both rifles and real world shooting conditions.
OP asked, I have stated what I've seen. Nothing more, nothing less.
Aimsmall55 - there is more then 1 gr difference in case capacity when you get the bullet up out of the case in 260.
What do I have to gain by misstating performance? I load both rds, I shoot both rds, I've done this for multiple rifles (mine and customers) and I see the same trend. 6.5 CM I have is from GAP and is a hammer, like every rifle I've been around from GAP. 260 was done by Score High Gunsmithing with my reamer, Charley and crew build a pretty fine rifle too. I've probably played with chamber dimensions more then the average bear, the 260 reamer used was designed originally for a person who wanted to use 260 in F-Open. I could fit the OAL in a modified AICS mag or modified Win 70 mag box, built a rifle and found that the 260 runs a fair bit better once you get the bullet out of the case.
Rob - When you make it down to NM again, let me know. We'll hit the range and then have some food, beer to discuss results.
Best to neck up 243 brass or neck down 7mm-08 for the 260.. I've had success doing both. Necking down 308 will create thick necks.
G
I run both Remington and Lapua brass in my 260 and have not notice a big difference, other than quality. I can't speak for the 6.5 Creedmoor, but love shooting my 260. Others I know that shoot the Creedmoors, love them as well.
I would not even consider Lapua brass for a comp gun. To expensive to be leaving it on the ground. I am getting 2810 fps in my 6.5cm with a 142 smk. The factory rounds shoot lights out. If you reload just flip a coin. They both perform nearly identical.
I got 2990 from my 6.5 Creedmoor with 41 (or 41.5? I'm not going to check right now.) grains of Re-17/140 AMAX.
I wasn't thrilled. If I wanted a 6.5-284 I would have got one.
I'm looking to get about 2800+ fps which I'm getting with my load using 4350. Good enough for me.
These speed contests crack me up. If that's what you want go and get it. No need to mess around with these two.
I wasn't thrilled. If I wanted a 6.5-284 I would have got one.
I'm looking to get about 2800+ fps which I'm getting with my load using 4350. Good enough for me.
These speed contests crack me up. If that's what you want go and get it. No need to mess around with these two.
heh heh Now dats funny...
yes it is funny how he ask .260 remington or 6.5 creedmoor- the .260 guys always start in about oh i have a lengthened throat or a match throat or what ever its not saami any more. just shoot a 6.5X55 its already set up the way you want it. thats what i figured out. 6.5 cm is just about the most accurate round i have ever shot and it does it with the nicest best qualities-low recoil exceptional accuracy and you can reload or not reload. hey but if you guys really like your modifed .260's have atter and have fun shootin!!!
Just pick one based on ammo/ component costs.
6.5 Creedmoor is my favorite but all of the above are great options and quite similar. Creedmoor seems to really be taking off in popularity so hopefully we will start seeing even more components becoming availble for it.
6.5 Creedmoor was designed right, Hornady put the BT/B @ N/S. I see no reason to not take advantage of what the 260 is capable of doing by changing freebore dimension and having a reamer ground.
6.5X55, great round but in a SA is even more hamstrung then 260.
I had thought that this topic was already beaten to death, but this is an informative thread with Rob01 and FCS comments.
Glad to hear that some others are getting similar velocities greater than 2850fps from their 6.5 Creedmoors, as I was worried about overpressure, but with a longer barrel and custom chamber very doable.
Glad to hear that some others are getting similar velocities greater than 2850fps from their 6.5 Creedmoors, as I was worried about overpressure, but with a longer barrel and custom chamber very doable.
My Creedmoor
What I have observed in my Creedmoor with respect to velocity is that when I shoot Hornady Factory ammo right from the box, the velocities are higher and I see velocities around 2830-2840(26"mtu barrel). However, after it's been through the rifle once and reloaded to Hornady specs. It's shoots much closer to the advertised velocity which is 2710. No pressure signs in either case. I have bought hornady cases brand new and I have reloaded the once fired cases from the factory ammo. No significant different in accuracy. The reloads may have been a skosh tighter, but not enough to jump up and down about. Either way, It shoots lights out. Buy it or roll your own, you can't go wrong.
Best of luck. Hope you're having as good a time with the Creedmoor as I am.
What I have observed in my Creedmoor with respect to velocity is that when I shoot Hornady Factory ammo right from the box, the velocities are higher and I see velocities around 2830-2840(26"mtu barrel). However, after it's been through the rifle once and reloaded to Hornady specs. It's shoots much closer to the advertised velocity which is 2710. No pressure signs in either case. I have bought hornady cases brand new and I have reloaded the once fired cases from the factory ammo. No significant different in accuracy. The reloads may have been a skosh tighter, but not enough to jump up and down about. Either way, It shoots lights out. Buy it or roll your own, you can't go wrong.
Best of luck. Hope you're having as good a time with the Creedmoor as I am.
My 22.5" barrel throws the 140 Hornady Match @ 2800fps and the 140 Amax @ 2820fps, both loaded up short. The rifle has been hammering both loads for almost 2800rds and I have not felt the need to chase out the lands when an Amax @ 2.815" OAL still shoots in the high 0.2's @ 500yd
The 260 holds 1gr more powder, it also has 3gr more water capacity... this translates to a complete push with the internal ballistics.
Note again, my numbers are coming from a relatively short barrel in the 6.5mm world. I've owned both a 260 and a 6.5CM, the claimed 80fps difference is wholly "off" in my experience and detailed testing.
Currently I'm chambering up a pair of 6.5mm barrels, 1 in 6.5CM and 1 in 260. Both are made from the same barrel maker and he was kind enough to make sure that they're absolutely identical, same piece of bar stock and EVEN THE SAME STROKE COUNT FOR LAPPING. Both are going to finish at the same length (within 1/8th inch) and we're going to run the same bullet and powder combination from both at similar pressures and see what the difference in velocity and sub 3/4MOA barrel life turns out to be.
Rob was right on the money 2 pages ago when he stated that there's no functional performance difference between them. Pick 1 and run with it.
Zak wrote a heckuvan article in 2008... the relevance is only partially there. Performance terms are reasonable to use this article for, the article's commentary on component availability is obsolete for 2/3 of the calibers on the topic.
The 260 holds 1gr more powder, it also has 3gr more water capacity... this translates to a complete push with the internal ballistics.
Note again, my numbers are coming from a relatively short barrel in the 6.5mm world. I've owned both a 260 and a 6.5CM, the claimed 80fps difference is wholly "off" in my experience and detailed testing.
Currently I'm chambering up a pair of 6.5mm barrels, 1 in 6.5CM and 1 in 260. Both are made from the same barrel maker and he was kind enough to make sure that they're absolutely identical, same piece of bar stock and EVEN THE SAME STROKE COUNT FOR LAPPING. Both are going to finish at the same length (within 1/8th inch) and we're going to run the same bullet and powder combination from both at similar pressures and see what the difference in velocity and sub 3/4MOA barrel life turns out to be.
Rob was right on the money 2 pages ago when he stated that there's no functional performance difference between them. Pick 1 and run with it.
Just to muddy your decision making process up and reinforce the rest of Rob's post read this article.
6.5mm Shootout: .260 Remington vs. 6.5x47 Lapua vs. 6.5 Creedmoor
I like the Creedmoor but for my reasons, others like the 260 for their reasons. A few oddballs even like the Lapua...
Zak wrote a heckuvan article in 2008... the relevance is only partially there. Performance terms are reasonable to use this article for, the article's commentary on component availability is obsolete for 2/3 of the calibers on the topic.
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I wanted to see what all the hype was about so I ordered some Lapua .260 brass from Mile High Shooting.
The stuff is so pretty I don't even want to shoot it, but it would be equally bad to deprive the cases of their purpose.
It was not cheap at around $1/case shipped (with the Hide discount plus shipping) but I read that with annealing every 5 or 6 loadings it can last 15 or 20 making it a pretty good value in my eyes.
Joe
A few years ago I had both calibers and found them to be very similar. It really is a flip of the coin as it relates to performance in my experience. Both of my rifles were GAP built and both shot extremely well as would be expected. I ended up keeping the 260 as I liked the set up a bit better and I had more brass. I also had heard about the Lapua brass to come. I can attest from personal experience that the Lapua Brass is not the holy grail. It is excellent, but definately not perfect. Lapua brass works extremely well in my 308's and 243, but I had to do a ton of case prep for it to fit in my 260. I made it work and the brass has performed well. Was it worth it...not for me. Having said all that, they are both great calibers that perform very similar relative to each other. Take out the variables that make each rifle unique and it is a coin toss.
I noticed this too. Pulled down a few and found they were closer to 42.5gr than 41.5gr of powder. Not so mysterious after all...
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