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new long range project and lost in caliber choice

R

Raufoss

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Nov 23, 2010
548
240
37
Missouri
Hi

i have done my research and i'm a bit overwhelmed by all the data and choice.
I am building a rem 700 SA based repeater(aics mags) for long range shooting and maybe long range hunting. I want to stick in the 6mm/6.5mm bullet in their heavy format(105/115 - 140 gr). My first choice was the .260 rem but after some research i dont think i will be able to fit 140 gr berger vld in aics mags.
So i'm stuck between the 6.5 creedmoor ,6.5x47 lapua and the 6xc.
my understanding from those caliber.

6.5x47 lapua:
Reasonably-priced
Lapua brass availability and quality
Similar ballistic than the 260 but i need to run the pressure higher. but have a reputation for having a strong case that puts up with the high pressures some reloader push.
Magazine friendly

6.5 creedmoor
Almost identical case capacity to .260 Remington and maybe a better designed case.
''stuck'' with hornady/nosler brass. i say stuck , because in my experience with hornady brass , if i run high pressure i will shorten the brass life faster than high quality lapua.
Also reasonably priced
magazine friendly

6xc
Norma brass available
about the same as a 243 but with better barrel life
some think it's the smoothest feeding round for repeater
maybe a tab more complicated to source component/reloading equipment and reamer here in canada.

-something that i have not sure is about the primer size of the 6.5x47 and the 6xc. can i use my standard OEM firing pin form my rem 700 or i will have trouble?

i'm looking for your suggestion and comments

kevin
 
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Just a thought on the 6.5x47. I know several people that shoot them. They all shoot different loads. 123 gr up to 140 gr and they all shoot. It is not a picky caliber to load for
 
range on paper is 1000 yard.
hunting range will be limited by the load development.
 
I say 6.5 CM for convenience of getting factory ammo if you need it (hunting and match). No concerns about magazine length (designed from the ground up as a short action do it all cartridge).

6.5x47 requires expensive lapua brass and can present pressure limit issues before 6.5CM and 260 Rem. This case uses a small rifle primer.

w/ 260 Rem, you can get lapua brass or you can easily make it from old 308 cases. For me it would be a tough choice if factory ammo price and selection was comparable to the creedmoor.
 
FWIW, 6.5X47 is gaining in popularity. This means that as time goes by---after this craze--- components and ammo for it will be more available. The 6.5CM was once a relatively new and unsupported platform too. Right now, most guns are hard to buy ammo etc for, and those that aren't are being figured out and becoming hard to buy for. This will pass in some form, and things will be available again, so you might want to go for what you feel is best ballistically, and the components will be available again.
 
Have you considered the 6.5 super lr?

Easy to form off of plentiful brass (in better times).

6.5 Super LR
From the link above:
"Initial Chrono Results

Below are some initial chrono results with the Sierra 142 gr Match King Bullets (that can be loaded magazine length to feed out of a short action magazine). Most of the 139-142 gr 6.5 mm bullets can be loaded at magazine length for magazine feeding and still remain close to the lands, but because of the long neck of the case, not have a lot of bearing surface of the bullet back in the case.

42 gr H4350, BR-2 Primer, Sierra 142 gr. MatchKing - 2801 fps, E.S. 17, S.D. 6
43 gr H4350, BR-2 Primer, Sierra 142 gr. MatchKing - 2885 fps, E.S. 11, S.D. 5 ****
42 gr RL17, BR-2 Primer, Sierra 142 gr. MatchKing - 2836 fps, E.S. 26, S.D. 10
43 gr RL17, BR-2 Primer, Sierra 142 gr. MatchKing - 2894 fps, E.S. 19, S.D. 6 ****
38 gr Varget, BR-2 Primer, Sierra 142 gr. MatchKing - 2775 fps, E.S. 17, S.D. 7
39 gr N150, BR-2 Primer, Sierra 142 gr. MatchKing - 2809 fps, E.S. 16, S.D. 6
40 gr N150, BR-2 Primer, Sierra 142 gr. MatchKing - 2869 fps, E.S. 27, S.D. 10
41 gr N150, BR-2 Primer, Sierra 142 gr. MatchKing - 2921 fps, E.S. 17, S.D. 6

**** Note: The 43 gr. loadings for H4350 and RL17 shot well and did not appear to be top end loads. In further testing, loadings using 43.5 gr of H4350 and 43.5 gr. of RL 17 were used and shot well without any excess pressure signs noted (i.e meaning the 142 gr Sierra bullets were running 2900+ fps"
 
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How about a 243 Match chamber for the heavies. Maybe a little boring but you can get inexpensive or Lapua brass anytime.

Mike
 
Avgjoe said:
How about a 243 Match chamber for the heavies. Maybe a little boring but you can get inexpensive or Lapua brass anytime.

Mike
Click to expand...

yes exactly what i am using right now. but time for a new caliber that is easier on the barrel lifespan
 
Shoalwater said:
That 6.5 super lr is a bad boy, wish I'd seen that before ordering my Creedmoor barrel.
Click to expand...

after some reflexion it's interesting...
but to find the reamer for this is outside my confort zone... maybe if someone could help
 
6.5wsm when you have your barrel chambered give them a dummy round loaded without primer or powder with your planed bullet and seat it deep enough that it will fit in the mag and the guy reaming the chamber can cut your chamber to match your bullet. just my $.02
 
I built a 6.5x47, I won't build another one.

Not that it is a bad cartridge, but out of the 5 that I have had a hand in building mine was the only one that didn't have verticle problems at 600+ yards.

I'd build a 243, and shoot the new Bergers or 115 DTACs. Easy brass, just might need a new barrel sooner.
 
I've built them all (the 6.5s). If you want a short action go with the CM (cheaper brass, but good...I'm getting speeds just over 2900 fps with a 140). If you want light recoil, go with the lapua (speeds just over 2800 fps with a 140). Long action stick with the 6.5 norma... tried and tru!
 
I'm spinning up a spare barrel at this very moment in 6.5 slr. I went ahead and ordered a custom reamer (not a big deal), rather than rent/borrow one.

Regarding wildcat cartridges: Once I went 284 Shehane, my reservations for having a wildcat cartridge evaporated. If you are remotely interested, I'd recommend jumping in with both feet given my personal experience. Better than wishing you had later on.
 
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260 gets my vote. It provides versatility in use, and you can resize brass from several other calibers.
 
I'm running the 140 Amax @ 2820fps from a 22" barrel in the 6.5CM with the following load:

140 Amax @ 2.815" OAL
43.5gr H4350
CCI200 primer
Hornady brass


It's estimated by QuickLoad to be around 61ksi, I anneal the necks every 5th load cycle and I have 15+ reloads on the brass since I switched to this load from a much lighter (41.5gr) load. The primer pockets are holding up just fine, I haven't lost a case to overpressure EVER on the load.

In a 26" barrel this load will run over 2900 without trouble.
 
so if i can get a reamer for a 6.5 super lr it's gonna be the winner. anyone can recommend me the best reamer maker that would make one...i will try importing it.
 
A lot of folks will tell you PTG and they make good stuff. I've got a few from them and they cut dandy, the CS is very good.

Other options that I own are Clymer and JGS and I'm more than happy with those as well.
 
bohem said:
A lot of folks will tell you PTG and they make good stuff. I've got a few from them and they cut dandy, the CS is very good.

Other options that I own are Clymer and JGS and I'm more than happy with those as well.
Click to expand...

i will contact ptg and jgs to see what they can do for me.

But one thing is not clear for me....does the reamer spec need to be made to a specific bullet?
 
Raufoss said:
so if i can get a reamer for a 6.5 super lr it's gonna be the winner. anyone can recommend me the best reamer maker that would make one...i will try importing it.
Click to expand...

I would call Dave Kiff at PTG. Great product, great service, good guy. And he lives in the Great Pacific Northwest, so that should be the deciding factor right there... ;)
 
I shoot all of those cartridges, I love all and use em for different things. I have my 6.5 CM by my side at the moment. Been seeing a lot of use lately. None are bad choices. DO you reload? If not then 6.5 CM or 260 with the CM better. I shoot all of em out to the limits and all of em smoke a regular 308. My GAP 6.5 CM with 20" tube got me a first round hit with a second follow up hitting same spot at 1315 yds the other day in a steady 8-10 mph wind. SO, they are all good
 
I think Hornady 6.5cm brass is fairly good. But something to consider is the Nosler is coming out with 6.5cm brass, supposedly by this summer.
 
Reamer # 2133

Raufoss said:
i will contact ptg and jgs to see what they can do for me.

But one thing is not clear for me....does the reamer spec need to be made to a specific bullet?
Click to expand...

I went with JGS for this reamer since they have the drawing onhand, although my expirience with PTG has been good as well. The follow up and customer service was phenominal at JGS. You can contact Sarah and ask for the Reamer drawing #2133 if you are using a mag fed short action. They have another that will be optimized for long actions as well but you will have to ask for it as I do not know what the drawing number is.

Sarah's information is:

Sarah Siewell - Sales Staff
[email protected]

JGS Precision Tool Mfg., LLC
60819 Selander Road
Coos Bay, OR 97420
Phone: 541/267-4331
Fax: 541/267-5996

Website: Reamers, Chamber Reamers, Jgstools.com, Rifle, Shotgun, Pistol, Chamber Reamers , Gauges, Bore Reamers, Precision Tools, Turbo Assesories,



Regarding the free bore: The reamer print referenced above, and attached to this post, is optimized for mag fed short action rifles. You will be able to run just about anything that is available (see below).

6.5 Super LR

From the website above:

"Notes On OAL's With Certain Bullets

With The 6.5mm Super LR/S Reamer:

For the 6.5mm Super LR/S Reamer above (i.e. with the .055" free bore, is throated for magazine feeding many of the 139-142 gr 6.5 mm bullets) the following bullet measurements were made to show at what OAL the noted bullets hit the lands:

Sierra 142 gr. MatchKing - 2.845" OAL
Berger 140 gr. LRBT - 2.838" OAL
Lapua 139 gr. Scenar - 2.808" OAL

______________________________

Max Case and Trim Length for 6.5 Super LR Brass Cases

There is no formal established max case or trim lengths for the 6.5 Super LR brass. The author suggests the following for guidelines:

Max Case Length: 2.030"

Trim Length: 2.020" "
 

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Rockfish Dave said:
I went with JGS for this reamer since they have the drawing onhand, although my expirience with PTG has been good as well. The follow up and customer service was phenominal at JGS. You can contact Sarah and ask for the Reamer drawing #2133 if you are using a mag fed short action. They have another that will be optimized for long actions as well but you will have to ask for it as I do not know what the drawing number is.

Sarah's information is:

Sarah Siewell - Sales Staff
[email protected]

JGS Precision Tool Mfg., LLC
60819 Selander Road
Coos Bay, OR 97420
Phone: 541/267-4331
Fax: 541/267-5996

Website: Reamers, Chamber Reamers, Jgstools.com, Rifle, Shotgun, Pistol, Chamber Reamers , Gauges, Bore Reamers, Precision Tools, Turbo Assesories,



Regarding the free bore: The reamer print referenced above, and attached to this post, is optimized for mag fed short action rifles. You will be able to run just about anything that is available (see below).

6.5 Super LR

From the website above:

"Notes On OAL's With Certain Bullets

With The 6.5mm Super LR/S Reamer:

For the 6.5mm Super LR/S Reamer above (i.e. with the .055" free bore, is throated for magazine feeding many of the 139-142 gr 6.5 mm bullets) the following bullet measurements were made to show at what OAL the noted bullets hit the lands:

Sierra 142 gr. MatchKing - 2.845" OAL
Berger 140 gr. LRBT - 2.838" OAL
Lapua 139 gr. Scenar - 2.808" OAL

______________________________

Max Case and Trim Length for 6.5 Super LR Brass Cases

There is no formal established max case or trim lengths for the 6.5 Super LR brass. The author suggests the following for guidelines:

Max Case Length: 2.030"

Trim Length: 2.020" "
Click to expand...

Wow i couldn't ask for a more complet answer. thanks dave!
i will give them a call
 
No big deal, I enjoy this stuff.

As an aside: The more I've learned over the years, the more I've realized there is no secret sauce involved although some might try to convince you otherwise. It's just math.
 
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A few thoughts:

Your reason for disqualifying the 260 is not sound. Throated properly, the 140 berger will fit the AICS magazine fine. Or you can throat the chamber deeper, hang the bullet out further, and simply remove the front plate from the AICS magazines, which allows for a COAL of ~2.950".

If you still decide you want to order a custom 6.5SLR reamer (a nice cartridge in its own right), buy from PTG. JGS charges a lot more money for the same damn thing. My understanding (on good authority) is Kiff designed the reamer to begin with, but the designer of the SLR cartridge liked JGS's reamer print format better, so he transposed the reamer dimensions into JGS format.
 
turbo54 said:
A few thoughts:

Your reason for disqualifying the 260 is not sound. Throated properly, the 140 berger will fit the AICS magazine fine. Or you can throat the chamber deeper, hang the bullet out further, and simply remove the front plate from the AICS magazines, which allows for a COAL of ~2.950".

If you still decide you want to order a custom 6.5SLR reamer (a nice cartridge in its own right), buy from PTG. JGS charges a lot more money for the same damn thing. My understanding (on good authority) is Kiff designed the reamer to begin with, but the designer of the SLR cartridge liked JGS's reamer print format better, so he transposed the reamer dimensions into JGS format.
Click to expand...

i was hesitating on the point that i will not have a reliable feed from the 260 at a 2.950 coal( and that's pushing the limit). also after some research i like to have a longer bearing surface and a 30 degree shoulder.
 
finally it will be 6.5x47lapua. my wife have listen to my conversation with my brother and father and she decided to buy me a set of dies and 100 lapua brass so i will go for this...hahah womens!
 
260 ai is what i decided to go with, I was considering the same cartridges as the op too
 
i have been going through the same dilemma as the o.p.! i am leaning toward the 6.5 cm. is it the general consensus that other companies (lapua???) will begin making 6.5cm brass, maybe after the present craziness settles down a tad? i have had mixed results with hornady brass, in the past.
 
Raufoss said:
finally it will be 6.5x47lapua. my wife have listen to my conversation with my brother and father and she decided to buy me a set of dies and 100 lapua brass so i will go for this...hahah womens!
Click to expand...
Excellent choice! You won't regret it. Cracks me up when people are blaming the problem they have with their rifle and their shooting on the cartridge.
 
I love my 6.5x47 Lapua. It's a great case with a lot of life in them. You can get 2,900FPS with a 140 gr bullet. Try that with the 260 or 6.5Creedmoor.
 
hintonrc51 said:
I love my 6.5x47 Lapua. It's a great case with a lot of life in them. You can get 2,900FPS with a 140 gr bullet. Try that with the 260 or 6.5Creedmoor.
Click to expand...

Easier to get that speed in a 260 or Creedmoor given their larger case capacities.

2900fps with a 140 from a 6.5x47 is either a long and exceedingly fast barrel, RL17, very high pressure, or some combination thereof.
 
BoilerUP said:
Easier to get that speed in a 260 or Creedmoor given their larger case capacities.

2900fps with a 140 from a 6.5x47 is either a long and exceedingly fast barrel, RL17, very high pressure, or some combination thereof.
Click to expand...

I'm getting 2977FPS with RL17 with no sign of pressure. Over 1,500 rounds and the barrel is still in great shape. And it's still sub 1/4 MOA at 500 yards
 
I'm getting 2977fps from my 308 with 208 amaxs. 1/4 moa at a mile. 10k rounds through so far with varget. Throat looks brand new.

EDIT: Forgot to mention its a 16" barrel!
 
turbo54 said:
I'm getting 2977fps from my 308 with 208 amaxs. 1/4 moa at a mile. 10k rounds through so far with varget. Throat looks brand new.

EDIT: Forgot to mention its a 16" barrel!
Click to expand...

Looks like my stick is bigger than yours. Better luck next time hater.
 
silly guys! i had the same problem.which 6.5????? i got it, 2- 6.5x47 lapua surgeons and 2- 260 rems, a stiller and a 700. i love em all! problem solved..............dave
 
My first rifle at the age of 12 was a 260. I love that rifle and still us it on first day of deer season. And I'm not saying the 6.5x47 is the end all be all case. A lot of things come into place. For where I live and shoot its perfect for me. Other might find something different.
 
turbo54 said:
A few thoughts:

Your reason for disqualifying the 260 is not sound. Throated properly, the 140 berger will fit the AICS magazine fine. Or you can throat the chamber deeper, hang the bullet out further, and simply remove the front plate from the AICS magazines, which allows for a COAL of ~2.950".



Does anyone know how to remove the front plate?
Click to expand...
 
turbo54 said:
A few thoughts:

Your reason for disqualifying the 260 is not sound. Throated properly, the 140 berger will fit the AICS magazine fine. Or you can throat the chamber deeper, hang the bullet out further, and simply remove the front plate from the AICS magazines, which allows for a COAL of ~2.950".
I can only get 2.870 in my 700 sa any longer and the bullet tips touch the feed ramp. so the o.p. needs to consider that too
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
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