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Which bubble level is right for me? (List of available parts and issues with each inside)

J

JayMazee

Student
Full Member
Minuteman
Oct 13, 2010
195
26
Rocky Mountains
I'm mounting a level on my ar-15 spr. It's a 2.5-10x and I'll be shooting out regularly to 600, and pushing it to 800 occasionally if I can. I'd like a bubble level, and have gotten nothing but conflicting info from almost every person I've asked or read about. Whatever I select, I'd like to also put on my 700s. So while price isn't a major consideration, if I can do 3 perfectly fine working parts for $100 that's going to be an influence over the $100 single part. Same with the platform being an AR in this case, what works for AR might not work for bolt actions, so mounting to the scope is preferred.

Options I've found:
Vortex
Sinclair
Accuracy 1st
Holland
Tubb
Nightforce
US Optics
B-Square
"Xtreme Hardcore Gear" (yea, really their name... "X".. kewl)
Flatline Ops
Wheeler Engineering
Mounting Solutions Plus


These either stick out all the time, or are required to fold out for use:
B-Square
US Optics

This one looks great, except that instead of a bubble that rises, this is a bearing the "falls" meaning it works completely opposite of every other level out there. I'd like something intuitive to how I expect a bubble to work, plus it's the most expensive.
Accuracy 1st

I was told to avoid this like the plague because it's about 3x larger than it should be and will block my view of something at some point, comparing it to other photos, it is larger than it should be:
Vortex

I'm running angled surefire BUIS sights most likely, so these doesn't seem like it'll fit... plus, seriously, X-treme... come on...:
Xtreme Hardcore Gear

I'd like an offset mount that I can quickly open my weak eye, see the level, and not have to adjust my position, this one and others would not allow for that:
Mounting Solutions Plus

The mount on this is by design an asymmetric interference fit, not something I'd intentionally choose for a scope mount or accessory:
Flatline Ops

That leaves me with a list of these:

Sinclair
Holland
Tubb


Of those three:

Sinclair is cheap and looks small enough, but isn't very fancy.
Holland looks a little better, but Midway has reviews saying they bubble divides quickly under shooting, not sure if true or issue unique to this.
Tubb looks like a fragile mount, but does more or less seem out of the way. Appears to be the smallest vile of them all.


Did I exclude something for the wrong reason? Does anyone have experience with the above and can recommend anything above another? I know this is brought up now and then, but I thought it would be helpful to gather first hand knowledge about everything on the market right now if I can do that.
 
The best bubble level I have used was the newest level that JEC customs just came out with; I don't have a picture of it with me but it's a very low profile, swing-out style level that couldn't be any more perfect. He also has the TLD w/ integrated level that works great too. Contact Jason and I am sure he can get you info on his newest product.

JEC Customs Home Page
 
I can only comment on the one I have, which is the Vortex.

Its a level. It's got a bubble. It shows level.

I don't find it to be too big. It doesn't block my view at all.

The way I installed it was to lock the gun in a vise, put a level in the top of the scope, level the scope, then carefully level and tighten the Vortex bubble level. I then torqued it with my FAT wrench and checked it vs the plumb line

It was close enough for government work.

I'm by no means an expert, it's just what worked for me and it was all of $35 bucks
 
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I'd say any that when you peek, you break cheek weld are out. I haven't looked up all your choices, but Holland's and US Optics are two I know of where you don't have to. The US swivel one is junk in my opinion because you can manipulate it, you never know when it's level.
The Holland works for me, I shoot left eye closed, I just open it to check level and bang. The bubble will split, in cold weather more so, but it seems to split in half, so either shake it or center the two half bubbles and shoot, works here.
Not sure, but that Flatline ops one might be the cats butt, but at 150.00+ I won't pay.
 
^^+1 This, and it doesn't block my turrets.
 
I have a holland on my Barrett, a vortex on my aics that replaced a US optics that wouldn't level right, and just bought one of the site supporters hardcore gear or something like that for my lr Noveske. The hardcore is the best of all of them as far as placement. It sits out of the way and in your face, no breaking cheek weld to view, no swithing eye focus from right to left like on the Holland. It wont work on the AICS but will for a full top rail like the AR and Barrett and is totally out of the way on an AR platform. My Barrett will be getting one and replace the Holland.

here
http://xtremehardcoregear.com/arlevel.html
 
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Spuhr mounts?

Those are definitely on the pricey side, but if you are swapping one optic between rigs...
 
You're only shooting out to 800 with your AR... So my advice would be to forget installing a level on it...if you're hellbent on installing only one on both rifles you'll likely tire of swapping it to the Rem 700 in short order. Been there, done that...it's a time suck.
FWIW, I have used the Vortex, Horus, US Optics swivel and the Flatline Ops Alpha(35mm swiveling).
They all work..but the Flatline ops is by far the easiest to adjust. It has a micro adjustment screw that allows you to adjust its open and folded positions so that they are both level.
Question-What are the diameters of the optics on both guns?
Hope this helps.
 
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I seco d the Accuracy 1st level. I've got one and have had no issues yet. I don't have to break cheek weld and it dose not interfere with my knobs however I am lefty with a right handed rifle.
 
I have the Vortex, it isn't too big and it doesn't block the view.

I also have the Accuracy 1st. It is light years better in quality than anything else I've seen to date.
 
Accuracy 1st...you have to handle it to realize how well thought out it is. Their customer service is amazing, in dealing with them recently they have gained a loyal customer from me.
 
PDXGS said:
You're only shooting out to 800 with your AR... So my advice would be to forget installing a level on it...if you're hellbent on installing only one on both rifles you'll likely tire of swapping it to the Rem 700 in short order. Been there, done that...it's a time suck.
FWIW, I have used the Vortex, Horus, US Optics swivel and the Flatline Ops Alpha(35mm swiveling).
They all work..but the Flatline ops is by far the easiest to adjust. It has a micro adjustment screw that allows you to adjust its open and folded positions so that they are both level.
Question-What are the diameters of the optics on both guns?
Hope this helps.
Click to expand...

I know what you mean on the swapping being a time suck, however, my requirements to put the level on the scope was a bit for AR to AR and 700 to 700, but more so that all my guns "work" the same. That is, the hardcore mount might be nice on the AR, but if it changes how I shoot between the 700 and the AR I'm not interested. I'd prefer all the same style.

That's interesting no one else is complaining about the vortex. A good shooter/friend raves about how much he hates those and I do trust his opinion on these things. In photos it definitely appears to be larger than the rest in the aluminum part.

To answer another question I have 1", 30mm, and 34mm scopes. The 34mm I don't actually own yet. I know that's going to be a tougher one. So for now I'm just focused on the 1" and 30mm.

The Flatline I saw a review about how it clamped on (assymetircally) and I agree that doesn't look like the best way to do it. I'm cautious of that. Instead of getting good 'contact' around the tube, it by design has to squeeze an egg shape. Probably fine, just cautious.

Yea, the Acc 1st looks great. The price is little off putting, but really, I'm just more concerned that it works "backwards" of everything else out there.

Yes, I'm "only" shooting out to 800 with the 556. This is my long range training gun. I can't swing the cost to learn with a 308 AR so my figuring is 556 will make almost everything harder ;) I want a level even if I don't "need" it for this gun because again I'd like everything I have to match up as much as possible.

Same with the levels built into mounts. The SPUHR are stupid expensive for not being QD. I don't think there is anything a LaRue or ADM mount can't do that a Spuhr can. So even if I liked one, I'd be looking at their mounts for all my guns and that just don't make any sense for me.

The JEC customs looks larger than the Vortex for the mount and I don't need a 45 rail. I already have 45º irons on the AR.

No one has anything to say about the Tubb, seems the smallest, lightest, mid-range in price, and has no 1" option which really isn't that big of a deal.
Scope Mounted Anti-Cant Indicator (30mm) - David Tubb
Does anyone have any experience with this?

I'm leaning
Holland but it seems these particularly have bubble dividing issues, perhaps they use a different liquid or pressure than the rest?
Sinclair seems small, cheap, effective but the harder edges have me put off slightly
Acc 1st except when I'm looking at 3 or 4 levels the price adds up, and due to the way it works you're pretty much stuck with them.
Tubb if anyone could say positively about it
 
My first question to you would be what 5.56 ammo do you plan on using out to 800 yd? If you're not reloading an 80+ gr projectile to greater than mag length, I can assure you a bubble level won't even be close to the limiting factor if there is any wind at all. FWIW - I use the flip out USO levels on all my competition rifles and I'm very happy with them. They don't seem to be favored by many here, but I haven't had any problems with them.
 
I wouldn't say that you're stuck using an Accuracy 1st vs any other level. The point is to keep the ball between the lines, this works the same regardless of the standard bubble level or their style. I have used both and see no real training stumps in running one vs the other. Line it up and send it, the A 1st is advertised to resolve a little finer than the other styles.
 
7mmSTW said:
I wouldn't say that you're stuck using an Accuracy 1st vs any other level. The point is to keep the ball between the lines, this works the same regardless of the standard bubble level or their style. I have used both and see no real training stumps in running one vs the other. Line it up and send it, the A 1st is advertised to resolve a little finer than the other styles.
Click to expand...

It's that left=down and right=up, opposite of a air bubble, so my first thought and what someone else who owns both confirmed was that switching back and forth has you toggling around to get it to move in the right direction. I don't know this is the case, just what makes sense and what I was later told.
 
gstaylorg said:
My first question to you would be what 5.56 ammo do you plan on using out to 800 yd? If you're not reloading an 80+ gr projectile to greater than mag length, I can assure you a bubble level won't even be close to the limiting factor if there is any wind at all. FWIW - I use the flip out USO levels on all my competition rifles and I'm very happy with them. They don't seem to be favored by many here, but I haven't had any problems with them.
Click to expand...

77gr and the purpose isn't directly to affect shots out of this gun, but rather to make sure I'm shooting level for when I'm running 308 or 300wm out further. Bad habits and all...
 
jnz said:
77gr and the purpose isn't directly to affect shots out of this gun, but rather to make sure I'm shooting level for when I'm running 308 or 300wm out further. Bad habits and all...
Click to expand...

I gotcha, it ought to work well for your purpose. FWIW, just be aware that your 77 load is going to be difficult to do much with after 5-600 yd or so if there's any wind at all. I recently received a new GAP bolt gun trainer in .223, which I ordered for probably most of the same reasons you're using yours. With FGMM 77 gr, it's an absolute laser at 100 yd with 0.25" to 0.35" 5-shot groups generated with almost no effort on my part. At 300 yd, pretty much the same precision for the majority of shots in 10-15 shot groups except I'd get a couple fliers if I really missed a wind call. At 600 yd, once the wind came up a little, I believe it became GAP's first precision shotgun. Those little pills are just too light and slow to perform well at that range if there's much wind. Anyhow, best of luck with it.
 
Here are the two JEC customs level; one on the TLD w/ the 45º mount and the other low-profile swing-out level. I mounted them both so you can see them side by side. The new swing-out level is perfect for weak-eye viewing and if needed tucks out of the way when working barricades. It has a detent in it to lock in place but it's made in such a way that if you hit it it will fold on its own and not break.

jc.jpg
 
doubled said:
Here are the two JEC customs level; one on the TLD w/ the 45º mount and the other low-profile swing-out level. I mounted them both so you can see them side by side. The new swing-out level is perfect for weak-eye viewing and if needed tucks out of the way when working barricades. It has a detent in it to lock in place but it's made in such a way that if you hit it it will fold on its own and not break.

jc.jpg
Click to expand...

Hmmm... I actually sort of like that low pro one, although it goes against some of the requirements I first posted. The main thing that turned me on it is that it "locks" open and it's always "level" with the rail, that USO one could be any position at any time, this one, even if swung in a little bit accidentally should still be level.

How much is the JEC low pro?

I like the Tubb and would have an order in by now, except that I'm not crazy about how thin the mount is, and they want $13 to ship a 1oz part. I may end up with one still, but it seems like a sort of excessive shipping charge.

Still looking...
 
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I am pleased with the Accuracy 1st level. I tend to cant the rifle significantly to starboard. I also shoot at relatively long distances. The level serves as part of a mental pre-shot checklist that seems to help with consistency and proper form.
 
WyomingShooter said:
I am pleased with the Accuracy 1st level. I tend to cant the rifle significantly to starboard. I also shoot at relatively long distances. The level serves as part of a mental pre-shot checklist that seems to help with consistency and proper form.
Click to expand...

Exactly why I want a level. I'll look at the Acc1st again
 
jnz said:
Hmmm... I actually sort of like that low pro one, although it goes against some of the requirements I first posted. The main thing that turned me on it is that it "locks" open and it's always "level" with the rail, that USO one could be any position at any time, this one, even if swung in a little bit accidentally should still be level.

How much is the JEC low pro?

I like the Tubb and would have an order in by now, except that I'm not crazy about how thin the mount is, and they want $13 to ship a 1oz part. I may end up with one still, but it seems like a sort of excessive shipping charge.

Still looking...
Click to expand...

Shoot Jason an eMail, I'm not sure what they are going to retail for. I think you would be really happy with it.
 
doubled said:
Shoot Jason an eMail, I'm not sure what they are going to retail for. I think you would be really happy with it.
Click to expand...

I did that, he won't have them for sale for 3-5 weeks, and even then won't be cheap but I can deal with that if it's the "right" part for me.
 
I run Jason's brake, TLD and used that bubble level for him at a match recently to see how it functioned. His products are great quality - you won't be disappointed with its quality and I think you would be pleased with the function. Never had bubble separation under recoil and the fact it tucks away so tight to the gun but is quick to deploy was really nice.
 
I have a Tubb on my SS5-20 atop my .308 bolt gun. I can't say anything bad about it & really like the fact you can orient it up or down, depending on your needs/preferences. I'm able to stay on the gun/scope & with both eyes open pick up the bubble. Have had zero issues with the mounting. While it doesn't look like much, once mounted, it's minimalist mounting band just works, and works well. The mount band stays out of your way so you can see the turrets beyond. I'd buy another.
 
Between Tubb and JEC... I guess I'll hang out for a little while and see what comes up. I don't need one this week. Also found a buddy that owns a Holland so I can see if I like the location/fit.
 
JEC said it will be 3-5 weeks before the rail mounted bubble is available and price will range from $80-100. I am assuming it will be $100... I am also torn between the Tubb or the JEC. I already have a NF ADI on my rail so I may go with the Tubb so I can actually see it! But I do like the looks of that JEC. Plus I think I would prefer to have it on my rail how do I know if I have it canted by just putting it on my scope tube? Is there a method to square the square that I should do. I figured there would be less guess work with a rail mount seeing that is what you get. I can just see me spinning it ever so slightly on the scope tube.
 
doctordoctor said:
JEC said it will be 3-5 weeks before the rail mounted bubble is available and price will range from $80-100. I am assuming it will be $100... I am also torn between the Tubb or the JEC. I already have a NF ADI on my rail so I may go with the Tubb so I can actually see it! But I do like the looks of that JEC. Plus I think I would prefer to have it on my rail how do I know if I have it canted by just putting it on my scope tube? Is there a method to square the square that I should do. I figured there would be less guess work with a rail mount seeing that is what you get. I can just see me spinning it ever so slightly on the scope tube.
Click to expand...

The human eye is pretty amazing, getting everything down to sub 1º should be easy enough (eventually). But yea, I have some of the same concerns. Also, I could see the JEC being also useful for scope leveling or double checking level.

I'm not sure if my 700 LA has any room for the JEC as I do not own it yet ;) ... I'm going to hang out for a couple weeks and wait. But yea, Tubb and JEC still have my interest the most.
 
I have two Tubb's. Use them for prone shooting - F class, and like them a lot.
- One mounted in front of the knobs on a March scope and on a Premier I mounted it closer to the eye piece due to the sieze of the knobs.
Both are mounted with the lever on top and are very visible, if you have both eyes open - You can even see the bubble squash as you fire :)

I like the thin mounts - they don't interfere with anything and I'm sure it's plenty strong.
On the other hand, if I would drop my rifle and it would get caught on the Tubb, I would prefer it to break instead of the scope.

I have a Vortex on another rifle, but that thing is huge - and I don't like it. Bought it to see if I could save some $'s, but I guess I need some more Tubb's.

my 2c.
 
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I now have both the accuracy 1st and the us optic swivel and mounted them both to my rifle and they were both inline with each other. I liked the us optic better cause it folded away and it was easy to see. The accuracy 1st has to be place behind the turret so I can see the parallax adjustment knob thus making it a little more difficult to see. But if you are rough on your stuff the accuracy 1st is built like a tank. Both are great, you just have to pick which type of level works for you.
 
A few comments, since I just bought 5 or 6 bubble levels for various rifles. I would avoid rail-mounted levels because the ones I've tried aren't really level with the rail without shimming. A horizontal swingout level will tend to jack knife due to recoil if you're a lefthanded shooter (that's me). Therefore I've changed over to scope-mounted levels that I've mounted just in front of the turrets. While looking through the scope with my left (dominant) eye, I can see the bubble with my right (weak) eye. If I concentrate, I can see both target and bubble at the same time in my head. Here are comments about the levels I like:

* Tubb: Small and lightweight, but the bubble itself is smaller and harder to see than other designs. It has a window on top to let in sunlight for better visibility. It's made of a polymer and not metal, but has a threaded metal insert for the retaining screw. I agree about the $13 shipping charge!

* Accuracy 1st DG: Possibly my favorite, but I sent it back when I discovered they work only on the left side of the scope (they aren't see-through bubble levels). I hope they decide to make a model for lefties.

* Flatline, non-folder, non-adjustable: This is my predominant bubble level and I highly recommend it. Flatline's pricing tier scheme is incomprehensible, but this one is their cheapest model, about $75 from MidWayUSA plus $4 shipping. The bubble is easy to see just above the windage turret for me since I mount the levels on the right side of the scope. High quality, easy to mount. The user comment on the MidWay website isn't valid, probably posted by a knuckle dragger.

If you're a righthanded shooter, I would go for the Accuracy 1st.
 
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I, too, am a left-handed shooter. I use the Vortex levels since the Accuracy 1st model is not compatible with lefties like One-Eyed Jack mentioned above. I have had no issues with the Vortex level. It does just fine for me sitting just in front of the windage turret, even if it is a bit bigger than other models. Each shot causes the bubble to split, but it's back together by the time I am getting the reticle back on target.
 
doubled said:
Here are the two JEC customs level; one on the TLD w/ the 45º mount and the other low-profile swing-out level. I mounted them both so you can see them side by side. The new swing-out level is perfect for weak-eye viewing and if needed tucks out of the way when working barricades. It has a detent in it to lock in place but it's made in such a way that if you hit it it will fold on its own and not break.

jc.jpg
Click to expand...

I want to mount a kicker optic like that in my MK12 MOD 0. What is the best mount? Going to use an NF 3.5-15x56.
 
I'm glad I found this thread, as I've been going through the same process. I decided to go with the Accuracy 1st for my .308. I was looking really hard at the Tubbs, and may just pick one of those up for my .223 at some point.

It seems like levels are a little more important than I had originally thought. I just came across something from Litz's book, where he basically said 'if you aren't using a level and checking the calibration on your scope...you are kidding yourself'
 
jnz said:
Between Tubb and JEC... I guess I'll hang out for a little while and see what comes up. I don't need one this week. Also found a buddy that owns a Holland so I can see if I like the location/fit.
Click to expand...


I found a picture of a Holland:

 
fireEMT5 said:
I have a Tubb on my SS5-20 atop my .308 bolt gun. I can't say anything bad about it & really like the fact you can orient it up or down, depending on your needs/preferences. I'm able to stay on the gun/scope & with both eyes open pick up the bubble. Have had zero issues with the mounting. While it doesn't look like much, once mounted, it's minimalist mounting band just works, and works well. The mount band stays out of your way so you can see the turrets beyond. I'd buy another.
Click to expand...

I am using the Tubb also for my F tr rifle and I agree with all of the above.
Bob L
 
Boblor said:
I am using the Tubb also for my F tr rifle and I agree with all of the above.
Bob L
Click to expand...

For those using the Tubb level, any advice on mounting? I've got two and I like them fine once they're mounted but getting them to be level after tightening is an exercise in frustration.
 
Maybe I'm missing something being from flat and level florida...but nobody really uses them here that I see on tac rifles or BR. I've even leaned my rifle over 1-2 degrees and was still ringing steel at 850...after that I thought I don't need a bubble level.
 
finbox said:
Maybe I'm missing something being from flat and level florida...but nobody really uses them here that I see on tac rifles or BR. I've even leaned my rifle over 1-2 degrees and was still ringing steel at 850...after that I thought I don't need a bubble level.
Click to expand...

I shoot in CO, WY and NM and the 338 match goes out to 2600yds and is held in the mountains on sloped ground. I watch alot of shooters when scoring the sporting rifle match which goes out to 900yds and most do not look at their levels there. I rarely see a level bubble on any of the odd shooting positions. The longer ranges is where its value shows up. I try to use mine at 700 plus. I find under that it does not make much difference on my hits.
 
wm.penn said:
For those using the Tubb level, any advice on mounting? I've got two and I like them fine once they're mounted but getting them to be level after tightening is an exercise in frustration.
Click to expand...

I don't think that there is an easy way, but I use a leveled fence-part in my yard and set the rifle to aim exactly at a horizontal part, using a firm rear bag and locked bipod.
- then it's not that hard to half-tighten the band and push it on to position. Off cause it will move again when you tighten it :)

good luck
 
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