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Suppressors New law in KS. Residents can buy suppressors w/out tax stamp

Creature

Gunny Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Oct 23, 2007
981
3
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The suppressor has to be made in Kansas and can't leave Kansas. I found this out today from a class III manufacturer who is planning to do a bunch of .22 suppressors once the law takes effect(July 1st IIRC). Evidently the law states that Kansas firearms and suppressors(specifically mentioned) are not subject to federal law. A couple states have already done this IIRC.

Has anyone heard of this? Anyone know of some good suppressor manufacturers in KS? My guy is only doing .22s at the moment, I need a .338Ti.
 
Yeah I guess Eric Holder and Sam Brownback have been getting into it big time over this lately.
 
I find this hard to believe it will stick as I have to submit a form 1 to manufacture one for myself and it will not leave the state. I fail to see how this will wind up different in the supreme court's eyes or it will unleash a shit storm over the form 1 applicants. I'm all for it as I don't believe there should be nfa for supressors (or sbr/sbs) so I hope it ends well.
 
I dont think I would trust what some manufacturer tells you from the rumor mill. I would wait for July and see what comes of it. I see little to no point in buying a suppressor and having to leave it in state. I like the freedom to move around with mine in legal states.
 
I dont think I would trust what some manufacturer tells you from the rumor mill. I would wait for July and see what comes of it. I see little to no point in buying a suppressor and having to leave it in state. I like the freedom to move around with mine in legal states.

Yeah well I saw the bill and it has already passed and taking effect on July 1. I like the freedom of being able to buy a can and walk out the door with it. I don't leave the state that often.

(b) ‘‘Firearms accessories’’ means items that are used in conjunction
with or mounted upon a firearm but are not essential to the basic function
of a firearm, including, but not limited to, telescopic or laser sights, mag-
azines, flash or SOUND SUPPRESSORS, collapsible or adjustable stocks and
grips, pistol grips, thumbhole stocks, speedloaders, ammunition carriers
and lights for target illumination.
 
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SENATE BILL No. 102
A
N
A
CT
enacting the second amendment protection act.
Be it enacted by the Legislature of the State of Kansas:
Section 1. Sections 1 through 11, and amendments thereto, may be
cited as the second amendment protection act.
Sec. 2. The legislature declares that the authority for sections 1
through 11, and amendments thereto, is the following:
(a) The tenth amendment to the constitution of the United States
guarantees to the states and their people all powers not granted to the
federal government elsewhere in the constitution and reserves to the state
and people of Kansas certain powers as they were understood at the time
that Kansas was admitted to statehood in 1861. The guaranty of those
powers is a matter of contract between the state and people of Kansas
and the United States as of the time that the compact with the United
States was agreed upon and adopted by Kansas in 1859 and the United
States in 1861.
(b) The ninth amendment to the constitution of the United States
guarantees to the people rights not granted in the constitution and re-
serves to the people of Kansas certain rights as they were understood at
the time that Kansas was admitted to statehood in 1861. The guaranty of
those rights is a matter of contract between the state and people of Kansas
and the United States as of the time that the compact with the United
States was agreed upon and adopted by Kansas in 1859 and the United
States in 1861.
(c) The second amendment to the constitution of the United States
reserves to the people, individually, the right to keep and bear arms as
that right was understood at the time that Kansas was admitted to state-
hood in 1861, and the guaranty of that right is a matter of contract be-
tween the state and people of Kansas and the United States as of the time
that the compact with the United States was agreed upon and adopted
by Kansas in 1859 and the United States in 1861.
(d) Section 4 of the bill of rights of the constitution of the state of
Kansas clearly secures to Kansas citizens, and prohibits government in-
terference with, the right of individual Kansas citizens to keep and bear
arms. This constitutional protection is unchanged from the constitution
of the state of Kansas, which was approved by congress and the people
of Kansas, and the right exists as it was understood at the time that the
compact with the United States was agreed upon and adopted by Kansas
in 1859 and the United States in 1861.
Sec. 3. As used in sections 1 through 11, and amendments thereto,
the following definitions apply:
(a) ‘‘Borders of Kansas’’ means the boundaries of Kansas described
in the act for admission of Kansas into the union, 12 stat. 126, ch. 20, §
1.
(b) ‘‘Firearms accessories’’ means items that are used in conjunction
with or mounted upon a firearm but are not essential to the basic function
of a firearm, including, but not limited to, telescopic or laser sights, mag-
azines, flash or sound suppressors, collapsible or adjustable stocks and
grips, pistol grips, thumbhole stocks, speedloaders, ammunition carriers
and lights for target illumination.
(c) ‘‘Manufacture’’ means to assemble using multiple components to
create a more useful finished product.
Sec. 4. (a) A personal firearm, a firearm accessory or ammunition that
is manufactured commercially or privately and owned in Kansas and that
remains within the borders of Kansas is not subject to any federal law,
treaty, federal regulation, or federal executive action, including any fed-
eral firearm or ammunition registration program, under the authority of
congress to regulate interstate commerce. It is declared by the legislature
that those items have not traveled in interstate commerce. This section
applies to a firearm, a firearm accessory or ammunition that is manufac-
tured commercially or privately and owned in the state of Kansas.
(b) Component parts are not firearms, firearms accessories or am-
munition, and their importation into Kansas and incorporation into a fire-
arm, a firearm accessory or ammunition manufactured and owned in Kan-
sas does not subject the firearm, firearm accessory or ammunition to
federal regulation. It is declared by the legislature that such component
parts are not firearms, firearms accessories or ammunition and are not
subject to congressional authority to regulate firearms, firearms acces
 
SENATE BILL No. 102—page 2
sories and ammunition under interstate commerce as if they were actually
firearms, firearms accessories or ammunition.
(c) Firearms accessories that are imported into Kansas from another
state and that are subject to federal regulation as being in interstate com-
merce do not subject a firearm to federal regulation under interstate
commerce because they are attached to or used in conjunction with a
firearm in Kansas.
Sec. 5. A firearm manufactured in Kansas within the meaning of sec-
tions 1 through 11, and amendments thereto, must have the words ‘‘Made
in Kansas’’ clearly stamped on a central metallic part, such as the receiver
or frame.
Sec. 6. (a) Any act, law, treaty, order, rule or regulation of the gov-
ernment of the United States which violates the second amendment to
the constitution of the United States is null, void and unenforceable in
the state of Kansas.
(b) No official, agent or employee of the state of Kansas, or any po-
litical subdivision thereof, shall enforce or attempt to enforce any act, law,
treaty, order, rule or regulation of the government of the United States
regarding any personal firearm, firearm accessory or ammunition that is
manufactured commercially or privately and owned in the state of Kansas
and that remains within the borders of Kansas.
Sec. 7. It is unlawful for any official, agent or employee of the gov-
ernment of the United States, or employee of a corporation providing
services to the government of the United States to enforce or attempt to
enforce any act, law, treaty, order, rule or regulation of the government
of the United States regarding a firearm, a firearm accessory, or ammu-
nition that is manufactured commercially or privately and owned in the
state of Kansas and that remains within the borders of Kansas. Violation
of this section is a severity level 10 nonperson felony. Any criminal pros-
ecution for a violation of this section shall be commenced by service of
complaint and summons upon such official, agent or employee. Such of-
ficial, agent or employee shall not be arrested or otherwise detained prior
to, or during the pendency of, any trial for a violation of this section.
Sec. 8. A county or district attorney, or the attorney general, may
seek injunctive relief in any court of competent jurisdiction to enjoin any
official, agent or employee of the government of the United States or
employee of a corporation providing services to the government of the
United States from enforcing any act, law, treaty, order, rule or regulation
of the government of the United States regarding a firearm, a firearm
accessory, or ammunition that is manufactured commercially or privately
and owned in the state of Kansas and that remains within the borders of
Kansas.
Sec. 9. Sections 1 through 11, and amendments thereto, do not apply
to: (a) A firearm that cannot be carried and used by one person;
(b) ammunition with a projectile that explodes using an explosion of
chemical energy after the projectile leaves the firearm; or
(c) other than shotguns, a firearm that discharges two or more pro-
jectiles with one activation of the trigger or other firing device.
Sec. 10. Sections 1 through 11, and amendments thereto, apply to
firearms, firearms accessories and ammunition that are manufactured, as
defined in section 3, and amendments thereto, owned and remain within
the borders of Kansas on and after October 1, 2009.
Sec. 11. If any provision of sections 1 through 10, and amendments
thereto, or the application to any persons or circumstances is held to be
invalid, such invalidity shall not affect the other provisions or application
of sections 1 through 10, and amendments thereto, and to this end the
provisions of section 1 through 10, and amendments thereto, are declared
to be severable.

SENATE BILL No. 102—page 3
Sec. 12. This act shall take effect and be in force from and after its
publication in the Kansas register.
I hereby certify that the above B
ILL
originated in the
S
ENATE
, and passed that body
S
ENATE
adopted
Conference Committee Report
President of the Senate.
Secretary of the Senate.
Passed the H
OUSE
as amended
H
OUSE
adopted
Conference Committee Report
Speaker of the House.
Chief Clerk of the House.
A
PPROVED
Governor.
 
Because crossing state lines enables federal jurisdiction.
 
You think Federal law doesn't apply at a State level? Lol... I would highly suggest consulting an Attorney first...
 
You think Federal law doesn't apply at a State level? Lol... I would highly suggest consulting an Attorney first...

Do you know how to read? The law makes it a felony for a federal agent to try and enforce federal gun laws against a Kansas resident(who is using a firearm made in KS).
 
Do you know how to read? The law makes it a felony for a federal agent to try and enforce federal gun laws against a Kansas resident(who is using a firearm made in KS).

lol... I love how most Americans don't understand how laws really work from a Federal to the local levels and people think because a State legislature passes it that they somehow get immunity from Federal regulations. What's the highest level in the Judicial system again that has the final say? Lol... but you just do what you want without consulting an Attorney and should you ever end up in Federal court we can all find out how it works out for you...
 
lol... I love how most Americans don't understand how laws really work from a Federal to the local levels and people think because a State legislature passes it that they somehow get immunity from Federal regulations. What's the highest level in the Judicial system again that has the final say? Lol... but you just do what you want without consulting an Attorney and should you ever end up in Federal court we can all find out how it works out for you...

Ever read the Tenth Amendment? Federal law is NOT supposed to trump State law. Although this Republic has been so corrupted that it doesn't work out that way
 
Ever read the Tenth Amendment? Federal law is NOT supposed to trump State law. Although this Republic has been so corrupted that it doesn't work out that way

Ever heard of the US Supreme Court which always has the final say?
 
What Supreme Court ruling nullified the Tenth Amendment? And do you really think that the S.C. trumps the U.S. Constitution?
 
lol... I love how most Americans don't understand how laws really work from a Federal to the local levels and people think because a State legislature passes it that they somehow get immunity from Federal regulations. What's the highest level in the Judicial system again that has the final say? Lol... but you just do what you want without consulting an Attorney and should you ever end up in Federal court we can all find out how it works out for you...

Lol you obviously have a ton of insight to offer to this thread lol lol lol, lol, lol. Are you posting from a mall food court? lol lol lol

I don't why the notion of another state's increased freedom bothers you so much. Excuse me from being supportive of a law that enables us to exercise our 2nd amendment rights the way they were intended. No one knows how this will turn out until it is enacted. This thread is purely informational and wasn't meant to upset you. lol lol lol lol
 
What Supreme Court ruling nullified the Tenth Amendment? And do you really think that the S.C. trumps the U.S. Constitution?

The 10th Amendment does not give the States unlimited authority like you think for starters. Second... The US Supreme court has already ruled on issues such as Interstate Commerce which fall within the Federal jurisdiction and States can NOT supersede Federal law in that retrospect. Now, I'll bet you're already winding up with "WTF does Interstate Commerce regulations have to do with anything?"... Simple. Since almost ALL commercial sales of firearms and firearm parts are done through interstate sales it has already been ruled by the US Supreme Court that they can regulate such affairs. That means that although your wonderful piece of legislation may protect you from Federal Law removing your right to possession, it won't hold up in the Supreme Court as far as sales unless your State wants to immediately cease all interstate commerce of firearms and firearms parts.

It's the same reason why they can legalize marijuana all they want but the Fed's can still arrest you since it's been determined that marijuana is an interstate commerce and therefor under Federal jurisdiction.

Want to consult that attorney yet or do you still think its worth risking a Federal felony because some politician made a politically motivated move without thinking it through all the way? As much as I like that law and would fucking be ecstatic if it could happen everywhere, I know it's filled with loopholes.
 
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Lol you obviously have a ton of insight to offer to this thread lol lol lol, lol, lol. Are you posting from a mall food court? lol lol lol

I don't why the notion of another state's increased freedom bothers you so much. Excuse me from being supportive of a law that enables us to exercise our 2nd amendment rights the way they were intended. No one knows how this will turn out until it is enacted. This thread is purely informational and wasn't meant to upset you. lol lol lol lol

I'm not upset. I'm warning you that you should consult an attorney. I also never said I disagreed with the laws intent. But you keep assuming like an ass that I'm just out to ruin your joy and happiness while you tell everyone to take your word for it on an internet forum because you read a new law and some SOT told you so it must be true.

59545_535356253152057_1558808218_n.jpg
 
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I feel compelled to bite on this one...

It's all in perspective and the willingness of civil disobedience.

Yes, the feds have long since broken the bounds of the constitution. The commerce clause and others have been distorted to make the feds all powerful. You can argue the feds have no authority without interstate movement blah,blah but I suggest you consult Wickard v. Filburn. Does that mean you have to agree with it? No. I for one do not.

It does mean that you must accept the reality that the federal government believes it has this authority, which has been confirmed my the federal government (Supreme Court [funny how that works huh?]).

It's just like saying you believe all federal gun laws (read Missouri) don't apply in your state via the 2nd and 10th amendments. That is an honorable belief, and the correct one, but the beast won't go down that easy. And the feds will win in the (federal) courts [there's that funny thing again]. No one said the courts are on the side of natural law or the constitution, but that doesn't change reality does it.

A state's act of nullification of federal law requires civil disobedience on a state wide level, with the backing of the state, and the understanding that shit might get ugly, and everyone is okay with that and ready for it. If that is not the case, and instead the state legislature (and the people of that state) intended to just do some posturing and aren't willing to use their full force and power, up to and including secession (and therefore war, [see the Confederate States of America]) to that end, it is really just words on paper.

People are beginning to grow some balls. Some are growing backbones. When they begin to grow brains and hearts that truly understand and believe in the preciousness of the natural rights of man kind and their honor in preserving it, and are willing to lose everything for it, than we'll have something. But I'm betting that line won't be drawn in Kansas in July 1 2013 over a $200 tax on suppressors.

It's not as simple as 'read the tenth' or the 2nd or the law just past... the whole thing boils back down to a huge government, with the strongest praetorian guard ever assembled, operating outside of its bounds and oppressing it's citizens. But those citizens are still willingly being oppressed so the nature or severity of the governments' faults have no meaning. Liberty must be fought for and protected, and this usually isn't done 5000 miles away in caves or jungles. It is done at your doorsteps and in your towns, over the bodies of your family and children, with little to no hope of success without first falling to a low so unfathomable you simply stop imagining the scenario, submit, pay the $200 tax, and allow one more overstep of your right to self government for the time being. Is this wrong? That's up to you. You don't see me anywhere fighting a civil war so take my word FWIW, probably nothing. YM(and opinion)MV.

I leave with a quote from Robert Higgs, a Mises Institute Fellow...

"The state is the most destructive institution human beings have ever devised — a fire that, at best, can be controlled for only a short time before it o'erleaps its improvised confinements and spreads its flames far and wide.

Whatever promotes the growth of the state also weakens the capacity of individuals in civil society to fend off the state's depredations and therefore augments the public's multifaceted victimization at the hands of state functionaries. Nothing promotes the growth of the state as much as national emergency — war and other crises comparable to war in the seriousness of the threats they pose.

<b>States, by their very nature, are perpetually at war — not always against foreign foes, of course, but always against their own subjects.</b> The state's most fundamental purpose, the activity without which it cannot even exist, is robbery. The state gains its very sustenance from robbery, which it pretties up ideologically by giving it a different name (taxation) and by striving to sanctify its intrinsic crime as permissible and socially necessary. State propaganda, statist ideologies, and long-established routine combine to convince many people that they have a legitimate obligation, even a moral duty to pay taxes to the state that rules their society.

They fall into such erroneous moral reasoning because they are told incessantly that the tribute they fork over is actually a kind of price paid for essential services received, and that in the case of certain services, such as protection from foreign and domestic aggressors against their rights to life, liberty, and property, only the government can provide the service effectively. They are not permitted to test this claim by resorting to competing suppliers of law, order, and security, however, because the government enforces a monopoly over the production and distribution of its alleged "services" and brings violence to bear against would-be competitors. In so doing, it reveals the fraud at the heart of its impudent claims and gives sufficient proof that it is not a genuine protector, but a mere protection racket."

Hopefully that wasn't too political that I get banned. But I get frustrated with simple declarations that ignore the depth and complexity of issues and the magnitude of the sacrifice and commitment that are required to right wrongs. SO yeah, while I agree with you that it would be a step in the right direction and would be cool... don't hold your breath.
 
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I feel compelled to bite on this one...

It's all in perspective and the willingness of civil disobedience.

Yes, the feds have long since broken the bounds of the constitution. The commerce clause and others have been distorted to make the feds all powerful. You can argue the feds have no authority without interstate movement blah,blah but I suggest you consult Wickard v. Filburn. Does that mean you have to agree with it? No. I for one do not.

It does mean that you must accept the reality that the federal government believes it has this authority, which has been confirmed my the federal government (Supreme Court [funny how that works huh?]).

It's just like saying you believe all federal gun laws (read Missouri) don't apply in your state via the 2nd and 10th amendments. That is an honorable belief, and the correct one, but the beast won't go down that easy. And the feds will win in the (federal) courts [there's that funny thing again]. No one said the courts are on the side of natural law or the constitution, but that doesn't change reality does it.

A state's act of nullification of federal law requires civil disobedience on a state wide level, with the backing of the state, and the understanding that shit might get ugly, and everyone is okay with that and ready for it. If that is not the case, and instead the state legislature (and the people of that state) intended to just do some posturing and aren't willing to use their full force and power, up to and including secession (and therefore war, [see the Confederate States of America]) to that end, it is really just words on paper.

People are beginning to grow some balls. Some are growing backbones. When they begin to grow brains and hearts that truly understand and believe in the preciousness of the natural rights of man kind and their honor in preserving it, and are willing to lose everything for it, than we'll have something. But I'm betting that line won't be drawn in Kansas in July 1 2013 over a $200 tax on suppressors.

It's not as simple as 'read the tenth' or the 2nd or the law just past... the whole thing boils back down to a huge government, with the strongest praetorian guard ever assembled, operating outside of its bounds and oppressing it's citizens. But those citizens are still willingly being oppressed so the nature or severity of the governments' faults have no meaning. Liberty must be fought for and protected, and this usually isn't done 5000 miles away in caves or jungles. It is done at your doorsteps and in your towns, over the bodies of your family and children, with little to no hope of success without first falling to a low so unfathomable you simply stop imagining the scenario, submit, pay the $200 tax, and allow one more overstep of your right to self government for the time being. Is this wrong? That's up to you. You don't see me anywhere fighting a civil war so take my word FWIW, probably nothing. YM(and opinion)MV.

I leave with a quote from Robert Higgs, a Mises Institute Fellow...

"The state is the most destructive institution human beings have ever devised — a fire that, at best, can be controlled for only a short time before it o'erleaps its improvised confinements and spreads its flames far and wide.

Whatever promotes the growth of the state also weakens the capacity of individuals in civil society to fend off the state's depredations and therefore augments the public's multifaceted victimization at the hands of state functionaries. Nothing promotes the growth of the state as much as national emergency — war and other crises comparable to war in the seriousness of the threats they pose.

<b>States, by their very nature, are perpetually at war — not always against foreign foes, of course, but always against their own subjects.</b> The state's most fundamental purpose, the activity without which it cannot even exist, is robbery. The state gains its very sustenance from robbery, which it pretties up ideologically by giving it a different name (taxation) and by striving to sanctify its intrinsic crime as permissible and socially necessary. State propaganda, statist ideologies, and long-established routine combine to convince many people that they have a legitimate obligation, even a moral duty to pay taxes to the state that rules their society.

They fall into such erroneous moral reasoning because they are told incessantly that the tribute they fork over is actually a kind of price paid for essential services received, and that in the case of certain services, such as protection from foreign and domestic aggressors against their rights to life, liberty, and property, only the government can provide the service effectively. They are not permitted to test this claim by resorting to competing suppliers of law, order, and security, however, because the government enforces a monopoly over the production and distribution of its alleged "services" and brings violence to bear against would-be competitors. In so doing, it reveals the fraud at the heart of its impudent claims and gives sufficient proof that it is not a genuine protector, but a mere protection racket."

Hopefully that wasn't too political that I get banned. But I get frustrated with simple declarations that ignore the depth and complexity of issues and the magnitude of the sacrifice and commitment that are required to right wrongs. SO yeah, while I agree with you that it would be a step in the right direction and would be cool... don't hold your breath.

Thats why I love Texan's
 
Thats why I love Texan's

Believe it or not, that rant came from a native Michigander who didn't move from that state until he was 22. I was a Bush Conservative than, moved to Nebraska for three years and actual had my fcoming of age as a Libertarian/Constitutionalist while living in California. I've only been in the Republic of Texas for a little over 3 years, put how proud I am to have conversations like the one above nearly every single day with people of all ages. My 3 sisters and I are all starting families now, no one else has left. I am asked at least weekly why I just won't move back 'home' so our children can play as cousins while they grow up. I just can't get myself to do it. It is so depressing in the Michigan and the Detroit area. The hope is lost. At least here there is some resemblance of sanity left for the time being. But even this place is getting sick and looking blue in the face.

May God Bless Texas (and humble those in Austin, Houston, Dallas, and San Antonio).
 
If it all comes down as slick as it sounds it would be great. Hate to be Mr. Negative, but guessing it won't. Now if it does, just think about how frustrating it is going to be when 4 or 5 KS Suppressor manufactures pop up here that have virtually no history in the suppressor business. If it is similar to any other new manufacture delivery will suck, likely the suppressors will also. Who is gonna start the group buy early on this one?

Think I will continue on the route of dishing out $200 for the little stamp until everything settles in.
 
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Utah has had the same law for the last two years..... It's very nice because nobody ever asks for your NFA tax stamp and cops don't even blink at suppressors

http://le.utah.gov/~2010/bills/sbillint/sb0011.pdf

I hope this is the case everywhere these laws are passed. But to be clear in my understanding, there are Utah suppressor manufacturers and dealers working together to sell suppressors to individuals and not requiring tax stamps? If so, excellent news for liberty in Utah.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2
 
I hope this is the case everywhere these laws are passed. But to be clear in my understanding, there are Utah suppressor manufacturers and dealers working together to sell suppressors to individuals and not requiring tax stamps? If so, excellent news for liberty in Utah.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

Big company's like silencer co still require the NFA tax stamp but their are smaller ones that don't .... But it's not like their being sold in Walmart either
 
Big company's like silencer co still require the NFA tax stamp but their are smaller ones that don't .... But it's not like their being sold in Walmart either

Good to know.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2
 
I dont think I would trust what some manufacturer tells you from the rumor mill. I would wait for July and see what comes of it. I see little to no point in buying a suppressor and having to leave it in state. I like the freedom to move around with mine in legal states.

Seems ironic at best, that you pay for a tax and permission slip to have a device that they would imprison you over otherwise and somehow include the word "freedom" in any text of your statement. I think freedom has been Long lost on people. That's not freedom because you can take your collection of cans to play somewhere out of state...
 
Seems ironic at best, that you pay for a tax and permission slip to have a device that they would imprison you over otherwise and somehow include the word "freedom" in any text of your statement. I think freedom has been Long lost on people. That's not freedom because you can take your collection of cans to play somewhere out of state...

Let's not turn this into another political boo hoo post. Yes we are being challenged in our 2nd amendment freedoms but I am confident we will be fine. Maybe one day all of this NFA stuff with go away.
But until then I will continue to pay the tax stamp and enjoy my suppressors, and take them with me when I want to travel. That is the whole point I was making.
 
Big company's like silencer co still require the NFA tax stamp but their are smaller ones that don't .... But it's not like their being sold in Walmart either

Which UT suppressor manufacturers have actually sold suppressors directly to a UT resident? I have been waiting to see which manufacturer would actually do it after SB11 passed.
 
I hope this is the case everywhere these laws are passed. But to be clear in my understanding, there are Utah suppressor manufacturers and dealers working together to sell suppressors to individuals and not requiring tax stamps? If so, excellent news for liberty in Utah.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

Which UT suppressor manufacturers have actually sold suppressors directly to a UT resident? I have been waiting to see which manufacturer would actually do it after SB11 passed.

Cough cough ATF agent cough cough
 
Wyoming passed the same law and I have yet to see or even hear of a company making and selling suppressors without doing all the paperwork and tax stamps. I have bought cans direct from TBAC as I am a lifelong resident of WY and they are in WY and if they won't do it then obviously there is a reason why they wouldn't capitalize on the situation....too much grey area.
 
According to the Supreme Court of the US, that would be the County Sheriff.

The Supreme Court IS the highest authority. You can't remove a Justice from office, they have to retire, die, or lose their license to practice. They can strike down any law or regulation whether it be local, State, or Federal and NO ONE can over-rule them or reverse their decision but them. By those actions they can also create laws and policies. The US Supreme Court Justices in respect to law making are more powerful than the Executive and Legislative Branch combined. So please enlighten me as to how a County Sheriff is more powerful than that seeing as they can't even create laws but simply enforce them?
 
I feel compelled to bite on this one...

It's all in perspective and the willingness of civil disobedience.

Yes, the feds have long since broken the bounds of the constitution. The commerce clause and others have been distorted to make the feds all powerful. You can argue the feds have no authority without interstate movement blah,blah but I suggest you consult Wickard v. Filburn. Does that mean you have to agree with it? No. I for one do not.

It does mean that you must accept the reality that the federal government believes it has this authority, which has been confirmed my the federal government (Supreme Court [funny how that works huh?]).

It's just like saying you believe all federal gun laws (read Missouri) don't apply in your state via the 2nd and 10th amendments. That is an honorable belief, and the correct one, but the beast won't go down that easy. And the feds will win in the (federal) courts [there's that funny thing again]. No one said the courts are on the side of natural law or the constitution, but that doesn't change reality does it.

A state's act of nullification of federal law requires civil disobedience on a state wide level, with the backing of the state, and the understanding that shit might get ugly, and everyone is okay with that and ready for it. If that is not the case, and instead the state legislature (and the people of that state) intended to just do some posturing and aren't willing to use their full force and power, up to and including secession (and therefore war, [see the Confederate States of America]) to that end, it is really just words on paper.

People are beginning to grow some balls. Some are growing backbones. When they begin to grow brains and hearts that truly understand and believe in the preciousness of the natural rights of man kind and their honor in preserving it, and are willing to lose everything for it, than we'll have something. But I'm betting that line won't be drawn in Kansas in July 1 2013 over a $200 tax on suppressors.

It's not as simple as 'read the tenth' or the 2nd or the law just past... the whole thing boils back down to a huge government, with the strongest praetorian guard ever assembled, operating outside of its bounds and oppressing it's citizens. But those citizens are still willingly being oppressed so the nature or severity of the governments' faults have no meaning. Liberty must be fought for and protected, and this usually isn't done 5000 miles away in caves or jungles. It is done at your doorsteps and in your towns, over the bodies of your family and children, with little to no hope of success without first falling to a low so unfathomable you simply stop imagining the scenario, submit, pay the $200 tax, and allow one more overstep of your right to self government for the time being. Is this wrong? That's up to you. You don't see me anywhere fighting a civil war so take my word FWIW, probably nothing. YM(and opinion)MV.

I leave with a quote from Robert Higgs, a Mises Institute Fellow...

"The state is the most destructive institution human beings have ever devised — a fire that, at best, can be controlled for only a short time before it o'erleaps its improvised confinements and spreads its flames far and wide.

Whatever promotes the growth of the state also weakens the capacity of individuals in civil society to fend off the state's depredations and therefore augments the public's multifaceted victimization at the hands of state functionaries. Nothing promotes the growth of the state as much as national emergency — war and other crises comparable to war in the seriousness of the threats they pose.

States, by their very nature, are perpetually at war — not always against foreign foes, of course, but always against their own subjects. The state's most fundamental purpose, the activity without which it cannot even exist, is robbery. The state gains its very sustenance from robbery, which it pretties up ideologically by giving it a different name (taxation) and by striving to sanctify its intrinsic crime as permissible and socially necessary. State propaganda, statist ideologies, and long-established routine combine to convince many people that they have a legitimate obligation, even a moral duty to pay taxes to the state that rules their society.

They fall into such erroneous moral reasoning because they are told incessantly that the tribute they fork over is actually a kind of price paid for essential services received, and that in the case of certain services, such as protection from foreign and domestic aggressors against their rights to life, liberty, and property, only the government can provide the service effectively. They are not permitted to test this claim by resorting to competing suppliers of law, order, and security, however, because the government enforces a monopoly over the production and distribution of its alleged "services" and brings violence to bear against would-be competitors. In so doing, it reveals the fraud at the heart of its impudent claims and gives sufficient proof that it is not a genuine protector, but a mere protection racket."

Hopefully that wasn't too political that I get banned. But I get frustrated with simple declarations that ignore the depth and complexity of issues and the magnitude of the sacrifice and commitment that are required to right wrongs. SO yeah, while I agree with you that it would be a step in the right direction and would be cool... don't hold your breath.

I wish I could have said it better. Great post man...
 
The Supreme Court IS the highest authority. You can't remove a Justice from office, they have to retire, die, or lose their license to practice. They can strike down any law or regulation whether it be local, State, or Federal and NO ONE can over-rule them or reverse their decision but them. By those actions they can also create laws and policies. The US Supreme Court Justices in respect to law making are more powerful than the Executive and Legislative Branch combined. So please enlighten me as to how a County Sheriff is more powerful than that seeing as they can't even create laws but simply enforce them?

See Mack v. USA here: Mack vs. Brady - 10 years after a defeat of the Brady Bill,... then the NRA Turns on us,... again.

The Sheriff is the supreme law enforcement officer in any county, and as such, has the discretion to determine which laws are and are not Constitutional in his jurisdiction.

Who said that? yep. SCOTUS

So, they must not think they're the highest authority.

And, any Federal Judge or Justice can be impeached. So, you're wrong there, too.
 
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I wish I could have checked my 'gun-stuff-fund' faster after I got home and pulled the trigger on your USO!

Sorry man. In all fairness it went to someone who hit me up before you. I might have some other deals coming on some nice Vortex soon though so...
 
See Mack v. USA here: Mack vs. Brady - 10 years after a defeat of the Brady Bill,... then the NRA Turns on us,... again.

The Sheriff is the supreme law enforcement officer in any county, and as such, has the discretion to determine which laws are and are not Constitutional in his jurisdiction.

Who said that? yep. SCOTUS

So, they must not think they're the highest authority.

And, any Federal Judge or Justice can be impeached. So, you're wrong there, too.

There's a difference between a Federal Judge and a Supreme court Judge and you can not Impeach a US Supreme Court Justice, so know the difference. As for the latter the US Supreme Court did not sucede their right to ruling on decisions of a Sheriff so you're trying to twist it into something it's not. They still hold the final say so as they did in that case as well. And a Sheriff can not create laws that govern an entire country or even their own county. Try again...

Add: If you're going to cite a resource, please find something more credible than a conspiracy theory independent site. Just reading that story I can find 1/2 a dozen points of editorial embellishment and opinionated interpretation that the author is trying to relay as factual when it's not.

Another Add: I referenced what you think of as impeached, and unlike a politician they have to be convicted and found guilty in which they would lose their license to practice as I already stated.
 
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There's a difference between a Federal Judge and a Supreme court Judge and you can not Impeach a US Supreme Court Justice, so know the difference. As for the latter the US Supreme Court did not sucede their right to ruling on decisions of a Sheriff so you're trying to twist it into something it's not. They still hold the final say so as they did in that case as well. And a Sheriff can not create laws that govern an entire country or even their own county. Try again...

Add: If you're going to cite a resource, please find something more credible than a conspiracy theory independent site. Just reading that story I can find 1/2 a dozen points of editorial embellishment and opinionated interpretation that the author is trying to relay as factual when it's not.

Another Add: I referenced what you think of as impeached, and unlike a politician they have to be convicted and found guilty in which they would lose their license to practice as I already stated.


read 'me and weep knucklehead.

https://www.google.com/search?q=fir...=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari#itp=open0
 
Uhhhh.... The US Supreme Court or ANY court cannot make a law. They simply interpret the law as the way it was thought to be. The legislative branch.... Congress.... Makes the laws