expander ball diameter size for .308?

[wayno1]

Hi
Thanks for checking this post. Need help.
Cartridge .308, brass FC Match 1x fired. Rem 700 PSS rifle 26/12 bbl, 1/12"

Problem - after resizing with Whidden die and ball expander, neck is too loose to hold bullet.
This is the first time I am using the Whidden resizing die with FC brass

The ball expander mics out to .3055

My thinking is that the FC brass is too thin.

I have a set of Dillon resizing dies, but the resizer does not have a ball expander in it.
they are meant to be used with their expander/powder measure die.
I ran the FC brass through the dillon resizer when I first got the brass., then trimmed to 2.005 length
They held the bullet fine, but obviously had no expanded the necks.

Tried a couple of pieces of 'loose' brass and ran them though the Dillon resizer backed off, then slowly lowered the sizer
die until it narrowed the brass just enough where it was hard to push a bullet into the case.

Suggestions?

Thanks!
Wayne

 

[ChrisGarrett]

Measure the necks at a few places, double that number and remove the expander ball entirely, since you're shooting through a bolt gun. Size some cases and measure the outside diameter and subtract the number that you get from doubling the neck wall thickness and that will be your neck constriction.

If your ball is micing at .3055", that's just about spot on, but since we presume that your throat is concentric, you might just be able to get some tension on the bullet without using it, but that's just a guess, since the ball is already a tad undersized (.306") relative to many expander balls found in commercial dies.

It could be that the neck opening diameter on your die is not small enough to handle the thin walls found on that batch of FC brass.

ETA:

I've got two Dillon rifle die sets--22-250 and 7 RemMag, going way back and both have carbide expander balls on the decapping stem, FWIW.

Chris

 

[rjacobs]

The only Dillon die I have ever seen that was a "sizing die" but doesnt have an expander/decapper assembly in it are the ones that are designed to be used with the RT1200 electric trimmer setup.

Now thats not to say something wasnt made in the past like what you have as I have only been reloading for about 5 years or so and Dillon has obviously been around WAY longer than that.

 

[wayno1]

this stuff is 20+ years old. time to call dillon and get a new die, or a new set!!!

 

[wayno1]

Thanks, will try that!

 

[rjacobs]

If you are buying new dies check out the Forster stuff. WAY nicer than Dillon and way more precise as well IMO.

I still like Dillon dies for stuff like 9mm and 45, but to me, they are not that precision oriented.

 

[bricktop]

Are you sure it's not a bushing die and there is no (or the incorrect) bushing in it?

 

[ChrisGarrett]

Are you sure it's not a bushing die and there is no (or the incorrect) bushing in it?

Good call, as he makes a standard sizing die and a bushing die.

My money is on 'did I buy a bushing die, for $500, Alex'.

Chris

 

[wayno1]

Well, that's why I got the Whidden FL die. I tweaked it down little by little to achieve a .002 pushback on the shoulder as many recommend, but the neck doesn't size enought to hold the bullet.
I don't think it's the expander, the neck isn't being sized.

 

[bricktop]

Well, that's why I got the Whidden FL die. I tweaked it down little by little to achieve a .002 pushback on the shoulder as many recommend, but the neck doesn't size enought to hold the bullet.
I don't think it's the expander, the neck isn't being sized.

You can still bump the shoulder with no bushing in a bushing die. Some people do this on purpose to use it only as a body die. Both his non-bushing and bushing dies are full-length. It could have just been a mix-up if you ordered the regular die and got a bushing die.

I think sometimes the neck can drag on the part of the die that sticks out to hold the bushing (especially if you have generous neck clearance in the chamber), making it look like it was sized, just not enough (if you get vertical streaks on the outside of the neck). I'd disassemble the die and look inside to see if it looks like there is fixed metal in the neck area or a void that looks like something should go there. There is always the outside chance that it was machined wrong, but his stuff has a great reputation.

 

[wayno1]

Thanks, the necks look a little streaked. will call him tomorrow...maybe just need a bushing insert....

 

[wayno1]

Ordered .333-337 Redding nitride bushings from Midway.
Will go from there.

 

[ChrisGarrett]

Ordered .333-337 Redding nitride bushings from Midway.
Will go from there.

So that was the problem, no bushing?

Don't feel bad.

I bought my first bushing die, a 7RM neck sizer and didn't know 'exactly' what the concept entailed.

I prep up 50 cases for my Sendero, weigh each charge on my beam scale, funnel those charges into the cases and proceed onto seating my bullets.

First one goes plunk...straight onto the powder column. Well, that's weird. Go to seat the second one and plunk again. Well, I'm now realizing that I didn't miss two cases and what's the chance that if I did miss two, they're the first two I tried? Not likely. I ended trying them all and realizing, after getting the instructions out, that I needed these things called 'bushings'!

I have backups, so I got the Dillon out and removed the expanding rod and resized them all and finished that batch, IIRC.


Chris

 

[wayno1]

LOL ! I know EXACTLY how you feel. I thought I had ordered the regular FL die, but I would have gone to the bushing dies eventually, so the Lord watches out for children and fools... ordered a redding competition bushing die along with the redding nitride bushings, as backup for the whidden.

SO, went and pulled out my dillon resizer, tweaked it down watching the neck start to get resizer, little by little, cranked it down until it resized the neck, and since I had some other brass from another rem 700 tweaked a little more until the neck was resized and had bumped the shoulder back .002 to 1.612 for all the cases. ( unfied Fed GMM is 1.610 on my comparator).
Before I did them all tied cycling some through the rifle making sure the bolt would close.
The ran them through the whidden with the die raised up and the expander ball down so I expanded the case mouths to .307.
Will trim to 2.005 and debur the cases and try some more loads.
Right now 42.9-43.0 grains of Varget to 2.80 OAL is really tight at 100 yards. Time is tight...

Have my first F class match this weekend. If the handload proceduras poop out have a backup 400 rd case of REAL fed GMM 168 SMK to fall back on.