Im looking at building a scout rifle with either a Remington 700 or a 7, but have a special requirement for it. It needs to shoot to 700 yards for a series of courses Id Like to go to. Ive pickee out glass for the rifle, as well as a scope mount and I have special plans for a flashhider. The barrel should be about 19" long, the overall length should be 36", and the unloaded weight should be between 6.6 and 7.7 pounds. Calibre must be .308, and the rifle should have detectable magazines. Any gunsmithing that will need done, I will learn and do it myself.
- Thread starter exohead
- Start date
is there a question here or are you starting a thread for your future project?
there's a whole thread on shorty 16 inch 308's on here and a few guys have done bieber rifles
there's a whole thread on shorty 16 inch 308's on here and a few guys have done bieber rifles
Basically Im trying to see what people's thoughts on the idea are. I saw the shorty rifles thread, but thought this should have its own thread since its not just about the barrel. The main question here is can this be done, and what will it take to do it?
I'd say go with a longer barrel.....I have mine at 24 on my 308...some will argue that you dont loose velocity but my thoughts are the more muzzle flash you have the more powder isn't used= lower velocity....
More velocity means less windage and elevation....
Also mass times velocity(squared)....the more velocity you have the harder it will hit....velocity kills....not mass (within reason)
More velocity means less windage and elevation....
Also mass times velocity(squared)....the more velocity you have the harder it will hit....velocity kills....not mass (within reason)
Is it still feasible with the 19" barrel? I specified 19" because the idea here is to build a scout-style rifle to the definition, which specifies a 19" barrel length, that doubles as a sniper rifle good to 700yds. But if its not possible, say so.
19" is not THAT short... heavy bullet, rather fast twist and faster powder than your average .308. It won´t be trouble for a reloader (did 1000 with a 16" alright), but will probably scratch your head with standard factory loads.
I don't currently reload, but when I can afford quality equipment I plan to learn. Its something Ive wanted to learn for quite some time.
It is certainly do-able. I've had a 16.5" 308 out to 730 yards with both 155's and 168 Hybrids. Go for it.
Shorty's rule.
Shorty's rule.
It sounds like you are the perfect candidate for a PredatOBR from LaRue. Though not a bolt-action, it would do what you need it to do, have the flash hider, and detachable magazine out of the box. Though I must say, any scout scope is going to suck at 700 yards.
Im not sure if a semi-automatic rifle fits the Scout definition or not. The definition only says "individually operated" but doesn't specify a type of action per se.
What is important? Definitions or having the best tool for the job? If the semi does the job best, I'd go that route.
Well, honestly the job in question is to test the scout rifle concept in a battlefield/combat scenario, rather than a hunting scenario. I'd like to see if it can accomplish a scout's role on the battlefield. To do so, it needs to be "by the book". I'd probably get both, but for the purposes of the task at hand, the as-defined scout rifle is pretty much required for the job.
Otherwise, I agree. Right tool for the job.
Otherwise, I agree. Right tool for the job.
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So in other words, sounds like the semi-auto is more desirable 
In all honesty, though, I believe Cooper's inspiration was the Winchester M94, which is a lever-action. I believe Spring offers rifles marketed as "Scout" rifles based on the M1A platform. But anyway, going with a commercially produced semi-auto is one idea that would make things simple for you.
In all honesty, though, I believe Cooper's inspiration was the Winchester M94, which is a lever-action. I believe Spring offers rifles marketed as "Scout" rifles based on the M1A platform. But anyway, going with a commercially produced semi-auto is one idea that would make things simple for you.
So in other words, sounds like the semi-auto is more desirable
I'm not sure I follow your logic. I agree the semi-auto would make things simpler, though.
I was saying the semi-auto would be better "on the battlefield".
You may be missing the idea here. The idea is to translate the rifle as-defined by Cooper from the square range to the battlefield and see if it still works in a scout/sniper role.
Black Ops Precision's Bolt action battle rifle is pretty damn close to what you're asking. Check it out
BlackOps Precision » Archive » SPECTER-BABR RIFLE
I'm sure you fit a forward mounted EER scope on there
BlackOps Precision » Archive » SPECTER-BABR RIFLE
I'm sure you fit a forward mounted EER scope on there
That rifle is gorgeous. A couple questions: How long is it (both barrel and overall) and can the weight be brought down? Could the factory rail be removed and the rear bridge modified for stripper clips? Also, why do the BUIS look like they don't cowitness?
Yes, I get the idea. I'm pointing out that the LaRue would fit the roll. Cooper's original inspiration was a lever-action and there are other semi-autos marketed as "scout rifles". Honestly, I think Cooper's concept was kind of silly honestly, but to each their own. Good luck on your project, should be fun no matter what you choose to do.
Ill consider it, just like Im considering the BABR, but either probably needs modified to bring it into spec
this made me giggle, WTF is "into spec"?
so lemme get this whole concept correct, you want to follow some lame ass definition of a "scout rifle" and test it for "the battlefield" but not follow the definition in that you want it to go out to 700 yards? Am I understanding this correctly? as I am not a coniseur of ghey rifles I had to google "cooper scout rifle concept" and wiki says the definition is-
An unloaded weight, with accessories, of 3 kg (6.6 lbs); with 3.5 kilograms (7.7 lbs) the maximum acceptable.
An overall length of 1 meter (39.4 in.) or less. These two characteristics place scout rifles into the general class of carbines.
A forward-mounted telescopic sight of low magnification, typically 2 to 3 power. This preserves the shooter's peripheral vision, keeps the ejection port open to allow the use of stripper clips to reload the rifle, and eliminates any chance of the scope striking one's brow during recoil. Cooper has stated that a telescopic sight is not mandatory.
Ghost ring auxiliary iron sights: a rear sight consisting of a receiver-mounted large-aperture thin ring, and typically a square post front sight. This allows the rifle to be accurately aimed at short to medium ranges even if the scope becomes damaged.
A "Ching" or "CW" sling. Against common practice, Cooper advocated the use of a sling as a shooting aid. The Ching sling offers the convenience of a carrying strap and the steadiness of a target shooter's sling with the speed of a biathlete's sling. (The CW sling is a simpler version of a Ching sling, consisting of a single strap.)
A standard chambering of .308 Winchester/7.62x51mm NATO or 7mm-08 Remington for locales that forbid civilian ownership of cartridges in chamberings adopted by military forces or for its "slightly better ballistics."[2] As Cooper wrote, "A true Scout comes in .308 or 7mm-08."[3] The .243 Winchester is an alternative for young, small-framed, or recoil-shy people, but needs a 22" barrel. Cooper also commissioned "Lion Scout," chambered for the .350 Remington Magnum cartridge.
Accuracy: Should be capable of shooting into 2 minutes of angle or less (4") at 200 yards/meters (3 shot groups).
I'm not trying to be a dick but i'm confused as a mofo as to the point or concept of this build if you keep saying "into spec" if you arent even following the desired spec?
The scout rifle has it's niche, it has it's purpose, but a 700 yard sniper is not it's intended purpose
Edit to add- forgot to say, sure it can be done but why? I ask why because there are way better suited rifles to achieve what yer looking for not falling into the limiting definition of scout rifle
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I'm planning to go to some scout courses at Sigma III Survival School in Arkansas, and one of the required items for a course is a precision rifle capable of a 700 yard shot, and another is for 1000 yards. I don't plan to take this rifle for the 1000yd course, but for all of the other courses. That being said, after the course the only real shooting at that distance that I'll be doing will be on the range, but the rifle needs to meet that requirement of 700yds. More their requirement than mine.
ok I'm tracking exo, so why not just build the lightest weight 700 yard gun possible, why cling to the "scout rifle" definition?
With today's tech, the scout concept isn't really needed anymore. An accurate, light rifle with a 3-12 or 1-8 or hell, 3-21 optic will still have plenty FOV at low power for rapid engagement and still help you at distance. Finding a modern rifle that takes stripper clips (the whole reason for the forward "scout" style optic) is next to impossible. However, we now have magazine fed rifles. I guess what I'm saying is to take the idea and driving thought of the scout rifle and apply modern technology to it. The result should be much easier to build and meet your requirements.
Per their definition, they want you to have a precision rifle and not a scout rifle. Again, why adhere to the "scout" concept? Sounds like to me the LaRue fits your need very ideally.
