Tubb Final Finish

#3
I just used it on a brand new .308 semi. It did seem to make a difference- there was a noticeable amount more copper in the bore after the first five rounds compared to the last.

Whether I'll notice a difference? Not sure. I don't clean my rifle any more than I have to, don't know how I'd measure the difference.
 
#4
I have used the Final Finish bullets in guns with non premium barrels with noticeable accuracy improvements. An M1a and an AR and a 10-22. I doubt you would have any benefit from pushing them down a Krieger or a Rock.
 
#6
I ran throat maintenance bullets as they instructed on my 243 rock barrel every 200 rounds. I'll admit it didn't foul, that bore was slick. Unfortunately the barrel is done at 1000 rounds. I can't say the final finish played a part in it. Its a 243, shooting 115's and H4350 in a 25" tube. From what I've learned that powder eats throats badly. My next 243 will be 27" and shooting a slower powder. As for the final finish, that barrel shots lights out and maintained the accuracy and speed until I hit that 1000 mark so who knows if it helped or hurt. I probably won't run them in this next barrel. But if I had a factory barrel, I would definately try them again.
 
#7
2Shots,

It's not the H4350 that's eating your barrel; it's the 115 grain bullets in a 243. A thousand rounds is pretty typical accuracy life for this combo, regardless of the powder type. Some may go a bit more, others a bit less, but we're talking maybe a hundred rounds in either direction. Heavy bullets in overbore cartridges equal rapid throat wear, simple as that.
 
#8
2shots I shot the same combo you did and TMS rounds every couple hundred in my old .243. I was at 1800 rounds when I sold it and it was still 1/2 MOA. It was my main match rifle for a few years and was shot hard. How bad was your accuracy at 1000 rounds?
 
#10
Rob01 said:
2shots I shot the same combo you did and TMS rounds every couple hundred in my old .243. I was at 1800 rounds when I sold it and it was still 1/2 MOA. It was my main match rifle for a few years and was shot hard. How bad was your accuracy at 1000 rounds?
Click to expand...

My accuracy was still great, the velocity dropped off badly. Like from the same load 42.2 H4350 running 3040 give or take to 2875
 
#11
In general, I am not a fan of running abrasives down the bore - especially not at 3000 fps. On a quality rifle like a GAP with a quality barrel like a Bartlein? Fuck no!
 
#13
2Shots said:
My accuracy was still great, the velocity dropped off badly. Like from the same load 42.2 H4350 running 3040 give or take to 2875
Click to expand...

That's really odd. I never lost any velocity. My load was 42.5grns with the 115 moly and got 2990fps. when I went to BN bullets I had to drop to 42.2grns to get the same 2990fps where my rifle shot best. That's a huge drop you had. I wonder if you got a slow lot of H4350.
 
#15
2Shots said:
I ran throat maintenance bullets as they instructed on my 243 rock barrel every 200 rounds. I'll admit it didn't foul, that bore was slick. Unfortunately the barrel is done at 1000 rounds. I can't say the final finish played a part in it. Its a 243, shooting 115's and H4350 in a 25" tube. From what I've learned that powder eats throats badly. My next 243 will be 27" and shooting a slower powder. As for the final finish, that barrel shots lights out and maintained the accuracy and speed until I hit that 1000 mark so who knows if it helped or hurt. I probably won't run them in this next barrel. But if I had a factory barrel, I would definately try them again.
Click to expand...

I shoot a 28" kreiger with H4831SC... Get u more speed than u will want...
 
#17
The_Count said:
Lets say you have a factory barrel that shoots .5 moa. Would you use the FF on it?
Click to expand...

Half moa at what distance???

I see so many people wasting bullets at 100 yards working a load and then wonder why their groups suffer at distance...
Not saying this is you... But give the bullet some time in the air... 3 or 400 yards is a great spot to do load work up...
 
#18
Rob01 said:
That's really odd. I never lost any velocity. My load was 42.5grns with the 115 moly and got 2990fps. when I went to BN bullets I had to drop to 42.2grns to get the same 2990fps where my rifle shot best. That's a huge drop you had. I wonder if you got a slow lot of H4350.
Click to expand...

I suppose it's possible. I started a new 8# can about that time. I checked my throat erosion about 800 rounds and it had worn .055",I figured that was a large part of it. I pulled the bullet out to about 2.860 and the velocity came back some but not all the way. I have a second can of H4350 from a different batch I may do some testing. But I better hurry, I am shooting my 260 again and the .243 is in the barrel vise as we speak! I'll report back.
 
#19
2Shots said:
I ran throat maintenance bullets as they instructed on my 243 rock barrel every 200 rounds. I'll admit it didn't foul, that bore was slick. Unfortunately the barrel is done at 1000 rounds. I can't say the final finish played a part in it. Its a 243, shooting 115's and H4350 in a 25" tube. From what I've learned that powder eats throats badly. My next 243 will be 27" and shooting a slower powder. As for the final finish, that barrel shots lights out and maintained the accuracy and speed until I hit that 1000 mark so who knows if it helped or hurt. I probably won't run them in this next barrel. But if I had a factory barrel, I would definately try them again.
Click to expand...


nitride the next 1....
 
#21
Ring said:
nitride the next 1....
Click to expand...

I have been considering doing that, I haven't really be convinced that accuracy won't change from being coated but the barrel life sure should be greatly extended. Any real world experience would be appreciated, and not on a fadtory AR barrel but a lapped custom barrel with a throat burner cartridge.
 
#22
jwp6114 said:
Half moa at what distance???

I see so many people wasting bullets at 100 yards working a load and then wonder why their groups suffer at distance...
Not saying this is you... But give the bullet some time in the air... 3 or 400 yards is a great spot to do load work up...
Click to expand...

I understand where you are coming from. I was specifically thinking about my last set of 100 yd groups. I have found that groups out to 500 fall in the same area .5-.70 MOA. Lets be honest, though, groups past 100 yds are far more susceptible to influence from the wind. I think that is why many guys like to know their groups at 100. Far more rifles are capable of that than there are shooters. It takes an immense amount of concentration, and control to shoot a small group at any distance. Once you understand what you have to do it might become "Old Hat" but for me, a newish shooter, it is quite the challenge.



justinbaker said:
Hell no!

That's great for a factory barrel.
Click to expand...

Thanks, It seemed to start coming together at around 300 (Uncleaned) down the pipe. Last session out of three groups shot the average was in the high .5 to .6 MOA at 100 YDS.
 
#23
The count- what you may find if you used the Final Finish is that while your gun may not shoot more accurately, it probably won't take anywhere near 300 rounds since the last cleaning to settle in.
 
#24
2Shots said:
I have been considering doing that, I haven't really be convinced that accuracy won't change from being coated but the barrel life sure should be greatly extended. Any real world experience would be appreciated, and not on a fadtory AR barrel but a lapped custom barrel with a throat burner cartridge.
Click to expand...


my reviews..
https://sites.google.com/site/freeballisticcalculator/black-nitride-melonite-and-qpq

ive done close to 16 guns/barrels now for me and my and friends... most are lapped match guns, schillen, kreiger, others... did 3 260's, and my 243wssm

this is the last one i did last week...





this was the 1st test target it did for load development...


 
#25
Ring said:
my reviews..
https://sites.google.com/site/freeballisticcalculator/black-nitride-melonite-and-qpq

ive done close to 16 guns/barrels now for me and my and friends... most are lapped match guns, schillen, kreiger, others... did 3 260's, and my 243wssm

this is the last one i did last week...





this was the 1st test target it did for load development...


Click to expand...

All of the guns have been nitrited? What other calibers have you done besides the 260, I have 3500 rounds on my 260 and it still shoots .5moa. What kind of round count and do you have on what calibers, remember I'm looking for real world results on a throat burner. And on your 260, my pet load is 43.5 of H4350 with a smk142. I have a new 6mm barrel ready to spin up and I might have it done.
 
#26
ive done 223, 6.5 grendel, 260, 243, 243wssm and some pistols... most have been done in the last 2 years, my 260 from last year had 1600 down in 1 summer all of my guns have been just as accurate when i got them back. my only burner is the wssm, but i havent shot it that much.

as for real world results on erosion, i would read these..

Bore Scope Evaluation at 1000 Rounds, at Superior Barrels

Barrel #22 Testing and Inspection at Superior Barrels

SBs’ barrels and completed uppers are not designed or intended for full automatic (machine gun) or similar rates of fire
 
#27
I've read those before, I'm still not sure these are the real world "shooter " results I am looking for. Like most tactical shooters I shoot either in practice or matches probably 2500 to 3000 rounds a year, most of it in 7 or 8 months because of weather, so having to rebarrel a 243 every 6 months, or less is a pain. What load are you running on your 243 and how many rounds through it? And if you told me you had 2000 rounds on that 243wssm and no wear! Thats proof it works!
 
#29
Well, I read all the posts and links to the coater. Still want a shooters testimony from experience it will last longer and accuracy remains. Anybody here have long term notes and round count on this treatment on their barrel? I'm in for a couple of barrels if indeed it shows promise.
 
#31
I have used this product in a 270 winchester Model 70 with factory barrel. Also used it on a .223 VSSF Remington 700. The .270 saw a difference in smaller group size but also easier to clean. If you follow the instructions like Tubb lists them, it will take you all day which is how long it took me. There is a real temptation to shoot through the bullets just to be done but DONT! Take your time and dont let barrel overheat. I think this is a cool product to use on a factory hunting rifle. I WOULD NOT use on premium barrel but that is just me.

on the .223 I only used last 2 cycles of abraisives, would not do again.

BTW: after cycle complete with my 270 Win, I did have to modify loads a bit, seemed like loads suddenly did not have same velocity so I added tad more powder. Its been a while but thats what I remember.
 
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