308 cases sticky below minimum load. Help needed!

[Daveworkslocal]

Hello all,

let me start out by saying that I have been reloading for a couple of years and I have yet to see this problem in my other calibers. I currently load and shoot 6.5 grendel, 300 rogue (300wm wildcat), 45 acp, 30-06, 7.62x39, 223 and my newest en-devour has been into 308. However, I'm having some problems with stuck cases as below minimum load. This was shot with my factory Rem 700 SPS 20". My load is as follows:

CBC once fired brass (uniformed primer pockets, uniformed flash hole, FL resized, IIRC they were right under the max COAL)
Berger 168 VLD Hunting
Rem 9 1/2 primer
45-49.5grns of CFE-223
Seated at 2.842 (one diameter into the case)

I was using the magnum primer because 1) that's all I can get my hands on 2) I was told magnum primers are used for ball powders. The minimum load from Hogdons was 46.5~ grains for the 168 SMK. I subsequently backed it off to 45 grains for the Berger and I figured it would be a good starting place.

The first 5 shots at 45 grains got stuck. When I say stuck I don't mean rubber mallet stuck I mean that bolt lift was easy but the case wouldn't extract without a light (I mean light) tap from a wooden block. After I tapped it free the case slid perfectly from the chamber and ejected normally. The problem neither got worse, nor better when I went to 45.5 grains which has me pretty confused. The primers looked fine and there was no extractor marks on the case.

What do you think could have caused this? I have some FC brass that I was debating on recreating the load to see if it was a brass issue but I wanted to hear the hide's opinion first.

Regards
Dave

 

[Aimsmall55]

When you say once fired ... Do you mean from that particular rife ??

 

[Daveworkslocal]

Yes sir. Shot the week previous.

 

[AZ.noob]

I ran into a similar problem, but with FC brass and TAC powder. That brass (both FC and CBC) is thick walled and low volume capacity; I'm not sure where the CFE falls on the burn rate scale, but I know that TAC is relatively fast. I too had pressure signs at low charge volumes, and with standard primers. I stopped that test obviously, pulled the remainder of the bullets and recycled the components.

I see you're in Mesa... I'm a bit further north of you, but still here in the Valley. I can only theorize that, in our (hotter than most anywhere else) ambient temps, some powders simply won't work in some chambers

 

[Daveworkslocal]

That's along the lines of what I was thinking. The only problem is all I have currently is BLC-2, CFE223, 8208 XBR, and H-1000

 

[High Binder]

You might try trimming your brass father back but usually if your chamber is in spec and you're loading within specs, stuck brass is caused by low quality brass.

 

[FALex]

It is the CBC brass, with a 99.9% guarantee.

Trust me, I had over 300 of those shit cases loaded with 175 SMK's...I thought my rifle was fucked.

CBC is cheap, the alloy composition makes it softer than other brands. It is notorious for seizing bolts.

 

[Daveworkslocal]

So should I back my starting charge off another grain and reload it in some FC brass?

 

[High Binder]

So should I back my starting charge off another grain and reload it in some FC brass?

FC brass is shit too. You really need to find good brass LC/Norma/Lapua/etc. and then start from the very beginning. Sucks, but that's life in the reloading world.

 

[Daveworkslocal]

FC brass is shit too. You really need to find good brass LC/Norma/Lapua/etc. and then start from the very beginning. Sucks, but that's life in the reloading world.

You're telling me! I use RWS for the rouge, Lapua for the 6.5, and Norma for the 06. 308 is the black sheep in the crew with FC and CBC. This is the only caliber that I started reloading bafter everyone lost what little common sense they had left. The stuffs harder to find than hen's teeth.

 

[High Binder]

You're telling me! I use RWS for the rouge, Lapua for the 6.5, and Norma for the 06. 308 is the black sheep in the crew with FC and CBC. This is the only caliber that I started reloading bafter everyone lost what little common sense they had left. The stuffs harder to find than hen's teeth.

'Especially in .308. You might have the most luck finding once fired LC (Lake City) brass. It's great brass with a very thick web. The LC-LR brass is the best but it's going to be harder to find but either way it takes well to FL/neck sizing.

 

[Temp9]

It's worth trying the FC brass, at least until you can get better brass. Not ideal, but it's better than no brass at all.

 

[Daveworkslocal]

I'll keep you all updated on the results! I'll start my testing at 44 instead of 45 and give it another go. So far I am not impressed at all by the FC brass. It has needed ALOT of brass prep to come up to what I'm used to and it seems like it's almost more trouble than it's worth, (it would be if stuff was on the shelves!) but we'll see what happens.

 

[High Binder]

It's worth trying the FC brass, at least until you can get better brass. Not ideal, but it's better than no brass at all.

^^ I disagree, there's no point working up a load with bad brass.

 

[Innovative]

Daveworkslocal .....

It's best to NEVER load below the recommended starting load. It's also important to be remove ALL of the sizing lube from your handloads. These two things can cause the symptom of stuck cases.

 

[Daveworkslocal]

Daveworkslocal .....

It's best to NEVER load below the recommended starting load. It's also important to be remove ALL of the sizing lube from your handloads. These two things can cause the symptom of stuck cases.

I normally don't start below max loads but from what I have read the Berger VLD's have a longer bearing surface than the 168 SMK's and the use of a magnum primer as apposed to a standard primer lead me to down grade the load a grain and start my work up from there. I use rcbs water based lube, then tumble and wash after sizing so I don't think that's what's causing my issue. I appreciate you're input though. I learn something new here every day!

 

[JGorski]

I dont have any issues loading 47grs CFE under 168AMAXs in Lapua brass, yeah, get yourself some good brass.

 

[QuickNDirty]

Interesting we're talking about CBC brass...

The CBC brass with factory loads would stick my bolt on occasion. I have reloaded a hundred or so CBC cases now, and about 1 in 30 will stick a bit. I thought I had problems, too, but I think it's just the brass.

 

[Dolomite]

same here, the CBC brass 7.62x51 military brass would stick the bolt enough that I had to yank the bolt handle.... all the brass was fire formed by my rifle....

since its thick walled brass what does everyone suggest in terms of powder load? 1 or 2 grains lighter than normal using 168 SMK, fed 210 primer and varget?