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Gunsmithing Machining...can it be self-taught?

W

Wannashootit

Gunny Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
    • Sep 3, 2010
    2,122
    458
    FL
    I've got a lifetime of mechanical "skills"...but absolutely no experience with metalworking machinery- lathes or end mills.
    None of the Community Colleges within range have classes (that would have been my first choice).

    I'd really like to learn the skills needed to operate a lathe, with an eye towards doing my own amateur smithing- primarily barrel/receiver work.

    Main question- can this be self-taught, or would it be an exercise in frustration? Books, DVD's... anything suitable?

    If "yes", or "maybe"...

    Then the question of what machinery I'd "learn on". Not knowing anything about them, if a critical (and expensive) part of a lathe can get FUBAR by a novice's learning curve- is it smarter to buy a cheap hobby lathe- like a Grizz 8688 Mini-Lathe, to learn basic operation, parts, and skills- and then move up to a "real" lathe when I have a clue?

    Normally I'm of the "buy once, cry once" mindset, just don't know if that principle would be wise in this application.

    And if the answer to the first question is "NO", I guess I'll drop back and punt...
     
    simple answer yes buy a decent lathe there's no reason why you can't learn on one suitable for gunsmithing. tooling is something you'll spend as much if not more on. try find someone selling a job lot it will save you a fortune. I have no formal training but the sound moderator on my rifle is homemade and I can still count to ten on my fingers.
     
    Find someone in your area who has the skills and equipment to mentor you. I imagine there are quite a few retired machinists living in FL and some might want something positive to do with their home shop equipment. I can't imagine learning from a book, although there might be a general machine shop course available on DVD. The small Chinese-made lathes have some capabilty, but there's nothing like a Bridgeport to do real work.
     
    Theoretically, you could teach your self machining. Practically, the time and effort, and extra expense boggle the mind. I wonder if you could get a part time job at a local machine shop? If you did that you could at least pick up the basic from the old hands.
     
    Wannashootit said:
    I've got a lifetime of mechanical "skills"...but absolutely no experience with metalworking machinery- lathes or end mills.
    None of the Community Colleges within range have classes (that would have been my first choice).

    I'd really like to learn the skills needed to operate a lathe, with an eye towards doing my own amateur smithing- primarily barrel/receiver work.

    Main question- can this be self-taught, or would it be an exercise in frustration? Books, DVD's... anything suitable?

    If "yes", or "maybe"...

    Then the question of what machinery I'd "learn on". Not knowing anything about them, if a critical (and expensive) part of a lathe can get FUBAR by a novice's learning curve- is it smarter to buy a cheap hobby lathe- like a Grizz 8688 Mini-Lathe, to learn basic operation, parts, and skills- and then move up to a "real" lathe when I have a clue?

    Normally I'm of the "buy once, cry once" mindset, just don't know if that principle would be wise in this application.

    And if the answer to the first question is "NO", I guess I'll drop back and punt...
    Click to expand...

    You can self - learn which button to push and which crank to turn to get something moving.

    However, you must learn alot more than that to make good parts - how to select correct datums for machining, properties of various materials, which tools to use for what purpose, understand sequence of machining operations, etc....

    Simple answer - NO. You need to be properly educated, both by theory, which is possible without supervision if you somehow know exactly WHAT to learn, and by practice under the supervision of professionals.
     
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    If I could teach myself, you can. Buy a good machine and get to work. There are plenty of books on basic machine operation. Listen to the most successful people you can find. Don't waste time with them if they're not, there's a reason they're that way.

    And do not do anything half-assed, make it a habit to do it right the first time.
     
    I think there is a lot to be said for learning how to work through problems on your own but self teaching a very technical discipline is a tough road if not dangerous. Get yourself a mentor. (Youtube is changingingthe world though.)
     
    x ring accuracy said:
    In a simple answer ....Yes
    Click to expand...

    absolutely agree.

    kortik said:
    Simple answer - NO. You need to be properly educated, both by theory, which is possible without supervision if you somehow know exactly WHAT to learn, and by practice under the supervision of professionals.
    Click to expand...

    absolutely disagree.

    i have not been properly educated in anything. i can think for myself and know when and where to look for answers to questions i have though. now i'm not saying anyone can self teach themselves anything. some people are problem solvers and some aren't.


    my biggest piece of advice is this, never do anything simply because someone says this is how it's done. know why you are doing it that way.
     
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    Ideally we would all be mentored by grizzled old machinists who worked on the Apollo project before turning to gunsmithing.

    Realistically, you can rent the AGI Machinist series by Darrell Holland from Smartflix, and be threading and chambering barrels within a week or two. This worked for my hobby level efforts. I don't have to worry about making a living or cranking out parts for a deadline.
     
    I inherited an Atlas lathe and Bench Made mill a few years ago. Since then maybe $600 in tooling + reamers. I am still in the very novice dept. I learn by trial and error and have broke/made dull more than a few tools. After I spent 3 hours setting up, I go to a machinist's house and he shows me how to set it in 30 minutes. Proper instruction can be a beutiful thing!!
     
    I like to think of it as "the cost of a higher education". I don't know anything about machining, but I'm a self taught 1911 mechanic.
     
    I had a couple college courses when I was majoring in vocational education. Got a very small amount of training on the lathe. Ever since those classes I have been intrigued with metal working. After law school I made a little money, and I mean a very little and bought myself a cheap lathe/mill combo. Some of those things will hold you back more than most realize. They are so limited it is frustrating for a beginner. A more experienced person can make some use of them. I have been into guns shooting and reloading for longrange for years. About eight or so years ago I had a chance meeting with an old gunsmith. He is a great guy and I started hanging out and having him build rifles for me. I started going down and hanging out in his shop just to watch the machine work.
    He decided to teach me to build rifles. It was fun, I had time on my hands so I stuck with it. I got myself a decent lath and a decent mill and have not looked back. I love building guns. I have done four chambers in the last couple weeks, and just walked in from the shop a few minutes ago.
    My advice would be to go to find a couple books, get a decent lathe and tooling and start making chips, Try and find a mentor. Go to some benchrest matches. Start asking around for BR gunsmiths and try to learn some stuff from them. I think that there are more benchrest shooters that roll their own than in any other shooting sport and for the most part they are eager to help shooters out no matter their discipline. Some of them have some bark on them, but most are really good people once you get to know them. Because there are so many old BR shooters who are retiring from the sport you may also run into some deals on tooling.
     
    eddybo said:
    Go to some benchrest matches. Start asking around for BR gunsmiths and try to learn some stuff from them. I think that there are more benchrest shooters that roll their own than in any other shooting sport and for the most part they are eager to help shooters out no matter their discipline. Some of them have some bark on them, but most are really good people once you get to know them. Because there are so many old BR shooters who are retiring from the sport you may also run into some deals on tooling.
    Click to expand...

    Good advice here. Most of the BR guys will help you any way they can, and those guys are doing some neat stuff. If you fall in with the good guys, you'll learn plenty, and haev fun doing it.
     
    These will not teach you anything about gun work. However, they will teach you everything you need to know to get off the ground safely, and correctly They won't make you a machinist, only time in the saddle does that. If you want to save time and money, get in line to rent these videos. Best of luck.

    SmartFlix, the Web's Biggest How-To DVD Rental Store

    SmartFlix, the Web's Biggest How-To DVD Rental Store

    Keep in mind that these are older videos, but not much has changed in machine work unless you are talking about CNC machinery. Darrell Holland is a good instructor who sometimes rubs other the wrong way beacuse they concentrate on his form of expression instead of the contents of his message. If you know very little about these two machines, these two courses are for you. They are long, so if you rent them, set aside some time to veiw them.
     
    These will not teach you anything about gun work. However, they will teach you everything you need to know to get off the ground safely, and correctly They won't make you a machinist, only time in the saddle does that. If you want to save time and money, get in line to rent these videos. Best of luck.

    SmartFlix, the Web's Biggest How-To DVD Rental Store

    SmartFlix, the Web's Biggest How-To DVD Rental Store

    Keep in mind that these are older videos, but not much has changed in machine work unless you are talking about CNC machinery. Darrell Holland is a good instructor who sometimes rubs other the wrong way beacuse they concentrate on his form of expression instead of the contents of his message. If you know very little about these two machines, these two courses are for you. They are long, so if you rent them, set aside some time to veiw them.
     
    Not to get too philosophical or anything, but nearly every successful learning experience in life eventually becomes an exercise in self-education, because if you're doing anything beyond simple repetition of a task, you'll eventually encounter a situation for which education did not completely prepare you.

    Having gotten that out of the way, it's absolutely possible to become self-taught in machining. The biggest issue is that you will need to learn from mistakes. Learning from the mistakes of others is typically easier than learning from your own mistakes, but the latter tend to be more effective learning experiences. I'd worry most about the sort of mistakes that potentially lead to injury. Broken tooling or screwed-up projects can be replaced, but lathes have the ability to permanently remove limbs (or worse). Effective safety instruction will be the most difficult part of this journey.
     
    I'm glad you guys are all so optimistic, although as E.Bryant mentioned, playing with metal cutting equipment can get bloody and even deadly with lack of attention.

    I do believe it is bad idea to learn machining by self eduction, just because using mistakes as a learning tool is going to cost a LOT of time and money. Looks to me like not a cost effective way to get there. Is OP has luxury of spending enough hours on the lathe, say, roughly equal to 3-4 years of a practrical machinist working an average of 8 hours a day, to become sufficiently proficient? And what about time required to read books, talk to people and search internet looking for the answers?

    Drilling holes and turning/facing round, say, bars from 6061 or 12L14 is not a big deal, but it seems like OP wants more than that. If OP has family to take care off, I do not see serious self education in machining at home as a feasible option.
     
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    If machining is in the scope of your natural skill set then I see no reason you can't teach yourself to do this. It's pretty hard to deny someone that wants to learn. Safety should be taken seriously, got pics/stories to prove it.
     
    Back in the late 70's I was fortunate enough to get a job with a company that had a machinist apprenticeship program. 4 year program designed to teach
    lathe, mill, drill press, punch press, edm, and cnc. After the program I became a lead in the lathe section and spent a good deal of my time training the new
    people entering the program. Teaching yourself to run a lathe, mill, or cnc is not terribly difficult to do if you have any desire and a bit of mechanical aptitude.
    Having someone locally that can show you some basic methods of doing things will shorten the process a bit. It isn't rocket science, but there are alot of little
    things that will take longer to figure out on your own.
    Best of luck to you.
    RonA
     
    kortik said:
    Drilling holes and turning/facing round, say, bars from 6061 or 12L14 is not a big deal, but it seems like OP wants more than that. If OP has family to take care off, I do not see serious self education in machining at home as a feasible option.
    Click to expand...

    From the standpoint of machine operation, most gunsmithing isn't terribly complex. Threading and chambering a barrel is basically a matter of setup, turning, facing, threading, and boring. Inletting a stock or cutting a pistol slide for sights is pretty basic work on a manual mill. This is not the sort of work that requires thousands of hours of classroom time and practice, at least not for someone with mechanical aptitude and problem-solving ability. I know this because I've been down this path. Now, my work isn't pretty, and it's certainly not executed quickly enough for me to make a living doing it, and that's just some of what separates me from a pro.

    If this was simply a matter of cost-effectiveness, then I'd ship all of my projects off to one of the many fine 'smiths on this forum. I've spent over $10k on a bunch of used equipment and tooling, and spent untold hours (worth roughly $125 each at the going rate for consulting work) learning how to run it. There have been some scrapped parts, too, but ruining a barrel or stock is almost trivial at this point when examined in the grand scheme of things. But that's all beside the point; the reason for doing this has nothing to do with saving money and everything to do with the satisfaction of learning something new and then applying it in a practical manner.

    I'd much rather spend my time and money making chips - even if they are really expensive chips - than sitting in front of a TV or down at the local bar.
     
    yup.............. south bend used to print a book............"how to run a lathe"............ VERY USEFUL INFO.............. lathe operations have`nt changed much in a couple hundred years..........
     
    E. Bryant said:
    From the standpoint of machine operation, most gunsmithing isn't terribly complex. Threading and chambering a barrel is basically a matter of setup, turning, facing, threading, and boring. Inletting a stock or cutting a pistol slide for sights is pretty basic work on a manual mill. This is not the sort of work that requires thousands of hours of classroom time and practice, at least not for someone with mechanical aptitude and problem-solving ability. I know this because I've been down this path. Now, my work isn't pretty, and it's certainly not executed quickly enough for me to make a living doing it, and that's just some of what separates me from a pro.

    If this was simply a matter of cost-effectiveness, then I'd ship all of my projects off to one of the many fine 'smiths on this forum. I've spent over $10k on a bunch of used equipment and tooling, and spent untold hours (worth roughly $125 each at the going rate for consulting work) learning how to run it. There have been some scrapped parts, too, but ruining a barrel or stock is almost trivial at this point when examined in the grand scheme of things. But that's all beside the point; the reason for doing this has nothing to do with saving money and everything to do with the satisfaction of learning something new and then applying it in a practical manner.

    I'd much rather spend my time and money making chips - even if they are really expensive chips - than sitting in front of a TV or down at the local bar.
    Click to expand...

    You forgot to add that you're a mechanical engineer, and I guess, pretty good one. Knowning how stuff works and which end to cut first usually helps a lot. You probably did spend many hours in the classroom learning related disciplines before you got to machining. Same with me.

    OP certainly has right to learn whatever he wants, but it would be very time consuming and expensive, unless OP got some serious money and lots of time. And tools cost is often higher than the machine itself - I got both lathe and a mill, which are probably worth no more than $9,000, but to use them for my projects, I also got between $15,000 and $20,000 worth of tools and fixtures.

    Not really trying to discourage OP from learning something new, just giving him some food for thought regarding his particular question.
     
    With no disrespect to anyone here, the OP wants to build, and work on guns, I think. He never said anything about building a space shuttle. There are two guys on this board so far that have gone out and bought a lathe and small mill that I personally know of. Both have watched a few vidoes, read a little here on the Hide, had a lot of "I can do this attitude", and have built some awesome rifles on their first go round. The OP has stated that he has mechanical experience, so he must understand the dangers involved. OP, if you have any doubts about what can happen if you have an accident with a lathe, just google lathe accidents. You have to have your head screwed on tight if your going to run any rotating machinery, but it's not the rocket sience some make it out to be. As for going to long extensive schools to learn how to perform basic functions on a lathe or mill, that's BS. Sorry for those that don't agree. Robert G here on the Hide will bring you into his shop for a fee, and you will under his supervision build your own first custom rifle. You know any brain surgeons, or rocket scienist that would do the same.

    Point is, don't be discouraged if you really want to do this. Just do your homework, think about why you really want to do this, and make a decission based on your educated reserch, and personal desires. Again, best of luck.
     
    Assuming someone is mechanically inclined, self learning how to cut metal is a fine way to go.

    It is important, however, you have someone experienced you can ask questions as they arise...and you'll have plenty. Trouble is, you have NO IDEA what questions to ask until you try it yourself and experience trouble.

    Assuming someone is not an idiot, the biggest issues will be tool breakage, rapid tool wear/dulling, poor surface finish, and inability to achieve desired dimensions.... hardly fire and brimstone.

    Carbide inserts aren't that expensive and they're not that delicate. Basic HSS tooling for lathe work is cheap and can be ground and reground over and over and over.

    Practical machinist.com is a great resource for machine tool questions and advice.

    Lastly, don't buy cheap and crappy machine tools to start with. Get a solid old machine in good working order.
     
    Not that I'm a master machinist, but what little skill I have, I got on a mini lathe. They're fun, cheap, and you can actually make some nice, small stuff on them. Emphasis on small. I'm in favor of starting with them because it's easy - just throw it on your bench and start making chips. It's not powerful enough to do much, but it's also pretty hard to get yourself into too much trouble. Along the way, you'll learn about what you need/want when you upgrade. And when you do, you'll be able to unload a mini lathe pretty easily. But yes, you can teach yourself. It's not that hard. You must approach it like the dangerous activity that it is, but there is no rocket surgery involved.
     
    there are plenty of text books on the subject, they have all the information that you need. Turn rates, feed rates, threading, etc. The price in spare material, bits, etc will kill you though.
     
    I did not read everything so I apologize if this has been covered, I agree that with the proper aptitude one can learn the machining skills. Please note that metal machine tools are very very dangerous. It is paramount that you know what to do to not hurt yourself before you ever make a chip. Broken tools are one thing, broken flesh and bones is another. Believe me it is not the same as woodworking. When I started out on my own I was fortunate to get advice from seasoned veteran machinists and every one of them stressed the safety what to do and not do before anything else. Best of Luck in your Endeavor.
     
    I bought a Grayson 3.5" by 18" lathe missing the compound slide I made all sorts of small parts bolt knobs and my first sound moderator, since then I added a compound slide. I then got a Myford M type with this I've made more bits and pieces threaded my 1022 barrel started a new moderator to name some of what I've done. there is a wealth of info to read youtube to watch if you filter out the garbage. keep your fingers out the moving parts and ALWAYS TAKE THE CHUCK KEY OUT.
     
    First post here, long time reader, and too busy with too many other forums to post much, but had to respond to this one.

    I have met 14 year old students that were better at some things than the 40 year experienced man teaching him. I have also met those with degress in said subject I wouldn't allow near my firewood with a plastix axe.

    Two simple words... Common Sense, the problem is that it isn't so common.

    If you are math and mechanically inclined, and have enough Common Sense, the simple answer is yes.
     
    Take one of the NRA Summer Gunsmith classes (Google it). I've been in class with a couple of guys that have flown across the country for the class. Worth it.
     
    kortik said:
    You forgot to add that you're a mechanical engineer, and I guess, pretty good one.
    Click to expand...

    The dirty little secret is that my formal education (and most, but not all, of my practical experience) is actually in electrical engineering. But I was fortunate enough to have some brief mentoring in machine tool operation during one of my co-op assignments. It wasn't anything too detailed - more along the lines of "here's what these levers do, and don't hurt yourself" - but it got me comfortable enough running the machines to where I could then learn what had to be done in order to achieve the desired results.

    If I'd had resources such as your excellent videos when first starting out, the learning curve could have been much steeper. There is so much good information out there nowadays, and it's always great to see someone who wants to take advantage of it for the purpose of creating something.

    Just to drive the point home - safety, safety, safety. I had the unfortunate experience of making a mistake once with a table saw; it was one of those situations where I had enough time on the equipment to become just a bit too comfortable and relaxed. Due to a really good surgeon, I can still count to ten. Had that sort of accident happened with a lathe, the outcome would have been much worse. This stuff ain't to be taken lightly, but then again, it's not like anything related to firearms can be treated as a trivial matter.
     
    I say both yes and no depending on how much money you have to spend, patience you have, and probably most importantly, how much desire you have to be a machinist and/or do your own gunsmithing. It's not for everyone! Here's where I failed and from a beginners perspective.

    Background:

    I'm not overly mechanically inclined but have good common sense. I'm not educated at all in anything machinery related but wanted to get started learning about machining and hoped to do some gunsmithing on my own stuff later on.

    3 years ago, when I was wanting to get into doing my own machining, I ran across a cheap Grizzly mil, more of a small homeowner type mill, and a cheap lathe, a old Montgomery Ward with small spindle bore. Both are 110 volt, so easy to plug in and get started. My original intention was to learn on these and to sell them at some point and upgrade to better machinery.

    The first thing I discovered is they needed to be setup correctly and leveled.

    My mill wasn't too hard to setup but because it was small and light weight for a mill it produced a poor finish (oscillation) and was not accurate to .001 with the dials. I ended up spending more than twice what I spent on the mill in tooling which was only cheap chinese tooling and only the basic things, maybe $1300 invested so far on everything. I got discouraged with trying to learn on my own and ruining things or trying 2-3 times to get the project correct, LOL. It wasn't long before I came to realize that if I was to go at doing this "machining thing" right I was going to have to spend a lot $$$$ on good equipment (larger mill-lathe) and quality tooling, not only that but I would need a mentor, which was going to be another hurdle. I stopped there and decided not to pursue machining as a hobby any further. There is some good news though! I have used that cheap mill to do many things that would have been impossible with a dremel tool, LOL- smile. Heck, just the other day I modified two weaver rail adapters to picatinny rail specs so I could get a scope mounted, yay for me! Sometimes it's nice to have a mill even if it's not a good one!

    The lathe was in great need of help, especially the setup. I couldn't get it to run perfectly true. A professional would need to get involved here and and a good stand would need to be made or bought. I only use it for turning and fitting small or I should say short parts. I have to use a file, the calipers, and lots of time to fit stuff. Same holds true as above with the mill... I'd need to buy a much better lathe and tooling, have it set up correctly and have a mentor to teach me. That being said I've used my cheapy lathe to make all kinds of silly stuff I've needed right then.

    Not being a person with a abundance of money and patience I decided I'd let the professionals do any technical smithing and/or machining for me.

    3 years ago, in the same timeframe, a friend was wanting to do the same thing as I and start doing his own machining as well as gunsmithing. He spent much more money than I did and got some industrial grade machinery. The mill he got was a old and a massive 4000 lb beast, can't remember the make and model and the lathe was a Monarch EEE in need of some TLC and new motor. Obviously said friend has some money to play with and I think more patience or desire than most people have too. These machines are awesome, minimal oscillation - thus a very smooth finish and capable of incredible precision. Also this friend loves doing stuff in his shop and likes experimenting with endless projects.

    The question is, do "you" really want to do this, have the $10,000 or more to spend for a decent mill, lathe and tooling, and desire + time to make it worth your while???
     
    Thanks for all the comments. Haven't had an opportunity to get back to this thread- but did want to thank all of you for your input.
    Kinda like I asked about barrel break in...no consensus...but, that doesn't surprise me, because there isn't a "right" answer to my question I suppose.

    The obvious downside to "self-taught" is the exponential increase in the time, and frustration, to gain experience- especially at the start. My guess is that once the fundamentals are down-pat, the rest becomes more self-evident.

    I'm leaning towards Damoncali's comments, a mini-lathe is a way to learn the basics (albeit with perhaps a trade-off in precision) of theory and operation, without a huge outlay in expense and time. I can always sell it later if I'm successful enough at learning to justify a move-up (Grizz 4003G seems to be a decent enough machine for what I'd like to do, but that's another discussion).

    Mentoring is a great idea, as would part time- if I can find a shop nearby where I can do something besides turning brake drums...

    I actually had been working on "volunteering" with a gunsmith at my LGS until the BATF shut him down a few months ago for trading pot for guns...

    That, too, is another story!
     
    If you have a little drive as a person then yes. When I got my first lathe years ago I wired it all up and then didnt know how to turn the damn thing on. When I figured it out I laughed and thought "this will be a long road". I had already read a lot and bought some books on gunsmithing so I had a pretty good idea of how to go about doing things. When I finally got all the tooling and such I started practicing threading, turning at different speeds and such. I finally put together my first rifle on a Howa that I blueprinted and turned down a shilen barrel blank (I will never contour a barrel blank again, very time consuming. Everyone must do it once though). Now today I can put all my rifles together start to finish in my shop. I decided I must get setup to spray cerakote so I dont have to send my stuff out, so I have a small paint booth setup that I can spray in. After spraying cerakote for about 6-8 months I decided I would go get certified at NIC.

    The point Im getting at is, can it be self taught? Damn right it can. With a little time, money & self drive you can do anything. Here is a video of a 7 Remington Mag I did over the winter. I was working on some loads and wanted to see what they would do at 1k.
    I will be putting together a .260 in about 3 weeks. I will try to do a write up and pictures along the way.

    Shooting Custom 7mm Mag at 1000 Yards - YouTube

    Kc
     
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    300sniper said:
    my biggest piece of advice is this, never do anything simply because someone says this is how it's done. know why you are doing it that way.
    Click to expand...
    AMEN 300. It's ALWAYS good to look at what's been done. But use that thing on your shoulders, (your brain) and study the project.....hell you may come up with the new better mouse trap. Then own an island in the Carribean and scoff at us low lifes. LOL
     
    ugsly said:
    If you have a little drive as a person then yes. When I got my first lathe years ago I wired it all up and then didnt know how to turn the damn thing on. When I figured it out I laughed and thought "this will be a long road".
    Click to expand...

    AMEN to that :)
     
    YES!! My buddy builds custom parts for the offroad racing industry and for local electrical contractors. He is 100% self taught. I have gone in after hours when no one was there and taught myself to use the end mill and lathe. I couldn't actually fit a barrel or true an action but with a little practice and insight its highly possible.
     
    first , i am not against formal schooling and have been to many from military to work related and personal. what ive come to realize is i can generally self teach myself anything ive ever been formaly taught and tons of shit i havent. if you are a thinker and problem solver by nature there is little you cannot do if you want to do it and do it well!

    ever wonder who was the first machinist that taught the first machinist? or who was the first "sniper" that taught the first snipers the doctor who taught the first doctors? suppose he had a school certificate or do you think he was just a problem solver and thinker in his craft? i often laugh at the term "professional" because i've seen lots of shit fucked up by "professionals" and some of the most amazing shit ive ever seen built by lowely amatuers in their garage.

    op...if you want to self tech yourself to machine or smith. get the hell on with it.
     
    Depends on the individual

    True story: My former father-in-law dropped out of HS in the depression to work to support the family. He was very bright and had odd jobs until about WWII when a job in Cleveland was advertised for a tool and die maker and lathe operator..He interviewed and flim flammed them. He then went to the public library and for two weeks studied trig. and found a book on how to operate a lathe..He showed up and began work. Fortunately ( and as mentioned by others above as something for which to look) was surrounded by master tool and die makers who gave him tips. He did very well and worked many years at that skilled trade.

    So it depends...Motivation, Intelligence, Hard work , and some help
     
    I've never been trained or took any classes on machining. I bought a 3-in-1 machine from Knuth for $750. I've probably spent about $500 in tooling most of it second hand. I bought the machine a year ago. I'm just now getting good enough to do precision press fit and getting to .001 accuracy. I read all I can and play on the machine. I buy scrap metal rods and turn the hell out of them. I've fixed all kinds of things, with no longer made or parts, impossible to find. Lately I've been building fire pistons for my son.

    The 3 in 1 is limited, sure. but serves a purpose. The small machining it can do does a beautiful job and the lathe is great (took set up and tightening to get it). One day maybe a bigger dedicated lathe and a bridgeport. But get any machine to learn and play that I can move by myself (350lbs). I'm making firing pins for a friend (you can do that on a mini lathe). It's 1144 turned on the lathe and heat treated with a torch. Still trying to figure out threading but some of it's the limitation of my set up. I want to make rear tool post and a steady.

    I've broken many tools, carbides, HHS... That's how you learn. Pro's break tools too... It's fun to learn and there's no better way than time on the machine. Keep reading and learning.

    ~Charlie
     
    Grab a copy of machinery's handbook. Every question ever can be answered there. Fixturing is the place that experience pays......although, guys have been spinning barrels and actions for a long time and the tbas just recently made its "ah ha!" appearance.

    Learn how to sneak up on a cut, what you can do to keep the machine as rigid as possible (avoid cantilevers) and how to touch up a bit.....the rest will come. Don't save money on measuring devices....it will piss you off some day.
     
    hero's machine said:
    Grab a copy of machinery's handbook. Every question ever can be answered there. Fixturing is the place that experience pays......although, guys have been spinning barrels and actions for a long time and the tbas just recently made its "ah ha!" appearance.

    Learn how to sneak up on a cut, what you can do to keep the machine as rigid as possible (avoid cantilevers) and how to touch up a bit.....the rest will come. Don't save money on measuring devices....it will piss you off some day.
    Click to expand...
    Words to live by
     
    I'm currently working as a CNC machinist. Nobody ever taught me any of this stuff, but I know what I'm doing just as well as the two guys at the shop who went to school for it. Most of our programming is done freehand on the shop floor, and I'm usually the one that gets the jobs that need tricky spirals or ramp-ins. The boss lets me do some of my own projects off the clock, I'm currently working on making an AR-15 upper receiver out of a piece of titanium round bar, because I wanted an excuse to try machining titanium.

    Yes, you can teach yourself.

    I'd say get the biggest, heaviest, sturdiest lathe you can fit on your property. I don't think I could have put enough time in to become proficient on a mini while keeping my sanity. You're really not likely to destroy a big lathe if you take reasonable care of it, it will teach you the fundamentals oh so much better than a mini or a floppy 3-in-1, and you can find decent used machines for alarmingly little money if you look hard enough.
     
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