shooting for groups...

[AGENT-X]

A little back story, I am on the Special Response Team for my agency and my firearms experience is CQB consisting of pistol and AR platform, but all CQB. recently a few positions opened in the Marksman "sniper" unit. I was chosen for one of the positions. I've been training for about two months now and have a class coming up this summer. While training I've shot varying target sizes at various ranges from 100 to 1000 yards and while obviously having a lot to learn its been fairly straight forward and easy to pick up. I've done tracking tests and the like.

Well today I decided I was going to shoot for groups. I was shooting 155gr AMAX (.308) out of a 20" barrel at 100 yards (prone). I was consistently putting 4 out of 5 shots in less than an inch sized group, but always with one "flier." I noticed it was typically my second shot. I waited 20-40 seconds between shots and 5-20 minutes between groups. I even tried shooting a few groups back to back to back. I know it was probably me rushing or not paying attention to my fundamentals. My worst group was 1.5" which may not be horrible, but it was annoying. Any insight is appreciated.

 

[SLVGW360]

Sounds like the Refrigerator Effect. You are likely doing something subconsciously that is changing your fundamentals. How many repetitions with the precision rifle do you have under your belt at this point? Executing the fundamentals needs to be automatic allowing you to mentally focus only on the sight picture at the time of the trigger break. Are your flier consistent up, down or diagonal?

Others on here know far more than I, but will likely mention similar things.

RB

 

[AGENT-X]

I have 240 rounds through it. Flier is consistently to the left.

 

[SLVGW360]

Is it typically the first, last or middle round?

Before trying any suggestions you get here see if you can self diagnose by dry firing a 5 shot string or by shooting your 5 shots with a dry fire in between each live round.

I have that same shift. When it happens to me it is either because my shoulders have tensed up (usually my left one) or I have botched the trigger press. I have to really concentrate on relaxed shoulders while setting up NPA and then dry firing several to remove any slap that might be happening or not getting on the trigger smoothly. See if that helps.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

It does not matter what round is out of the grouping. Your bad shot could be an indicator of poor trigger control, or a multitude of other problems, including what the last contributor alluded to. You may not be able to identify the source of error, but this does mean you cannot progress. Just concentrate on what you need to accomplish by focusing on the principles, and making your position consistent. A review of the principles of marksmanship and the elements and factors of a steady position will help you remember what's important to good shooting. To get up to speed on this matter quickly, find a highly qualified coach who can observe you. That, along with call/strike evaluation, and grouping assessment will get you a handle on it all.

 

[AGENT-X]

I do notice it is typically my second shot, but not 100% of the time. I'll try the shot with a dry fire in between and see what I get. Sterling, I do notice when I run back through the "fundamentals" in my head, I settle back in and am right back on target for the remainder of the shot group.

 

[gstaylorg]

Although this may not be your issue, one thing to consider if you're really positive about the 2nd shot being the "flier" is your POA. Is the first hole in the target interfering with your aimpoint? It's very easy to see that first hole and subconsciously alter your POA because of it. If so, try purposely setting your POI off to one side of your aiming point so that your bullet holes don't obliterate or interfere with your aiming point.

Alternatively, when I don't keep a 100 yd group somewhere close to 0.5 MOA (usually because of a flier as you described), more often than not it is a parallax issue caused by improper form (ie. my melon head isn't correctly centered behind the scope). This type of parallax error is amplified at close range like 100 yd. You might also try shooting some groups at longer ranges (200, 300 yd, etc.) and see if you still have the same issue.

 

[damoncali]

It is entirely possible that the "flyer" is in fact just the worst shot and not out of the ordinary. It could be that that is just the level of accuracy you can expect from that rifle/ammo combo. "4 inside an inch with a flyer that opens it up to an inch and a half" is another way of saying "5 inside an inch and a half".

 

[WB300]

Agent X,

I had a same problem years ago when I was new on the team. Advice from this site helped my correct it. I would get behind the rifle relaxed and fire the first shot. Bullseye. Second shot would wander. Turns out after the first shot, I was inadvertently tensing muscles in anticipation of recoil without realizing it. After the flier, I would get mad and make the extra conscious effort to run through the fundamentals and relax. the rest would fall into line. Getting into the habit of going through the mental mantra before every shot helped. The fliers started happening less often. Hope this helps. Something to think about.

Bill

 

[Rthur]

Try putting a snap cap in with your loaded ammo and see what your trigger pull is like. Have someone else load it for you in a random location of the group shots.

R

 

[R6Hybridd]

Try putting a snap cap in with your loaded ammo and see what your trigger pull is like. Have someone else load it for you in a random location of the group shots.

R

That is a great idea that I have heard before and I really want to try it... now if I could just find someone to go shooting with me.

 

[damoncali]

Just load a dummy round just like all your others - no powder or primer. Then you can load them yourself and be none the wiser.

 

[M40_A1]

Ditto. But leave the spent primer in place. It's a whole lot easier on the firing pin than an empty hole.

 

[jipper74]

Try dialing you power down to 10x. Don't spot your shot or have spotter to record without telling you POI. You could be inadvertently 'chasing' the first hole to make teeny-tiny groups. Five independent shots all with the same POA. Focus your vision on the reticle and not on the target.

 

[AGENT-X]

Jipper, I was thinking of trying something similar to this in shooting 5 separate, but Identicle targets with one shot each and overlaying them to see what I get. Figured this may give me some insight to see if I'm chasing holes.

 

[lawman29]

Although a little time consuming the muzzleloaders during their monthly turkey shoot here in Cody will put a target up (this one is not removed til the end). They'll then put a target over the base target, shoot one shot, pull it, put up another, etc for 10 relays. You base target will give you your group.